[chochemonger1]

I guess because of the Visa issues and the cost, there have been more forum members that have been to the Ukraine than Russia.
If I start learning Russian soon, I will head to both countries and see which soil is more fertile for a Latin guy like me.
With that in mind Im curious which country most forum members would pick to live in if they had fluent russian skills? Both have their pluses and minuses, but I have a feeling I would pick Russia, even though it is counterintuitive for a Latin guy.

[Greek kamaki]

Ukraine.Russia has much greater amount of hotties but is way more expensive and you have there strong police,drunk bullies and a general harshness to cope up with.Ukraine is very soft in comparison it is more European.

[Blunt]

For me it wouldn't be depending on the girls but more on my business or employment. I would want a more prosperous business/higher status position to live in Russia then in Ukraine, especially as I get older. You get some leeway for not having a ton of money in your 20's in both countries but in your 30's its more important.

Kamaki is spot-on about cost and atmosphere. Ukraine is generally a more relaxed place to live. I think Russian girls edge out Ukrainian girls when it comes to dress, style, and make-up, but overall I really don't know which I prefer.

[chochemonger1]

(09-14-2012 04:53 PM)Blunt Wrote:  

For me it wouldn't be depending on the girls but more on my business or employment. I would want a more prosperous business/higher status position to live in Russia then in Ukraine, especially as I get older. You get some leeway for not having a ton of money in your 20's in both countries but in your 30's its more important.

Kamaki is spot-on about cost and atmosphere. Ukraine is generally a more relaxed place to live. I think Russian girls edge out Ukrainian girls when it comes to dress, style, and make-up, but overall I really don't know which I prefer.

Yes the quality of the girls is high in both countries, so it wouldnt be about that, but more about the quality of life overall.
Kamaki paints a bleak and harsh picture of Russia, but I wonder if there is a city or 2 that go against the mold over there. Since I would be going alone I would expect a fight or 2. But that doesnt worry so much as the police over there.

[The Fantasist]

Move to a city in Eastern Ukraine,say Kharkov. Then apply for a Russian double entry visa. That way you can live cheaply in the Ukraine and get a feel for the place but also make a couple of cross border trips to check out a couple of Russian towns,say Rostov and Volgograd and see what you think of those places.

Eastern Ukraine is basically Russia anyway,just cheaper and more pleasant so you're getting the best of both worlds by being there. Russians consider Kharkov as one of their cities as much as they do Sevastopol.

[Greek kamaki]

It also depends on personality.Russia is better for harsh persons who behave like bears.It is not for the weak the easy frightened etc.In Russia you have to be used to the extreme and to very unpleasant behaviors and situations.Russians are also considerably smarter than Ukrainians but use it to their own advantage.
It also depends on the money you have and the quality of women you want.In Ukraine it is almost impossible to get 9's and above because they are very few and all taken by locals.In Russia it is still possible to get 9's,10's and stunners because there is abudancy and lots of cheating.

[Antipodean]

Having just spent about 4 weeks in each (plus a week in Belarus), I would say Ukraine for sure.

For quality of women, I would be inclined to say Ukraine, though its difficult to be objective.
I even met a couple of Russian guys who thought Ukraine girls were the most beautiful.
If you are worried that their fashion is from the current "Paris collection" then go for Moscow, but for me, natural beauty transcends fashion minutae.

Russians have a more insular, "we are the center of the world" attitude, whereas in Ukraine there is some level of desire to connect with the west.

Your dollars, etc will go further in Ukraine.

Re personal safety, I walk around extensively and all I see are millions of people of all ages trying to get on with their lives as best they can. Possibly safer in public than the US and other western countries but difficult to make an objective call without a SMSS*.
Ironically I have only been shaken down by police and seen it happen to others in Ukraine, and each time only well after midnight where alcohol is present.

I would go for Kiev because it is the biggest population mass in Ukraine and noticably more English language friendly than even a year ago, presumably because of Euro 2012.

Also like Vorkuta's suggestion above.
I thought that Kharkiv, Donetsk, Samara (Russia) were pretty nice cities, but if you spend time in Volgograd, either have a car or master the mashrutka routes as it is spread out like many American cities.

(* SMSS: statistically meaningful sample size)

[polish rumble]

Russia. It suites my character more. I find Russians to be more sophisticated, you may say that they possess the 'middle of the world attitude' but that's just stereotype, they are simple, straight people after all, even those which are making couple of millions a year. And Russian women are the real deal, but I know it's probably the matter of personal taste. Russian Militia? Unpredictable, but I have never had any problems with them. If I was the race troll I'd add something right now, but I'll stop here.

I agree that Eastern Ukraine is like UA&RUS combined, and I'd be the best option for an average guy who just begins the exploration of FSU culture.

[chochemonger1]

(09-15-2012 01:44 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

It also depends on personality.Russia is better for harsh persons who behave like bears.It is not for the weak the easy frightened etc.In Russia you have to be used to the extreme and to very unpleasant behaviors and situations.Russians are also considerably smarter than Ukrainians but use it to their own advantage.
It also depends on the money you have and the quality of women you want.In Ukraine it is almost impossible to get 9's and above because they are very few and all taken by locals.In Russia it is still possible to get 9's,10's and stunners because there is abudancy and lots of cheating.

Kamaki will $5000 US dollars a month cut it in a 2nd or 3rd tier city in Russia? I know in Moscow, being so expensive, that might not be enough for a comfortable lifestlye. I will definitely not go to Moscow or Petersburg. I will need to do the research and find the right city. I am used to extreme behaviors, here in little Ecuador the last 5 years, and people trying to take advantage all the time, so that is no big deal to me.
Being tanned over there will hurt my chances with those 8 or 9s or is it that if you have and display the money, they dont care?

[chochemonger1]

3 Russian candidate 2nd tier cities would be Samara, Kazan, Novosibirsk (capital of Siberia) or maybe a city in the Russian Far East...which N.Skywalker seems to rave about. I presume that in the smaller the city the more chance of bad shit happening than in Moscow or Petersburg, for example.

[The Fantasist]

Choche,out of interest why did you phrase the question 'if you were fluent in Russian....'?

[Partizan]

(09-15-2012 08:04 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 01:44 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

It also depends on personality.Russia is better for harsh persons who behave like bears.It is not for the weak the easy frightened etc.In Russia you have to be used to the extreme and to very unpleasant behaviors and situations.Russians are also considerably smarter than Ukrainians but use it to their own advantage.
It also depends on the money you have and the quality of women you want.In Ukraine it is almost impossible to get 9's and above because they are very few and all taken by locals.In Russia it is still possible to get 9's,10's and stunners because there is abudancy and lots of cheating.

Kamaki will $5000 US dollars a month cut it in a 2nd or 3rd tier city in Russia? I know in Moscow, being so expensive, that might not be enough for a comfortable lifestlye. I will definitely not go to Moscow or Petersburg. I will need to do the research and find the right city. I am used to extreme behaviors, here in little Ecuador the last 5 years, and people trying to take advantage all the time, so that is no big deal to me.
Being tanned over there will hurt my chances with those 8 or 9s or is it that if you have and display the money, they dont care?

$5k a month in a Russian 2nd or 3rd tier city will enable you to live like a king. In Moscow and St. Pete, that would be considered quite good as well. The average wage in a 2nd tier city like Ekaterinburg is approx €450 a month, thats right, a month. A good friend of mine makes 18,000RUB a month while her husband makes just above working in a steel plant. If they can get by on such a paltry amount then there is no reason why you cant either.

I plan on moving to a 2nd tier city next year to teach English for 1 year and plan to have €25k-30k in the bank (already have €12k in savings) which will enable me to live very well on top of my monthly salary there of about €800 a month. Thats more than enough for me to do some grabbing and smashing.

My monthly net salary here in Dublin is $3,200 a month but when you have to pay for a generous welfare state i should be raking in alot more.

[Partizan]

(09-15-2012 08:14 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

3 Russian candidate 2nd tier cities would be Samara, Kazan, Novosibirsk (capital of Siberia) or maybe a city in the Russian Far East...which N.Skywalker seems to rave about. I presume that in the smaller the city the more chance of bad shit happening than in Moscow or Petersburg, for example.

A Russian 2nd tier city would be a place with a population of 1 million +

Add in Ekaterinburg, Ufa, Rostov, Volgograd, Chelyabinsk, Perm, Krasnoyarsk, Omsk. You are talking serious, friendly and available talent in these cities that would put Ukraine or Belarus in the shade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cit...population

Deres gold in dem dur hills.

[The Duke]

Google recently added Street View to Kharkiv. (Euro 2012 related?) You can look around to get a feel for the place. This is Pushkinska street, possibly the nicest street in town. These pics are from this Spring I think, probably taken in the early morning before students swarm the streets. I can say right now the streets are much more busy than this. Too bad Google blurs out girls faces.

http://goo.gl/maps/pxndj

Kharkiv may or may not be your best option. As a Latin guy, you might prefer Poland.

[chochemonger1]

(09-15-2012 08:18 AM)Partizan Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 08:04 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 01:44 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

It also depends on personality.Russia is better for harsh persons who behave like bears.It is not for the weak the easy frightened etc.In Russia you have to be used to the extreme and to very unpleasant behaviors and situations.Russians are also considerably smarter than Ukrainians but use it to their own advantage.
It also depends on the money you have and the quality of women you want.In Ukraine it is almost impossible to get 9's and above because they are very few and all taken by locals.In Russia it is still possible to get 9's,10's and stunners because there is abudancy and lots of cheating.

Kamaki will $5000 US dollars a month cut it in a 2nd or 3rd tier city in Russia? I know in Moscow, being so expensive, that might not be enough for a comfortable lifestlye. I will definitely not go to Moscow or Petersburg. I will need to do the research and find the right city. I am used to extreme behaviors, here in little Ecuador the last 5 years, and people trying to take advantage all the time, so that is no big deal to me.
Being tanned over there will hurt my chances with those 8 or 9s or is it that if you have and display the money, they dont care?

$5k a month in a Russian 2nd or 3rd tier city will enable you to live like a king. In Moscow and St. Pete, that would be considered quite good as well. The average wage in a 2nd tier city like Ekaterinburg is approx €450 a month, thats right, a month. A good friend of mine makes 18,000RUB a month while her husband makes just above working in a steel plant. If they can get by on such a paltry amount then there is no reason why you cant either.

I plan on moving to a 2nd tier city next year to teach English for 1 year and plan to have €25k-30k in the bank (already have €12k in savings) which will enable me to live very well on top of my monthly salary there of about €800 a month. Thats more than enough for me to do some grabbing and smashing.

That is the only thing that has been good about being in Ecuador the last 5 years.....invested in Real Estate and now have $6000 per month in passive income. Now, Im just planning on living here 3 months of the year to check that everything is ok. So if it takes that amount a month to make a splash in a 2nd tier Russian, I will use it. So hoping I like it there, so I can go back every year.
My ideal for the next 3 years would be 3 months in Brazil, 3 months in Ecuador, 2 months in Colombia and 4 in Russia. However, that depends on things going well in Russia and what impression the Dominican Republic leaves on me during the winter of 2013.

[Partizan]

(09-15-2012 08:33 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 08:18 AM)Partizan Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 08:04 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 01:44 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

It also depends on personality.Russia is better for harsh persons who behave like bears.It is not for the weak the easy frightened etc.In Russia you have to be used to the extreme and to very unpleasant behaviors and situations.Russians are also considerably smarter than Ukrainians but use it to their own advantage.
It also depends on the money you have and the quality of women you want.In Ukraine it is almost impossible to get 9's and above because they are very few and all taken by locals.In Russia it is still possible to get 9's,10's and stunners because there is abudancy and lots of cheating.

Kamaki will $5000 US dollars a month cut it in a 2nd or 3rd tier city in Russia? I know in Moscow, being so expensive, that might not be enough for a comfortable lifestlye. I will definitely not go to Moscow or Petersburg. I will need to do the research and find the right city. I am used to extreme behaviors, here in little Ecuador the last 5 years, and people trying to take advantage all the time, so that is no big deal to me.
Being tanned over there will hurt my chances with those 8 or 9s or is it that if you have and display the money, they dont care?

$5k a month in a Russian 2nd or 3rd tier city will enable you to live like a king. In Moscow and St. Pete, that would be considered quite good as well. The average wage in a 2nd tier city like Ekaterinburg is approx €450 a month, thats right, a month. A good friend of mine makes 18,000RUB a month while her husband makes just above working in a steel plant. If they can get by on such a paltry amount then there is no reason why you cant either.

I plan on moving to a 2nd tier city next year to teach English for 1 year and plan to have €25k-30k in the bank (already have €12k in savings) which will enable me to live very well on top of my monthly salary there of about €800 a month. Thats more than enough for me to do some grabbing and smashing.

That is the only thing that has been good about being in Ecuador the last 5 years.....invested in Real Estate and now have $6000 per month in passive income. Now, Im just planning on living here 3 months of the year to check that everything is ok. So if it takes that amount a month to make a splash in a 2nd tier Russian, I will use it. So hoping I like it there, so I can go back every year.
My ideal for the next 3 years would be 3 months in Brazil, 3 months in Ecuador, 2 months in Colombia and 4 in Russia. However, that depends on things going well in Russia and what impression the Dominican Republic leaves on me during the winter of 2013.

You have it made my dear man. I wish I had that luxury. When do you intend to move, next year? I would start of with Poland first then venture into Ukraine and so on until you get a taste of Russia. It can be fairly daunting and is not for everyone. I have lived abroad before and the culture/language shock can take some time to get used to.

[timmy21]

I think I'd chose Ukraine, Russians are extreamely aggressive by nature, Ukrainians are as well, but not near as much as the Russians, Ukrainain girls as less edgy and not as rough as Russians, many Russian guys come to Ukraine and search for a life partner, I am a stickler for manners, and in both countries, people are very BAD mannered, the guys are loud, and they spit constantly regardless of who's around, it really wears on you, if you're dead set on Russia, pick a city near the Urals, a smaller city, with cozy cafes, a good size uinversity, well kept city parks, this area of the country may be cheaper than the major cities in the west, and dress warm, if you're there in the winter, it's best to bring a good quality down fill coat, something from Columbia, and don't forget your head gear, or you can pick up a traditional Russian hat at the local open air market for about $40, and of course learn basic Russian, not alot of people in either country speak English,

[chochemonger1]

(09-15-2012 08:42 AM)Partizan Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 08:33 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 08:18 AM)Partizan Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 08:04 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(09-15-2012 01:44 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

It also depends on personality.Russia is better for harsh persons who behave like bears.It is not for the weak the easy frightened etc.In Russia you have to be used to the extreme and to very unpleasant behaviors and situations.Russians are also considerably smarter than Ukrainians but use it to their own advantage.
It also depends on the money you have and the quality of women you want.In Ukraine it is almost impossible to get 9's and above because they are very few and all taken by locals.In Russia it is still possible to get 9's,10's and stunners because there is abudancy and lots of cheating.

Kamaki will $5000 US dollars a month cut it in a 2nd or 3rd tier city in Russia? I know in Moscow, being so expensive, that might not be enough for a comfortable lifestlye. I will definitely not go to Moscow or Petersburg. I will need to do the research and find the right city. I am used to extreme behaviors, here in little Ecuador the last 5 years, and people trying to take advantage all the time, so that is no big deal to me.
Being tanned over there will hurt my chances with those 8 or 9s or is it that if you have and display the money, they dont care?

$5k a month in a Russian 2nd or 3rd tier city will enable you to live like a king. In Moscow and St. Pete, that would be considered quite good as well. The average wage in a 2nd tier city like Ekaterinburg is approx €450 a month, thats right, a month. A good friend of mine makes 18,000RUB a month while her husband makes just above working in a steel plant. If they can get by on such a paltry amount then there is no reason why you cant either.

I plan on moving to a 2nd tier city next year to teach English for 1 year and plan to have €25k-30k in the bank (already have €12k in savings) which will enable me to live very well on top of my monthly salary there of about €800 a month. Thats more than enough for me to do some grabbing and smashing.

That is the only thing that has been good about being in Ecuador the last 5 years.....invested in Real Estate and now have $6000 per month in passive income. Now, Im just planning on living here 3 months of the year to check that everything is ok. So if it takes that amount a month to make a splash in a 2nd tier Russian, I will use it. So hoping I like it there, so I can go back every year.
My ideal for the next 3 years would be 3 months in Brazil, 3 months in Ecuador, 2 months in Colombia and 4 in Russia. However, that depends on things going well in Russia and what impression the Dominican Republic leaves on me during the winter of 2013.

You have it made my dear man. I wish I had that luxury. When do you intend to move, next year? I would start of with Poland first then venture into Ukraine and so on until you get a taste of Russia. It can be fairly daunting and is not for everyone. I have lived abroad before and the culture/language shock can take some time to get used to.

Now I have it made to a degree, but it took staying years suffering it out in a country like Ecuador. Thank God for my regular trips to Colombia and Brazil. Partizan, I can get over culture shock pretty easily, if there plenty of young hot women to entertain me every day. When I stayed in Vietnam for 2 months, after a week I hit my stride and everything was smooth sailing after that. Didnt have as much attention as a white blue eyed guy, but as a Latin guy had no problems pulling regularly over there (though not like the Philippines).
Russia is a great uknown for a Latin guy. Don´t have any idea what kind of reception I will receive from the girls. In Vietnam, I already knew Id bang regularly, because my younger brother stayed there for 9 months teaching english and did very well, before i went over there
The next 3 months in Brazil, if I see a true decline, I will go all out with studying Russian.

[The Fantasist]

Chochemonger,you are pretty minted by tbe sound of it so instead of making the big decision to move to Russia/Ukraine and going through the tribulations of learning decent Russian only to possibly find you are not getting the pussy paradise you expected, why not fly out to Kiev for a fortnight from SA? You could drop in on Duke in Kharkov who would no doubt show you around. Hit Poland for a few days,maybe catch up with a forum member there for a night out to see how the land lies there and then hit Russia for a few days to see how girls react to you there. I'm sure one of us would be in the area to show you how it's done in Russia.

Then you'd know if it's a place you want to return to for a longer stint. Just an idea.

[chochemonger1]

(09-16-2012 08:30 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

Chochemonger,you are pretty minted by tbe sound of it so instead of making the big decision to move to Russia/Ukraine and going through the tribulations of learning decent Russian only to possibly find you are not getting the pussy paradise you expected, why not fly out to Kiev for a fortnight from SA? You could drop in on Duke in Kharkov who would no doubt show you around. Hit Poland for a few days,maybe catch up with a forum member there for a night out to see how the land lies there and then hit Russia for a few days to see how girls react to you there. I'm sure one of us would be in the area to show you how it's done in Russia.

Then you'd know if it's a place you want to return to for a longer stint. Just an idea.

Thanks Vorkuta. Yes a 4 month trip of Poland, Ukraine and Russia might be worth it before taking the plunge of learning Russian. Just that now that I will be 3 months in Brazil and 2 months in the DR, I will have a lot of free time, which I wont have for a long awhile after that. If we only had a lot of Russian and Ukrainian girls come to South America like they do to Greece, for example, the decision would be so damn easy. Kamaki is one lucky bastard lol.

[Greek kamaki]

The ones who stay here get a lot of indoctrination by Greek women how they should play hard to get,extract maximum benefit from men play the lady etc.Greek women try to infuse all their poison to them as they regard them as threats to their value in the pussy market.

[chochemonger1]

(09-16-2012 10:28 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

The ones who stay here get a lot of indoctrination by Greek women how they should play hard to get,extract maximum benefit fromt hem play the lady etc.Greek women try to infuse all their poison to them as they regard them as threats to their value in the pussy market.

So those who stay learn greek? So Kamaki I assume you avoid Slavic girls there who speak greek.

[The Fantasist]

(09-16-2012 08:47 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

If we only had a lot of Russian and Ukrainian girls come to South America like they do to Greece, for example, the decision would be so damn easy. Kamaki is one lucky bastard lol.

I seem to remember that Transaero fly Moscow to Rio direct twice a week with a big old 747 so there must be a few heading out there.

Regarding how Latinos go down with the ladies over in the FSU. I went to a Cuban restaurant in Kiev ( the one up by the intercontinental hotel )and the Latino owner seemed to be doing alright for himself judging by the fine woman he had on his arm. If you have style and the right attitude ( not to mention your $5000 a month budget ) you'll kill it.

[chochemonger1]

(09-16-2012 11:12 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 08:47 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

If we only had a lot of Russian and Ukrainian girls come to South America like they do to Greece, for example, the decision would be so damn easy. Kamaki is one lucky bastard lol.

I seem to remember that Transaero fly Moscow to Rio direct twice a week with a big old 747 so there must be a few heading out there.

Regarding how Latinos go down with the ladies over in the FSU. I went to a Cuban restaurant in Kiev ( the one up by the intercontinental hotel )and the Latino owner seemed to be doing alright for himself judging by the fine woman he had on his arm. If you have style and the right attitude ( not to mention your $5000 a month budget ) you'll kill it.

When I am in the Dominican Republlic I will do my research and see if there are resorts that have alot of Russian, Ukranian or EE girls. If I can find a few of these, then learning Russian is a no brainer. Then, I might consider even living there. Imagine having the option of hot young Dominicanas in the cities and towns and Russian speaking women in the resorts. Now that would be a true pussy paradise

[Greek kamaki]

(09-16-2012 10:36 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

(09-16-2012 10:28 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

The ones who stay here get a lot of indoctrination by Greek women how they should play hard to get,extract maximum benefit fromt hem play the lady etc.Greek women try to infuse all their poison to them as they regard them as threats to their value in the pussy market.

So those who stay learn greek? So Kamaki I assume you avoid Slavic girls there who speak greek.

Yes,most Russian girls here after one year speak excellent Greek.Polish girls do not seem to learn so well though because they prefer to stay among their own.Also polish women do not change to the same degree from their situation in Poland as Russian women do.