[BoneDaddy]

Regarding the above discussion of insurance to cover AirBnB style rentals, this is indeed a thing that most people get wrong.

AirBnB touts their "Host Guarantee" which could lead the casual host to believe they are covered for up to $1MM of whatever horrible shit may happen. Nothing could be further from the truth. AirBnB's coverage would pay for $1MM of broken wine glasses, and maybe even if the guest burns your house down, but they won't pay a nickel toward a liability claim from a guest who injures themselves on the hosts' property. This in my opinion is the biggest risk exposure faced by AirBnB hosts.

To that end, I carry, and my city requires, a commercial short-term rental insurance policy for each property with a minimum of $1MM liability coverage in addition to hazard insurance (wind, fire, etc.) All of this in addition to reasonable safety measures including smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, property in good repair and other safety measures that a reasonable person would expect a property owner to provide.

[Cattle Rustler]

(11-02-2016 04:48 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  

(11-02-2016 02:29 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

I forgot to update (increase) my prices as my cash flow problem was solved. I have a 3 day returning guest tomorrow....and an IRT just fucking booked my place for the night. From the gust of it, he seems like a nightmare....first message he's already demanding the place be ready in 30 minutes. The dude just booked it 10 minutes ago, give me a fucking break.

I've done AirBnB (and other booking platforms) on multiple properties for a while now. One thing I have noticed is a strong correlation between the short-notice of the guests booking and the guests' neediness. To prevent that, I've configured my listings to disallow same-day booking, so guests can't book and expect to check in immediately.

Another thing I do is to politely decline any request for discounts, or basically any concession requested by my guests. I have found that guests who ask for discounts or other concessions are the ones who will cause issues.

I provide a premium product as evidenced by double-digits of five-star reviews, therefore I have no need to bend to the whim of any guest. I keep my pricing at the high end of the market for the same reason.

I would rather sit vacant than to host a problem guest.

Adopting this hard line on concession has the further benefit of garnering guest respect. Once guests figure out I don't play that, they often back off their requests and book anyway, thus accepting my frame.

CR, totally agreed that guests like this are potential nightmares. Above are some of the steps I take to avoid this kind of guest.

Great tips man! Is definitely follow them. I've been wondering were you've been.

I have my place in the upper price range for this reason, great to know great minds think alike. I lowered it's price to get some cash going since it was the end of the month. I'd do same day bookings as long as the guest is okay with allowing me 2 hours to clean and get it ready, but Airbnb doesnf have an option to describe that.

Since it's stained concrete flooring, I do not allow children since they might fall and bust their ass head first.

Just had a red flag with this dude and I'm about to call Airbnb and kick him out. Dude lives 20 minutes out in the burbs (sugarland). As he was leaving he mentioned his real reason for booking my place, "having my girlfriend and some friends over". he paid for 1 person. No parties are allowed at my place. This fuckwad said he was "visiting friends" in his intro message.

I was a bit hesistant whether to send him a message and tell him to keep the noise level down but a bunch of folks at a AirBNB forum are pretty sure he's going to throw a party.

"A one night rental from a local? This is not a few, it's a rager. I'd call Airbnb kick him out."
"It's a fest that he does not want to throw at his own place to the point he will pay for a place to host it. Some friends will probably be 20 friends."
"I would message him letting him know that there are no events. He needs to pay for extra friends. tell him he agreed to your house rules"

Y'alls thoughts?

[BoneDaddy]

Thanks CR! Been in lurker mode for a while, will try to get in here more and contribute where I can.

I have the same concerns regarding guests and parties. So far this hasn't been a problem, but its always in the back of my mind. In my listing descriptions and house rules, I stress to my guests that they are in a family-friendly area and this is not a party house. No parties allowed, and only registered guests are allowed on the property, no exceptions.

Of course, this doesn't prevent the guest from throwing a rager, but at least you'll have grounds to kick them out immediately if they don't follow the house rules.

There are a few interesting products that I have recently read about that address this issue. One monitors ambient sound level, and another monitors the number of smartphones in the vicinity. Both connect to house WiFi and send you a notification if your pre-set levels are exceeded.

The goal being to inform the host right away so you can contact the rental platform (AirBnB or others) immediately and eject the guests before neighbors or law enforcement gets involved.

[Pointer]

In Europe some cities started cracking down on AirBnB. Turns out many people were putting their empty apartments on AirBnB driving up the prices of rent. I can see why this happens since everytime I check AirBnB the prices are ridiculous. Service fee, cleaning fee (bitch please), extra fees for checking between certain hours and shitty rooms that cost more than hotels. As a solo traveler I never managed to find a good deal. I was looking for an apartment for myself in Barcelona and prices were in the range of 2500+ EUR per month with conditions like no parties, no extra guests (+30 EUR per night) etc etc. For that kind of money I expect 2 strippers and a bottle of champagne. Some of them didn't even have Wi-Fi, the owner didn't even bother.

[redbeard]

I am in the process of changing cities and have been looking into this hustle. One of the things I realized is that in most areas, two bedroom apartments are priced extremely close to their one bedroom counterparts. People pay premiums to have a one bedroom, and because of that, landlords have to take a loss on two bedrooms to have them fill up.

I initially considered getting a 2 bedroom so I could have a small gym, office or guest room...then I realized I could make money on it by renting it on AirBnB. Here's somethings I've been thinking of.

What do you guys do to set your apartment apart from the competition and guarantee 5 star reviews?

I'm looking at doing trial size toiletries which will cost me $1/guest. Make sure I have the netflix hookup, good wifi, fully equipped kitchen, house supplies out the ass from Costco.

Legally - my initial plan is to find a landlord that will allow me to rent out. I will be transparent about my intention to rent on AirBnB and will outline it explicitly in the lease. "Redbeard is allowed to rent on AirBnB." I'll convince them to do it by playing coy and saying "I'll mostly use it as a guest room, I have people who want to come visit me all the time, but I'll use AirBnB to help out. I've done this with previous landlords and it's been fine."

After that, I need to find a good key security option. This will require the landlord to allow me to modify the house. I could install digital locks like some others posted or install a key lock box on the outside. This Kidde dial combination box has gotten good reviews from security websites.

Finding a landlord that will allow me to rent the room and modify the keys will be tricky. IF I can't find a landlord that will allow this, I'll consider buying. Only if I have to. I don't want to buy, and the liquidity of renting is important to me.

(08-12-2014 01:24 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

Consider outsourcing the cleaning to a maid service.

Most services clean a client's home about twice a month; if you can offer them more business they'll be willing to give you a better price. I pay $60 per cleaning and charge my guests a $20 "cleaning fee" after each stay, so it's only a $40 net cost. I charge between $100-130 per night, so it's definitely worth it, especially if I can book a two- or three-night stay instead of just a single.

How do you guys determine what fees to charge? As far as security deposit, cleaning fee, extra guests, etc. I'm thinking of definitely doing a $20 cleaning fee, no security deposit, free guests, $10/night for an air mattress.

(08-12-2014 01:24 PM)Isaac Jordan Wrote:  

Work hard up front to score a couple good reviews.

When I first started, I had a buddy of mine "book" my place for $10 just so he could leave a glowing review (he never actually stayed). Since then, the more good reviews I've earned, the more rental requests I've received. Make sure you communicate promptly and do your best to accommodate the first couple guests you have (although really you should do this for all of them). Little things, like leaving a welcome note on the counter or fresh breakfast food in the fridge, go a long way towards making a good impression. For guests with longer stays (or those that I know won't have a car), I'll offer to stock my fridge with a couple of their favorite items. I also provide them access to my bar and assorted coffees/teas, although most guests tend to go out enough to where they don't really use that much.

Great tip that I will be employing.

(11-02-2016 04:48 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  

I've done AirBnB (and other booking platforms) on multiple properties for a while now. One thing I have noticed is a strong correlation between the short-notice of the guests booking and the guests' neediness. To prevent that, I've configured my listings to disallow same-day booking, so guests can't book and expect to check in immediately.

Another thing I do is to politely decline any request for discounts, or basically any concession requested by my guests. I have found that guests who ask for discounts or other concessions are the ones who will cause issues.

Good tip, and I will definitely employ strict cancellation policy to weed out people who are not serious.

What are you guys charging for long-term stays? I'm thinking of doing no minimum stay (so people will be open to staying for one night only) but dropping the price for 3-night and 7-night.

The price difference between a one bedroom and two bedroom is only around $100-$150/month. If I can rent the room at $50/night for three nights...the room pays for itself, plus I have a guest room.

[Cattle Rustler]

I'm pretty fucking sure my guest is a pedo. Old white 60-something year old dude with a 20 year old asian who helps the old dude with everything. The asian dude looks almost exactly like the guy. Oz Pedo pic cross posted from he PizzaGate thread. Their outfit? Shorts, shit, and sandals.

[PrettyBoyAJ]

I have to bump this thread as I'm looking for some passive income to supplement my Crypto gains. This thread has been amazing. Any of you guys still doing this?

I'm looking to rent a place in either Downtown Atlanta or Buckhead and then rent it using Airbnb. I'm going to have to furnish it with a couch, bed, and television.

So my question is should I get a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom? Also would getting a highrise be more profitable? Also what is a good way to figure out what the best area or even condo to get?

[PrettyBoyAJ]

Is anyone on the forum currently doing this. Would love to get some input.

[BoneDaddy]

(10-09-2018 12:14 PM)PrettyBoyAJ Wrote:  

Is anyone on the forum currently doing this. Would love to get some input.

Yep, still doing it and in the process of bringing yet another property online. Let me know if you have questions and I'll try to help if I can.

Bone

[HoofHearted]

Is there a limit on the number of properties you can list on airbnb under your name? can you list 5, 6 properties in the same city without airbnb or City Council getting on your case, asking for a professional license like a tour operator's?

[BoneDaddy]

(10-15-2018 11:14 AM)HoofHearted Wrote:  

Is there a limit on the number of properties you can list on airbnb under your name? can you list 5, 6 properties in the same city without airbnb or City Council getting on your case, asking for a professional license like a tour operator's?

First, let's define some terms. I see people increasingly referring to a furnished living space, offered for rental periods of less than 30 days referred to as an "AirBnB". While that is accurate in a sense, keep in mind that AirBnB is just a marketing platform, one of many.

You've touched on an important point. I'd say this is the most important point when considering the operation of short-terms. That point being local regulations.

AirBnB, VRBO, Booking.Com, TripAdvisor don't care - they'd be happy for you to list 100 properties or more. Your primary concern is the regulations put forth by the local municipality where your short-term rental is located. And that's different in every country, province, state, county or city.

Some cities require permits to operate short-term rentals. Others don't seem to care. The explosion in demand for short-term rentals is putting this on the radar screen of more and more municipalities, and many are putting regulations in place to restrict or even prohibit this kind of activity.

Most municipalities levy a fairly onerous tax on short-term rentals, typically the same as hotels. So you'll need to consider the collecting and remitting of lodging taxes. Or do as some do, and attempt to fly under the radar. Be aware that many municipalities are taking advantage of services that scrape the listings on AirBnB and elsewhere and compare to the tax remittances and permits, where applicable. They use this data to drop the hammer on non-compliant operators.

So your first step would be to investigate your local municipality and see what regulations exist, or may be in process. A Google search of your city + "short-term rental" should get you started.

Short-term rentals are very lucrative, but they also come with their own challenges and barriers to entry. Best to go forward with a good understanding of the risks before making any decisions.

[John Michael Kane]

I have a friend who hosts on VRBO who just hosted two guests that robbed the place. VRBO refused to pay out to the host, and had the nerve to reverse the payout in the bank account, because the guests paid with a stolen credit card. Vrbo puts all background check work on the hosts, whereas airbnb does more of the legwork for you up front. I strongly advise against vrbo.

[PrettyBoyAJ]

So I actually looked at some highrises in midtown Atlanta. I was impressed with the view but the only turn off is that they told me I can’t Airbnb the place out if I rent.

Should I just look for another high rise property?

Also for furniture would it be better to buy or lease. Considering the place that I’ll be getting would be rented and not purchased by me.

[BoneDaddy]

(10-15-2018 06:34 PM)PrettyBoyAJ Wrote:  

So I actually looked at some highrises in midtown Atlanta. I was impressed with the view but the only turn off is that they told me I can’t Airbnb the place out if I rent.

Should I just look for another high rise property?

Also for furniture would it be better to buy or lease. Considering the place that I’ll be getting would be rented and not purchased by me.

Any competent landlord would have language in their lease that forbids subleasing, most certainly the operator of a high-rise in a large urban metro. People do it and get away with it for a while, so be sure to recognize there is a possibility that your short-term rental activities could get shut down by your landlord and you'll still be on the hook for the remainder of the lease, as well as whatever you spend on furniture, decoration, electronics and other start-up expenses.

A better approach that some operators are having success with is to approach the owners of smaller garden-style apartments in areas desirable to tourists/travelers and negotiate a master lease which would allow you to lease up vacant units, furnish, decorate, and then rent them out as short-term rentals. You'd still have the concern of regulation by the local municipality.

[PrettyBoyAJ]

My main issue is finding an apartment complex that is going to allow me to sublease. Every apartment complex is basically telling me no. My fear is that I rent out a place and do everything you’ve mentioned Bone and then getting evicted. I need to figure out a way I can still do this however.

The garden idea is a pretty good idea. How would I go about finding the owner of these apartments? Also I was wanting to focus on high end high rises for this.

[Cattle Rustler]

(10-16-2018 10:06 AM)PrettyBoyAJ Wrote:  

My main issue is finding an apartment complex that is going to allow me to sublease. Every apartment complex is basically telling me no. My fear is that I rent out a place and do everything you’ve mentioned Bone and then getting evicted. I need to figure out a way I can still do this however.

The garden idea is a pretty good idea. How would I go about finding the owner of these apartments? Also I was wanting to focus on high end high rises for this.

No competent high rise apartment corporation or landlord is going to allow their unit to be subleased (posted on AirBNB, VRBO, etc). It's simply too much liability for them, especially if the guest does something and the other tenants sue the landlord. It creates a whole pandora's box of problems, the landlord won't know if there's a sex offender on the property because background check are only done on the people on the contract.....and AirBNBing a place will bring in more foot traffic which means you don't have a solid grasp of what's going in the building.

I removed my listing before the superbowl last year because my complex sent an complex-wide email saying anyone caught listing on AirBNB would be evicted immediately and remain on the hook for the contract (and breaking it). They had already the scraping service but wanted to give us a chance to stop doing it. The management could have kicked me out there and then but they were on cool terms with me.

An ex of mine tried doing the same with her home, and her landlord went crazy when he asked her. Too much liability for him, and he owns four-plex units.

The only way you can do this is to own the property. If it's a high rise make sure the HOA (or whatever you call it in a high rise) allows AirBNBing, many places don't even if you're the owner.

[PrettyBoyAJ]

(10-16-2018 01:06 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 10:06 AM)PrettyBoyAJ Wrote:  

My main issue is finding an apartment complex that is going to allow me to sublease. Every apartment complex is basically telling me no. My fear is that I rent out a place and do everything you’ve mentioned Bone and then getting evicted. I need to figure out a way I can still do this however.

The garden idea is a pretty good idea. How would I go about finding the owner of these apartments? Also I was wanting to focus on high end high rises for this.

No competent high rise apartment corporation or landlord is going to allow their unit to be subleased (posted on AirBNB, VRBO, etc). It's simply too much liability for them, especially if the guest does something and the other tenants sue the landlord. It creates a whole pandora's box of problems, the landlord won't know if there's a sex offender on the property because background check are only done on the people on the contract.....and AirBNBing a place will bring in more foot traffic which means you don't have a solid grasp of what's going in the building.

I removed my listing before the superbowl last year because my complex sent an complex-wide email saying anyone caught listing on AirBNB would be evicted immediately and remain on the hook for the contract (and breaking it). They had already the scraping service but wanted to give us a chance to stop doing it. The management could have kicked me out there and then but they were on cool terms with me.

An ex of mine tried doing the same with her home, and her landlord went crazy when he asked her. Too much liability for him, and he owns four-plex units.

The only way you can do this is to own the property. If it's a high rise make sure the HOA (or whatever you call it in a high rise) allows AirBNBing, many places don't even if you're the owner.

Thanks for your response. That sucks very much. So I'm guessing two years it was different and more people were able to rent out apartments and airbnb them out? Because I thought the whole idea behind this thread was leasing to rent the places out. Whats the new strategy here when it comes to not buying? I'm not looking to buy anything.

So Cattle I assume your not Airbnb anymore.

[Cattle Rustler]

(10-16-2018 01:39 PM)PrettyBoyAJ Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 01:06 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(10-16-2018 10:06 AM)PrettyBoyAJ Wrote:  

My main issue is finding an apartment complex that is going to allow me to sublease. Every apartment complex is basically telling me no. My fear is that I rent out a place and do everything you’ve mentioned Bone and then getting evicted. I need to figure out a way I can still do this however.

The garden idea is a pretty good idea. How would I go about finding the owner of these apartments? Also I was wanting to focus on high end high rises for this.

No competent high rise apartment corporation or landlord is going to allow their unit to be subleased (posted on AirBNB, VRBO, etc). It's simply too much liability for them, especially if the guest does something and the other tenants sue the landlord. It creates a whole pandora's box of problems, the landlord won't know if there's a sex offender on the property because background check are only done on the people on the contract.....and AirBNBing a place will bring in more foot traffic which means you don't have a solid grasp of what's going in the building.

I removed my listing before the superbowl last year because my complex sent an complex-wide email saying anyone caught listing on AirBNB would be evicted immediately and remain on the hook for the contract (and breaking it). They had already the scraping service but wanted to give us a chance to stop doing it. The management could have kicked me out there and then but they were on cool terms with me.

An ex of mine tried doing the same with her home, and her landlord went crazy when he asked her. Too much liability for him, and he owns four-plex units.

The only way you can do this is to own the property. If it's a high rise make sure the HOA (or whatever you call it in a high rise) allows AirBNBing, many places don't even if you're the owner.

Thanks for your response. That sucks very much. So I'm guessing two years it was different and more people were able to rent out apartments and airbnb them out? Because I thought the whole idea behind this thread was leasing to rent the places out. Whats the new strategy here when it comes to not buying? I'm not looking to buy anything.

So Cattle I assume your not Airbnb anymore.

Yeah, two to whatever years ago landlords did not know about AirBNB nor did most people, so it flew under the radar. As AirBNB grew, so did "Horror" stories thank to the media and it appeared under Greystars/Camdens/etc (landlords) radar. Now city councils want a piece of the action too, making it more complicated for landlords. Add in insurance for the building, which is for a living community, not a hotel.

I spoke to my ex's landlord and he thought about doing it himself since he owns multiple homes/units but it's too much of a headache with new regulations and possible liabilities.

You're right, I'm not on it anymore. It was a good run while it lasted since I could rent it out on weekends, stay at me then Gf's home, and rent was paid.

You could try to find a contract that doesn't prohibit subleasing but good luck with that.

[BoneDaddy]

CR speaks the truth. Renting a place and subleasing out on AirBnB or other platforms is a high-risk game these days. I wouldn't recommend even attempting to do this in any kind of multi-family unit. Even if you own the condo, the HOA will mostly likely forbid it, and then there's the local municipality.

Another issue is that the competition on the short-term rental platforms has gotten fierce in popular areas. If you post up a listing with zero reviews, how are you going to compete with all the other listings with dozens of five-star reviews, professional staging, photography and decor? That's the reality of the market right now.

I think the best entry point right now is for the aspiring short-term rental host to first get self-educated. Then reach out to existing and successful hosts and offer yourself as a service. A co-host, if you will. AirBnB even has co-hosting built into their platform. Offer to assist existing hosts with cleaning and turnover. An energetic entrepreneur in a large metro could do very well putting together a cleaning and turnover service to assist successful hosts with their biggest headache - cleaning and make-ready between guests. Then expand your portfolio of service to include photography and staging. And then handyman and repair services. And on and on.

Once you learn the game, you could approach existing hosts and offer to master-lease their property for a fixed monthly lease, and you make money on the spread.

There are so many opportunities in the short-term rental space for a hustler to make bank that are far better than attempting to lease and re-rent on AirBnB.

[PrettyBoyAJ]

The knowledge you guys have given me have been very informative and I appreciate all the information. It means a lot because both of you guys have first hand experience with Airbnb. The reason it appealed to me was because I need to get a new place anyway and figured if I could make money Airbnb it out I could just do it for passive income. Your cleaning and turnover service is actually a great idea. Never thought about anything like that. I'm going to put my head down and do more research and figure out what/how I can do what I want to do.

[BoneDaddy]

(10-17-2018 01:48 PM)PrettyBoyAJ Wrote:  

The knowledge you guys have given me have been very informative and I appreciate all the information. It means a lot because both of you guys have first hand experience with Airbnb. The reason it appealed to me was because I need to get a new place anyway and figured if I could make money Airbnb it out I could just do it for passive income. Your cleaning and turnover service is actually a great idea. Never thought about anything like that. I'm going to put my head down and do more research and figure out what/how I can do what I want to do.

PBAJ,

Glad to help a young hustler any way I can.

I would also suggest looking for a Short-Term Rental Association in your city. Even if one does or doesn't exist, there are Facebook groups for Short-Term Rental hosts in most major metros.

There are a few short-term rental FB groups that are nationwide. All the good ones that I know about are private/secret groups and most require that you provide a link to your short-term rental listing before being admitted to the group. However, if you could show that you are running a venture that services short-term rentals, you'd probably get admitted.

Also get on the NextDoor.com neighborhood groups in your area and announce your services that support short-term rentals. Do the same on ThumbTack.com. Maybe even Craigslist if you can tolerate that cesspool.

If you have time, energy and the willingness to FIO (Figure It Out) you'll do well!

Bone

[playeronecheck]

I did this for a while. Made some very good money off of it since it was illegal and thus not so many other people doing it which equated a high profit. There was one summer month where I made 3 300 usd. Hired a cleaner, learned a lot from this torrent "Lynda - making money with airbnb". It's on the pirate bay.

[PrettyBoyAJ]

One of my friends is doing it in Atlanta and is making some profit. His apartment complex doesn’t allow him to do it but there’s ways around it. So I think this is still viable as long as your tenants don’t snitch.

[redbeard]

Banned user Goldmund has been renting out his second bedroom in NYC, racking up $30k in profit and much more in life experiences:

[url=https://twitter.com/GoldmundUnleash/status/1117796219068325888][/url]

[Robert High Hawk]

(10-16-2018 03:35 PM)BoneDaddy Wrote:  

SNIP

Another issue is that the competition on the short-term rental platforms has gotten fierce in popular areas. If you post up a listing with zero reviews, how are you going to compete with all the other listings with dozens of five-star reviews, professional staging, photography and decor? That's the reality of the market right now.

SNIP

So true. If you want to make money with AirBnB you need to be DIFFERENT. You have to have some kind of property that is unique and distinguishable.

Think way outside the box here. There will be DOZENS of condo's apartments 1&2 bedrooms available with EZ check in and fast wifi.

How about an RV that you lease with a awsome (and safe/quiet/secluded) parking spot/hookup that you also lease? That's just something that literally is off the top of my head. Maybe retarded and undoable, maybe a huge potential there. Convert an old schoolbus maybe? (actually I'm going to look into the economics of this immediately following this post)

In my area, unless you have a ridiculously high end place with awesome location, you won't be standing out. OR you are original. Some dude with a literal shack/tree house cleans up and charges good money because it has a nice view and it's fun and quirky to stay there. Nobody else in the area provides that kind of experience, so it stands out.

One easy way to stand out is being able to accommodate lots of people.

The minute a large group (think bachelor party) gets together for a trip, they start looking at large AirBnBs were they can ALL stay. And they will pay a premium for this kind of space. Bridesmaids groups. Family groups for weddings, etc... Not many places can accommodate more than 4.

Anyway, that's how it goes these days. Very tough market, lots of rules, stay ahead of the game and be original as heck to get your place to stand out to people searching for it.