[thegmanifesto]

Way back in Feb '08, I wrote a classic piece Swooping Girls in a Down Market http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2008/02/swo...arket.html .

Obviously a lot has changed since then.

I am curious if you guys have noticed big changes in swooping girls today compared to say '05 when the economy was booming?

I have noticed that girls:

- Go out a lot less. I used to swoop girls on Tuesday and Wed nights. Now it is way more difficult. Weekends are more prime time.

- I have also known tons of girls that have shacked up in the last year, married or serious relationships. Like a huge percentage (I wrote about this here: http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2009/11/alw...blood.html ). Could be that girls are getting older, but I can't remember a year where my pipeline of girls on my team took such a big hit. Has to be the Down Economy.

The point I am trying to make is that I think it might have been easier to swoop mad girls in '05 compared to '09.

When the econ first tanked, it was a flesh fest, but since I think things have cooled.

To combat this, I have gotten back into Day Game. Don't get me wrong, I have swooped tons of girls this year, but it hasn't been as effortless as years prior.

What are peoples thoughts?

Game easier, same or more challenging?

[speakeasy]

I'm just not going out as much. Can't be blowing $10 a drink + $20 cover every other night. Money is too tight these days. I have been splurging on clothes though. The discounts are hard to pass up. But at least I'm getting something that'll last and a nice wardrobe is an asset to an aspiring PUA. That $10 cocktail will be pissed out within the hour.

[thegmanifesto]

speakeasy,

You are not alone. Travel and hotels are great bargains as well.

Have you noticed it being more difficult to swoop girls in the Down Economy?

Side note:

I know there are a lot of factors at work here for everyone. For instance, if you had no Game in '05 and now have Game you are obviously going to do better today than '05.

For me, my Game has been 8th degree Black Belt for years. Sure I am better now than '05 (just from more experience), but not by significant leaps and bounds.

Which is even more why I think it is more challenging today.

[kerouac]

Best tool for a down economy:

[thegmanifesto]

kerouac,

Ha. I actually have been carrying a flask lately.

Especially into nightclubs where I go, where I don't like the owner.

Fits perfectly when suited down.

kerouac, "Game easier, same or more challenging?"

[Kona]

It seems easier these days to land higher quality girls.

Once you find them.

I swooped one on Thanksgiving which I will post about her in another section. Banging her was 10% my own craftiness and 90% down economy.

Success and security and crap like that are a way bigger turn on for girls now then they were before. Resourcefulness is big, too.

People are broker, and not only depressed but depressing when you talk to them.

When a girl asks what a man does, nowadays she gets: "Well I was the coolest realtor on the Island, I'm just valeting until the market comes back."

Too many people are just depressed and only talking negatively. Girls hear the negative weak crap now they're depressed the whole night. Maybe they just go home. Some whiner made her sad. Now they think all men are worthless, that particular evening. Like Thegmanifesto said, there are fewer girls going out. Some crabass just ruined one of them with his gay bullshit.

Aloha!

[thegmanifesto]

"It seems easier these days to land higher quality girls. Once you find them. "

I think that is the key.

I think the down economy has hurt me a little because the last few years I had been perfecting swooping girls in high end lounges, nightclubs and restaurants.

That pipeline has largely dried up for me. Gone are the Tuesday nights where I could roll Dolo to a fly restaurant and scoop two fly girls out the bar with ease. Now I go and the place is scrappy at best. Or out of biz.

That is why I have been switching up speeds like Bruce Lee riding the Fuji in the Movie.

I need to travel more to to switch up Game.

Game. Constantly changing.

[Shaman]

(12-08-2009 10:29 PM)Kona Wrote:  

It seems easier these days to land higher quality girls.

Once you find them.

I swooped one on Thanksgiving which I will post about her in another section. Banging her was 10% my own craftiness and 90% down economy.

Success and security and crap like that are a way bigger turn on for girls now then they were before. Resourcefulness is big, too.

People are broker, and not only depressed but depressing when you talk to them.

When a girl asks what a man does, nowadays she gets: "Well I was the coolest realtor on the Island, I'm just valeting until the market comes back."

Too many people are just depressed and only talking negatively. Girls hear the negative weak crap now they're depressed the whole night. Maybe they just go home. Some whiner made her sad. Now they think all men are worthless, that particular evening. Like Thegmanifesto said, there are fewer girls going out. Some crabass just ruined one of them with his gay bullshit.

Aloha!

Word. If you're doing really well and making good money then you're definitely going to stand out in a very good way, and I think you can DEFINITELY use this to your advantage, lots of potential leverage there if you know what you're doing.

[UgSlayer]

College bars are suffering as well, but not as much. You've got drink specials every night, and they are still packed on weekends. Gmanifesto, no wonder your quantity is suffering. You frequent the big spender places. That is your niche, which I respect. But in the down economy finding quality poon in those places is not as easy. You've already made the shift to day game, but don't give up on the night game yet. Try some different venues. I bet you'll run into the same quality of girls and maybe even the same girls there now that you did a couple years ago.

[thegmanifesto]

"You frequent the big spender places. That is your niche, which I respect. But in the down economy finding quality poon in those places is not as easy."

Ugslayer, you are completely right. I don't know why I wasn't able to put two and two together (to equal five).

High end Game has suffered along with the high end hotels, restaurants nightclubs etc.

I really had graduated from normal Game to high end Game and got caught holding the bag (so to speak). It is tricky to transition back down.

The funniest thing is I just re-read http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2008/02/swo...arket.html

I wrote it for others, but I really should be taking my own advice.

I guess I have something to get re-acquainted with in 2010!

[Kona]

I was very surprised when I read this in Thegmanifesto.com.

What I noticed was out of the 8 cities you mentioned 3 are in California. Then you have Vegas and New Orleans.

California, I spent some time in and had a blast in 2007. All I read about it now is either bad economy, or Hawaiians getting sent to Lompoc.

Vegas sounds like it's bricking right now, too. I was just there and everybody's selling their house?

New Orleans, I was only in once, pre-Katrina, Post-Katrina what I saw broke my heart so I'd imagine there's not a lot of positivity out there either.

All 5 of those places sound like they are pretty depressing all around. It stands to reason girl swooping would be slow there as well.

Aloha!

[thegmanifesto]

Good analysis Kona. Those are all the spots I spend the most time in. All hit real heavy.

I was in Miami Beach in Sept which is kind of slow season, but it will be interesting to see how it handles when I go in Feb (high season).

As far as New Orleans, it is really sad. I have been to that cities tons of times and love it.

The first time I went post-Katrina it was devastating. Slowly it is making a comeback. I went twice this year already and it was the best I have been there since Katrina. So it is making a comeback.

DC is the only place on my list that didn't seem too hurt. And I have spent the least amount of time there. (Only once in the last three years).

My new plan for 2010 and beyond is to focus my traveling outside of the US.

[kindredspirit]

In Eastern Europe, game difficulty level just dropped to BEGINNER, and if you have disposable cash and financial security (on display through subtle status symbols), you're playing with cheat codes.

Our local competition, never the best to begin with, are now increasingly broke and jobless. Many of them also took on massive loans during the boom years thinking it would last forever, and are now paying the price much like Americans are.

[thegmanifesto]

kindredspirit,

Nice. Good to hear. I love "cheat codes".

I need to enjoy the fruits of my "labor" more.

I got Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania on the docket for either May or Sept.

And Spain either May or Sept.

Looking forward to it.

[Giovonny]

Picking up girls in 05 vs. 09 ...easier/ harder/same???....i think it depends on the person...i was in college so things were quite easy for me in 05.....now i have more money and game but its harder to surrond myself with young hotties...i think "Ugslayer" was correct to say that "high end" Game is way down right now...that probably explains why "TheGManifesto" is having to work harder these days...My final answer is ...THE SAME....A Man always has to be prepared to adjust to his situation...To me , that is one of the traits of a real G/Hustler....He can adapt and find success in any situation....This game is just like any other sport....injuries, defensive adjustments, coaching changes, etc. ...A real athlete will always find a way to win...But i will say this about 2005..Bull Markets are WAY SEXIER then bear markets, Everyone was making money, buying houses , cars, boats, etc. guys were giving girls jewelry and credit cards, etc....that shit is sexy to a woman and they were a bit MORE LOOSE in that enviroment. But now, reality is back...less profits, financial worries, bills, a more conservative long term approach, getting back to fundamentals...that shit isn't sexy to a woman...thats boring to them. Before she could fuck an investment banker, a morgage guy , a salemens, a real estate guy...they all had dough! ... Now she has to be more careful...the guys shes fucking might be out of a job, have an "underwater" morgage, lost his "nest egg", etc... now she has to protect her asset(pussy)....so they are being more careful now and settling down more...girls always panic when things get rough...I'm not worried...this is life and this is the game....We just have to adjust our game to fit market conditions! .... i'm on my way to a free yoga class that is packed with hotties!

[UgSlayer]

(12-09-2009 04:00 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Picking up girls in 05 vs. 09 ...easier/ harder/same???....i think it depends on the person...i was in college so things were quite easy for me in 05.....now i have more money and game but its harder to surrond myself with young hotties...i think "Ugslayer" was correct to say that "high end" Game is way down right now...that probably explains why "TheGManifesto" is having to work harder these days...My final answer is ...THE SAME....A Man always has to be prepared to adjust to his situation...To me , that is one of the traits of a real G/Hustler....He can adapt and find success in any situation....This game is just like any other sport....injuries, defensive adjustments, coaching changes, etc. ...A real athlete will always find a way to win...But i will say this about 2005..Bull Markets are WAY SEXIER then bear markets, Everyone was making money, buying houses , cars, boats, etc. guys were giving girls jewelry and credit cards, etc....that shit is sexy to a woman and they were a bit MORE LOOSE in that enviroment. But now, reality is back...less profits, financial worries, bills, a more conservative long term approach, getting back to fundamentals...that shit isn't sexy to a woman...thats boring to them. Before she could fuck an investment banker, a morgage guy , a salemens, a real estate guy...they all had dough! ... Now she has to be more careful...the guys shes fucking might be out of a job, have an "underwater" morgage, lost his "nest egg", etc... now she has to protect her asset(pussy)....so they are being more careful now and settling down more...girls always panic when things get rough...I'm not worried...this is life and this is the game....We just have to adjust our game to fit market conditions! .... i'm on my way to a free yoga class that is packed with hotties!

I agree with you Gio. Being able to adapt is in the top 3 characteristics of a real player. Also, in these insecure financial times, a girl does panic a little, whether consciously or subconsciously. When a girl in more prosperous times would spend her own money and go out every weekend to these top-end bars, during a time when spending should be more conservative, she will be more likely to latch herself onto a secure boyfriend who will pay for things. While she may cheat or date multiple guys, she is less likely to because if she is caught, there is a likelihood of the guys breaking up with her afterwards or not allocating the same amount of resources to her.

Like I said, I personally have not felt too much of an impact. I'm just throwing out some theories.

[thegmanifesto]

Giovonny,

"i think it depends on the person...i was in college so things were quite easy for me in 05"

Yeah, the more I think about it, the question I posed probably only applies to people that were 26 years old in '05 and 30 years old in '09 or older. Basically, things being constant.

"We just have to adjust our game to fit market conditions!"

That is true. I guess where I got caught a little flat footed was in bringing my Game back down from high-end to meet everyone else.

The move up from normal to high end was easy, back down is trickier.

[thegmanifesto]

UgSlayer,

"Being able to adapt is in the top 3 characteristics of a real player."

Well said.

"When a girl in more prosperous times would spend her own money and go out every weekend to these top-end bars, during a time when spending should be more conservative, she will be more likely to latch herself onto a secure boyfriend who will pay for things. While she may cheat or date multiple guys, she is less likely to because if she is caught, there is a likelihood of the guys breaking up with her afterwards or not allocating the same amount of resources to her."

Good analysis. I think you nailed it (so to speak) on why so much of my pipeline has been depleted this year. A girl that was 21 in '05 is now 25 and shacking up.

The days of high-end bars was so easy, all you had to do was compete with office workers, I Bankers and Real Estate Chumps.

So easy to slice and dice for a guy like me.

Game is constantly Metamorphasising.

That is the lesson to learn here.

[Kona]

(12-08-2009 11:14 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I think the down economy has hurt me a little because the last few years I had been perfecting swooping girls in high end lounges, nightclubs and restaurants.

How many of those places are still open?

Head back to the ones that were ten years ago.

There's a lot of new "high-end" out there, it flooded the market. The girls are spread too thin, but have to eventually come back to the places with staying power.

I was talking to some people last night about a new upscale spot in town. One guy says "Why even go, it'll be shut down in a month."

Get back to what was really high end and has been for years. You probably learned the high end game in those places anyway.

For example, The Kahala.


Aloha!

[thegmanifesto]

Kona,

Yeah, you are right.

I think for me it really just comes down to "Venue Shifting".

[JoeSea]

Sup folks,

First time chiming in on this forum. I had some thoughts on this topic as I've been out pretty regularly this past year.

Observations:

- Not as many people out at the usual spots, even on the weekends.
- Regular Dude is getting increasingly more sloppy when out lately. I think a lot of guys are throwing in the towel as far as getting chicks when out and are now going out with the #1 purpose of "getting sloshed". This means that if you're not careful, you could end up having to deal with some meathead BS over the course of your night, which used to be completely avoidable.
- If chicks used to have low self esteem/confidence before, well I would say it's now at an all time low.
Thus you get a lot of what I call "false positives". Chicks you may meet out and may seem confident and secure turn out to be deranged or end up needing to be constantly propped up.
- If you are out to get laid, I would say going for the same night lay is extremely important for the reason listed above.
Strike while the iron is hot.
- It's almost 100% certain that she will ask about your financial status very early on in the conversation. I use this as a qualifier now, the chicks that don't ask are the ones that usually have their shit together.
- More people on edge in general. Tough to find people out that are genuninely having a good time.
- More of a law enforcement presence.
- Poseurs, rookies, shmucks, boring people are quickly being identified and weeded out. If you find yourself in a place with a lot of these types, make a mental note to not come back.
- Pay-for-play is on the decline.
I think Gman hinted at whats going on in his "end of bottle service" piece. There are some places still holding on to the pay-for-play model, but these are quickly becomming the places you want to avoid like the plague due to the chicks that frequent these establishments. Mostly broke gold diggers hoping to latch on to some poor unsuspecting dude for free drinks.
- The coolest places with the hottest chicks are places you're not going to hear about in your local "things to do this weekend" section of the paper. To combat this, people going to have to go "old school" and actually talk and connect with people again to find out about the cool shit.
- Drug/rave culture is making a MAJOR comeback.


Suggestions:

- Try out the middle class bars/clubs. Cheap drinks are usually a good indicator.
- Spend one weekend going to all the places that are new or that you haven't been to yet in your city. The high-society crowd usually likes to gather in spots that have only opened recently.
- Follow the DJ. People still want to have a good time and the music has a LOT to do with this. The best DJ's in your city are going to play at the places worth going to and also know about the cool parties/after parties.

[thegmanifesto]

JoeSea,

Great breakdown, I have seen first hand, everything you mentioned.

When you say, "Pay-for-play is on the decline", do you mean bottle service type joints or ladies of the night?

A younger guy in my crew was in Las Vegas last weekend and said he never had seen so many young hot working girls. He is a Vegas vet, so he is comparing that to past trips to Vegas.

Great suggestions on how to counter attack. I have definitely been employing those strategies.

[Kona]

(12-10-2009 10:50 AM)JoeSea Wrote:  

Mostly broke gold diggers hoping to latch on to some poor unsuspecting dude for free drinks.

This is a good thread. Thanks for starting it. I really hadn't thought that much about how the economy has effected the girl scoring situation.

Resourcefulness impresses girls these days.

Here's my trick with bottle service and gold diggers:

Befriend someone controlling who goes in the bottle service vip section.

Find a douchebag in there that wants to tell you about the wonderful investment or partnership opportunity he has for you. Check the scenario and make sure he has the giant $400 bottle of Grey Goose. We all know it's not really Grey Goose in there, but he doesn't. Tell him you'll be right back because you are waiting for a girl.

Go out to the smoking area and grab the most gold diggerish looking girl, preferably Asian, that you see. Have a spliff and burn it with her just a little. Tell her you got some joker inside that wants you to drink some of his vodka and red bulls. Ask her if she wants some too. Of course she'll say yes. Make sure she understands you two have to look like you are together, because you told the guy you were waiting for her. This isn't really important for the free booze. This is to get the kino going, it's also to get her thinking that the two of you are little partners in crime.

When you go back in, I guarantee the guy will just be sitting there waiting for you with his mouth wide open. Listen to him yap while your girl fills up on the shitty vodka. Put everything he says right back in his face and tell him what a bullshit idea his little plan is. Tell him thanks for wasting your time, and refill the girl's glass and walk out. The girl will say things like "I can't believe you just did that. Don't you know how much that Grey Goose costs."

You just impressed her and got a bunch of booze in her, all for free. It's a win-win.

The only downside to this move is the 45 minute car ride back to my house. Asian girls are a little antsy to begin with, but put 4 red bulls in their system they bounce off the damn walls. Great for later in bed, but it makes it hard to drive.

Aloha!

[JoeSea]

Quote:

When you say, "Pay-for-play is on the decline", do you mean bottle service type joints or ladies of the night?

By pay-for-play I mean any place in general where the more your spending correlates to your status in the place for the night, but yeah, I guess the spots that come to mind include all the bottle service places. I would also say that it seems like "flashy game" is on the on the way out BIGTIME. I remeber being at crowded clubs on two different occasions where a guy was employing flashy game by "making it rain" all over the dance floor... and literally getting laughed at by everyone standing around. Not one person bent down to grab any dough. I think that speaks volumes in a down economy.

[Giovonny]

Kona is in "The Zone" right now...excellent posts the last few days!