[Alpha Mind]

(08-27-2012 02:17 AM)travolta Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 01:29 AM)Alpha Mind Wrote:  

PPC is a pain in the ass to manage if you're in a serious space. I'm talking about ads for 15K products.

What's the difference if it's a 15K product or a $5 product? If you're using good tracking software (CPVLab, for example), and set everything up properly then why would this be an issue?

15K products means fifteen thousand products, as in individual, physical products.

[alecks]

guys what sort of resources/books etc would you recommend for a newb that just wants to make extra cash on the side?

ive NO CLUE about internet marketing.I know what SEO is and affiliate marketing but im just looking for info that would explain the ins and outs of these areas to make some cash.Il put the work in.

[ColSpanker]

Alpha: What's your take on Amazon's affiliate selling? I've created an Amazon affiliate website, but haven't done much with it.

[Alpha Mind]

(08-24-2012 05:35 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

What is your business looking like from an employee/office space etc. point of view?

I ask because I run ecommerce stores but have been asked by various people to do social media/SEO work for them, and I'm looking to go in that direction. However, I want to scale it up because actually doing the SEO is tedious and I'd be better served spending time macromanaging everything.

Do you have employees/an office, or outsource, or do the work manually/automated with software? I'm presuming your company is big enough that you don't do everything.

No office. Everything is virtual. That reduces out overhead and allows us to give clients more for their budget since there's no overhead.

Our minimum is quite high, so I do most of the heavy lifting myself, although I do have a 50/50 partner. Software has it's place, but clients that are paying upwards of 2K deserve better than spam links generated from software.

Since I've been doing it for so long, it's not tedious for me, but I have systems, proven strategies, etc.

[Alpha Mind]

(08-27-2012 08:23 AM)alecks Wrote:  

guys what sort of resources/books etc would you recommend for a newb that just wants to make extra cash on the side?

ive NO CLUE about internet marketing.I know what SEO is and affiliate marketing but im just looking for info that would explain the ins and outs of these areas to make some cash.Il put the work in.

For SEO, the best book is SEO for WordPress 3.0, buy a guy named Michael David.

There's plenty of ways to make money. The problem is, starting out, no one is going to give you a money niche...

I'd suggest find ONE thing you can sell, that has decent margins, and go from there.

[Alpha Mind]

(08-27-2012 12:32 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

Alpha: What's your take on Amazon's affiliate selling? I've created an Amazon affiliate website, but haven't done much with it.

Sure, people make money doing that, but your own product is always better.

With your own product, you can control everything.

What happens to your Amazon commission when someone else starts selling that and drops the price?

Having control of the price is powerful.

I'd suggest testing out your Amazon affiliate stuff, then look for products you can make or have made for you. You can essentially test things on the affiliate site, and if something sells well, make it yourself. Prove a product before investing.

[ColSpanker]

Alpha: I agree 100%, but right now we've just got four products for our market. All of them are exclusively our own creation. How many should I have to "be a contender"?

[WanderingSoul]

(08-27-2012 01:54 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

Alpha: I agree 100%, but right now we've just got four products for our market. All of them are exclusively our own creation. How many should I have to "be a contender"?

I think that would be impossible to answer. It totally depends on your market and you competition. It may be one, it might be 100. How many do your competitors have? Are you targeting the high end, high dollar segment of your market? Or are you looking to sell large quantities of a lower dollar item? Gotta know your market to know the answer to this question.

[Alpha Mind]

(08-27-2012 01:54 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

Alpha: I agree 100%, but right now we've just got four products for our market. All of them are exclusively our own creation. How many should I have to "be a contender"?

Don't worry about "being a contender," via number of products/widgets.

Focus on dominating the markets you're already in.

[alecks]

so what your saying is basically,find a product/service in a niche market...just like most entrepreneurs?

[Vacancier Permanent]

Good topic guys.
I've been in the IM/affiliate game for over 4 years promoting a high end membership which made me good money in the process. While the commissions are fat ($1k and as high as $3250/sale) and the company behind it is rock solid, it is the product that is the backbone and foundation of it all. I really LOVE using the product myself (a lifetime vacation membership), which has already saved me at least 9k in only 2 usages so far. However, this whole experience of being an affiliate for a high end product made me open my eyes to the world of making money online and beyond and in the process has made me open to exploring new options and avenues.

While I'm still going to be doing my current business for years to come, I'm also always looking for new ideas, new ways to make money. I'm going to fly to Hong Kong next week and then onto China for business to see what I can get going there. I want to eventually be developing my own product and get into E-commerce and eventually import-export.

Affiliate marketing is a good way for people to start. Some key things I've learned along the way in these 4+ years of being involved in it:

a) I would not waste my time being an affiliate for a low end product/service and would focus exclusively on high end products which nets met at the ver least 500 but preferably 1k or even better 2k+ per sale. I learned it the hard way that it takes the same effort, time and resources selling a 10$ item than it does a 2k-3k item. I mean you still have to run your ads, regardless of what product or service you're selling. Sure the copy and the sales funnel may not be the same for a 10$ item than a 2-3 or 5k item but at the end of the day, while all things being equal, I'd much rather spend the time and $ to promote something that's going to make me 1-2k+/sale VS 10-20$. Who wouldn't in their right mind? Really a no brainer.

b) Treat it as a real business and not as a hobby. One of my first major mistakes was to take it easy when I was making good money and got complacent and as a result, the biz almost went down. Treat it seriously and it can treat you REAL good. Treat it as a hobby at your own risks and perils.

c) For high end products, I found offline to be quite effective. That is running full page ads in targeted magazines. Yes a bigger budget is required for that compared to most online marketing but when you're selling higher end products/services, I found offline people being more responsive than online folks. Alfa, have you tried offline marketing? and what has been your experience marketing offline vs online specially for high end products with high margins?

d) I learned that no matter how great a product is, as long as it is not YOUR product, you are not in control and it takes just one thing for your biz to go south. When the company raises or lowers prices, it will affect drastically your business. When the company changes their product lines or discontinues one, it will affect your business and your profitability. Ultimately, you want to be the one making those critical decisions and be in control. And that's what having your own product(s) allows you to have.

This is why I'm more and more leaning towards getting into E-commerce and developing my own product(s). And this is what the main goal of my up coming trip to China will be all about. Has anyone in here gone to China and started a successful business? Either E-commerce? Sourcing? Consulting? Importing/Exporting? Would love to hear about your experiences guys!

[ColSpanker]

(08-27-2012 04:32 PM)Alpha Mind Wrote:  

(08-27-2012 01:54 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

Alpha: I agree 100%, but right now we've just got four products for our market. All of them are exclusively our own creation. How many should I have to "be a contender"?

Don't worry about "being a contender," via number of products/widgets.

Focus on dominating the markets you're already in.

It's been a hard, up hill battle for my company and we only have one serious competitor in our little niche market. The difference is that the product which accounts for half of our sales doesn't even rank at %0.1 for our competition. If we were able to run them out of the game, we'd have a very good cash flow. But they got there first and have no intention of leaving. Save acts of controlled violence, I don't see how to get them to sue for peace.
And there is the problem of a distributor whom I call "The 800 pound gorilla" who controls most of the flow to our retailers. I can't get these pricks to even return my phone calls. This forces me to use smaller distributors.
Our new product, which we should be releasing soon, will be in an area uncontrolled by anyone. My only worry is, should it be successful, some Chinese outfit will reverse engineer the product.

[alphascout]

Does anyone know what the trick is for backlinking post google penguin update?

From what i've read, you need to make a sort of wheel with different free blogs around your keywords where you post updates to and then use the old backlinking/mass backlinking methods on the free blogs but not on your main site (using automated software or outsourcing it). also the shape shouldent be a wheel really but instead randomized. so say, the spokes are connected to each other in a random pattern rather than in a wheel formation, with each spoke going for the site you are trying to promote.

no clue if this actually works, havent tested this method yet, just a synthesys of what i've read/

Anyone with any recent experience ranking difficult keywords?

[Alpha Mind]

(08-28-2012 01:12 AM)alphascout Wrote:  

Does anyone know what the trick is for backlinking post google penguin update?

From what i've read, you need to make a sort of wheel with different free blogs around your keywords where you post updates to and then use the old backlinking/mass backlinking methods on the free blogs but not on your main site (using automated software or outsourcing it). also the shape shouldent be a wheel really but instead randomized. so say, the spokes are connected to each other in a random pattern rather than in a wheel formation, with each spoke going for the site you are trying to promote.

no clue if this actually works, havent tested this method yet, just a synthesys of what i've read/

Anyone with any recent experience ranking difficult keywords?

When touching money site with links, don't spin, don't scheme, don't bullshit the algo.

Quality and relevance > Quantity.

We didn't get hit by the penguin update, because we've been utilizing the correct strategy all along. And yes, that is me bragging, because I'm still #1 for _______________.....post-penguin.

What you speak of is called tiered linking--which is the idea that, essentially, you setup a network of blogs, related to your website, that you own, and pump them up with garbage links.

More than likely, this practice will be hit soon.

Also, you don't want a wheel, you want a randomized process. This flow chart is a poor example, but you get the idea.



From there, you pump them up via software @ the 2nd tier. Does it work? Yes, well enough for competitive keywords, if your network is big enough.

Let's be real...Google is not going to rank a 50 page website for "cheap (state) insurance" anymore because you own the link game.

If you want to try and trick the algo, head over to http://www.blackhatworld.com/ or http://www.wickedfire.com/. Those are both high-level "black hat: forums. There are good people there, but consistency--as in life--always trumps shortcuts.

The best SEO advice I can give is do SEO for a business, not some short-term gain/game, that may cover a few weeks in Europe.

Develop your brand, and dominate your market.

[Alpha Mind]

(08-27-2012 04:45 PM)alecks Wrote:  

so what your saying is basically,find a product/service in a niche market...just like most entrepreneurs?

Essentially, yes.

The catch? You have to learn to play the online game.

The variables are infinite...the important thing is to chunk down and play to your own strengths.

What are you an expert on?

[Kitsune]

(08-28-2012 01:12 AM)alphascout Wrote:  

Does anyone know what the trick is for backlinking post google penguin update?

From what i've read, you need to make a sort of wheel with different free blogs around your keywords where you post updates to and then use the old backlinking/mass backlinking methods on the free blogs but not on your main site (using automated software or outsourcing it). also the shape shouldent be a wheel really but instead randomized. so say, the spokes are connected to each other in a random pattern rather than in a wheel formation, with each spoke going for the site you are trying to promote.

no clue if this actually works, havent tested this method yet, just a synthesys of what i've read/

Anyone with any recent experience ranking difficult keywords?

Don't make linkwheels. They lost their effectiveness some time ago.

I wouldn't even worry about effectiveness post-penguin for now, because google is apparently going to institute new updates again soon.

As far as backlinking, I'm moving most of my work into social media. At the moment, I've got a massive network of various social media accounts which I'll use to 'get a buzz' going.

As for backlinking itself, the key thing about the latest update is that it hammered over-optimised backlinking texts, so stop using keywords for everything. Use a lot of "click here" and url's for backlinks.

My general advice would be stop doing what you can read average internet marketers doing. If the advice is to use scrapebox and blog comment, don't do that. If the advice is to build tiered linking systems (Not a bad idea) make sure you aren't doing it in the same way that a guy new to warrior forum is; i.e. don't have empty web 2.0 sites pointing to each other, so on and so forth.

[alphascout]

I would love to build a brand/business, but for that i need traffic. to get the traffic i need to know how to do effective SEO. The long goal is to build a bunch of SEO keyword sites, and then eventually link them to a branded site. I'm thinking of constructing a kind of like a tree like the following, with the ultimate goal of building a brand around various related products. I'm starting with low hanging fruit/easy keywords with google adwords, then moving up to harder keywords and affiliation, then to very hard keywords or a branded site and dropship agreements. At least that's my plan.

I'll give a step by step example.
I'll use the hypothetical example of auto insurance.
Note the Transition of Monitization Strategy as the network of sites grow.

My strategy:

1-Try to get to #1 for [Easy Sub-Keywords (abbreviated ESK) with very low competition, i.e. few strong sites in the top 10 yet gets some exact match traffic. Use the Blog Randomized Strategy + syndication of unique content on the blogs (very short articles) + random tiered linking. Use fiverr gigs on the blogs pointing to my ESK site.

For example, an Easy Sub-Keyword (ESK): "All Risk Insurance"

Monetization strategy: Set up Google adwords, see what types of ads people click on/make a bit of $. (expected profit: $1-$100/month)



2- After growing one ESK site, start creating several other related ESK keyword sites and do the exact same strategy. The keywords I try to dominate should all point to similar related products that a store/brand could conceivably carry in the future. (i.e. products a future estore' could have)

Example, Vermont Collision auto insurance, etc... (think of 10 other ESK keywords, these can be geographic, technical terms, whatever as long as they are low competition. i.e. low hanging fruit)

Monetization: Set up Google adsense on all the sites, look for patterns between the sites to see if any sites in particular are getting
alot of clicks through adsense. (expected profit: $50 to a thousand a month)



3-Link all my ESK sites to a Medium Keyword Site (MKS). This MKS should get a decent amount of exact searches (say 20k-100k). Try to get the MKSsite to a decent ranking on google.

For example, "temporary car insurance"

Monetization: Seek out affiliate agreements on CJ or other sites, get affiliate agreements for the MKS along with google adwords, to get a higher % of profits from sales (expected profit: a thousand a month to a few thousand)



4-Do the same thing for various related MKS, say 10.

monetization: same as step 4. (expected profit: a few thousand to 10k a month, depending on the amount of MKS dominated)



5-Create a Brand Site, link all the MKS sites to the Brand site.

monetization: Use affiliate/privately negotiation deal on brand site. (potential profit: 5k+ to ?)



6-Use Brand Site (and all the traffic its getting and sales it is leading to) to negotiate actual deals with real fledgling businesses in the industry for distribution of whatever product i'm advertising. Or alternately create my own products, depending on the niche.

For example, find an auto insurance company that badly needs to the traffic (or several) or really wants to grow. Try to negotiate a deal with them for a high % of profits/equity in exchange for merging traffic with your BRAND SITE (the traffic should be considerable at this point).



7?- Scale this up to absolutely huge insanely competitive keywords like "auto insurance" /deals with huge companies



8?-use cash/equity from Ecommerce/SEO buisness to diversify, purchasing standard businesses/property



In summary, the point is to combine SEO and Brand Building/Monetization Strategies together long term, starting with SEO and transititioning/scaling into traditional business. obviously this is a long term strategy, say 2-5 years. no clue if this will work, all hypothetical at this point. I just got into SEO last month but this is my official plan as of now. input appreciated

[alphascout]

Having thought about it, I will vary how I rank ESK sites to drastically lower the risk of being destroyed by a future google update that targets the specific method i happen to have used.
So I will vary my strategy using different fiverr gigs on various sites, different linking strategies, even in some cases buying links from high PR sites, etc...

the last thing i would want is to build a house of card of sites on quicksand.

[Alpha Mind]

(08-28-2012 04:39 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

(08-28-2012 01:12 AM)alphascout Wrote:  

Does anyone know what the trick is for backlinking post google penguin update?

From what i've read, you need to make a sort of wheel with different free blogs around your keywords where you post updates to and then use the old backlinking/mass backlinking methods on the free blogs but not on your main site (using automated software or outsourcing it). also the shape shouldent be a wheel really but instead randomized. so say, the spokes are connected to each other in a random pattern rather than in a wheel formation, with each spoke going for the site you are trying to promote.

no clue if this actually works, havent tested this method yet, just a synthesys of what i've read/

Anyone with any recent experience ranking difficult keywords?

Don't make linkwheels. They lost their effectiveness some time ago.

I wouldn't even worry about effectiveness post-penguin for now, because google is apparently going to institute new updates again soon.

As far as backlinking, I'm moving most of my work into social media. At the moment, I've got a massive network of various social media accounts which I'll use to 'get a buzz' going.

As for backlinking itself, the key thing about the latest update is that it hammered over-optimised backlinking texts, so stop using keywords for everything. Use a lot of "click here" and url's for backlinks.

My general advice would be stop doing what you can read average internet marketers doing. If the advice is to use scrapebox and blog comment, don't do that. If the advice is to build tiered linking systems (Not a bad idea) make sure you aren't doing it in the same way that a guy new to warrior forum is; i.e. don't have empty web 2.0 sites pointing to each other, so on and so forth.

Google is always updating and refreshing; you only hear about it when a large number of people get hit.

Social buzz is good, but IMHO it's less than 10% important ranking signals.

Also, link wheels still work, just don't do it to your own website. Having a link wheel with a broken spoke (not all connected) as a tier 2 to a super-blog works well, for now.

[IainMuirs]

My backlinking strategy is to build link pyramids. Three tiers. Tier 1 is 5 trusted web 20s (blogs, hub pages, video sites, document sharing, picture sites etc), tier 2 is 25 web 20s (similar to above) and tier 3 is the spammiest bunch of backlinks you can find. Tier 3 points to tier 2, which in turn points to tier 1 and tier 1 sites point to my money site. The link juice passes through all tiers and is passed on to my money site. Also has the benefit of building a few layers of protection around my money site, at worst it will be my tier 1s that will be penalised. I build multiple pyramids and keep building until I get my site ranked to where I want it.

Tier 1 properties I build by hand, high quality unique content (it can be spun just make sure it reads well), videos, images. Tier 2 can be less good, spun content, built by software or outsourced, tier 3 all automated.

[Alpha Mind]

(09-01-2012 07:43 PM)IainMuirs Wrote:  

My backlinking strategy is to build link pyramids. Three tiers. Tier 1 is 5 trusted web 20s (blogs, hub pages, video sites, document sharing, picture sites etc), tier 2 is 25 web 20s (similar to above) and tier 3 is the spammiest bunch of backlinks you can find. Tier 3 points to tier 2, which in turn points to tier 1 and tier 1 sites point to my money site. The link juice passes through all tiers and is passed on to my money site. Also has the benefit of building a few layers of protection around my money site, at worst it will be my tier 1s that will be penalised. I build multiple pyramids and keep building until I get my site ranked to where I want it.

Tier 1 properties I build by hand, high quality unique content (it can be spun just make sure it reads well), videos, images. Tier 2 can be less good, spun content, built by software or outsourced, tier 3 all automated.

Yep, this works exceptionally well.

[Alpha Mind]

I'm currently testing out a service called VitaRank. It provides "social signals" and according to reviews, works very well.

Will report back with updates and any ranking changes.

[IainMuirs]

Yeah I've come across VitaRank, considered using it too. Let me know how it works.

[ColSpanker]

Could you give an example of what tier 3 might be? I'd be interesting in hearing about tiers 1 and 2 as well.

(09-01-2012 07:43 PM)IainMuirs Wrote:  

My backlinking strategy is to build link pyramids. Three tiers. Tier 1 is 5 trusted web 20s (blogs, hub pages, video sites, document sharing, picture sites etc), tier 2 is 25 web 20s (similar to above) and tier 3 is the spammiest bunch of backlinks you can find. Tier 3 points to tier 2, which in turn points to tier 1 and tier 1 sites point to my money site. The link juice passes through all tiers and is passed on to my money site. Also has the benefit of building a few layers of protection around my money site, at worst it will be my tier 1s that will be penalised. I build multiple pyramids and keep building until I get my site ranked to where I want it.

Tier 1 properties I build by hand, high quality unique content (it can be spun just make sure it reads well), videos, images. Tier 2 can be less good, spun content, built by software or outsourced, tier 3 all automated.

[IainMuirs]

Tier 1 I build by hand and make 5 sites for each pyramid. Each tier 1 pyramid contains trusted sites, i.e. blogs (like Tumbler, Wordpress, Blogger, Live Journal), article directories (EZine, EHow, Article Base etc), video sites (youtube, vimeo, videojug), document sharing sites (scribd, docstoc, google documents), Q&A sites (Yahoo Answers, WikAnswers etc), Social bookmark and social media sites (Facebook, Twitter, Digg, Stumbleupon, Pinterest), Wiki sites etc. You get the picture. Sites that google already trust. You add unique content to these sites, make them look legit, if it's a blog then add a few pages of content and a few posts, chuck some video and pics up.

Tier 2 is similar sites to tier 1 but of a lesser quality, you just spin your tier 1 articles and post them tier 2. Don't need to build these sites up to a high quality.

Tier 3 would be thousands of blog links for example, if you don't have the ability / software to do it you can buy gigs on fiverr for 50,000 blog comments or whatever high QUANTITY links you can find. Quality is not important here.

Tier 3 links to tier 2. Tier 2 to tier 1. Tier 1 to my money site.

Tier 3 boosts the page rank of tier 2, which in turn boosts the page rank of tier 1 which in turn passes on to your money site.

Does that make sense?