[temujin]

Anyone know what the best compound exercises are for upper body as an MMA trainee?

I know squats, clean & jerk, and dead lifts are awesome for building power.

But what would be some good ones for upper body that would build functional strength and build mass around the shoulders and arms?

I don't have a lot of time but don't want to get muscular imbalances from focusing solely on bench press + military press + dips (as I do now).

[the chef]

i watched an interview with this famous MMA trainer who's the strength and conditioning coach for GSP.

apparently strength and conditioning for an MMA fighter is no different than any other athlete. that being said... they focus on heavy compound movements with no isolation exercises at all pretty much.

in the weightroom they work on olympic lifts. deadlifts and squats of course... snatches, cleans, clean and jerks, clean and presses. that kinda thing. very rarely would you see em do bicep curls, and tricep pulldowns. compound movements are the key.

for explosion they focus on plyometrics. box squats, jump squats, clapping pushups, that sorta deal.

to emulate the fight they do HIIT training, so sprinting is definitely necessary.

also throw in kettlebell training and circuit training to focus on muscular endurance.

i'll post the video with GSP's trainer when i get home and have access to my computer in a bit.

[bface]

Muscular imbalances from BP, MP and dips? Where?

Only thing I noticed by doing basically the same stuff is a lack of upper chest which can be fixed by incline bench and/or incline flyes if you care about looks.

If you are not doing enough for your back, maybe add some pullups. But your leg stuff should take care of that.

Only thing: Personally I have problems doing to much shoulder stuff while training a lot of standup at the same time. Maybe drop the dips...

But where exactly are you seeing imbalances??

[the chef]

Oh yeah and they also work out heavy with med balls for core strength

[WanderingSoul]

Basically, your lifts should be some combination of squats, deadlifts, power cleans, bent over rows, bench press, overhead press, dips, chin ups and pull ups. High weight, low reps. This is for building size/strength/power. A real MMA athlete would/should have his training divided into blocks such as max strength phase, muscular endurance phase, etc. all leading up to his fight where he would peak. For your average dude, check below.

I 110% recommend you buy the book Starting Strength. If you don't have cash for a book right now, check out these links.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/S...ength_Wiki
http://stronglifts.com/

[Statsi]

I fully recommend stronglifts, while your physique doesn't radically change quickly, your strength makes huge gains if you've never trained correctly before.

[JayMillz]

(08-05-2012 04:15 PM)temujin Wrote:  

Anyone know what the best compound exercises are for upper body as an MMA trainee?

Excuse the voice sync, but might be some useful tips.

[Hades]

For MMA the best resource is definitely Ross Enamait's books and training forums.
Don't bother with a max muscle protocol like starting strength unless you are not happy with your current weight class. If you do want to bulk though you can't go wrong with starting strength.

Handstand pushups will correct imbalances in the shoulder. However as long as you do overhead press you should be OK. Dips are also good for bulking the shoulders.

[the chef]

from GSP's trainer: heavy weighted chins, single rep squats, heavy lunges, plyometrics, olympic lifts...

[WanderingSoul]

(08-05-2012 07:30 PM)Hades Wrote:  

For MMA the best resource is definitely Ross Enamait's books and training forums.
Don't bother with a max muscle protocol like starting strength unless you are not happy with your current weight class. If you do want to bulk though you can't go wrong with starting strength.

Handstand pushups will correct imbalances in the shoulder. However as long as you do overhead press you should be OK. Dips are also good for bulking the shoulders.

Personally, I lump Ross together with Crossfit. It is GPP work with little progression. If you are more interested in conditioning for MMA, go here: http://www.8weeksout.com/. There may even be some good strength stuff there, I haven't checked it out in a couple of years so I forget.

Ross Enamait has branded himself for combat sports, but I wouldn't follow it for that purpose. It is great for general fitness.

Starting Strength is great for bulking, but that is not all. If you don't want to bulk, you will adjust your diet accordingly, and your strength gains wont be as quick.

However, for a novice/intermediate lifter, the quickest and most efficient way to increase your explosiveness is by increasing your max strength. Starting Strength, or a similar 3/5x5 program, is going to be the best bet for this.

It all depends on how serious/scientific you want to get with this. The 8 weeks out link will be pretty serious, all of the way down to heart rate monitors while you train. Crossfit/Enamait is great for general fitness, but if you do your research, you will see why I have my stance on it that I do. If you want to increase your strength and explosiveness, start with Starting Strength or a similar program.

The best advice I can give is to do your own research. Hades and I could go back and forth on why we have differing views, but I'm too hungry and tired for that lol. A good place to start is http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/. The training forums there are really great. The main MMA discussion forums are a big pile of shit though.

[Hades]

(08-05-2012 07:56 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(08-05-2012 07:30 PM)Hades Wrote:  

For MMA the best resource is definitely Ross Enamait's books and training forums.
Don't bother with a max muscle protocol like starting strength unless you are not happy with your current weight class. If you do want to bulk though you can't go wrong with starting strength.

Handstand pushups will correct imbalances in the shoulder. However as long as you do overhead press you should be OK. Dips are also good for bulking the shoulders.

Personally, I lump Ross together with Crossfit. It is GPP work with little progression. If you are more interested in conditioning for MMA, go here: http://www.8weeksout.com/. There may even be some good strength stuff there, I haven't checked it out in a couple of years so I forget.

Ross Enamait has branded himself for combat sports, but I wouldn't follow it for that purpose. It is great for general fitness.

Starting Strength is great for bulking, but that is not all. If you don't want to bulk, you will adjust your diet accordingly, and your strength gains wont be as quick.

However, for a novice/intermediate lifter, the quickest and most efficient way to increase your explosiveness is by increasing your max strength. Starting Strength, or a similar 3/5x5 program, is going to be the best bet for this.

It all depends on how serious/scientific you want to get with this. The 8 weeks out link will be pretty serious, all of the way down to heart rate monitors while you train. Crossfit/Enamait is great for general fitness, but if you do your research, you will see why I have my stance on it that I do. If you want to increase your strength and explosiveness, start with Starting Strength or a similar program.

The best advice I can give is to do your own research. Hades and I could go back and forth on why we have differing views, but I'm too hungry and tired for that lol. A good place to start is http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/. The training forums there are really great. The main MMA discussion forums are a big pile of shit though.

Yeah I'll agree for sure, max strength = best power increase. I'll also agree that Ross Enamait is solid for general physical preparedness. My stance on GOMAD and SS-style heavy lifts is that it's great for bulking but the excess bodily fat increase is not desirable for someone who just wants to get into MMA. You'll be in a higher weight class full of lean and terrifyingly strong athletes if you don't take the time to cut.

If, for example, you have ~155 pounds of lean body mass and are like 5' 11", if might be a better idea to cut down to 6% body fat or so and go from there to stay in a lighter weight class. Though if you're running on less raw calories you won't fatten up, so good call.

I guess the problem here is a lack of info. If the OP said "I have eight months to get into MMA" then I'd be completely in favor of SS then some sort of cutting program (like jump rope or sprints). Thanks for the sherdog and 8weeks links though. I'll be sure to check that shit out.

[Duke Castile]

(08-05-2012 04:53 PM)bface Wrote:  

Muscular imbalances from BP, MP and dips? Where?

Only thing I noticed by doing basically the same stuff is a lack of upper chest which can be fixed by incline bench and/or incline flyes if you care about looks.

If you are not doing enough for your back, maybe add some pullups. But your leg stuff should take care of that.

Only thing: Personally I have problems doing to much shoulder stuff while training a lot of standup at the same time. Maybe drop the dips...

But where exactly are you seeing imbalances??

How about there being zero pulling being done? That's pretty important to an MMA fighter.

[WanderingSoul]

(08-05-2012 11:52 PM)Hades Wrote:  

Yeah I'll agree for sure, max strength = best power increase. I'll also agree that Ross Enamait is solid for general physical preparedness. My stance on GOMAD and SS-style heavy lifts is that it's great for bulking but the excess bodily fat increase is not desirable for someone who just wants to get into MMA. You'll be in a higher weight class full of lean and terrifyingly strong athletes if you don't take the time to cut.

If, for example, you have ~155 pounds of lean body mass and are like 5' 11", if might be a better idea to cut down to 6% body fat or so and go from there to stay in a lighter weight class. Though if you're running on less raw calories you won't fatten up, so good call.

I guess the problem here is a lack of info. If the OP said "I have eight months to get into MMA" then I'd be completely in favor of SS then some sort of cutting program (like jump rope or sprints). Thanks for the sherdog and 8weeks links though. I'll be sure to check that shit out.

I wouldn't recommend GOMAD unless someone wanted to put on weight. You can do a 3/5x5 routine like Starting Strength and not gain any weight at all. That is totally dependent upon your diet. If you don't want to bulk, you will not gain strength as quickly because you won't be gaining as much additional muscle mass. However, you will still get strong quickly and your athletic ability will be much improved.

I trained Jiu Jitsu 4 days a week and did Starting Strength 3x a week for over two months until I broke my jaw. I wasn't bulking but I still gained a lot of strength very quickly.

[temujin]

Thanks guys.

Looks like maybe I should replace the sitting military press with a standing press and try to do more pull-ups to even things out.

I'm 6'1", around 190-195lbs right now, but put on some fat due to lack of cardio lately. I'm hoping to add strength and bulk to 210 before hitting MMA more regularly to cut down. I'm an ectomorph.

I'm not really worried about weight class since I'm not competing. I just want to be able to wreck havoc in case I get jumped by a local guy for fingering his sister.

[WanderingSoul]

(08-06-2012 01:56 AM)temujin Wrote:  

I'm 6'1", around 190-195lbs right now, but put on some fat due to lack of cardio lately. I'm hoping to add strength and bulk to 210 before hitting MMA more regularly to cut down. I'm an ectomorph.

I wouldn't do that. We get tons of people who say they are going to get into shape before they start training. It just ends up never happening. I would jump right into training. 2-3x a week, maybe lifting weights a couple times a week. Then ramp it up. Keep in mind, when you start training, you will only be able to train 3x a week or so because your body will be sore as fuck. After a month or two you will be able to start training more.

What type of training will you be doing? I would stay away from any of those places that have "MMA classes" but not Jiu Jits/Boxing/Muay Thai. MMA is boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling and Jiu Jitsu all rolled into one. To train/compete in MMA you really need to train each sport individually. Those beginner MMA type of classes are fine if you are training Jiu Jitsu/striking outside of it as well.

Personally, I like Jiu Jitsu the most, with boxing being a second. Muay Thai never grabbed hold of me for some reason. I suggest you check a couple of them out and see which one is the most fun for you.

PM me if you are looking into some gyms. I can check them out and make sure they are legit.

[temujin]

hey Rio,

I should have mentioned, I've done MMA on and off for the last 4 years, mostly stand-up. I took time off because of my health and decided to get stronger and bigger before getting back into it.

The classes I'm looking at are legit as far as I know: Muay Thai Euro champions, BJJ black belts, and some wrestlers as well.

But I know I won't be able to train "hard." I can probably do 2 classes a week, 3 on a good week. I usually need 24-48 hours to recover.

[bface]

(08-06-2012 12:30 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

(08-05-2012 04:53 PM)bface Wrote:  

Muscular imbalances from BP, MP and dips? Where?

Only thing I noticed by doing basically the same stuff is a lack of upper chest which can be fixed by incline bench and/or incline flyes if you care about looks.

If you are not doing enough for your back, maybe add some pullups. But your leg stuff should take care of that.

Only thing: Personally I have problems doing to much shoulder stuff while training a lot of standup at the same time. Maybe drop the dips...

But where exactly are you seeing imbalances??

How about there being zero pulling being done? That's pretty important to an MMA fighter.

Last time I checked Deadlift and Clean are pulls... Squats also works the same muscles.

[WanderingSoul]

(08-06-2012 12:27 PM)temujin Wrote:  

hey Rio,

I should have mentioned, I've done MMA on and off for the last 4 years, mostly stand-up. I took time off because of my health and decided to get stronger and bigger before getting back into it.

The classes I'm looking at are legit as far as I know: Muay Thai Euro champions, BJJ black belts, and some wrestlers as well.

But I know I won't be able to train "hard." I can probably do 2 classes a week, 3 on a good week. I usually need 24-48 hours to recover.

Ah, gotcha man. I thought you were new to training. Good luck getting back into it. I always hate that first week back of puking and getting your ass kicked lol.

[Laner]

Check out Samuel Pont. He has some good tabata exercises using kettle bells. Guard breaks, post ups, etc. I use his android app.

One of my good friends is a known trainer in England and puts his students on this as part of their standard conditioning.

[Duke Castile]

(08-06-2012 12:29 PM)bface Wrote:  

(08-06-2012 12:30 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

(08-05-2012 04:53 PM)bface Wrote:  

Muscular imbalances from BP, MP and dips? Where?

Only thing I noticed by doing basically the same stuff is a lack of upper chest which can be fixed by incline bench and/or incline flyes if you care about looks.

If you are not doing enough for your back, maybe add some pullups. But your leg stuff should take care of that.

Only thing: Personally I have problems doing to much shoulder stuff while training a lot of standup at the same time. Maybe drop the dips...

But where exactly are you seeing imbalances??

How about there being zero pulling being done? That's pretty important to an MMA fighter.

Last time I checked Deadlift and Clean are pulls... Squats also works the same muscles.

And last time I check BP, MP, and Dips have zero pulling involved. You asked him where he was having an imbalance in those movements. Anyway, your recommendations are geared towards bodybuilding not functional mma type strength and conditioning. I'm a big believer in crossfit myself. If you're going to do dips, do them on rings. If you're going to do military press, do it standing. If you're going to do bench press, don't do benchpress. That shit is a waste of time.