[Sebastian]

I went out tonight, got into a fight and left.
I was pretty pumped up after my first approach went pretty good.

I was passing by this guy and he seemed very mad. he wasn't moving at all and was staring at me whole time. I knew this guy was one of those who were mad because of girls.

It started from small verbal argument and this guy was taking too serious. I tried to laugh at him (it's better to just laugh instead of showing tough face. it will make them more mad)
and told him don't touch me, I am not a gay (he was pushing me with his beer belly)

when he grabbed my neck, I punched his face. Some other people grabbed him and I told the bouncer I was leaving since I didn't want to get kicked out like a dog.

I was having good time with girls. I could just walk away from it but I couldn't let someone treat me like that just because they were having a bad time at a bar.

Can you get in trouble by fighting in a bar? let's say what if I knocked his teeth out. would bouncers hold me till police arrives?

[23Billion]

I don't know which country you're in man. But in Canada I would avoid getting into a bar fight. You don't want a lawsuit on your hands or end up getting a record or something. Although most of my friends are built like Mack trucks so nobody really picks up a fight with! But even if I was alone, I'd walk away.

Just brush it off man it was a bad experience. Don't let an underachiever with a beer belly ruin your perspective.

(09-02-2012 02:13 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

I went out tonight, got into a fight and left.
I was pretty pumped up after my first approach went pretty good.

I was passing by this guy and he seemed very mad. he wasn't moving at all and was staring at me whole time. I knew this guy was one of those who were mad because of girls.

It started from small verbal argument and this guy was taking too serious. I tried to laugh at him (it's better to just laugh instead of showing tough face. it will make them more mad)
and told him don't touch me, I am not a gay (he was pushing me with his beer belly)

when he grabbed my neck, I punched his face. Some other people grabbed him and I told the bouncer I was leaving since I didn't want to get kicked out like a dog.

I was having good time with girls. I could just walk away from it but I couldn't let someone treat me like that just because they were having a bad time at a bar.

Can you get in trouble by fighting in a bar? let's say what if I knocked his teeth out. would bouncers hold me till police arrives?

[nyctopdawg]

(09-02-2012 03:13 AM)23Billion Wrote:  

I don't know which country you're in man. But in Canada I would avoid getting into a bar fight. You don't want a lawsuit on your hands or end up getting a record or something. Although most of my friends are built like Mack trucks so nobody really picks up a fight with! But even if I was alone, I'd walk away.

Just brush it off man it was a bad experience. Don't let an underachiever with a beer belly ruin your perspective.

So you would just walk away after another man grabbed you by the neck in a bar because you're afraid of getting a legal trouble?
That's super pussy bro. With such a mentally, you will get walked over by both men and women in all facets of life. Once they sense your weakness and fear, it's over for you...

To OP, good job on punching that sucker in the face. When you go to bars, you should expect altercation and be ready to handle it. Try to defuse a verbal situation and never be the first one to make physical contact but once someone hits you, by all means hit back harder...

[Gmac]

Elbow to the face always looks like an accident.

[polymath]

If anyone puts a hand on you, lay him the fuck out. He brought it upon himself.

[johnwu]

"Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way round or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.

Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend."

You could've avoided the entire situation if you wanted to, but it doesn't look like you wanted to.

[Kitsune]

[Surreyman]

In the UK once someone attacks you, or threatens to, the law can't touch you for anything you do to them while they're standing (as long as you don't use a weapon or kill them).

Are there countries where you can get done for self defence? That sounds crazy.

[MrXY]

(09-02-2012 02:13 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

Can you get in trouble by fighting in a bar? let's say what if I knocked his teeth out. would bouncers hold me till police arrives?

Getting into a bar fight, depending on what happened, can result in you getting arrested, imprisoned, sued, hurt or killed. But who knows what bouncers would do-how do you expect anyone to answer that question?

In this instance, anyone grabbing or striking at your neck can cause serious injury or death. You were totally in the right, practically and legally. in defending yourself with a punch.

My rule is anyone can say whatever to me but if they touch me they will get a physical response. If they get in my face to try and set me up for a sucker punch I will back off in a hands up guard stance to gain distance.

You best weapon is your mind- awareness and psychology are the best defenses. Always walk away if you can. Learn and practice some self defense skills for when you can't.

[Sebastian]

I am in the U.S.

I watched some bar fight videos on youtube and was thinking what if he would request the footage and would want to charge the press.
They would see I was trying to avoid him for several minutes. I turned my head to somewhere, just laughed at him and even told him don't touch me with his belly. I am sure I looked like a total wuss trying to avoid the fight till he grabbed my neck. So as far as the video record goes, I think I will be ok.

I've seen many bar fights and usually nobody throws punch at all. they usually just push each other, bouncer comes then it's over. I am not sure why they don't throw the punch because they are afraid of the law or escalating into bigger fight.
When I punched him I saw surprised look on his face. I am sure he just thought he could scare me and walk away. (I am not a small guy but he was 30~50 lbs heavier)

Maybe I should just walk away next time. Would you just walk away if he bumps into you or stare at you mad crazy just because he is not getting laid that night? LOL

[Merenguero]

(09-02-2012 02:43 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 02:13 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

Can you get in trouble by fighting in a bar? let's say what if I knocked his teeth out. would bouncers hold me till police arrives?

Getting into a bar fight, depending on what happened, can result in you getting arrested, imprisoned, sued, hurt or killed. But who knows what bouncers would do-how do you expect anyone to answer that question?

In this instance, anyone grabbing or striking at your neck can cause serious injury or death. You were totally in the right, practically and legally. in defending yourself with a punch.

My rule is anyone can say whatever to me but if they touch me they will get a physical response. If they get in my face to try and set me up for a sucker punch I will back off in a hands up guard stance to gain distance.

You best weapon is your mind- awareness and psychology are the best defenses. Always walk away if you can. Learn and practice some self defense skills for when you can't.

MrXY is giving pretty good advice here. The only thing I take expception to is that a person will get a physical response from him if he merely touches him. In the jurisdiction in which I practice law, when a Defendant raises the issue of self defense, the burden is on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that one of the following factors do not apply: that you honestly believed that you were in danger of imminent bodily harm, that your belief was reasonable, and that you used no more force than was reasonably necessary in light of the actual or threatened harm. Because you only punched the guy once, I do not believe you used excessive force. If you had punched him two or three times or punched him while he was on the ground, I believe you would have a more difficult case to argue. I have actually argued in the past that guys who have punched someone two or three times did not use excessive force. It all depends on the circumstances. I also believe that you had an actual and reasonable fear that this guy was going to hurt you when he grabbed you by the neck. If you were to be charged with assault and/or battery, which you probably won't be, you should probably be able to get off on a self defense argument. One thing that many people fail to understand is even if your conduct amounted to self defense and you would not be proven guilty of assault or battery, you could be charged with other offenses such as affray or disorderly conduct. Affray is a very old legal concept which involves getting into a fight in public. No affray statute has been enacted in the jursdiction in which I practice and it is not extremely common that a person is charged with it. I have actually seen judges on multiple occasions not know the meaning of the word affray and have to resort to Black's Legal Dictionary or some other legal resourse. My understanding is that in some cases, a Defendant can be found guilty of affray even if the fight is not his fault. Disorderly conduct is another offense with which I have seen people charged even if the Defendant's conduct was self defense. It is generally a minor offense, but it is very commonly charged. In my opinion, in order to prove that offense, the state should have a person who was present at the time of the conduct to prove that the public peace was disturbed as a result of the fight or the overall conduct. I really don't see you being charged for anything here.

I believe you were correct in punching the guy, granted you only punched him once. Your mistake was in not walking away prior to him grabbing your neck. Fights should and can almost always be avoided. If I were to get into a fight, I would be risking losing my freedom, my license to practice law, my bank account, and possibly my life. It it really worth it because some angry, sexless, fat guy looked at you the wrong way? I realize that the bar may have been frisking people for weapons upon entry, but who is to say that this guy wouldn't have pulled out a gun and shot you after you hit him? You never know who you are dealing with. The G Manifesto once said something to the effect of a lion does not react to a cockroach. This holds true here. My life involves making money, going to the gym, reading, approaching women, and staying positive. Angry, sexless, fat guys don't have a place in my life and should be avoided entirely.

[joehoya]

For bars (which I rarely go to anymore, in part because of the potential for fights) a lot of factors come into play. My number one rule is to try to defuse the situation. Second, I don't get physical when facing verbal taunts/insults.

Beyond that, assess your enviornment and then make the call.
1) Are you alone at this bar, or with a crew that will back you up?
2) Is this a bar that you are not a regular in? Do you know the bouncers? Do you know if your opponent is a regular?

There is a HUGE difference between getting into a fight at a bar where you are a regular at, and have 5 or 10 of your homeboys ready to back you up, vs. a bar that you have never been to before and you are alone. There are folks out there that LOVE starting shit when they know that their boys are nearby ready to jump the other guy. Have you ever those videos of a big ass water buffalo being taken down and ripped to shreds by a pack of hyenas? That is what it looks like when one guy (no matter how good of a one-on-one fighter he is) gets jumped by a pack of other dudes.

But what if you win? Well, it depends on how you win. What if you lay the guy out, but he falls, hits his head, and dies? You could be facing a manslaughter charge. What if you lay him out and he leaves? Then you have to deal with a fact that so many people forget. STREETFIGHTS NEVER END. That dude might come back with some homeboys and wait for you outside of the club, or just bring a pistol and wait for you. There was a Florida story very recently about this. A dude got into it with two brothers (not "brothers" as in black, but brothers as in siblings) at a bar. The brothers whipped the dude's ass. The dude went home, got his .40 cal pistol, and shot and killed the brothers when they left the bar. The guy go convicted of murder, but the two brothers are still dead.

Or there have been the times when I have seen guys get their ass whipped days, weeks, even months after winning a bar fight The guy who lost the fight catches the victor while his guard is down much later and lays into him. This shit happens all of the time.

I find that carrying myself a certain way (calm, friendly, but assertive) tends to neutralize a lot of potential altercations. Then again, I am a 6'4" 250lb black guy with a shaved head, so not that many people step to me anyway.

[reino341]

(09-02-2012 05:55 PM)joehoya Wrote:  

Then again, I am a 6'4" 250lb black guy with a shaved head, so not that many people step to me anyway.

Dude I want to be you. Perhaps without the black though.

[Diomedes]

(09-02-2012 05:55 PM)joehoya Wrote:  

For bars (which I rarely go to anymore, in part because of the potential for fights) a lot of factors come into play. My number one rule is to try to defuse the situation. Second, I don't get physical when facing verbal taunts/insults.

Beyond that, assess your enviornment and then make the call.
1) Are you alone at this bar, or with a crew that will back you up?
2) Is this a bar that you are not a regular in? Do you know the bouncers? Do you know if your opponent is a regular?

There is a HUGE difference between getting into a fight at a bar where you are a regular at, and have 5 or 10 of your homeboys ready to back you up, vs. a bar that you have never been to before and you are alone. There are folks out there that LOVE starting shit when they know that their boys are nearby ready to jump the other guy. Have you ever those videos of a big ass water buffalo being taken down and ripped to shreds by a pack of hyenas? That is what it looks like when one guy (no matter how good of a one-on-one fighter he is) gets jumped by a pack of other dudes.

But what if you win? Well, it depends on how you win. What if you lay the guy out, but he falls, hits his head, and dies? You could be facing a manslaughter charge. What if you lay him out and he leaves? Then you have to deal with a fact that so many people forget. STREETFIGHTS NEVER END. That dude might come back with some homeboys and wait for you outside of the club, or just bring a pistol and wait for you. There was a Florida story very recently about this. A dude got into it with two brothers (not "brothers" as in black, but brothers as in siblings) at a bar. The brothers whipped the dude's ass. The dude went home, got his .40 cal pistol, and shot and killed the brothers when they left the bar. The guy go convicted of murder, but the two brothers are still dead.

Or there have been the times when I have seen guys get their ass whipped days, weeks, even months after winning a bar fight The guy who lost the fight catches the victor while his guard is down much later and lays into him. This shit happens all of the time.

I find that carrying myself a certain way (calm, friendly, but assertive) tends to neutralize a lot of potential altercations. Then again, I am a 6'4" 250lb black guy with a shaved head, so not that many people step to me anyway.

Sound, experienced, advice worth listening to.

We've all ran into the vulgar, but getting to the point of locking horns in a situation such as this should be a very rare occurrence. Especially as those on here should have the social nous to diffuse next to any altercation.

I cannot take a moral high ground as I have been involved in similar affairs, however at this point in my life I have come to the conclusion that anyone who gets into these situations WANTS to get into them.

Sebastian;

Why are you getting into a dialogue with him?
Why are you then laughing at him and then questioning his sexuality? Could you not see that this will provoke an angry individual and lead to an altercation?

You could have prevented this many times over.

"In the UK once someone attacks you, or threatens to, the law can't touch you for anything you do to them while they're standing (as long as you don't use a weapon or kill them)."

This is not the case and bad advice. Try getting into a fight this weekend. You'll get nicked, charged with an affray and the police will not give two shits over who started it as they scratch off their arrest quota for the month.

[Brian]

(09-02-2012 02:13 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

I went out tonight, got into a fight and left.
I was pretty pumped up after my first approach went pretty good.

I was passing by this guy and he seemed very mad. he wasn't moving at all and was staring at me whole time. I knew this guy was one of those who were mad because of girls.

It started from small verbal argument and this guy was taking too serious. I tried to laugh at him (it's better to just laugh instead of showing tough face. it will make them more mad)
and told him don't touch me, I am not a gay (he was pushing me with his beer belly)

when he grabbed my neck, I punched his face. Some other people grabbed him and I told the bouncer I was leaving since I didn't want to get kicked out like a dog.

I was having good time with girls. I could just walk away from it but I couldn't let someone treat me like that just because they were having a bad time at a bar.

Can you get in trouble by fighting in a bar? let's say what if I knocked his teeth out. would bouncers hold me till police arrives?

you are playing with fire. you never know what you are getting yourself into in a barfight. they guy could be a MMA fighter or ex boxer, or he may have a bunch of belligerent friends who are. there was a thread on here a few months ago written by a guy who got his ass kicked.

[Aliblahba]

These threads always make me miss bigbutyluvr. He always had a lot to say about kicking everyone's ass in his bar with his red cowboy boots. Lol.

I think Roosh should give him guest appearances.

[el mechanico]

(09-02-2012 08:18 PM)Brian Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 02:13 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

I went out tonight, got into a fight and left.
I was pretty pumped up after my first approach went pretty good.

I was passing by this guy and he seemed very mad. he wasn't moving at all and was staring at me whole time. I knew this guy was one of those who were mad because of girls.

It started from small verbal argument and this guy was taking too serious. I tried to laugh at him (it's better to just laugh instead of showing tough face. it will make them more mad)
and told him don't touch me, I am not a gay (he was pushing me with his beer belly)

when he grabbed my neck, I punched his face. Some other people grabbed him and I told the bouncer I was leaving since I didn't want to get kicked out like a dog.

I was having good time with girls. I could just walk away from it but I couldn't let someone treat me like that just because they were having a bad time at a bar.

Can you get in trouble by fighting in a bar? let's say what if I knocked his teeth out. would bouncers hold me till police arrives?

you are playing with fire. you never know what you are getting yourself into in a barfight. they guy could be a MMA fighter or ex boxer, or he may have a bunch of belligerent friends who are. there was a thread on here a few months ago written by a guy who got his ass kicked.

Who cares! If we start teaching younger dudes here to sweat that shit how can we teach them to become successful players? Dive in and get your feet wet it will all work out. Backing down to dudes in a bar fight is like backing down to pussy because of STD risks.

[el mechanico]

(09-02-2012 08:26 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

These threads always make me miss bigbutyluvr. He always had a lot to say about kicking everyone's ass in his bar with his red cowboy boots. Lol.

I think Roosh should give him guest appearances.

I would love to party with BBL. I'm going to ask him out on the NN forum he lives around here

[MikeCF]

Fighting is bad news.

I'm not a guy who ever followed the advice, "It's smarter to walk away."

There are many times I could have ended up in jail.

Fighting is a lot of fun but it's extremely risky - like having a motorcycle.

I used to think that adult men who had never been in a fight were pussies. (And they probably are.)

HOWEVER, as I get older I think of fights more along the lines of, "God damn, you're lucky not to be in prison or wearing a catheter after getting stabbed in the guts."

So maybe it's better to just be a pussy.

It used to be that if you "disrespected" me, we were going to have a talk. Now a guy could talk shit and I wouldn't even flinch.

Unless someone threatened a friend or was a legitimate danger to my safety, I probably would never fight again.

But god damn it hurts to "walk away."

There was a big homeless guy talking shit to me. He was bigger than me, so I could have beat him down without going to jail.

I did the math, "If I fuck this guy up, his blood might be dirty with hepatitis."

So I said, "We're cool" and he walked away. That hurt.

Some guys are just street. If you're not street, don't fight.

[HiFlo]

IME, 90% the dudes who try to pick a fight with me in a club over silly shit (bumping accidentally into each other, low-key amoging) are dudes who can't fight for shit but with a little alcohol in them think they're tough shit.

I don't see the point in fighting (and potentially risking your life) over the stupid shit that happens in a club like bumping into someone, or if some drunk joker thinks you're eyeballing him or his lady. Save that shit for when someone steals money from you or your 'friend' fucks your LTR, then it becomes serious.

[Brian]

(09-02-2012 08:30 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 08:18 PM)Brian Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 02:13 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

I went out tonight, got into a fight and left.
I was pretty pumped up after my first approach went pretty good.

I was passing by this guy and he seemed very mad. he wasn't moving at all and was staring at me whole time. I knew this guy was one of those who were mad because of girls.

It started from small verbal argument and this guy was taking too serious. I tried to laugh at him (it's better to just laugh instead of showing tough face. it will make them more mad)
and told him don't touch me, I am not a gay (he was pushing me with his beer belly)

when he grabbed my neck, I punched his face. Some other people grabbed him and I told the bouncer I was leaving since I didn't want to get kicked out like a dog.

I was having good time with girls. I could just walk away from it but I couldn't let someone treat me like that just because they were having a bad time at a bar.

Can you get in trouble by fighting in a bar? let's say what if I knocked his teeth out. would bouncers hold me till police arrives?

you are playing with fire. you never know what you are getting yourself into in a barfight. they guy could be a MMA fighter or ex boxer, or he may have a bunch of belligerent friends who are. there was a thread on here a few months ago written by a guy who got his ass kicked.

Who cares! If we start teaching younger dudes here to sweat that shit how can we teach them to become successful players? Dive in and get your feet wet it will all work out. Backing down to dudes in a bar fight is like backing down to pussy because of STD risks.

there's a difference between backing down when you have to an antagonizing. this dude was egging him on and easily could have avoided the situation .

[Sebastian]

Actually it was at a club. I just wrote it as a bar.
I think that's just the nature of the club.

I prefer going to bars a lot more. (trendy ones, not ghetto bars) Each bar has certain crowds.
But when you go to clubs, you will see all kinds of people like you are in a DMV.

I don't see people fighting at a bar. I don't see those monkey douche bags running around. I don't see girls in a whore uniform walking around like a princess. I don't see mad people who makes you think why the fuck they are there.
Girls don't reject you in a rude way. Guys are nicer too.

I think it's like going into the bad neighborhood. If you don't want any possibility of troubles, you shouldn't go there at all.

[el mechanico]

(09-02-2012 09:31 PM)Brian Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 08:30 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 08:18 PM)Brian Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 02:13 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

I went out tonight, got into a fight and left.
I was pretty pumped up after my first approach went pretty good.

I was passing by this guy and he seemed very mad. he wasn't moving at all and was staring at me whole time. I knew this guy was one of those who were mad because of girls.

It started from small verbal argument and this guy was taking too serious. I tried to laugh at him (it's better to just laugh instead of showing tough face. it will make them more mad)
and told him don't touch me, I am not a gay (he was pushing me with his beer belly)

when he grabbed my neck, I punched his face. Some other people grabbed him and I told the bouncer I was leaving since I didn't want to get kicked out like a dog.

I was having good time with girls. I could just walk away from it but I couldn't let someone treat me like that just because they were having a bad time at a bar.

Can you get in trouble by fighting in a bar? let's say what if I knocked his teeth out. would bouncers hold me till police arrives?

you are playing with fire. you never know what you are getting yourself into in a barfight. they guy could be a MMA fighter or ex boxer, or he may have a bunch of belligerent friends who are. there was a thread on here a few months ago written by a guy who got his ass kicked.

Who cares! If we start teaching younger dudes here to sweat that shit how can we teach them to become successful players? Dive in and get your feet wet it will all work out. Backing down to dudes in a bar fight is like backing down to pussy because of STD risks.

there's a difference between backing down when you have to an antagonizing. this dude was egging him on and easily could have avoided the situation .

Well Brian.. The hunt was on. Fight or Fuck that's what it was. You guys should get with me on this if you want to advance in this scenario. Start a thread..

[Aliblahba]

BRIAN!!!!! You are starting to sound like a liberal democrat!

Go to the nearest bar right now and punch someone in the face. You'll feel better.

[Brian]

(09-02-2012 09:48 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

BRIAN!!!!! You are starting to sound like a liberal democrat!

Go to the nearest bar right now and punch someone in the face. You'll feel better.

thats what happens w/old age