[DaveR]

The title says it all. I'm looking for a long-term base of operations. Somewhere I can keep myself entertained for 8-9 months of the year. The rest is for travel.

Places I'm considering:

- Estonia (Tallinn)

- Lithuania?

- Poland (maybe Lublin or Gdansk) - Roosh, what do you think? Does anyone here have long-term experience with both Poland and St. Petersburg? How do the Polish babes compare to Russians in terms of classiness and sophistication?

- Slovakia? Anyone tried it?

Any other suggestions?


Places I wouldn't consider:

Latvia: as has been noted by a few of the regulars here, Roosh included, there's a lot of hate buried inside every Latvian. The cafe and restaurant scene in Riga gets pretty boring after a month.

Russia/Ukraine - I've spent close to a decade in the FSU. The longer I live here, the more I see how much of a detriment it is to my health. Food and water quality is practically third-world standard, as is the air in Moscow and St.Petersburg. Visas and residency are a pain in the ass and often end up screwing my travel plans. Public transport sucks, even in Moscow, compared to living in the center of an old European city where you can walk everywhere. Going by car is slow everywhere in Russia, even if you have a driver. I'm only in my early 30s, but I want to keep playing the game long-term and to do that I need to maintain my health. The bottom line is that quality of life is much higher in smaller European cities, and they're cheaper too. It's a pity, because to my taste, the babes of St. Petersburg are the best anywhere in the world, and I mean both mentally and physically. After saying that, I would definitely recommend trying the Russian experience for a couple of years.

[rudebwoy]

Budapest

[DaveR]

(10-13-2013 03:03 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Budapest

Appreciate the suggestion, but what, specifically, would attract you to that city?

Maybe I need to qualify... I'm not into scruffy women in jeans. Ultra-feminine ones are more my type (eg. the women of St. Petersburg) and I prefer to spend a few weeks chasing an 8+ than to count notches. The few times I've been to Budapest, all I saw was scruffy whores... Am I missing something?

[MHaes]

Yeah, have you thought about Budapest or Prague?

[DaveR]

(10-13-2013 03:33 PM)MHaes Wrote:  

Yeah, have you thought about Budapest or Prague?

Prague may be an option, but I heard that it turned into a sausage-fest in the late 2000s. Maybe the crisis years have had a positive effect? What about other Czech cities?

[Magyarphile]

(10-13-2013 03:33 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:03 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Budapest

Appreciate the suggestion, but what, specifically, would attract you to that city?

Maybe I need to qualify... I'm not into scruffy women in jeans. Ultra-feminine ones are more my type (eg. the women of St. Petersburg) and I prefer to spend a few weeks chasing an 8+ than to count notches. The few times I've been to Budapest, all I saw was scruffy whores... Am I missing something?

Haha, I think rudebwoy knows Budapest doesn't need to be qualified. I will take a shot at it.

1.) Geographic center of Europe=easy traveling

2.) Cheaper than most third world shit holes, while not being said shit hole.

3.) Really amazing nightlife any night of the week, you just cant get bored here

4.) The Budapest vibe: Yea, every city offers something unique but Budapest gives off a moody, dark yet energetic vibe that I haven't felt anywhere else in the world.

5.) The women are great but I am not at all surprised about the mixed reviews on the forum. The tourist traps are infested with grimy prostitutes.You have to know where to go and that means having a local connection. Hot Hungarian women aren't interested in tourists. You need to have a social circle here where you are introduced. The magyars are a little insular so that takes time.

[DaveR]

(10-13-2013 03:52 PM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

Haha, I think rudebwoy knows Budapest doesn't need to be qualified. I will take a shot at it.

1.) Geographic center of Europe=easy traveling

2.) Cheaper than most third world shit holes, while not being said shit hole.

3.) Really amazing nightlife any night of the week, you just cant get bored here

4.) The Budapest vibe: Yea, every city offers something unique but Budapest gives off a moody, dark yet energetic vibe that I haven't felt anywhere else in the world.

5.) The women are great but I am not at all surprised about the mixed reviews on the forum. The tourist traps are infested with grimy prostitutes.You have to know where to go and that means having a local connection. Hot Hungarian women aren't interested in tourists. You need to have a social circle here where you are introduced. The magyars are a little insular so that takes time.

Thanks for the rundown, but I don't think Budapest would suit me. I'm not actually into nightlife at all if day game works. I wouldn't be so sure that your point 5 is about tourist traps. A few years ago I spent three weeks there and the only attractive girl I saw was in the Russian embassy. Bratislava, on the other hand, was like a minefield full of 8s and 9s. I think it comes down to personal preferences. What one guy considers hot may just be another scruffy college girl to another. To put it another way: I don't own even one pair of jeans.

Location and cost aren't so important for me. As long as I'm within two hours of an airport and there are plenty of sophisticated, sexy women, I'll be happy.

[KorbenDallas]

(10-13-2013 04:42 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:52 PM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

Haha, I think rudebwoy knows Budapest doesn't need to be qualified. I will take a shot at it.

1.) Geographic center of Europe=easy traveling

2.) Cheaper than most third world shit holes, while not being said shit hole.

3.) Really amazing nightlife any night of the week, you just cant get bored here

4.) The Budapest vibe: Yea, every city offers something unique but Budapest gives off a moody, dark yet energetic vibe that I haven't felt anywhere else in the world.

5.) The women are great but I am not at all surprised about the mixed reviews on the forum. The tourist traps are infested with grimy prostitutes.You have to know where to go and that means having a local connection. Hot Hungarian women aren't interested in tourists. You need to have a social circle here where you are introduced. The magyars are a little insular so that takes time.

Thanks for the rundown, but I don't think Budapest would suit me. I'm not actually into nightlife at all if day game works. I wouldn't be so sure that your point 5 is about tourist traps. A few years ago I spent three weeks there and the only attractive girl I saw was in the Russian embassy. Bratislava, on the other hand, was like a minefield full of 8s and 9s. I think it comes down to personal preferences. What one guy considers hot may just be another scruffy college girl to another. To put it another way: I don't own even one pair of jeans.

Location and cost aren't so important for me. As long as I'm within two hours of an airport and there are plenty of sophisticated, sexy women, I'll be happy.

Prague is a sausage fest if your a tourist. When you live here....its very nice. imo I think Prague has great girls, but people have had different experiences. I think Prague is a great base of operations. Central location, no one bothers you, safe city, good food, friendly people.

[Akula]

(10-13-2013 01:17 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

Russia/Ukraine - I've spent close to a decade in the FSU. The longer I live here, the more I see how much of a detriment it is to my health. Food and water quality is practically third-world standard, as is the air in Moscow and St.Petersburg. Visas and residency are a pain in the ass and often end up screwing my travel plans. Public transport sucks, even in Moscow, compared to living in the center of an old European city where you can walk everywhere. Going by car is slow everywhere in Russia, even if you have a driver. I'm only in my early 30s, but I want to keep playing the game long-term and to do that I need to maintain my health. The bottom line is that quality of life is much higher in smaller European cities, and they're cheaper too. It's a pity, because to my taste, the babes of St. Petersburg are the best anywhere in the world, and I mean both mentally and physically. After saying that, I would definitely recommend trying the Russian experience for a couple of years.

Can't argue with this, been in Moscow 4.5 years and the bad air quality + traffic really take it's toll. I guess at least it's not as bad as in China. Am suprised that even St. Petersburg has bad air quality though.

However, I'd say that Moscow at least is reasonably ok in terms of public transport as long as you're around the Garden or 3rd ring. That said it's no picnic, and the metro gets old fast.

What about Lviv in Ukraine or somewhere in Croatia?

[Volk]

You sound more like a London or 2nd tier France kind of person. Closest thing over there would be Vienna.

[DaveR]

(10-14-2013 10:33 AM)Akula Wrote:  

Can't argue with this, been in Moscow 4.5 years and the bad air quality + traffic really take it's toll. I guess at least it's not as bad as in China. Am suprised that even St. Petersburg has bad air quality though.

However, I'd say that Moscow at least is reasonably ok in terms of public transport as long as you're around the Garden or 3rd ring. That said it's no picnic, and the metro gets old fast.

What about Lviv in Ukraine or somewhere in Croatia?

Akula's gets it. I could have called this thread "How to transition out of Russia?" I still love St. Petersburg and if its population were one million instead of five, I'd be happy to live here for another few decades. Part of the allure of Tallinn is that it's very close, so visiting the Rodina for a few days would be entirely practical. Russia is one of the very few places where I find women that I enjoy being in a relationship with. There are many places which have a lot of sexy girls, but their mentality often makes them unattractive for anything more than a "pump and dump" affair.

I would rate St. Petersburg just as problematic as Moscow for transport because its metro isn't as useful and the roads aren't as developed. St.P doesn't have ring roads like Moscow, so all of the traffic is routed through the centre of the city. The Gulf wind does keep the air fresh on the outskirts, but there really isn't much to do out there. All of the best cafes, restaurants and bars are in the central area. Living in the centre allows you to reach all of them within about half an hour, but the air quality is terrible. If you live on the outskirts you'll be looking at a one hour commute to get anywhere.

Other problems include... Medical treatment in Russia is a disaster. The tap water isn't safe for drinking except in Moscow. The quality of Russian vegetables and meat is often very low, and anything imported is subject to a few weeks' delay because of Russian customs. So an Italian apple, for example, has probably been sitting in a crate for a month before it gets to the store. Even if your immune system is strong, these factors and the viral load associated with travelling by metro add stress that your body wouldn't have to deal with in a smaller city.

In comparison, If you live in the old town of a small European city, you can walk everywhere in 10-15 minutes. EU's regulations and monitoring keep the air and water clean and the food safe. Basically, there's no comparison in quality of life - they're at opposite ends of the scale.

The way I see it, there are three options:

1. Somewhere not far from the Russian border - Estonia, Latvia, Belarus, Russian-speaking Ukraine. The attraction with these places is that they have Russians but the quality of life is much better. Culture- and language-wise, there would be no change as I would just rely on Russian and English.
As mentioned earlier, I'm quite a fan of Estonia, but I haven't ever been there long-term.
Belarus is also not bad as its cities are cleaner and better maintained than those in Russian or Ukrainian. Actually, I would say parts of Minsk are more developed than Vilnius. It isn't very cosmopolitan though. The restaurant scene is a bit dull and because of their economic situation, the girls don't have a lot of money to doll themselves up.

2. Other Slavic countries - Czech, Slovakia, Poland, Ukrainian-speaking Ukraine, The Balkans. These cultures are somewhat similar to Russia's, but I don't know them very well apart from Ukraine. I've thought about L'viv a few times because the quality of life there is definitely better than in any Russian or East-Ukrainian city. But the thing is, speaking Russian isn't an asset in Western Ukraine. It would be just as easy to move to any other Slavic country. Another factor is that Ukrainians aren't as cultured or sophisticated as Russians. Based on what Prosal wrote, the Polish aren't either. Despite being an arrogant prick, he is quite classy and what he wrote checks out with my experience.
I've heard a lot of good things about the Czechs and Slovaks, but haven't spent a lot of time in either country myself. Does anyone here have long-term experience in Russia as well as either of those countries? What are they like in comparison?

3. The rest.
Italy, France, and maybe even the UK have been in the back of my mind for a long time, but I always imagined that I would retire to one of those countries as an old man. It's still 20+ years away for me. Being a conservative guy, I also find the conversation much easier in Russia and other conservative countries.
Lastly, something specific to my situation... Western countries are a problem from a tax perspective. Most of the former-communist countries have flat tax systems, but they also have very simple (or a complete lack of) rules for controlled foreign companies. If I spend my working years in the East, I'll probably retire with twice as much money.


So in short, has anyone transitioned out of Russia after a long time and found somewhere else just as enjoyable?

(10-14-2013 11:03 AM)Volk Wrote:  

You sound more like a London or 2nd tier France kind of person. Closest thing over there would be Vienna.

Thanks for the suggestion. See point 3 above.)

[Menace]

DaveR, you're going to be a great addition to the forum. I think a lot of guys will want to mine you for Russia knowledge.

As far as classiness and sophistication, I have only experienced Russian girls in Moscow on a much more limited basis than you have (understatement), but I think you will be hard pressed to find girls that have the same characteristics. I think with any place you basically have a point system: points for quality of life, points for location, weather, and of course women. All of them run through your personal preference interface.

I think it's also important to connect with a place. What about Georgia? I know, a bit of an oddball.

[Courage Reborn]

Haven't been to Moscow, but my impressions of other eastern european cities;

Kiev - City is dirty and doesn't feel super safe. Super hot girls. Everyone speaks Russian. Big and spread out. Nightlife is full of pro's. Daygame on Kreshatik is tricky; all 2 sets. Online game is insanely good. Food is meh.

Wroclaw - Highest number of targets for daygame (during school season). Hot girls. City is safe, and small easy to navigate. Nightlife poppin' almost all 7 nights a week. Online is poor. Good food.

Prague - Tourist hell in city center. Excellent for daygame, but not as many targets as in Wroclaw. Hot girls. Most approachable during the day. Nightlife is indeed a sasagefest hell. Online is near non-existant. Good food.

[mr_lucky]

(10-13-2013 03:37 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:33 PM)MHaes Wrote:  

Yeah, have you thought about Budapest or Prague?

Prague may be an option, but I heard that it turned into a sausage-fest in the late 2000s. Maybe the crisis years have had a positive effect? What about other Czech cities?

dunno about sausagefest, but for sure too many Americans.

[DaveR]

(10-14-2013 04:45 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

Kiev - City is dirty and doesn't feel super safe. Super hot girls. Everyone speaks Russian. Big and spread out. Nightlife is full of pro's. Daygame on Kreshatik is tricky; all 2 sets. Online game is insanely good. Food is meh.

Kiev was the first city I came to in Eastern Europe. It can be intimidating at first because everything is so foreign, but it is actually pretty safe. Here's a mini datasheet, but keep in mind I've been conversational in Russian for a long time and the last time I was in Kiev was two years ago:

Night life ==> Sky Bar. Right in the centre near Arena and Bessarabskij Rinok.

Kreschatik is a waste of time. There are a lot of girls, but they've already been approached by 1000000 other guys and probably want you to take them shopping, not back to your place.

If you want to day game, you can try the parks. Ukrainians like to go for walks. There are two parks near metro Universitet, which is near a large university.

If you're adventurous, go out to metro Obolon' and walk North towards Dream Town (shopping mall). Wait for a sexy girl then ask for directions to the metro. When you get to the metro, "wait for your friend" and then ask the next sexy girl for directions back to Dream Town. It's about a five minute walk, so you'll have just enough time to get her number and move onto the next target. Obolon' is a 'sleeping' (residential) area, so you'll only get normal girls out there, no pros and they'll likely have much less experience with foreigners.

Third option for day-gaming... just be lost in the metro.

Online game works, but keep in mind that photography and Photoshop are national pastimes, so a 9 on the net may turn out to be a 6 in real life. I've also seen it go the other way, so a 6 online might be an 8 in real life. You'll also get a lot of girls who just want to practice speaking English. If you don't speak Russian, it may turn out to be efficient because you won't have to deal with the language issue.

The restaurant in the Radisson (Mille Miglia) is one of the best I've been to anywhere. Otherwise try DaVinci Fish Palace, or there's a French place on Andreevskij Spusk.

[DaveR]

(10-14-2013 04:42 PM)Menace Wrote:  

DaveR, you're going to be a great addition to the forum.

Thanks!

(10-14-2013 04:42 PM)Menace Wrote:  

I think you will be hard pressed to find girls that have the same characteristics.

That is the unfortunate realisation I've been coming to for the past year or so.

(10-14-2013 04:42 PM)Menace Wrote:  

What about Georgia?

I don't know what it's like as a foreigner, but a lot of Georgian guys have to leave just so they can get laid. Their girls like to save themselves for their wedding nights. The part of Russia which borders Georgia isn't Slavic either - it's a completely different culture down there (Islamic fundamentalist).

[rudebwoy]

Budapest is a beautiful city and centrally located in Europe, it is also very inexpensive (housing) compared to Prague which would be my number two. Being close to the Balkans is a plus, with Romania close by and the Baltics only a short plane ride away. Hungarians either hate you or like you, when they like you there hospitality is amazing.
Slovakia (Bratislava) I hear is a ugly city and not much to do there.
Russia sounds amazing but seems like you need a mortgage to do it properly.

[DaveR]

(10-14-2013 07:01 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Budapest is a beautiful city and centrally located in Europe, it is also very inexpensive (housing) compared to Prague which would be my number two. Being close to the Balkans is a plus, with Romania close by and the Baltics only a short plane ride away. Hungarians either hate you or like you, when they like you there hospitality is amazing.
Slovakia (Bratislava) I hear is a ugly city and not much to do there.
Russia sounds amazing but seems like you need a mortgage to do it properly.

Thanks for the rundown.

Location is not a big issue for me. I wouldn't live in a place that was less than ideal just to save two hours on a plane.

As I mentioned earlier, I spent some time there previously and didn't see anything I would want to bang. It's one of those polarising places, just like many South American countries. Some guys consider it paradise; others don't even see what the fuss is about. Bottom line, there isn't anything which attracts me to Hungary. Most Italian guys I've met didn't seem to keen on it either.

Bratislava's architecture is similar in style to small Austrian cities. The buildings outside of the historical centre were mostly built under communism, but there is no reason to go there if you live in the centre.