[PJEUA]

I've been living in brazil now for 3 months as I recently chose to relocate here and work. Before I got to Brazil I was really excited to be here and around the beautiful women that Brazil is so famous for. I thought I would be getting lots of girls, having success in the clubs, eventually secure a beautiful wife etc etc. But to be honest the last 3 months have been an absolute failure and it almost seems to me like the girls I am going after are programmed not to like gringo. Who came up with this BS that Brazilian girls "love gringoes"? I get the sense that many of them have never even kissed a gringo, yet alone had sex with one. They just seem to view me as a cool novelty, not someone they would seriously date ("hey lets have a photo with the gringo!"). I know some other gringoes who are married or have girlfriends, but they are not with the beautiful wealthy white girls--"patricinhas" or whatever they're called. In fact they are all with mediocre girls...the top shelf girls seem to go to Brasileiros....You guys know what I mean.....

About me: I am 25, not tall, not fat, fit, good source of income, and my game, relative to the members' on this board, is below average, but above average overall. Speak portunol.

When I go out to clubs and approach girls, I am just blown out one after the other. Before I got here I thought they would be interested in talking to a gringo, etc, but it seems like being a gringo is actually a DETERRENT. I'm approaching sober, trying all different types of angles, etc, but the girls just aren't feeling me in clubs. Is it my accent, too desperate maybe? From the girl's perspective I can see why it might be harder for me to arouse her than a Brazilian guy--I can't talk intimate, my accent is strange, etc. Some girls will give me attention, even want pictures with me but they still just joke with me and say "gringo" to their friend. Is it like what Roosh says--I mean how a lot of middle/upper class girls resent living in a poor country and want to show that they are "badass" and won't fall head over heals for me just because I am a gringo?

But I know Roosh and the forum advocate not to go to expensive clubs, and those are the ones I primarily go to (I can't say I have had much success in cheaper venues as well;it's like a catch22 go the cheaper clubs no girls speak English, go to the expensive clubs 70% do). The clubs where every girl has an iPhone. But if I go to the less expensive clubs the quality obviously is poorer...I'd obviously like something to change so that I can continue to go to the expensive clubs because that's where the quality is highest...

Sorry for the long ramble....think I have to switch to daygame....it's just getting painful to keep failing in the clubs....what is it the Brazilian guys are doing in clubs that score girls night in and night out (of course they won't help me!!)??? Is it just the vibe they're projecting as a result of their inner game and success? Do you think girls can feel my frustration or something? It's frustrating to see these other brazilian guys succeeding in the club everyday.
Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Tony Snow25]

What city are living in? It sounds like you are living in Rio. I spent two weeks in Rio so I don't really know that city too well but I spent most of my time in Sao Paulo. I did pretty well in Brazil but it's not a super easy place that some people have hyped up to be. I didn't put up numbers like I'm doing here in Taiwan. Many women have told me I'm good looking but even when I would walk the streets in Rio or in Lapa I wasn't getting approached by any "poor" girls that many say throw themselves at foreign dudes.

In Sao Paulo I've noticed that I did better with college educated girls that were middle to upper class because those are the girls I can relate to more. Also I think being aggressive pays off a lot and dancing is key in foreign countries where there can be a language barrier. I would say go out and have fun and don't put out a desperate vibe. Also if you smoke hit up girls in the smoking areas of clubs and hit the dance floor. If you aren't aggressive and don't dance clubs aren't going to be a good place to meet girls.

[PJEUA]

I'm working in SP unfortunately. I wish it was Rio!
I go for kisses, but am getting turns a lot and "I have a boyfriend." Beyond that I can't really do much more if she rejects my kiss... When I go for escalation/kisses I just get the vibe from a girl like "ew I don't want to kiss a gringo with all my friends watching." I have had a few lays and kisses in clubs. It's just frustrating, depressing, expensive, and time consuming to go out 5+ nights for one success....
Unless I am drunk, which I try not to let happen, I can't really dance. It is just not in my personality.

[Tony Snow25]

Being a foreigner isn't going to give you an advantage but I don't think being a gringo is as much of a deterrent as you say it is. I can't really comment on your success since I don't know how attractive you are, your style or game. Everyones experience is going to be different. I remember Roosh said his Danish friend did very well in Brazil.

[AlphaTravel]

Quote:

I go for kisses, but am getting turns a lot and "I have a boyfriend." Beyond that I can't really do much more if she rejects my kiss...

Yes there is more you can do. This head turning thing is what Latina chicks do so they don't look keen / slutty / desperate. Act like you don't care and keep on dancing, chatting or whatever you were doing and then go in for the kiss again a few moments later. In my experience Latina girls will turn their head a few times to deflect the kiss but eventually give in. If she's not walking away from you when you tried to kiss her the first time or telling you to fuck off she's wanting you to kiss her.

SP is a great city for middle class, educated and beautiful girls who speak English. I love going out there and did OK. What clubs are you going to?

[PJEUA]

(07-01-2012 06:14 AM)Tony Snow25 Wrote:  

Being a foreigner isn't going to give you an advantage but I don't think being a gringo is as much of a deterrent as you say it is. I can't really comment on your success since I don't know how attractive you are, your style or game. Everyones experience is going to be different. I remember Roosh said his Danish friend did very well in Brazil.

Just keeping it honest, I am OK looking. I am not as good looking as the Danish guy though. CERTAINLY better looking than a lot of the guys pulling way more women than me. Heck, not to sound sour and jealous, but I see some really ugly guys dressed very poorly pulling way more women than me. But do you know what I mean about some girls just being 100% resigned to gringo?

[PJEUA]

(07-01-2012 07:28 AM)AlphaTravel Wrote:  

Quote:

I go for kisses, but am getting turns a lot and "I have a boyfriend." Beyond that I can't really do much more if she rejects my kiss...

Yes there is more you can do. This head turning thing is what Latina chicks do so they don't look keen / slutty / desperate. Act like you don't care and keep on dancing, chatting or whatever you were doing and then go in for the kiss again a few moments later. In my experience Latina girls will turn their head a few times to deflect the kiss but eventually give in. If she's not walking away from you when you tried to kiss her the first time or telling you to fuck off she's wanting you to kiss her.

SP is a great city for middle class, educated and beautiful girls who speak English. I love going out there and did OK. What clubs are you going to?

SET, Josephine, places like that, where 80% of the girls are white middle/upper class, but also cheaper places--DEDGE, Vila Mix. It's all the same though right? Same strategy required? The only place the shields were really high was AFAIR. I have not had more or less success in certain clubs. Again the girls are not outright telling me to go away, but seem to just view me as a novelty and not someone they would sleep with. They ask me what I am doing here, sometimes about Facebook, to buy them drinks (only the girls in expensive places do this), I make the group of their friends laugh....but if I try and go after one of the girls in the group rarely do I have a lot of success.

With the kissing I do keep trying, but if she puts her hands up and tells me to stop I don't want to keep going and have her complain to security or something (it has happened).

[PJEUA]

Also, why is being a gringo clearly not an advantage? The stereotype is that it is and you would think girls would be excited and want to talk with you, because the reality is that, even in higher end places, that get frequented by gringoes, on any given night maybe 4/250 people there are gringoes. Go to a no name place and you are probably one of two. Outside of the club, unless the girl is working at a multinational company (unlikely for a 20 yo girl), she probably has next to zero contact with foreign men.. I mean they watch Friends, listen to Lil Wayne, dance to Soulja Boy, take English classes, and then they don't want to get with you?

[Tigre]

It's not obvious for us on the forum to tell you what to change. It could be anything.

You could ask someone to observe you and get an honest read from them. Either a wingman or a girl. Get them to describe as accurately as possible the vibe you're putting out. Ask them to list a few aspects you can concentrate on changing.

What about reaching out to an RVF guy that lives in Sampa?

If I had to take a shot in the dark, based on how you write in this thread. You may need to radiate more social proof and a fun vibe. Are you always alone when you approach? Sometimes you need your own wingman or turma there to help keep you in a fun mood.

You may need to look for alternatives to night game if you're not suited to it.

There's a certain gringo template that's attractive to local girls. More often that not, it's a dude with blond hair, clear eyes and a laid back vibe. I'm guessing you don't match this template.

You've been there three months. If girls thought you were irresistibly lindo, you'd already know it - they would have been telling you every day.

[AlphaTravel]

The stereotype of a gringo being an advantage disappeared about a decade ago. Now only the lower class chicks from favelas and bad neighbourhoods would see a gringo as a status thing. Not to say you can't get a nice Brazilian girl because you can but just being a gringo isn't enough.

Quote:

CERTAINLY better looking than a lot of the guys pulling way more women than me. Heck, not to sound sour and jealous, but I see some really ugly guys dressed very poorly pulling way more women than me. But do you know what I mean about some girls just being 100% resigned to gringo?

So what are they doing right that you're not doing? Watch and learn.

Quote:

SET, Josephine, places like that, where 80% of the girls are white middle/upper class, but also cheaper places--DEDGE, Vila Mix. It's all the same though right? Same strategy required? The only place the shields were really high was AFAIR. I have not had more or less success in certain clubs. Again the girls are not outright telling me to go away, but seem to just view me as a novelty and not someone they would sleep with. They ask me what I am doing here, sometimes about Facebook, to buy them drinks (only the girls in expensive places do this), I make the group of their friends laugh....but if I try and go after one of the girls in the group rarely do I have a lot of success.

I spent around 6 weeks in SP and went to places like D:Edge, Vegas (closed now I think), Fun House, Milos Garage, Astronete and others which names I've long forgotten and girls certainly weren't impressed by me being a gringo but if I put some effort in and approached plenty I could get some girls interested. The most attention I ever had was on Monday nights in D:Edge. Went 4 times and it was always packed with good looking, young, English speaking, students and there were always a few girls who were attracted to gringos and didn't mind showing it. The roof top area was the best place for it when it wasn't raining. Could hang around up there and drink a beer and mingle quite easily, no music so easy to chat.

Have you thought about trying different venues and types of club? You might have more success at other places where your look / vibe etc fits in more.

Quote:

With the kissing I do keep trying, but if she puts her hands up and tells me to stop I don't want to keep going and have her complain to security or something (it has happened).

Obviously in a situation where she'd made it quite obvious she does not want you to kiss her you don't keep going for it. You need to read between the lines and not just push it further and further if she's definitely not interested. What I mean was if a girls dancing / grinding with you or you've been talking for a good amount of time go in for the kiss. If she pulls back in horror and raises her hand to her face you've obviously misread the situation and should back off but if she just turns her head to the side (something which I've seen a lot of Latina chickas do) without making a face or showing she's angry / annoyed but keeps on dancing / talking then usually that's just a game they are playing and if you try again a few minutes later you'll get the kiss. In my experience anyway.

[PJEUA]

(07-01-2012 12:32 PM)Tigre Wrote:  

It's not obvious for us on the forum to tell you what to change. It could be anything.

You could ask someone to observe you and get an honest read from them. Either a wingman or a girl. Get them to describe as accurately as possible the vibe you're putting out. Ask them to list a few aspects you can concentrate on changing.

What about reaching out to an RVF guy that lives in Sampa?

If I had to take a shot in the dark, based on how you write in this thread. You may need to radiate more social proof and a fun vibe. Are you always alone when you approach? Sometimes you need your own wingman or turma there to help keep you in a fun mood.

You may need to look for alternatives to night game if you're not suited to it.

There's a certain gringo template that's attractive to local girls. More often that not, it's a dude with blond hair, clear eyes and a laid back vibe. I'm guessing you don't match this template.

You've been there three months. If girls thought you were irresistibly lindo, you'd already know it - they would have been telling you every day.

Yes I am mostly always alone and the only time I have had success was when I was alone. I went out with some Brazilians from work but they weren't good with girls themselves and were more interested in drinking. Common questions I get are "are you alone here" and "do you live alone"? I'm trying to build a network with some good guys, but this just takes time and even then I don't know if it will work. Everyone is looking out for their own dick it seems and they probably don't really want me to succeed with their women if I had to take a guess. But that is actually one of the biggest problems I see here in Brazil with gringoes--lack of integration with local brazilians. It's why like I said earlier, that the majority of gringoes are not in relationships with 9+ brasileiras.

[j r]

(07-01-2012 11:55 AM)PJEUA Wrote:  

Also, why is being a gringo clearly not an advantage? The stereotype is that it is and you would think girls would be excited and want to talk with you, because the reality is that, even in higher end places, that get frequented by gringoes, on any given night maybe 4/250 people there are gringoes. Go to a no name place and you are probably one of two. Outside of the club, unless the girl is working at a multinational company (unlikely for a 20 yo girl), she probably has next to zero contact with foreign men.. I mean they watch Friends, listen to Lil Wayne, dance to Soulja Boy, take English classes, and then they don't want to get with you?

Not to come down too heavily on you, but you sound like a bizarro version of the Indian Race Troll. It's weird that you expect Brazilian women just to immediately warm to you just because you're a gringo.

Brazil is not the Philippines. Brazil has one of the most dynamic economies in the world. In 2010, the market for commercial real estate in Rio became the most valuable in the world. I know a Brazilian lawyer who told me that what first-year law associates in Brazil are now being paid three times what they were making five years ago. From everything I know, Brazilians are quite happy to remain in Brazil, so it's not like Brazilian women are desperately looking to marry a foreigner. Just what magic is being a gringo supposed to provide for you?

[johnwu]

(07-01-2012 01:12 PM)PJEUA Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 12:32 PM)Tigre Wrote:  

It's not obvious for us on the forum to tell you what to change. It could be anything.

You could ask someone to observe you and get an honest read from them. Either a wingman or a girl. Get them to describe as accurately as possible the vibe you're putting out. Ask them to list a few aspects you can concentrate on changing.

What about reaching out to an RVF guy that lives in Sampa?

If I had to take a shot in the dark, based on how you write in this thread. You may need to radiate more social proof and a fun vibe. Are you always alone when you approach? Sometimes you need your own wingman or turma there to help keep you in a fun mood.

You may need to look for alternatives to night game if you're not suited to it.

There's a certain gringo template that's attractive to local girls. More often that not, it's a dude with blond hair, clear eyes and a laid back vibe. I'm guessing you don't match this template.

You've been there three months. If girls thought you were irresistibly lindo, you'd already know it - they would have been telling you every day.

Yes I am mostly always alone and the only time I have had success was when I was alone. I went out with some Brazilians from work but they weren't good with girls themselves and were more interested in drinking. Common questions I get are "are you alone here" and "do you live alone"? I'm trying to build a network with some good guys, but this just takes time and even then I don't know if it will work. Everyone is looking out for their own dick it seems and they probably don't really want me to succeed with their women if I had to take a guess. But that is actually one of the biggest problems I see here in Brazil with gringoes--lack of integration with local brazilians. It's why like I said earlier, that the majority of gringoes are not in relationships with 9+ brasileiras.

I'm curious, do you do well in the USA? Do you get 8's and 9's there?

Think about it like this, if you were a girl in the USA, and a random, average looking Brazilian guy, with average game, no social circle, no bespoke clothing, not super wealthy, bumps into you at a club, you wouldn't be that excited to meet them. The concept applies to the Brazilian girls who have been turning you down.

You need to work on expanding your network. I would NEVER go out with guys from work unless it was a work related event or we were really tight. I don't understand how you've been down there 3 months yet don't have a blossoming social circle.

Look for all sorts of events going on around down, join some pick up sports team or some athletic stuff, you should always be looking to make connections every day. Once you start to form a network, it should be game over (aka you winning), and that should be happening the moment you set foot in a country.

The problem isn't that the upper class girls refuse to see gringos, the problem is that you aren't being outgoing enough and don't bring enough to the table or aren't able to showcase it properly.

[WestCoast]

Dude you are playing the game wrong.

1. For quick sex go to places with tons of gringos this way you know the girls want gringos
2. For high end clubs like awake in Curitiba or Lique you need a "possy". Rolling into a club without at least 5 girls is a failure. You need to look like you live there. Girls will then open you because you look like an expat, right now you look like a sex tourist - fatality.
3. Don't approach in your fashion. Walk around with a big smile on your face you'll appear more brazillian, only chat girls who are approachable. Walking up to a group of girls solo screams sex tourist. Go walk up to table service dudes say "hey you guys look like ballers you all brazillian". Brazillian dudes want to look like they are the shit, Rey take you in, now u look like a gringo just having "fun" now easier to game. You have to flip the script.

Good luck.

[PJEUA]

(07-01-2012 02:51 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Dude you are playing the game wrong.

1. For quick sex go to places with tons of gringos this way you know the girls want gringos
2. For high end clubs like awake in Curitiba or Lique you need a "possy". Rolling into a club without at least 5 girls is a failure. You need to look like you live there. Girls will then open you because you look like an expat, right now you look like a sex tourist - fatality.
3. Don't approach in your fashion. Walk around with a big smile on your face you'll appear more brazillian, only chat girls who are approachable. Walking up to a group of girls solo screams sex tourist. Go walk up to table service dudes say "hey you guys look like ballers you all brazillian". Brazillian dudes want to look like they are the shit, Rey take you in, now u look like a gringo just having "fun" now easier to game. You have to flip the script.

Good luck.

They certainly don't see me as a sex tourist. Positive. It is cheaper to pay 8s than go to a lot of clubs in Brazil.

[WestCoast]

(07-01-2012 07:11 PM)PJEUA Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 02:51 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Dude you are playing the game wrong.

1. For quick sex go to places with tons of gringos this way you know the girls want gringos
2. For high end clubs like awake in Curitiba or Lique you need a "possy". Rolling into a club without at least 5 girls is a failure. You need to look like you live there. Girls will then open you because you look like an expat, right now you look like a sex tourist - fatality.
3. Don't approach in your fashion. Walk around with a big smile on your face you'll appear more brazillian, only chat girls who are approachable. Walking up to a group of girls solo screams sex tourist. Go walk up to table service dudes say "hey you guys look like ballers you all brazillian". Brazillian dudes want to look like they are the shit, Rey take you in, now u look like a gringo just having "fun" now easier to game. You have to flip the script.

Good luck.

They certainly don't see me as a sex tourist. Positive. It is cheaper to pay 8s than go to a lot of clubs in Brazil.

Yes paying for sex is always cheaper in a 3rd world country but that's a lazy way out of it. It will take a while to morph into a new culture, but as soon as you do you'll feel better about yourself and no longer rely on P4P... I recommend you pay one of these 8's to simply have a 1 hour honest long conversation with you, you'll never pay for sex again, that or you've lost connection with your soul.

[Roosh]

Have you tried another city?

Sao Paulo doesn't get many rave reviews here.

[Edmunds]

I heard the same from a friend of mines who happened to be a White male. He went to Brazil with his Filipino friend who was taller and more cut than he was, the guy also had more game.

His filipino friend ended up getting with a beautiful redhead and a good looking Italian Blonde over there (brazilian of italian descent I guess).

I guess some things are just universal. Game, good body, and an outgoing personality will get you laid in places regardless of skin tone or anything.

[Mrs. Chocolate]

This post is useless without pics! And yes, we could care less that you are a gringo.college educated girls are well traveled in average... And those rich spots itu is allen you csm get. Seems you want.special treatment because you are a gringo...

[Freedom]

So far I've been going out for a week (mostly day time) and three nights in Rio and I've been getting the polar opposites in reactions. I don't have enough data for a city, but probably enough for a part of a city so I'll save that for later.

Here are the reactions for night approaches:
NIGHT OUT 1: Went out to street bars at 11pm and found one with groups pre-gaming. No girls were alone and looking at me, but the bartenders were very talkative with me. (Maybe because they were drinking on the job). I did ask girls for directions (Portuguese) but only got quick responses. Ended up having more luck with foreign women in the hostel.

NIGHT OUT 2: Went to a karaoke bar with a Brasiliero from SP. Karaoke is definitely taken more seriously than in the US. Judges were present 80% of the attendees were participating/cheering. Successfully engaged a few cariocas with shoulder taps and basic greetings. I say few because the place was small with ~40 people. This is the only day I met a cariocas which was fluent in English and showed interest. I numbered closed in minutes, but got questions "so you want to call me to take me to bed?!". My response was "Slow down, I just met you."

However I think I blew it because after she told me she has is leaving, I opened her anti-merikan friend (unknowingly). Got confronted and tried to save myself by saying "I'm outgoing, friendly, and want to introduce girls to my friends".

NIGHT OUT 3: Not worth mentioning because I was really tired and kind of persuaded out to a Lapa "forro" club. I did not get approached just by holding the wall up but did take a bus back to the hostel (to Copacabana) with a french girl at 4AM. I wanted to go out more but caught a soar throat which strained my voice.

DAY TIME RESULTS:
I asked for a lot of directions and and got responses with a few hooks and few "no tendo" of my basic Portuguese. Number closed three girls in three hours. First was a student with b/f (not present) but she said "okay as friends". Second girls just had a huge smile when I was speaking one word per second and asked me for my phone. Another girl on the bus would look down when I talk directly to her. Third woman was walking with me to the metro from a ferry boat and facebook-closed me. I checked out a lot of shopping malls which did not have any attractive employees (maybe 1 in the entire mall).

HOSTEL:
One day I met two Brasilieras at a hostel from Natal which were totally down after I opened them. As soon as they checked in, I told them I had to go to a store and they came with me. Spent an entire day with them, we separated for dinner and met again that night at the hostel. I have to say the one that was really into me was a butterface and I anticipated my first flag because she was totally sensual and affectionate fast. However, what really disgusted me was that, she had a fugly-looking fat brasiliero meet her at the hostel and they started kissing outside that night.


SUMMARY:
Since getting mixed results, I can say that it depends on the cariocas likeability of Merika and where they are from. I'm really surprised most (90%) of the cariocas I met do not speak English since most people here mentioned it's quite common. I guess I haven't found any "patricinhas" yet.

[rudebwoy]

I am not expert on Brazil, your post sounds very similar to what a friend of mine said about SP a few years back. He could not get with the upper quaility girls for the life of him, he learnt the lingo and I would say he is fearless in approaching women.

Just because I guy is "uglier" than you or does not dress as well as you, he is a local and has a big advantage over you.

I have also heard alot of Brazilian women do not like that sexual stereotype, so you been seen as a gringo could be working against you. They are probably wondering what brings you to there country.

Have you tried linking up with a few Roosh locals that live in SP, MrGM for example.

[Saladin]

It sounds like you are not putting in the effort to network.

You've been there for three months. Hustle on the networking front.

Once you have a lot of value in the local area you'll be able to meet girls through that.

Girls seem to trust a foreign guy more if he's with local guys.

[malc]

- Go learn Portuguese hard, your living there. duolingo.com, tutors (http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2010/03/lan...ssons.html) , etc.
- Are you chubby and nerdy? Go fix that. Average young Brazilian is ripped compared to the average young american.

[El Rey]

As other people said, for the love of God learn Portuguese. It's ridiculous to go to a country and expect to get great results without putting in the work to learn the local language. Get a girl as a tutor.

[kazz]

How do women treat you in the states? Thats going to be a good indicator for you.