[BostonBMW]

So the wingman and I hope to be hitting Vegas in Feb '10. He has been there, this is my first time. Our plan is to go suited down, stay at either Bellagio or Wynnn, definitely run some game on midwestern cuties, hold a steady buzz and play some blackjack. Blackjack only? Yes.

I could have posted this in Girls, Travel, but I chose money as the main thrust of this post (pardon the pun) is to talk about counting cards. For newbies like us, blackjack affords the best possibility to statistically beat the dealer. Since the wingman and I happen to be stats nerds, this provides the best possibility to win.The wing is already prepping using Robert Thorpe's book.

Our goal is to basically recoup the funds spent on traveling to Vegas - modest goals I know. We're not looking to bring back any major loot and the pact is to do well and cash out.

Now onto important matters; anyone experienced in counting cards? Any tips for the casinos?

My understanding is that small fries (under $1K) would be be able to fly under the radar,as we have no props, and will probably make mistakes. Just as a precaution, my wing is learning numbers in farsi, my dad's native tongue (yek,do se) to give us possible leverage. Pretty hilarious.

Any field reports will be most appreciated.


PS: We will be totally sober at the tables.

[HD668B]

I know about counting cards, but currently its a waste of time because casinos are using many many decks. So if you wanna do it, you need to have a complete team of pros.

I just use the basic strategy and I win most of the time. I paid for all my goodies & cigars like that when I went to DR. The trick is to cash in your gains as soon as you make them, and always continue to play with the same amount.

[BostonBMW]

When you say multiple decks, you mean 1 dealer using multiple decks? Also are the decks preshuffled?

We are small time. Maybe 1 large each. Also not going in there with a gambler mentality and responsible for keeping each other in check. As soon as we have the trip paid for, we are done.

[kingkong]

They autoshuffle four or five decks very often. You cannot count. All you can do is play perfect strategy and slowly bleed far less than with other games and have the resolve to quit the instant you might find yourself 1 or 2 % ahead.

[HD668B]

It's actually quite easy to memorize.


Dealer hit on soft 17 is better for you also.

[BostonBMW]

Excellent. Should be interesting to how it all turns out.

I still feel a level of 'control' over this game.

[The_CEO]

In high school a friend recommended some book like Carney on Cards regarding blackjack.
i read it and applied it and actually did ok routinely, but not always, back then

[loosewin]

I've never found BJ to be that entertaining myself. However, if you're heading to Vegas you should learn the rules of the game and basic strategy. Don't bother with card counting. Yes it can be done but the dealers can tell if you do so and will throw you out of the casino. Unless you're so good that you can count and fool the dealers. So I say forget getting too much into BJ and instead recommend you play poker. If you want to make money the live tables in Vegas are a gold mine. Learn a little strategy and you'll a lot more likely to make more money and have more fun than with BJ. Also, craps is a great social game but I can't speak towards strategy.

[thegmanifesto]

BostonBMW,

Stay at Wynn over Bellagio. Thank me later.

I wrote a review a while back: http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2007/06/hot...vegas.html

[Rasputin]

Counting cards won't really work these days because they use too many decks at a time. The more decks they use, the less effective a system like that is. Really all you can do is memorize basic strategy using the card L'Étranger posted. Heck, most casinos don't even care if you have the card with you when you are playing.

[The_CEO]

or, just try to hook up with some Rain Man type of savant.

[InternationPlayboy]

Actually, your best odds in a casino are craps.

[thegmanifesto]

" Actually, your best odds in a casino are craps. "

True that.

[BostonBMW]

Wow some solid advice (particularly from the venerable G).

Still considering travel options, Wynn is in, BJ has lost the allure. Will see craps, poker situation.

[thegmanifesto]

(01-28-2010 08:10 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:  

Wow some solid advice (particularly from the venerable G).

Still considering travel options, Wynn is in, BJ has lost the allure. Will see craps, poker situation.

A good way to look at Bellagio VS Wynn is that Wynn rectified his errors on Bellagio with Wynn.

Wynn was Steve Wynn's "dream come true" hotel.

(Side note: Wynn was to be originally called "Le Reve" which means "The Dream" after the Picasso painting that Steve Wynn has in his personal collection. They changed the name to "Wynn" for branding reasons. The name "Le Reve" was too cerebral. "Le Reve" is now the name of the signature show at Wynn. I know a sh$t load about that hotel, as I followed it from the conception stages and actually made a small killing on the stock).

Bellagio really pales in comparison. Although there is a lounge in Bellagio called "Caramel" that is really user friendly.

Venitian VS Wynn is a better match up than Bellagio VS Wynn.

[Entropy4]

G's dead-on about the Wynn. Best hotel in Vegas, hands down.

The nightclubs in the Wynn and Encore (XS and Tryst) were fucking sick last time I was there. Top shelf talent, awesome venues. Hard to get into, so find an "in" with the bouncers or promoters or get there really fucking early... XS's line had a 2+ hour wait most nights... even for the ladies. But considering that they're open until 5AM and how most of the other clubs in Vegas have gone to complete shit (Pure, anyone?), it may be worth it.

As for gambling... counting cards isn't worth your time unless you plan on putting days or weeks into it... the variance in blackjack is ridiculously high, so you're still playing on luck the first few thousand hands. Not to mention the free drinks catch up with you fast and you quit caring once you're up a bit.

Poker in Vegas is easy money but you have to be patient as hell. The tables are super soft -- full of Joe Schmoe's in Budweiser T-Shirts who all think they're Phil Hellmuth and wear Oakley's and stare you down at a fucking $1/$2 table. Like I said, easy money, but live games are sooooooooo sloooooooow.... You have to be willing to spend all day and night at a table to make any decent bank and even then you've have to make sure you don't run bad.

These days when I'm in Vegas, I play some casual Blackjack for fun and free drinks. If you're partying on a budget, Blackjack is ideal for pre-gaming as well, as the top clubs in Vegas will hit you for $20-25 per drink. Play some steady blackjack for an hour and you can hit the club already 3-4 deep.

[thekiller]

I did a bit of study on this. Everything I read says Blackjack has the best odds of all casino games. It's almost 50/50 with the house having a small edge IF you use basic strategy. Card counting does work and improves your odds but NOT by a huge percentage. So, unless you grind away at the tables a long time you either have to make ALL your bets big, or VARY your bets GREATLY depending on the count, and that tends to arouse suspicion. There's a simple method of counting that isn't significantly less accurate than Hi Lo but is far easier and makes playing more fun, it's called Speed Count. Also there's an awesome iPhone app by TMSoft called Card Counter that is great for learning Card Counting.

You can find single and double deck games in Vegas still, search the net before you go. Old Vegas like Binion's tend to have more of those. Hell, I found a double deck game in Yakima, WA!

and please, PLEASE, don't play Spanish 21. It is not Blackjack and the odds are much worse.

[seldonbilly]

No matter what the gambler is meant to lose its almost impossible to make a living unless you have millions of dollars. You can't win in the "long run" at blackjack without counting cards or cheating. If you play blackjack without counting cards or cheating, you are at a disadvantage. That is how casinos make money. then leave while they are ahead. If they play long enough, they will eventually give it back to the casino.

[BaronStanley]

Profitably counting cards at blackjack in Vegas is practically impossible. The casinos nowadays use way to many decks and cap max bets at tables to where you cannot overcome the built in edge the dealer has at blackjack. You are better off simply not gambling at all as it is a losing proposition. Do it for entertainment, yes... but don't plan to make any money at it.

I am a professional poker player and am very knowledgeable at gambling odds etc and lived in Vegas for 18 months. Counting cards is a thing of the past.

[DrArete]

Anyone who goes to a casino with the idea that they are going to make money is an idiot.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/casino-...ight,1506/

Several years ago, my father had some business with one of the Indian tribes in Connecticut, and I went to a casino there on several occasions as a result.

Two things stuck in my mind - the tribal members were incredibly uneducated and unprepared with the exception of a few senior leaders, and there were a never ending stream of suckers coming into the casino. I remember sitting in one guy's office which had a large tinted glass window giving a view of one of the entrances, and as I saw couple after couple, and group after group heading into the casino, I almost burst out laughing. They all seemed to think they were going to win. LOL. How do they think the casino pays for the massive construction? How do you think they give each tribal member 10k a month in spending money and a free house?

There is one born every minute.

[blsteve]

Counting cards doesn't really work anymore, there have been too many cases the casinos have been ripped off by clever players in the past. They are using several decks now and some casinos even have securities that watch the tables to detect "teams" that are cheating in some way. You need some really good control of your gambling budget to have a chance to leave the table with some profit. As already mentioned, it's really tough to win at Blackjack in the long run.