[AMO]

Not sure whether to post it here or on lifestyle thread, this is my first post.

So I just moved back to NY after living 8 months abroad in East Asia. I did a semester exchange in Singapore from January-May and then an internship in Hong Kong working in private equities from May-end of July. I've loved every minute of it, especially the women. I also travelled to other countries at least once a month and my top 2 favorites are definitely South Korea and Taiwan. I am back in US now to finish my final year of undergrad.

I've been back in the US for about a week and it just feels different. New York is always fun and I love this country, but I just don't see myself here in the long-run anymore. I have one more year of school and want to move back to Asia right after, preferably to Taipei or Singapore.

So here's my question: how do you move to Asia or what is the best way to do so?

I know there is the teaching route and I know there are people who save money and go there to find a job. I have a couple friends who did that with China and New Zealand. I have a year left of school and want to focus on a)finding a job out in Asia or b)starting my own company and taking it there.

For all the expats living abroad now, any tips or helpful ideas? Any job websites that helped you the most. I've tried JobsDB before but had no luck. Thanks a lot.

[RichieP]

Nice!


Sounds like what you're mainly asking is how to support yourself there. If you've got income sorted, you just sort a visa and accommodation, and book your flight! Income is the obvious question tho, for that there's a number of options:

-get a job there
-earn/save enough working at home to live on while there
-work online as a freelancer - getting started + getting clients is a big effort, but theres plenty you could do - writing, programming, web design, translation, even making telesales calls from a skype account. Using skills you already have is a good idea
-Run an online business - maybe the juiciest option, maybe also the riskiest, realistically expect alot of trial and error (months to years) before you "make it" to the point you can live off it

-Some combo of the above.

Certainly in Taiwan I know that if you're qualified, you can teach english and often choose your own hours. You could do 10-15 hours a week for rent money and then do some freelancing / play around with some online biz ideas in your remaining time. And if you have some savings to last you 3-4 months when you arrive, that gives you that much more time to get on your feet.

I highly recommend the book "Delaying the Real World" especially the section on living + working abroad. Alot of cool ideas for jobs in asia - not just teaching english, but things like proofreading + writing english for companies there (they need native speakers), or modelling + acting (again they need western faces), etc. There are job websites in that book but mainly it's just great for ideas. Most jobs / lucrative gigs will be got thru you hustling and contacting companies directly and networking.

This is basically the situ I'm in - Ive been living in asia , savings running out. Going back in 2 weeks, gonna be freelancing online, possibly doing abit of english tutoring/proofreading on the side, and then turning my eyes to a more exciting online (and hopefully profitable) business idea.

On a side note, please feel free to share some info about Taiwan/Taipei! I've heard good things and really fancy going there, possibly for a few months. Like you, I loved South Korea too.

[WanderingSoul]

In Bangkok I have several friends who teach at legitimate schools. Not your typical TEFL English teachers that make $1,500 a month. One is an art teacher who has an art degree, another is some sort of IT teacher and he also has a bachelors degree. Neither would really be qualified to teach back home, but in Bangkok they make about $3,000 a month.

In Bangkok, you can live really well on that with no kids or wife. You could live pretty well and save $1,000 a month even. They are both in their mid to late twenties. I'm not sure what the potential is to move up and make more money, but it's a pretty sweet gig for living in Bangkok.

Are you white? It seems a lot of schools, though I am not sure about all of them, really want young, white guys as teachers who are native English speakers.

I'm not sure of any resources to find jobs or anything. Every job opening I heard of I heard of from my friends.

[nmmoooreland20]

Why not hit up your contacts from your PE gig in HK?

I did a semester in HK and have been looking for ways to get back there ever since.

[jimukr104]

you must mean international schools? they hire teachers licensed in America.

[RichieP]

(08-22-2012 06:16 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

In Bangkok I have several friends who teach at legitimate schools. Not your typical TEFL English teachers that make $1,500 a month. One is an art teacher who has an art degree, another is some sort of IT teacher and he also has a bachelors degree. Neither would really be qualified to teach back home, but in Bangkok they make about $3,000 a month.

In Bangkok, you can live really well on that with no kids or wife. You could live pretty well and save $1,000 a month even. They are both in their mid to late twenties. I'm not sure what the potential is to move up and make more money, but it's a pretty sweet gig for living in Bangkok.

Are you white? It seems a lot of schools, though I am not sure about all of them, really want young, white guys as teachers who are native English speakers.

I'm not sure of any resources to find jobs or anything. Every job opening I heard of I heard of from my friends.

THATS very cool. You can also do the same thing at some universities in asia. In that book I mentioned, a guy is supporting himself through a fellowship for a research project from his college back home, and also teaching at a university in Indonesia. He just told them he's doing his project and showed them his degree... back home he'd need 5 more years education and a PhD to get a position like that. Soooo much opportunity in Asia.

[w00t]

Make Money Online.

[trey]

What they others have said is all good, but: you had an internship in PE. Why not get a finance job in Singapore? Plenty of time in your last year of school to make yourself desirable to these firms.

Save money in your last year as well because absolutely NOBODY is going to hire you from abroad for some job you found on jobsDB. You need to get to your target city and start meeting people. Expect this campaign to take some time before you land a job - so you'll need some money in the meantime.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(08-22-2012 04:18 PM)AMO Wrote:  

For all the expats living abroad now, any tips or helpful ideas? Any job websites that helped you the most. I've tried JobsDB before but had no luck. Thanks a lot.

This thread needs more Youngmobileglobal.

Or better use of the search function.

Read Youngmobileglobal's Career Leapfrogging Blueprint.
Find it here: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-4156.html

Read this thread too:
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-4156-p...l#pid49978

[garygroundwork]

$3,000 a month plus is at international schools for qualified, experienced teachers

there are other local schools that i dont think u need qualifications for but they only pay like 20,000 baht a month...especially in rural areas

[scotian]

Lots of jobs in the far east for oil and gas professionals, most are very high paying and many of them are tax-free expat gigs, here`s a sample:

http://www.rigzone.com/jobs/countries/re...t_jobs.asp

Most of those are senior positions that would require some education and work experience, if you`re willing to do some studies (say an Associates degree in some type of engineering) and work for a couple of years in the oil biz in your home country, you could be living large in Asia in within 5 years.

I`m not sure if you`re aware of the oil boom currently going on in North Dakota, but you could get your experience up there:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-11227....rth+dakota

[WanderingSoul]

(08-23-2012 04:25 AM)garygroundwork Wrote:  

$3,000 a month plus is at international schools for qualified, experienced teachers

there are other local schools that i dont think u need qualifications for but they only pay like 20,000 baht a month...especially in rural areas

Neither of my friends were experienced, and really not that qualified. One is a tattoo artist with a bachelors in art. He teaches art. The other I believe had no teaching experience either, and he had a bachelors in his IT field. Maybe they both got lucky, as they both teach at the same school, but they would never be qualified to teach back home. I'm no expert in this field, but if they did it, I bet others could somehow as well.

[AMO]

Thanks guys. These are all great tips. You guys have definitely made this easier for me. I will check out all the links posted and that book you mentioned RichieP. I may or may not still pursue finance after graduation, but from what you guys have said, there seems to be an endless amount of opportunities. I am ethnically Persian, but was born and raised in New York City.

@RichieP, glad you liked South Korea. That and Taiwan were definitely my favorite destinations in Asia (so far). If you go, start with Taipei, as there's lots to do in and around the city. The people I found are extremely friendly and the girls are VERY hot. It was the friendliness of the people, the girls and the food that really won me over with this place. It's much more relaxed opposed to Hong Kong and Singapore and great if Mandarin is a language you choose to learn. If you need more info on Taiwan or help planning an itinerary, just PM me.

[BudgetGlobetrotting]

You're stupid not to pursue a career in finance given your profile (granted, I don't know your other experience / undergrad pedigree). But this shouldn't even be a question.

Right now I see it that you can take a) the easy, low road of teaching English or b) busting your ass a bit to get into high finance in Asia.

No brainer, really. Teaching English will ALWAYS be there. for you. No offense to anybody teaching English, but it doesn't take any relevant experience to get there other than a commodity western BA. If you teach English, you're throwing your Equities experience down the hose. 2 years teaching english without a top 20 MBA will make your resume garbage. You'd be dumb not to at least pursue finance opportunities. Yolo. I know how enticing the immediate move back to Asia can be, but your Asian dream will be 100x more sustainable with a pursuit in finance.

Asia (Singapore, EM even..) is on track to be the fucking epicenter of finance, and you're thinking about teaching English without giving it a fair shot? Tell me it isn't so. If nothing else, take a teaching gig and apply for finance jobs 24/7 once you're there. Just. dont. throw. it. all. away.

This, coming from a 2011 finance grad that "studied abroad" in bkk, did big 4 risk advisory in the middle east, now works in a US HF, and plans to move back to Asia in 1.5 years with a proper salary if allowed.

[the_conductor]

(08-25-2012 01:02 AM)BudgetGlobetrotting Wrote:  

You're stupid not to pursue a career in finance given your profile (granted, I don't know your other experience / undergrad pedigree). But this shouldn't even be a question.

Right now I see it that you can take a) the easy, low road of teaching English or b) busting your ass a bit to get into high finance in Asia.

No brainer, really. Teaching English will ALWAYS be there. for you. No offense to anybody teaching English, but it doesn't take any relevant experience to get there other than a commodity western BA. If you teach English, you're throwing your Equities experience down the hose. 2 years teaching english without a top 20 MBA will make your resume garbage. You'd be dumb not to at least pursue finance opportunities. Yolo. I know how enticing the immediate move back to Asia can be, but your Asian dream will be 100x more sustainable with a pursuit in finance.

Asia (Singapore, EM even..) is on track to be the fucking epicenter of finance, and you're thinking about teaching English without giving it a fair shot? Tell me it isn't so. If nothing else, take a teaching gig and apply for finance jobs 24/7 once you're there. Just. dont. throw. it. all. away.

This, coming from a 2011 finance grad that "studied abroad" in bkk, did big 4 risk advisory in the middle east, now works in a US HF, and plans to move back to Asia in 1.5 years with a proper salary if allowed.

Which university did you go to when you studied abroad in bkk?

[AMO]

@BudgetGlobetrotting I never said I would give up on finance just that I would like to check out other options as a fallout. Not really sure I would go the teaching route as I am much more interested in having my own business, potentially. I see your point however with Asia becoming the epicenter of finance. Any tips to get finance offers for after graduation? I'm curious how you landed them after studying abroad in BKK. And yea I've already done some personal networking with contacts over there but I don't like to have all my eggs in one basket. Thanks.

[BudgetGlobetrotting]

I think I came off a little harsh, which wasn't intended. For breaking in, it's more of a numbers/serendipity game than anything when it comes to finding things. Key is, don't be shy. Shoot your resume everywhere. Find a firm that seems interesting online? - send them an email. I got really lucky to get where I am, but nearly everyone I talk to says the same thing. So I think it's a matter of drive and grinding to break in. I think once you're in, it's smoother sailing if you want to stay in the industry.

Have a tight resume/cv, cover letter, and well tailored story. WallStreetOasis is a goldmine in this regard for finance/consulting. If you're not familiar, inhale the forums there in a weekend.

I see where you're coming from with having your own business. I'm of the same mindset near/long term. Sitting in front of excel/sql server for 9 hours a day sucks. I have my own side projects but they're not sustainable yet for the lifestyle I want.

But if possible, I'd urge you to keep grinding with both your own entrepreneurial ideas as well as trying to take the more douchey route into corporate 9-5ing. The half life on finance experience is very quick, so might as well try that route now. Finance salaries are good and having a comfortable financial position will allow you the lifestyle/entre opportunities that you may not have otherwise. Just my .02.

(08-25-2012 04:55 PM)AMO Wrote:  

@BudgetGlobetrotting I never said I would give up on finance just that I would like to check out other options as a fallout. Not really sure I would go the teaching route as I am much more interested in having my own business, potentially. I see your point however with Asia becoming the epicenter of finance. Any tips to get finance offers for after graduation? I'm curious how you landed them after studying abroad in BKK. And yea I've already done some personal networking with contacts over there but I don't like to have all my eggs in one basket. Thanks.

[AMO]

Thanks man. Will def keep all that in mind.

[Travel]

Malaysia has 90 visa travel for most western countries. Not the best place to meet women, but a great place to stay if you need to get work done and need to decide where to go next. I.e. you have to leave Thailand, go to Kula Lumpur and decide on your next place, Vietnam, Camboida, Japan, etc...

Also KL is very modern and just as cheap as Thailand.

[Il Bersagliere]

KL sounds ok...but the girls.

[Suits]

(01-26-2018 02:10 AM)Il Bersagliere Wrote:  

KL sounds ok...but the girls.

I have an against the grain opinion on the subject.

I've spent enough time in KL to know where I stand with the local women.

While the average women is not attractive at all, there is an extreme shortage of attractive men as well.

Compared to my results in mainland China, I do much better in KL, both in my meet/bang ratio and in the quality of women I bang.

Although it's harder to get a girl to show up to a meet-up off online dating websites, I bang nearly every woman I meet. There's real demand for men who are interesting and have game.

I had the best sex of my life the first time I came to KL and stayed a month. I've never had my dick sucked so much, so well and so enthusiastically. Even with women that would have been out of my league (looks wise) everywhere else I've lived.

There are a lot of intelligent and educated women in Malaysia that have a hard time meeting men on their level intellectually.

If I was wife hunting, KL is probably where I would go first.

[worldtraveler3]

I actually worked in finance in HK, (M&A and corporate finance). These days people usually hire someone they dont know who have Asia experience. So your best bet is networking in the States.

Salary is not so great if you aren't one of the senior management guys, and rent can be very expensive. I would stay in NYC if I were you, at least for the next 5 years.
While Asia is better in terms of women, it ain't worth it if you are coming here to teach english. Plenty of fish in NYC as well, considering its one of the top day gaming destinations in the world. The urge to move to green pastures and easy women might be strong, and the hype of Asia is somewhat exaggerated on the form, but it ain't the end of the world if you stay put in NYC.

[jabba]

I see many people grappling with this question over the years. I thought there's a magic number people have in their heads.

Some people opt for teaching, because it's an easy choice. However, if that wasn't related to your studies, then you're undercutting your talent and not using its fullest potential. This won't look good on your resume / CV. If you go nomad, you want to keep your skills relevant. Last thing you want is a black hole in your resume and explain you had to find yourself.

You're a (soon to be) university graduate. You have valid professional / STEM / Math skills. I only care about people with actual university degrees.

Presuming you work in finance, you would earn a good salary and be able save money.

If you're sacrificing your professional goals for living in anywhere (but the West) for 3 - 5 years, what's the bare minimum you would be willing to accept per month, working full-time for a company who gave all the freedom to live anywhere in the world?

You would do meaningful work related to your education but not make Western salaries.

The trade-offs are clear:

Decisions
A - Stay home, earn good salary, social life is sub-optimal.
B - Live anywhere, earn smaller salary, social life is spectacular.

Goals
A - Money
B - Social Life

Sacrifice
A - Financial Cost
B - Opportunity Cost

You're young, energetic and intelligent.

What's the monthly salary to be committed to B?

[Pointer]

IMO teaching is the easiest and fastest way to move. It also allows a lot of free time but if your degree is not aligned with that area then it's going to have a huge opportunity cost.

If you want to live well abroad and have all the comforts you get back home you need to find a job in the US that will send you to Asia. Alternatively, you move there and grind your way to a decent job in your field.

I find that the more languages you speak, the easier it is to find a job abroad.

[Suits]

(01-26-2018 03:22 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  

Salary is not so great if you aren't one of the senior management guys, and rent can be very expensive. I would stay in NYC if I were you, at least for the next 5 years.
While Asia is better in terms of women, it ain't worth it if you are coming here to teach english.

...the hype of Asia is somewhat exaggerated on the forum...

Yes, if you just want to have an experience for a year or two, you can take any job available to you in Asia, but as for long term lifestyle, you're going to have to be really competitive to live well.

I'm in the education industry myself and unless you are a certified teacher or live very cheap, it's very rare for a teacher to really come out ahead. I know a number of guys who have done very well by saving a bunch of money over ten years or so (not millions, though) by living in the provided accommodations at an university or high school (usually nothing better than a shoddy on-campus dorm room) and then working a ton of private part-time work in addition to their regular daytime work (which generally provides only a meager salary) in a third tier city where creating lasting and meaningful relationships is a real challenge and generally impossible to seriously pursue.

This is a little better for lifestyle than working the oilfields, but it also pays far, far less and means living in a country where people generally view you as a inferior life form.

I've actually be contemplating leaving Beijing by the end of this year because cost of living has been continually rising faster than wages since I first came here in 2006 and it's becoming untenable.

In 2007, I remember renting a studio in for $160 USD per month and earning 150RMB per hour as an inexperienced, useless teacher who was probably worse than no teacher at all.

As of 2018, a studio in the same part of the city costs $1000 USD per month and I can get part-time teaching hours as a highly experienced, innovative teacher who has literally invented new educational technology for rarely more than 300RMB per hour.

So, the cost of housing has gone up 666% and the hourly part-time wage for an experience, highly skilled teacher has gone up 150%. Not a great deal. I earn a bit better because teaching by the hour is not my primary means of income (although I still do some for product testing purposes), but even with some consulting gigs (which pays worse per hour, but makes it easier to maximize my time), inflation is growing far faster than my income.

There are other cities where it is a better deal, but generally working for others fulltime (which I don't do) offers an even worse time/money equation. I know an American girl working for a training center who has terrible hours, earns about $12,000 USD per month and shares a room with 5 other girls in the school provided accommodation.

Hong Kong has become far more expensive for everyone ever since mainland investment into housing became a big thing after the turn over. Suffice to say, standard of living has become far more expensive for everyone in HK ever since 1997 and it continue to get worse. The HK'ers name for mainlanders is "locusts." Beijing has no problem with mainlanders benefitting at the expense of HK'ers, so this trend is certain to continue.

If I was starting out these days, I would go to either Malaysia or Vietnam. I don't believe either of these are a place to be for those pursuing a career in finance.