[thegmanifesto]

Great reads:

The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 1

http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-mi...le-part-1/

The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 2

http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-mi...-part-2-2/

[Mirrored]

(02-17-2010 02:48 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Great reads:

The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 1

http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-mi...le-part-1/

The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 2

http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-mi...-part-2-2/

Hmm, interesting argument, ties into some arguments made in The Mating Mind.

I would say there are very few places where the whole pure Alpha thing is desirable, and, as you said, there are limits everywhere.

[Quasi]

Interesting, its just fails in saying that rich guys have to be monogamous, it should perhaps be famous, but even thats isnt true...

The more rich and famous you are the more you also have to win by being polygamous

[Giovonny]

Thats a cool article,

Basically an "Alpha" in America is not the same as an "Alpha" in other parts of the world, or even in different neighborhoods. If "Mystery" came to my hood , THE GIRLS would probably take his money and clothes. Being a good entertainer and business man does not make you an "Alpha".

And the word "Alpha" is way over-used. In America real "Alphas" usually go to prison.

[thegmanifesto]

Ha.

Yeah, if Neil Strauss was on my childhood playground, little girls would have choked him out with their jumpropes while playing double dutch.

[Quasi]

I think the article is mediocre..

I agree its context related and the word is really overly used to the degree of nonsense hip word, that is doesnt even constitute a meaning anymore. Its obvious that the original meaning of the word in the animal kingdom refers to the packleader and since human society is way more context related only gods like Brad Pitt etc, would be able to pull of alpha status everywhere. Alpha isnt about being in prison, thats wrong in my book, that just being stupid.

Its a hype word more than its really usefull for anything... alpha, beta, gamma, delta and epsilon all depends on our contexts

its that kinda shit that hapends when you let happy, go lucky ignorant americans with alot of bullshit words and peacock bluff misuse words for personal gains. Evolution is also widely misunderstood and often seen in totally wrong context trying to validate BS humanistic crap teorries.

So get a pack of schoolkids and rule..be the alpha, shouldnt be too hard to get a few boosterboxes of pokemon cards and rule their world or even better get some dogs, your their alpha pretty easy.

[Roosh]

I rarely use alpha/beta on the blog anymore because I think it's more nuanced than the black/white I used to portray it as.

[Nacirema]

I disagree with the guy who wrote this on some points, but it put words to a lot of observations I've been making going between the US and SA/Central America lately.

In other news, I re-posted it on Brad P's forum, he wasnt digging it.[/align]

[kingkong]

Quote:

obvious that the original meaning of the word in the animal kingdom

The original usage comes from studying wolf packs. It turned out the "alpha" male and female were actually mom and dad. Wolf packs are usually just nuclear families with maybe an aunt or uncle or two.

The so-called alpha you get in some primate species is just the biggest and strongest male. And their reigns are brief. They get beaten down by an up and comer or an alliance of two in pretty short order. Not rarely, they get killed.

I think we can agree there is nothing usefully analogous to human male-female relations. The way the word is used is absurd.

Internet nerds tend to a marginalized outsider mentality, and I think this perspective causes them to hallucinate non-existent power structures and hierarchy all over the place. Hence the conspiracy theories (Illuminati, whatever), ideas like alpha-beta men, tendency to try and "win" pointless debates, etc.

[Wald]

There is a part 3 as well:

http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-mi...le-part-3/

[College Game]

He had me with the first two, well written, and part of the conclusion, be in part three the guy just sounds like a fascist.

[playa_with_a_passport]

(03-01-2010 02:13 AM)College Game Wrote:  

He had me with the first two, well written, and part of the conclusion, be in part three the guy just sounds like a fascist.

Dead on man. Although a little verbose, Part 1 and 2 were among the best blog posts I have read in a while. Part 3 and beyond he went off the deep end. Maybe it went over my head but it sounded to to me more like incoherent rambling. I checked out his blog over the weekend, overall he's a decent blogger. However, I saw very little related to Game or bitches but then again he never claimed to be a PUA. He's more like your favorite Blogger's favorite Blogger.

[Rocco81]

I agree with some of you guys, Alpha is over used.

I did read an interesting article a while back which I think it's main point many here would agree with. There is one large thing that successful business tycoons and your average criminal sitting in prison have in common and that thing is "alphaness" or more specifically hunger for power and male drive. Also a higher than average testosterone level is usually present in these 2 populations. Both usually have numerous women (in prison or not) writing to them, have men who admire them and both are leaders of men and usually players of women.

The article suggests the biggest difference in these two kinds of men is normally the IQ level. The meth dealer with hillbilly strenght, 5 girl friends, loot in the bank and several offspring sees his competition and without sense for other options might just burn down his competitions house, shoot his competition or could just end up in a very violent confrontation over a very small reason having nothing to do with his money or bitches, leavning him with none of either. This is one version of alpha, a more dangerous version.

On the other hand the alpha who takes the smarter route, is still aggressive against his competition, but finds ways to outsmart, and gain power over his rivals. This can be a banker, stock broker, salesman, business tycoon, music producer etc. or a mafioso. Think organized Colombian cartels run like a business, or your basic crack dealer who would crack you on the head for $10. So you can see you have Smart Alpha and not so smart Alpha.

[Rocco81]

Back on topic...I'm with 'playa' here, after about midway through part 2 he started rambling...got kind of boring. overall pretty good article.

[hydrogonian]

Deleted

[thekiller]

As someone who works with criminals everyday I can tell you the average Inmate is NOT alpha. The whole concept of gangs is strength in numbers. A lot of the toughness and posturing is JUST that. 99.9% of the time any Inmate that talks any shit to me in the Pod, will do it to puff himself up in front of the homies. I pull him into the hallway and it's a whole different ballgame. "I'm sorry sir.", "I was being foolish, won't happen again.".

The hardcore problem young gang bangers, yes they get lots of letters, and they brag about all the women they have. But after seeing these women come to visit, and seeing the pictures that come in the mail for these guys (we have to search all mail but legal mail), 80% of them you'd not want to screw. The 20% that are hot probably have drug or other health issues. Along with being slutty, you'd be amazed how these guys will talk about the girls they're banging with each other and then find out they've been banging all the same girls.

I agree high testosterone is common, but I would also say a high degree of self-delusion about their intelligence, the ability to rationalize their actions to a high degree no matter how wrong, and a complete lack of personal responsibility are the norm.

But it is true, Alpha doesn't really mean a whole lot anymore.

EDIT-Read that guy's article on the Three Criminal tracks and it seems sound. The real Players in jail keep a low profile and rarely are in any trouble with COs. The good ones are very low key and you can barely tell they run things. The very good ones let Middle Management sit at the head of the table and look like they run shit.

[zanetti]

just read the article

i don't know anything about the author but when i read the bit where he said that "game recognises game" and that "winners recognise other winners and want to learn from them" he came across like a bit of a douche - like a KJ that spends most of his time behind his computer deluding himself into thinking he's figured out the world

[Rocco81]

Killer: You are correct about a few things here. Many things about bieng locked up are just posturing and for every one hardcore gangster that really knows the dirt, there are 10 that are just petty thieves and crack heads with extremely low IQ's. That is why as with any other place, prison's have a hierarchy of bad asses and petty crooks just as a business has a stratification of low end chumps in the mail room to the top dog CEO running shit.

Killer do you work in a Prison or a Jail? I would say jail is def 90% pussies/losers with the other 10% simply awaiting either trial or an open space in the pen. for more serious shit. Not to glamorize people in the Pen either, as I agree that most of them aren't "Alpha" like people like to romanticize the term, but many do have impulse control issues (mistaken for Alpha at times) and pretty much all in mates are there for a reason...very few guys just "end up" in prison without having a lot of shit on their record.

[nek]

These last few posts about jail reminds me of a favourite quote of mine: There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity

[EasyMoney]

What's alpha and what isn't is contextual - but that said whats masculine and what isn't transcends context. The author seems to suggest that being a true alpha somehow leads to you ending up in the slammer, which is odd.

You don't have to be "alpha" to get laid - you just have to be masculine. We tend to use alpha as a synonym for masculine - which isn't a mistake because they are interchangeable to a degree. I say this because there is always someone more "alpha" out there no matter who you are. Per random group of say 100 men, how many are going to be "alphas"? Who the fuck knows. But at least some are going to be masculine guys who aren't supplicating brainwashed bitches when it comes to women, and will probably be decently successful with women.

Everyone conceives of alphaness a little differently. For some alpha is about being a leader, for others its about being independent, for others its purely about success with women, or success in violent/hyper masculine endeavors like fighting in the cage, being a solider, etc.

Masculinity is seen in the west as the source of everyone's problems. Any middle class male born after 1970 has been intentionally disconnected from his masculinity. Some men slipped though the cracks though and managed to stay within their "id." These guys never had their balls cutoff, and are definitely more "alpha." I notice that guys like this in the middle class are definitely more rare, because the middle class in America is where all the efforts to champion morality and civility originate. I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said something to the the effect of "morality is for the middle class because the lower classes are never gonna get to the top and the people at the top pay no consequences for their bad behavior. Its the aspirational middle class that are the only ones who have to worry about peoples perception of them." That's pretty much what this guy is getting at.

[UrbanNerd]

I don't understand alpha/beta jargon nor try to.

I understand....
- thinking up some BS to say
- panties coming down
- how money and economics play a role

[Giovonny]

(02-06-2013 12:49 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

"morality is for the middle class because the lower classes are never gonna get to the top and the people at the top pay no consequences for their bad behavior. Its the aspirational middle class that are the only ones who have to worry about peoples perception of them."

[aphelion]

"Losers see winners in a situation and try to visualize either how it should be the losers winning instead or try to think about how the winner doesn’t really deserve to be winning and got his gains unfairly."

Mad wisdom in here.

[DarkTriad]

Great piece, thanks. Long read, but he really pulls it together with a kind of "unified field theory" by the 6th chapter.

All these random things we deal with are just different interest groups fighting for their "piece".

[Kwisatz]

I read it all the way through. I think that he says quite a few things that are often skipped over because they aren’t exciting to discuss.