[alecks]

Recently just contracted this after coming back from vacation.My gums and all over the inside of my mouth is swollen and red with white spots,its definately candida but its not on my dick.Im currently on an antibiotic but its taking a while to kick in.

ive had to call work to say i cant come in for the rest of the week.im having really bad chest tightness and can barely swallow water its that painful.my tongue is starting to go white now and its throbbing.i cannot sleep at night and cant eat,i keep waking up drenched in sweat too.does anyone have experience with this,the pain is unbearable.

home remedies etc?

[MikeCF]

I had a problem with candida overgrowth.

First, your doctor should put you on an anti-fungal rather than an antibiotic. I'm not being pedantic for its own sake. Candida is a yeast/fungus. If you're not on an anti-fungal, your doctor fucked up.

Quote:

Fluconazole is used to treat serious fungal or yeast infections, such as vaginal candidiasis, oropharyngeal candidiasis (thrush, oral thrush), esophageal candidiasis (candida esophagitis), other candida infections (including urinary tract infections, peritonitis [inflammation of the lining of abdomen or stomach], and infections that may occur in different parts of the body), or fungal (cryptococcal) meningitis. This medicine works by killing

the fungus or yeast, or preventing its growth.


You need to repopulate your gastro intestinal system with probiotics and beneficial yeasts. You can do a ton of reading on your own.

Long story short: We have around 100 trillion yeasts and bacteria in our intestines.

The yeasts and bacteria are in constant competition. A yeast infection occurs when you have more harmful yeast than positive yeast.

If you have more beneficial yeasts and bacteria, then the bad yeasts get "crowded out."

So you need to completely repopulate your microflora. This will take months, not days.

The anti-fungal your doctor gave you should start to clear your thrush. But it will come back if you do not repopulate your gut.


Two that work really well:

1. Saccharomyces Boulardii

Quote:

Saccharomyces boulardii is a probiotic strain that confers many benefits to human enterocolopathies and is used against a number of enteric pathogens. Candida albicans is an opportunistic pathogen that causes intestinal infections in immunocompromised patients, and after translocation into the bloodstream, is responsible for serious systemic candidiasis. In this study, we investigated the influence of S. boulardii cells and its culture extract on C. albicans adhesion to Caco-2 and Intestin 407 cell lines. We also tested the proinflammatory IL-1beta, IL-6 and IL-8 cytokine expression by C. albicans-infected Caco-2 cells, using real-time RT-PCR. We found that both S. boulardii and its extract significantly

inhibited C. albicans adhesion to epithelial cell lines

2. Probiotic blend (Garden of Life has an excellent one).

Quote:

The extensive use of immunosuppressive therapies in recent years has increased the number of patients prone to or actually suffering from localised candidosis. As Candida species gain increasing resistance towards common antifungal drugs, new strategies are needed to prevent and treat infections caused by these pathogens. Probiotic bacteria have been in vogue in the past two decades. More and more dairy products containing such organisms offer promising potential beneficial effects on human health and well-being. Because of the ability of probiotic bacteria to inhibit the growth of pathogens and to modulate human immune responses, these bacteria could provide new possibilities in antifungal therapy. We summarise the recent findings concerning the usefulness of probiotic treatment in localised candidosis, as well as discussing possible risks of probiotic treatment and highlighting the molecular mechanisms that are believed to contribute to probiotic effects.

3. Cut out sugars. Sugar feeds candida.

4. Apple Cider Vinegar (there's a huge thread on this forum) might help. I haven't seen any scientific studies, but there are positive reports throughout the Internet.

5. Coconut oil is antifungal. I go through one of these a week. I cook with it, add it to my protein shakes. (It's solid at room temperature, so just put a tablespoon in a shot glass, then put the shot glass in a larger container of hot water to liquefy it.)

You are not in for a good time.

This is going to be a hell of a fight.

In any event, make sure your doctor has you on the right anti-fungal.

Do what he tells you.

He will not tell you about nutrition, even though there is a ton of research on candida.

I learned all of the above stuff when having sleepless nights. I'd spend dozens of hours on PubMed.

Doctors do not know shit about nutrition.

You must heal yourself from within. Drugs are not enough. You also have to repopulate your gut.

[alecks]

thanks mike,where did you have the overgrowth? no i am on an antifungal sorry,its called flagyl (metronidazole)

ive cut out all sugars besides the naturally occurring sugars in the probiotic yoghurt.i have been drinking acv for a while but it reaks havoc on my mouth if i try to rinse my mouth with it,its so painful.ive done the same with the coconut oil,ive used that for a long time.its just that its absolutely killing me at the moment.it feels like my mouth is full of razors and is closing over.

washing my mouth out with baking soda doesnt work either.

i cannot get my hands on those cultures you mentioned.the only thing i can get in my area is a strong acidophilus supplement.

[alphaspiraton]

I agree with Mike that the doctor could have fucked things up. I had a nasty virus a little while ago and the doctor prescribed me antibiotics. For a week. If any of you have taken them before you know that you feel extremely xhausted for the time period.

I wasn't getting better so I went to another doctor and he said why the fuck would she prescribe you antibiotics. He said that viruses aren't "living" like bacteria and antibiotics only target living organisms.

Turns out all I needed was a week of rest and plenty of water (2-3 litres per day - about 5 big glasses)

[MikeCF]

(08-09-2012 06:42 AM)alecks Wrote:  

thanks mike,where did you have the overgrowth? no i am on an antifungal sorry,its called flagyl (metronidazole)

ive cut out all sugars besides the naturally occurring sugars in the probiotic yoghurt.i have been drinking acv for a while but it reaks havoc on my mouth if i try to rinse my mouth with it,its so painful.ive done the same with the coconut oil,ive used that for a long time.its just that its absolutely killing me at the moment.it feels like my mouth is full of razors and is closing over.

washing my mouth out with baking soda doesnt work either.

i cannot get my hands on those cultures you mentioned.the only thing i can get in my area is a strong acidophilus supplement.

I linked to iHerb because they ship internationally.

I had candida over my dick.

I also get occasional (and severe) flares of seborrheic dermatitis, which is caused by a different yeast but which is nevertheless similarly miserable.

So I'm on a ton of probiotics and beneficial yeasts.

My dermatologist gave me lots of creams but never mentioned nutrition.

You need to track down the probiotics and yeasts.

[DjembaDjemba]

Go see a naturopath.

I was prescribed Candida SAP. It's a candida killing pro-biotic. Took capsules 3 times daily for 15 days, twice daily for 30 days, and once daily for 3 months.

http://www.nfh.ca/en/product_info/Candida%20SAP.pdf

It's essentially yeast overgrowth in your body (too much bread, pastry, sugar, processed food etc) and it makes you prone to specific area candida infections.

[KeTaMiNe]

Metronidazole is the appropriate antibiotic agent to treat candida albicans and in your case the candidiasis as it's called.

What everyone is saying about rebuilding your healthy bacteria colonization is golden.

Beyond that though, I think you need to take a step back and stop doing whatever it is you're doing to your mouth. Healthy adults should not be getting candida, it's a sign of an immune deficiency. For you probably just in your oral cavity, but it can be systemic. Your physician probably discussed this with you already. If you haven't been on local/systemic antibiotics or corticosteroids (cortisone/prednisone/other immune suppressants), a candida infections can be a sign for a serious infection, like a virus (HCMV, EBV, HIV, Herpes). Not trying to freak you out here, but if I was you I'd stop washing my mouth out altogether. For you I'd put the whole episode down to travelling, jet lag and change of water or climate. Just brush your teeth, take the metronidazole and eat/drink probiotic yoghurt. That's it. No mouth washs, no baking soda. If you can't brush your teeth due to the pain, 3% peroxide works (dont swallow), get it at the drugstore.

If you experience a fever, weight loss, sweating or muscle ache or a reoccurance of the candida you need to go back to the doc. If you're in great discomfort call him or her for some pain relief medication. Hope you feel better soon.

[kbell]

I believe candida can spread through sex and kissing as well. So you might want to avoid both until your recovered. Its easy to reinfect yourself if your girlfriend or fuckbuddy has it too. Although its possible that its always in you, yet held in control by other yeasts and bacteria. Also it might be helpful to avoid eating mushrooms and other yeast products too. Weirdly that may make things worse, even though its a different species of yeast.

[void]

how much sugar did you consume? are you sick in some other way, took some antibiotics? everyone has candida spores and various other microorgansims, but maybe your immune system is fucked up at the moment. +1 for probiotics and other beneficial stuff

[xsplat]

You're on the wrong prescription.

Take ibuprofen plus fluconazole. The two together are synergistic. Also buy nystatin and take according to the instructions. If you can get it also take berberine and baicalin. Synergistic with fluconazole again.

Also take unripe papaya that has not turned orange yet, or if you can't find that then the papaya seeds.

Also eat xylitol sugar. Cut out all starch and sugars.

Yes, virgin coconut oil.

Don't just use a few natural remedies. Do all of the above.

That'll fix you up fast.

Stop the metroniidalobadole. That's nasty shit.

And what Mike said about the probiotics.

[MikeCF]

(08-09-2012 01:23 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

Don't just use a few natural remedies. Do all of the above.

Agreed.

I took Candex in addition to the probiotics/yeast, didn't drink beer or wine, didn't eat mushrooms, etc.

I wasn't a scientist trying to avoid confounding variables.

I was a patient trying to get better.

[Capitán Peligroso]

Here's what Earthclinic had to say about it. It suggests a lot of the different remedies we've been talking about on the lifestyle forum. Virgin coconut oil oil pulling and taking grapefruit seed extract internally would be the first things I tried if it was me. This is one of those things that you can pretty easily fix by using natural remedies and prevent a relapse by minding your dietary Ps and Qs.

[alecks]

well its been 2 days and still no clear up,my tongue was a palish pink with a yellow hue on it 2 days ago now its fully yellow so it has obviously spread.

when i was on vacation i was consuming tons of alcohol everyday and eating next to nothing and then some days i was eating everything.i ate a lot of chicken breasts,green beans but also a lot of sugary shit.it was the change in climate and definately hard stresses on the body that have given me this i would reckon.

at home my diet is VERY good,i know my stuff and im never sick.if i am "sick" its a runny nose for a day or 2 then thats it.

i took berberine before for glucose disposal,ive heard its great for candida.

The worse thing about this is having a very difficult time swallowing,its not my throat at all now its down in my oesophagus.Anytime i swallow anything even water i get serious chest/oesophagus tightness just to the right centre of my nipple? it only lasts a few seconds but its literally like im swallowing razor blades..

i bought a probiotic supplement yesterday but im not sure will this fight my infection.it contains 2bn cultures of lactobacillus casei,rhamnosus and acidophilus.im also eating probiotic yoghurt.its very hard to keep hydrated.

im going back up to the doctor today

[KeTaMiNe]

Alecks,
You definitely need to go back and get an antimycotic drug that's effective against candida (the antibiotic is just making things worse). Where I'm from suspected candida warrants growing it in culture, it's standard procedure, so demand that, and mention you've been abroad on vacation. The prescription your doctor gave you makes no sense unless he thought you had a bacterial infection of the throat (for which metronidazole is a poor choice of treatment as well). Maybe he got confused with the names just as I did, a lot of antimycotic drugs end with a -azole.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(08-09-2012 10:05 AM)KeTaMiNe Wrote:  

Metronidazole is the appropriate antibiotic agent to treat candida albicans and in your case the candidiasis as it's called.

Metronidazole is an antibacterial agent which is strongest against anaerobic bacteria. It also has antiprotozoal properties.

I'm not aware of it having any antifungal properties. If it does have antifungal properties, it is probably a very weak treatment. He's on the wrong treatment for candida.

Clotrimazole lozenges or fluconazole or what I usually prescribe.

But anyone with oral candida needs to have blood glucose done to exclude diabetes and an HIV test to exclude AIDS, at the least.

[Architekt]

See, this is why you shouldn't go down on a girl you just met... Get over it soon though, man, sounds like it sucks.

[xsplat]

You really need to heed the advice you've been given. Candida lowers the immune system, making you more susceptible to candida.

The die off releases toxins, so you'll feel worse for a few days, but you've got to keep killing the buggers. DON'T just use a few mildly effective treatments, natural or not! Candida quickly gets resistant to whatever you throw at it. You MUST nuke it from all angles. Show no mercy.

If you are not taking fluconazole plus ibuprofen plus nystatin then you are deliberately failing. And pappaine or better yet papaya sap is very effective.

The probiotics you mentioned are fine, but won't out-compete the candida. Sarcomydes Boulardii (sp) is more aggressive in competing in the gut. It won't live there long, but helps to sort out overgrowths.

And while I'm repeating myself, get some xylitol. It prevents candida from adhering to the gut lining and forming tendril worm like creatures that penetrate your stomach and send spores into your blood. Xylitol chewing gum by itself can cure your mouth and throat problems. In addition to preventing adhesion, it's a sugar that the candida eats, but can't use to get enough energy to reproduce.

I don't know why you are dicking around. The stomach is a seat of a great portion of our immune systems. You are risking long term leaky gut problems holding your cock like this.

***
Have you been taking antacids? Antacids or proton pump inhibitors often lead to candida overgrowth.

[Kaizen]

If it is indeed Candida aka Thrush when it appears in the mouth, you need NYSTATIN swish and swallow.

If you are still having trouble swallowing, you need to see a Gastroenterologist to have an endoscopy so they can give a proper diagnosis. You may have esophageal candidiasis among other things.

See your doctor.

[alecks]

my computer was down for 2 days so couldnt reply.

okay went back to the doctor and bit of a turn around.i went to a different doctor in the same practice (family practice).this dude is the son of the main doctor,shes the old lady doc that is on her way out.

I have thrush on my tongue yes,but thats not whats inflaming my gums.

i have fucking GINGIVITIS. I have corsodyl mouthwash for this,it actually relieves the pain.

got augmentin,solpadene for pain and mycostatin (nystatin) for the actual thrush. the colour of my tongue is going down already.

i actually feel relieved that its not the thrush on my gums,as i would be sort of self medicating the wrong thing etc.

im slowly coming around now.im able to drink water and eat a little bit more thank fuck.sleeping a bit better too.still using the probiotics etc and drinking more water but im constipated from all the painkillers and lack of fibre

[speakeasy]

This is one of the scariest medical threads I've ever read on the forum.

[gringochileno]

I have no idea why you got flagyl for an oral candida infection but it's good to hear you're getting better on nystatin which is the correct therapy. I would make sure and get a follow up appointment soon to make sure the infection has gone down and you're not having any systemic symptoms (fever, chills, weight loss) because if the infection is systemic nystatin won't work and you'll need another drug, probably fluconazole. Otherwise it sounds like you're on the road to recovery. I'm not sure taking probiotics, herbal stuff or whatever will really benefit you but it can't hurt so I guess you might as well.

[alecks]

(08-12-2012 05:11 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

I have no idea why you got flagyl for an oral candida infection but it's good to hear you're getting better on nystatin which is the correct therapy. I would make sure and get a follow up appointment soon to make sure the infection has gone down and you're not having any systemic symptoms (fever, chills, weight loss) because if the infection is systemic nystatin won't work and you'll need another drug, probably fluconazole. Otherwise it sounds like you're on the road to recovery. I'm not sure taking probiotics, herbal stuff or whatever will really benefit you but it can't hurt so I guess you might as well.

i cant tell you why i got prescribed flagly either dude lol.the fever and weight loss has stopped.im still not eating fully as my mouth has not healed yet so i cant chew as it huts my mouth.i just do liquid meals (yoghurt,banana,protein powder) now but im still on a lot of painkillers.

washing my mouth out with solpadeine and corsodyl 4x a day.going back to work wednesday

[Cicero]

Track down some kefir grains and make homemade kefir. The stuff is loaded with beneficial yeasts and bacteria.

[06149e9a]

No advice on recovery but...

I thought you only got thrush if you're severely immune-compromised or recently off a huge antibiotic course? If the former, stop doing crack and sleeping two hours a night, and are you truly sure you don't have AIDS? If the latter, be advised that antibiotics are actually a huge fucking deal. There's a growing body of evidence that a single course of antibiotics can fuck up your health for years, if not permanently. There's good studies correlating *childhood* antibiotic usage to shit like cancer, heart disease, and schizophrenia. Refuse to take that shit unless you're gonna die or your dick will fall off.

The reason antibiotics are so bad is they kill your gut bacteria, which are super important and borderline impossible to get back in good order once they're dead.

[gringochileno]

(08-12-2012 08:48 PM)06149e9a Wrote:  

No advice on recovery but...

I thought you only got thrush if you're severely immune-compromised or recently off a huge antibiotic course? If the former, stop doing crack and sleeping two hours a night, and are you truly sure you don't have AIDS? If the latter, be advised that antibiotics are actually a huge fucking deal. There's a growing body of evidence that a single course of antibiotics can fuck up your health for years, if not permanently. There's good studies correlating *childhood* antibiotic usage to shit like cancer, heart disease, and schizophrenia. Refuse to take that shit unless you're gonna die or your dick will fall off.

The reason antibiotics are so bad is they kill your gut bacteria, which are super important and borderline impossible to get back in good order once they're dead.

Your gut bacteria will come back pretty quickly actually. People are actually born without any bacteria in their gut and get colonized very early in life. I don't know of any good data linking probiotic use after a course of antibiotics to reduced secondary infection rates, which may be due to the fact that your normal flora come back pretty quickly anyway (for flagyl I might endorse it anyway just because it pretty specifically targets the kind of bacteria that live in your GI tract though, and besides it can't hurt).

This isn't to say that taking antibiotics has no ill effects, but letting an infection go untreated is way worse.