[DonovanVC]

I was wondering if I could get some advice about working out, maintaining consistency in the gym and dealing with injury.

Was lifting a lot of weights last year, put on some great gains in about 5 months. Probably overworked myself though, ended up getting forearm/wrist tendinitis in February. Think I injured that area of my right arm from alot of dips and push ups.

Got a cortisone shot, it went away and I was back a few weeks later. Then seems I reaggravated the area again in June. Got another cortisone shot, but it hasn't been quite as effective. Its August now and I still feel pain (but not as much) and have mostly rested the area the last few weeks. Its getting better but seems incredibly slowly.

Spoke with the doc who administered the shot who said I need to restrengthen the area, focus on lighter weights for awhile. Literally using 3-5 pound dumbells right now for most of my exercises.

Didn't have any pain from my chest/shoulder exercises with such low weights but did feel some inflammation from back/biceps day.

Thinking about shutting it down for another couple of weeks and doing alot of stretches and just focusing on legs for now.

It sucks cuz you got to be so consistent in the gym to see results and time off like this is really stalling my gains.

[MikeCF]

Eat more berries and vegetables. Start blending kale into your protein shakes. (Organic, if you can afford it.)

Inflammation is caused by too much acid in the body. You need more alkaline foods.

Eat berries and vegetables and your inflammation will go down.

Throw in 1-2 cups of organic frozen blueberries and 2-3 leaves from kale stalks (remove the stems) into your protein shake.

Bake kale chips.

Get a juicer.

You should have greens or berries with EVERY meal.

Trader Joe's has good deals on frozen organic blueberries. Costo sells huge bags or organic frozen blackberries and raspberries.

Keep squatting.

[UgSlayer]

glucosamine and rest the joints that are bothering you. Like Mike said, you can still do squats and other leg work.

When you get back to lifting, test yourself with low weight high reps. If you still get sore from lifting, it's not time to come back yet.

It's better to be a couple weeks or even a month out of lifting then really fucking something up and be out for much longer.

[peterthephoenix]

What part of your chest/shoulder is it? If you've damaged your rotator cuff it's gonna take a while to heal. Check these rotator cuff exercises.

Cortisone shots only mask the inflammation. They do nothing to heal the injury.

Also, try to avoid wheat/gluten as it tends to cause inflammation.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

What I would tell a patient, from a conventional medicine perspective:

- Take a five day course of ibuprofen 400mg three times a day for 5 days
- Take a five day course of paracetamol 1g three times a day for 5 days with the ibuprofen
The meds will tone down the inflammatory process, reduce the pain-inflammation feedback cycle, and give your arm a chance to get some real healing going on
- While taking the meds, wear a wrist splint. As long as you feel pain in the wrist, wear the splint.
- Do not use the wrist for exercise while taking the meds
- Make an appointment for a physiotherapist for just after the completion of your meds; some people do well on physiotherapy
- If your job involves a lot of typing or use of your hands, see an occupational therapist to train you how to use your wrist more effectively while working so as to not induce inflammation
- After a few sessions of physio start exercising using the wrist again, but with low weight barbells or dumbbells to start off with. Focus on technique, learn to move weights with a straight wrist.

Most likely causes of your condition:
- Most likely a partial tear of one of your forearm muscles, if you want you can ask for a sonar to confirm this
- If not that, a partial tear of one of your tendons causing tendonitis, can be checked with a sonar
- If not that, a partial tear of one of your ligaments, ligaments take forever to heal. Often possible to see these on sonar.
- If not that, a pressure crack of your forearm bones or your wrist. Often invisible on xrays, the only surefire way to check for these is with an MRI scan. They take forever to heal, about 6 month.

All of these should resolve with time and with common sense. Cortisol will reduce the pain dramatically but cortisol also inhibits tissue regeneration, every time you go to a doctor for a cortisol shot you probably delay the healing process.

[Hades]

I'm hesitant to suggest either of these, since a lot of lifters are very bad and never get injured, but you might want to have someone help you out with lifting form. The gym I went to had a coach that helped people out whenever he got off work, and he was pretty reputable. You could also post your workout because there might be something you're training too much or not training at all, either of which can cause injuries.

I'm still free to speculate, so I would also guess that your "back-biceps" day and "chest-shoulders" day is part of a three day split, and there's probably some upper body overtraining (I would guess front chain), so even if you're into aesthetic lifting, you should probably hit up starting strength and get on a balanced program. Deadlift, bench, overhead press, and squats when done on Mark Rippetoe's program is a safe way to train and still make gains.

Basically a good way to mess up your shoulders is do weighted dips and bench press without training the standing overhead press or the handstand pushup.

Other than that everyone else pretty much covered what you ought to do. The general rule when injured is "keep lifting, but strengthen whatever is not injured".

[UgSlayer]

(08-13-2012 08:59 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I'm hesitant to suggest either of these, since a lot of lifters are very bad and never get injured, but you might want to have someone help you out with lifting form. The gym I went to had a coach that helped people out whenever he got off work, and he was pretty reputable. You could also post your workout because there might be something you're training too much or not training at all, either of which can cause injuries.

I'm still free to speculate, so I would also guess that your "back-biceps" day and "chest-shoulders" day is part of a three day split, and there's probably some upper body overtraining (I would guess front chain), so even if you're into aesthetic lifting, you should probably hit up starting strength and get on a balanced program. Deadlift, bench, overhead press, and squats when done on Mark Rippetoe's program is a safe way to train and still make gains.

Basically a good way to mess up your shoulders is do weighted dips and bench press without training the standing overhead press or the handstand pushup.

Other than that everyone else pretty much covered what you ought to do. The general rule when injured is "keep lifting, but strengthen whatever is not injured".

Never heard this before. I usually do seated military press. But I do have issues with my rotator cuffs/elbows. I always thought it was from wrestling/jiu jitsu. Will give it a try.

Care to explain why the standing press or handstand pushups instead of the seated press, though? Thanks in advace.

[DonovanVC]

Thanks for all the advice.

I went and got the blueberries!

I actually got an ultrasound done on the forearm/wrist, they told me a lot of fluid had built up in the wrist area.

Typing at work has caused pain for sure, but I have gotten myself the NewGrip wrist support, which have worked pretty well.

Unfortunately I will not be able to hit up a physiotherapist right now since I am preparing to move to HK in 2 weeks.

Hades - I'm a little hesitant to mix in more than one major leg exercise into the same week, i.e. doing more than one of leg press, squats or deadlift in the same week. I feel like I might be a bit injury prone, had some minor knee issues about 6 years ago from a lot of running.

[Giovonny]

Sometimes rest is the only thing that will fix these injuries.

[Hades]

(08-13-2012 10:34 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

(08-13-2012 08:59 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I'm hesitant to suggest either of these, since a lot of lifters are very bad and never get injured, but you might want to have someone help you out with lifting form. The gym I went to had a coach that helped people out whenever he got off work, and he was pretty reputable. You could also post your workout because there might be something you're training too much or not training at all, either of which can cause injuries.

I'm still free to speculate, so I would also guess that your "back-biceps" day and "chest-shoulders" day is part of a three day split, and there's probably some upper body overtraining (I would guess front chain), so even if you're into aesthetic lifting, you should probably hit up starting strength and get on a balanced program. Deadlift, bench, overhead press, and squats when done on Mark Rippetoe's program is a safe way to train and still make gains.

Basically a good way to mess up your shoulders is do weighted dips and bench press without training the standing overhead press or the handstand pushup.

Other than that everyone else pretty much covered what you ought to do. The general rule when injured is "keep lifting, but strengthen whatever is not injured".

Never heard this before. I usually do seated military press. But I do have issues with my rotator cuffs/elbows. I always thought it was from wrestling/jiu jitsu. Will give it a try.

Care to explain why the standing press or handstand pushups instead of the seated press, though? Thanks in advace.

Not really sure why, but seated presses just aren't my thing. When I tried out the standing press I had no back pain, so I'm sticking with that.

Now with good form you can surely do a seated overhead press with no issue, but the bar shouldn't go behind your head, and your elbows should not be splayed outwards considerably. When the elbows are nigh-parallel with the chest, the rotor cuffs are vulnerable to tears. It's more useful to protect the cuffs while pressing so you can correct upper body strength imbalances from too much bench pressing. What a lot of people don't understand is that long-term damage to the rotor cuffs is oftentimes a result of muscle imbalances, which can be prevented by overhead pressing.

To avoid cuff tears make sure the elbows are only a bit more than chest width apart when pressing. I get a lot of shit in the gym because it's not as pretty to overhead press like that (since it looks very noobish and like I'm trying hard to press weight I can't), but my main goal is to not get injured.

Whenever I try to handstand pushup I go from the headstand position upwards, like in this pic. Note the elbows.


Here's a very good article from T-nation that explains the benefits of the overhead press better than I do. The author explains the bench press/injury dynamic.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_arti...r_press_up

Now if you have elbow and rotor cuff issues presently, I'd cautiously recommend training in crow stands, then headstands, then handstands (all for 30 second intervals, maybe four intervals). Loading your shoulders and elbows with weight is the best way to increase joint stability. I'm not sure where you're at now with training (I'd suppose pretty far along if you're into martial arts), but static holds might be worth mastering first. Steven Low's "Overcoming Gravity" has an excellent section on preventing and treating injuries.

[UgSlayer]

(08-14-2012 12:44 AM)Hades Wrote:  

(08-13-2012 10:34 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

(08-13-2012 08:59 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I'm hesitant to suggest either of these, since a lot of lifters are very bad and never get injured, but you might want to have someone help you out with lifting form. The gym I went to had a coach that helped people out whenever he got off work, and he was pretty reputable. You could also post your workout because there might be something you're training too much or not training at all, either of which can cause injuries.

I'm still free to speculate, so I would also guess that your "back-biceps" day and "chest-shoulders" day is part of a three day split, and there's probably some upper body overtraining (I would guess front chain), so even if you're into aesthetic lifting, you should probably hit up starting strength and get on a balanced program. Deadlift, bench, overhead press, and squats when done on Mark Rippetoe's program is a safe way to train and still make gains.

Basically a good way to mess up your shoulders is do weighted dips and bench press without training the standing overhead press or the handstand pushup.

Other than that everyone else pretty much covered what you ought to do. The general rule when injured is "keep lifting, but strengthen whatever is not injured".

Never heard this before. I usually do seated military press. But I do have issues with my rotator cuffs/elbows. I always thought it was from wrestling/jiu jitsu. Will give it a try.

Care to explain why the standing press or handstand pushups instead of the seated press, though? Thanks in advace.

Not really sure why, but seated presses just aren't my thing. When I tried out the standing press I had no back pain, so I'm sticking with that.

Now with good form you can surely do a seated overhead press with no issue, but the bar shouldn't go behind your head, and your elbows should not be splayed outwards considerably. When the elbows are nigh-parallel with the chest, the rotor cuffs are vulnerable to tears. It's more useful to protect the cuffs while pressing so you can correct upper body strength imbalances from too much bench pressing. What a lot of people don't understand is that long-term damage to the rotor cuffs is oftentimes a result of muscle imbalances, which can be prevented by overhead pressing.

To avoid cuff tears make sure the elbows are only a bit more than chest width apart when pressing. I get a lot of shit in the gym because it's not as pretty to overhead press like that (since it looks very noobish and like I'm trying hard to press weight I can't), but my main goal is to not get injured.

Whenever I try to handstand pushup I go from the headstand position upwards, like in this pic. Note the elbows.


Here's a very good article from T-nation that explains the benefits of the overhead press better than I do. The author explains the bench press/injury dynamic.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_arti...r_press_up

Thanks for the information and the link. That video of Serge Redding was impressive. The guy was a juggernaut.

[Duke Castile]

I'll tell you what has been my go to miracle worker. ICE. The first 48 to 72 hours are critical. Put ice on an injury immediately. Keep the ice on for no more than 15-20 minutes (otherwise it will actually INCREASE inflammation and be counter productive). Do this once every hour on the hour (like after practice while watching TV or hanging out at home). The more you can do this in the first two days the better. It can make what might normally be a BAD injury that can keep you out of action into something of a minor irritant and a mild injury into something that is gone after one or two days. I swear by it.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(08-13-2012 10:46 PM)DonovanVC Wrote:  

I actually got an ultrasound done on the forearm/wrist, they told me a lot of fluid had built up in the wrist area.

Sounds like a joint effusion (assuming you don't have something like rheumatoid arthritis or other arthritic disease). Basically something tore or cracked, and now the wrist joint is swimming in inflammation triggered by the injury. My advice on its management still stands: time, gentle exercise and common sense are your biggest allies for this injury. Keep your hand elevated as much as possible to allow gravity to help with drainage, keep the wrist straight to encourage circulation.

An orthopaedic surgeon may be able to drain the fluid or inject cortisione directly into the joint, but that I'd say is a last resort.

[xsplat]

I've got a related question. I started pounding a boxers heavy bag a week or two ago. I can't hit it full strength without spraining the wrist a bit, and bruising the knuckles, even with a pressure bandage and gloves.

I figure that a constant mild sprain and bruised knuckles are a good thing, as that should help build up the bones, muscles, tendons, and ligaments. I've heard that concussions to the bone actually make them more dense, so thats part of the reason some old Chinese dudes smash on hunks of wood all day long.

I seem to have figured out the balance, and don't sprain too much. Feels mostly better in a day or two if I ease up. Just want to know if anyone knows anything about boxing with a very mild sprain. Fine?

[MikeCF]

^^^ You are hurting your wrist because you aren't keeping a straight line between your knuckles and forearm. This is causing your wrist to "fold" when you punch the bag.

Go on YouTube and learn how to wrap your hands. (You are probably doing it improperly.)

That will make a huge difference and end your wrist issues.

[Giovonny]

(08-14-2012 01:14 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

ICE

Ice is the athletes best friend. His other great friends are rest and nutrition.

(08-14-2012 12:32 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

You are hurting your wrist because you aren't keeping a straight line between your knuckles and forearm.

Also, don't hit the bag so hard when you are sore. Focus on speed over power sometimes.

[xsplat]

Ya, I know about keeping the wrists straight. The co-ordination is coming along. Slowly. Still though, even with a well positioned punch I have to reign in the blow. Maybe it's the thin wrists - hoping they'll be able to take more punishment over time. Is that what happens? I can encircle my wrist inside my thumb and forefinger.

About speed, that's what seems to cause the most concussion. To ease that I slow the punch down a bit but put more follow through into it, like a fast shove. Is that a thing? Though I think I know what you mean about a fast punch that doesn't swing the bag around much - like a pulled punch. What's that used for? To get a blow in before the guy can defend it?

Ok, I'll check out wrapping. Also I've discovered elbows. Slowly discovering that I have feet. Should probably take some time and take a course at university of youtube to learn more about that thing.

I LOVE THAT BAG. Going to go now and beat the stuffing out of it.

[Duke Castile]

If the bag is swinging all over the place you are punching it wrong. It means you are pushing it rather than punching it. You have to have a quick recoil. The pushing punch will often hurt your wrists as MikeCF described. If your wrist wraps aren't on right, those will also hurt rather than help.

[Alpha Mind]

(08-12-2012 09:13 PM)DonovanVC Wrote:  

I was wondering if I could get some advice about working out, maintaining consistency in the gym and dealing with injury.

Was lifting a lot of weights last year, put on some great gains in about 5 months. Probably overworked myself though, ended up getting forearm/wrist tendinitis in February. Think I injured that area of my right arm from alot of dips and push ups.

Got a cortisone shot, it went away and I was back a few weeks later. Then seems I reaggravated the area again in June. Got another cortisone shot, but it hasn't been quite as effective. Its August now and I still feel pain (but not as much) and have mostly rested the area the last few weeks. Its getting better but seems incredibly slowly.

Spoke with the doc who administered the shot who said I need to restrengthen the area, focus on lighter weights for awhile. Literally using 3-5 pound dumbells right now for most of my exercises.

Didn't have any pain from my chest/shoulder exercises with such low weights but did feel some inflammation from back/biceps day.

Thinking about shutting it down for another couple of weeks and doing alot of stretches and just focusing on legs for now.

It sucks cuz you got to be so consistent in the gym to see results and time off like this is really stalling my gains.

I experienced a similar problem, although from different exercises and working on a computer too much. There's a program called Intu-Flow by Scott Sonnon. It comes off as a little new-age, but for injuries, it's one of the most legitimate programs I've ever gone through. The guy is a very legit martial artist and any programs he puts out are extremely high-quality.

All the movements are great for your body, it doesn't take much time at all, and if you're really strapped for time, you can select those that target your wrists/injuries.

You can actually check out the beginner exercises on youtube here:

http://youtu.be/2_-3yl7NO7A

Also, if you feel/hear any clicks while doing this, it's fine, as long as it's not painful. Watch the beginner 1 and 2 videos if you're concerned about it.

[xsplat]

(08-14-2012 02:36 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

If the bag is swinging all over the place you are punching it wrong. It means you are pushing it rather than punching it. You have to have a quick recoil. The pushing punch will often hurt your wrists as MikeCF described. If your wrist wraps aren't on right, those will also hurt rather than help.

Allright - it looks like I may have been using the wrong type of bandage for wrapping, have been wrapping wrong, and could use some new gloves. Also will get a larger bag.

[HiFlo]

in addition to better form you NEED to incorporate remedial exercises into workouts - just 1-2 every day.

For wrist you have crushers, timed hamburger grips on a plate, the wrist roll-up thing. For shoulders you have the cable lateral extensions (both rotating in & rotating out). Youtube that shit.