[beta_plus]

I was in Manhattan over the weekend. I went to a club in midtown. After opening a bunch of DC girls in public health (of all the lousy luck), I opened two cute Russian girls (DC 8.75 and DC 8, Roosh 6.25 and 5.5). We were chatting and I was doing plenty of kino on both and getting good reactions.
As we chat about going out in New York , the 8.75 asks me:
"Why do American men not talk to women?"

I almost choked on my drink trying to not start laughing.

Usually I try to have a bunch of stock answers in my arsenal in case of emergency, but this one threw me for a loop. This girl knew how to shatter my game.

I said that American women throw up very high walls to American men and that many have trouble climbing them (her english was poor). After trying to climb that wall 7 times in a night with no success, number 8 wasn't very tempting.

[Roosh]

Quote:

(DC 8.75 and DC 8, Roosh 6.25 and 5.5)

Heh.

I'm confused... American guys approach a ton more than Ukrainian/Russian. Are they missing that?

Is my time away from the States distorting how American guy game?

[the28]

Just because she said so doesn't make it automatically true.

[beta_plus]

(06-25-2012 07:34 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

(DC 8.75 and DC 8, Roosh 6.25 and 5.5)

Heh.

I'm confused... American guys approach a ton more than Ukrainian/Russian. Are they missing that?

Is my time away from the States distorting how American guy game?

I was a bit confused too. Keep in mind by this point in the night I had drunk a quarter of a bottle of vodka and several beers and her english was not very good, so I'm not going to pretend that my recollection is terrific around the circumstances of the question, but she did ask it.

I saw her later get approached by guys who clearly had bad game - one guy turned out to be a french guy who seemed almost manic who made a hilariously bad attempt to AMOG me with her DC 8 friend - all I had to do was put my arm around her friend and just stand there and smile and nod before he went away. This is a pure guess, but maybe she was just saying that the men that she found attractive were not approaching her.

[Kid Strangelove]

NYC is hit by the recession like any other place.


Hot and even decent looking girls have the option of going drinking for free. No, I don't mean "lets have some boys buy us drinks at this bar", no, I mean they know a club promoter that will feed them a "promoter dinner" and give them FREE vodka from his table all night in order to make the club look good.

The girl thinks "shit, i already pay $2K a month for a shoebox, I might as well save money on alcohol and dinner".
She goes to these dinners and clubs where, thanks to the promoters, the ratio HEAVILY favors women.

Now, dudes have 2 options - spend money to get into the club (usually bottle service), bring more girls with them (and if i knew extra chicks i be fucking them not using them for club leverage) or go to a "normal" bar where its a sausagefest.

So hot chicks hang out at places where theres only hot chicks, and will get approached less because the men are either working (promoters), or nursing their 1K bottle of Goose.


Option 2: yes, you do see hot women here daily, on the street, in the train, etc. They are in places where the average guy wont talk to them, because come on, who really has street and subway game.
But the average guy KNOWS they exist, and thinks that maybe someday the stars will line up in his favor and he will be with one of these girls. So when he sees a girl that's only "DC cute", he will not have the motivation to mack

[Icarus]

(06-24-2012 11:49 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

"Why do American men not talk to women?"

Maybe the answer can be found in this paper:

East European Women and the Battle of the Sexes in American Culture (2004)

Here's the abstract:

Quote:

How do women from patriarchal cultures adapt to gender equality and feminism in the Great Plains? How do women from Eastern Europe change as a result of living in a gender-neutral environment? The study (I) identifies the major cultural differences that Eastern European women perceive between gender-related norms in Eastern Europe and the American Midwest, (2) examines the strategies that women use to cope with these differences, and (3) investigates when encounters with American feminists help and when they hinder immigrants' adaptation.

Eastern European culture is characterized by a greater separation of gender roles and little concern about sexism. Women from this region perceive male and female behavior in American culture as ambiguous and gender-neutral. They observe egalitarian gender relations in the US, but do not prefer the forms of male-female interaction that this involves. They adapt to US culture behaviorally but do not significantly change their values about gender relations. The negative attitude of feminist activists toward gender roles in Eastern Europe often creates resistance toward American ways and slows immigrants' adaptation.

[Arado]

(06-25-2012 09:56 AM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

NYC is hit by the recession like any other place.


Hot and even decent looking girls have the option of going drinking for free. No, I don't mean "lets have some boys buy us drinks at this bar", no, I mean they know a club promoter that will feed them a "promoter dinner" and give them FREE vodka from his table all night in order to make the club look good.

The girl thinks "shit, i already pay $2K a month for a shoebox, I might as well save money on alcohol and dinner".
She goes to these dinners and clubs where, thanks to the promoters, the ratio HEAVILY favors women.

Now, dudes have 2 options - spend money to get into the club (usually bottle service), bring more girls with them (and if i knew extra chicks i be fucking them not using them for club leverage) or go to a "normal" bar where its a sausagefest.

So hot chicks hang out at places where theres only hot chicks, and will get approached less because the men are either working (promoters), or nursing their 1K bottle of Goose.


Option 2: yes, you do see hot women here daily, on the street, in the train, etc. They are in places where the average guy wont talk to them, because come on, who really has street and subway game.
But the average guy KNOWS they exist, and thinks that maybe someday the stars will line up in his favor and he will be with one of these girls. So when he sees a girl that's only "DC cute", he will not have the motivation to mack

You think women would be disproportionately hurt by a recession? The last one hurt manufacturing and construction and wall street (man heavy) at first, only later did female industries like healthcare/education/government suffer.

And I have no idea what these Russian women are talking about - comparing game in Moscow v. New York is universes apart - NYC guys blow Moscow guys out of the water without question - the only thing Russian guys do here is flash their money. The clubs are too loud to spit game and the music doesn't facilitate grinding.

I'd say Moscow is harder to game in though because of the language barrier and hostility/general lower socialability of the population and loud music.

Her American guys don't approach phrase is probably based on a low sample size - maybe the club had a good ratio and it was early in the night?

[MikeCF]

When I'm out, I see more and more groups of American guys who don't talk to women.

It used to be just really nerdy guys who'd sit in a corner, staring creepily at women.

Now most guys tend to just creep.

Here is the average "approach," I see:
* Girl walks by.
* Guy says, "Hey, you're beautiful."

So the girl probably has a lot of guys give her compliments. But it's probably rare that a guy actually approach her with an interesting conversation starter.

[gds555]

To the extent that American men don't talk to women, it has to be in part because of all the exposure they've had to attitudes like the one in the below-linked 2010 article "Stop Hitting on Me", from the Ms. magazine website: http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/08/...ing-on-me/.

(Be sure to read the comments, which express both agreement and disagreement and which in many cases are as interesting as the article itself.)

[T and A Man]

To be clear, are they talking about approaches, or inane conversation-filler in bars. Perhaps these Russian girls aren't meaning about initiating or building report, but just dialogue.

Harry here has said that in his times with Russian women, whilst seeming to aspire to be femnine partners, they actually take an liking in things an intellectual male would find interesting.

I the anglosphere if you're not trying to fuck a girl, or leverage off her to fuck another woman... do you know many women that actually say interesting things? Can they talk about ANYTHING that holds your attention or you find intriguing. I find it a chore to talk to western woman, I am suffering everytime their mouth opens. If there is seemingly nothing in it for me, I am quite simply not going to suffer.

It is obviously going to manifest itself into wider reaching attitudes towards women, because of how bad our women are. We're conditioned to think the art of conversation is wasted with those that follow kardashian-eque wankery.

A Russian woman who can hold an intersting coversation, whilst not getting hit on a lot in Russia, probably does find herself able to engage and conduct in enjoyable dialogue once it starts.

[Greek kamaki]

Germanic women have very high IQs and this makes men from different backgrounds look idiotic when they talk to them.They demand a high conversation constantly stimulating on deep topics for their enjoyment.Everything else sounds trivial, boring and superficial to them.Slavic women on the other hand do not exercise this pressure for stimulating conversation.Even talking about what they ate today is enough for them.

[Hooligan Harry]

I dont know about that Kamaki

Maybe Ukrainian women to some degree and small town girls in the Baltics, but the ones with some sort of education tend to hate frivolous talk. Many Russian and EE are highly educated and actually have a genuine interest in history, politics, economics, etc. Its a language thing too, they are more comfortable in their own native language. So maybe not all Slavs, just the peasants

When you are sitting opposite a 9 and she is telling you that she loves Chess, you start to wonder if its real life. Where I come from, women would not even know how to play checkers, and Chess would see them relegated to social pariah status.

Dont know what to make of the OP as it sounds odd, but perhaps T and A Man summed it up correctly.

[Icarus]

(06-26-2012 01:33 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Germanic women have very high IQs and this makes men from different backgrounds look idiotic when they talk to them.They demand a high conversation constantly stimulating on deep topics for their enjoyment.Everything else sounds trivial, boring and superficial to them.Slavic women on the other hand do not exercise this pressure for stimulating conversation.Even talking about what they ate today is enough for them.

That does not agree with my experience. Sounds like a silly over-generalization.

While I have met a few highly-refined, high-IQ German women, I have to say that the majority of German / Dutch / Scandinavian women I have met were anything but high-IQ. Hey, I lived in Scandinavia once, so what do I know?

Putting all Slavic girls in one bag is ridiculous. Polish and Czech girls are generally not very bright. Russian girls tend to be more intellectually sophisticated. Most Russian girls I know have read Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Gogol, Bulgakov, etc. Russian girls do not embrace phillistinism as easily as Western European chicks. Of course, if you go to Brighton Beach or London, you have to keep in mind that the sample there is not exactly representative of the Russian populace.

[Greek kamaki]

In my opinion polish women are top in terms of academic IQ they just dumb down to date certain nationalities whilethis is not the case with germanic women.Germanics refuse to dumben down.

[Icarus]

(06-26-2012 04:16 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

In my opinion polish women are top in terms of academic IQ they just dumb down to date certain nationalities whilethis is not the case with germanic women.Germanics refuse to dumben down.

Your over-generalizations are absurd and ridiculous. They deserve no serious response.

I would consider a serious response if you were talking about German women. But you used the word "germanic", which means you're putting German, Austrian, German-Swiss, Dutch, Flemish, Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, and Icelandic women in the same bag. I do not believe that Icelandic women share many traits with women from the Austrian Alps.

[Greek kamaki]

You clearly do not get it.All Germanic women whether they are German, Dutch,Danish, Swedish, Austrian or Swiss refuse to dumb down.They are similar in this trait.

[Icarus]

(06-26-2012 04:57 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

You clearly do not get it.All Germanic women whether they are German, Dutch,Danish, Swedish, Austrian or Swiss refuse to dumb down.They are similar in this trait.

You clearly do not get it. Refusing to dumb down is irrelevant if you're dumb. Germanic women have over-inflated egos; they enormously over-estimate their intelligence. Maybe Russian women are just humbler.

[BoiBoi]

Im German, live in Germany and hence, know a lot of Germans. Believe me Kamaki, we have quite a few dumbfucks around. Still, in the "Germanic" countries you have mentioned, the education system is better than in EE and therefore, maybe our bitches are just better educated/well-read.

Coming back to the thread, an Argentinean friend of mine when referring to the German dating/hook-up scene: El problema no son las mujeres, son los hombres.
And its true, last Friday it went to a club and approached a young chick, maybe a 6.5 - 7. She was all dressed up in a little skirt and obviously looking for a hookup. Anyways, she was from Brazil and I banged her later that same night .
Some moment before the banging commenced, I asked her, when she got to my country and how many dudes have approached her. Her answer, 3 days ago and none. Put this same chick in any club or bar in Argentina, Spain or Italy and she would have gotten approached upon her arrival.
Good for me, less competition!

[Icarus]

(06-26-2012 06:09 AM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Still, in the "Germanic" countries you have mentioned, the education system is better than in EE and therefore, maybe our bitches are just better educated/well-read.

You cannot convert retards into geniuses even if you spend billions on the education system. Germany has a superior industry, and a superior organization of society, but these are a legacy of the past, and Germany is no longer a country of geniuses. This should come as no surprise, since WWI and WWII were quite dysgenic.

[BoiBoi]

(06-26-2012 06:20 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

(06-26-2012 06:09 AM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Still, in the "Germanic" countries you have mentioned, the education system is better than in EE and therefore, maybe our bitches are just better educated/well-read.

You cannot convert retards into geniuses even if you spend billions on the education system. Germany has a superior industry, and a superior organization of society, but these are a legacy of the past, and Germany is no longer a country of geniuses. This should come as no surprise, since WWI and WWII were quite dysgenic.

No, you cannot and I dont believe that Germany ever was a country of geniuses. Still, a good education system is able to turn a dumb fuck into an educated dumb fuck who appears to be more intelligent than his uneducated counterparts.

[Icarus]

(06-26-2012 06:43 AM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

No, you cannot and I dont believe that Germany ever was a country of geniuses. Still, a good education system is able to turn a dumb fuck into an educated dumb fuck who appears to be more intelligent than his uneducated counterparts.

Indeed. But inflating the ego of dumb fucks so that they appear more intelligent is very expensive. Maybe it would be healthier to ensure that dumb fucks are useful and not merely educated. Actually, in this aspect, I would dare to say that Germany does an excellent job, much better than the U.S. doubtlessly.

[Deb Auchery]

(06-24-2012 11:49 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

I was in Manhattan over the weekend. I went to a club in midtown. After opening a bunch of DC girls in public health (of all the lousy luck), I opened two cute Russian girls (DC 8.75 and DC 8, Roosh 6.25 and 5.5). We were chatting and I was doing plenty of kino on both and getting good reactions.
As we chat about going out in New York , the 8.75 asks me:
"Why do American men not talk to women?"

I almost choked on my drink trying to not start laughing.

Usually I try to have a bunch of stock answers in my arsenal in case of emergency, but this one threw me for a loop. This girl knew how to shatter my game.

I said that American women throw up very high walls to American men and that many have trouble climbing them (her english was poor). After trying to climb that wall 7 times in a night with no success, number 8 wasn't very tempting.

There is some truth in this. I remember when I was a little bit shy with approaching some years ago. I was talking to a hot leggy Russian in a London club, took me a while to approach her, then something went wrong, maybe I was acting Beta

Turns out she said to my friend "Oh I like your friend, but he's not forward enough!". she was probably shocked I didn't try to drag her home and fuck her

[Julius_Cesar]

(06-26-2012 01:33 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Germanic women have very high IQs and this makes men from different backgrounds look idiotic when they talk to them.They demand a high conversation constantly stimulating on deep topics for their enjoyment.Everything else sounds trivial, boring and superficial to them.Slavic women on the other hand do not exercise this pressure for stimulating conversation.Even talking about what they ate today is enough for them.

What has to do germanic women with white american ones? White american ones, even wasp are hardly germany but more "anglo-celtic" their physical appearance and more so character is way different. I dont see any similarity between scandinavian, dutch and german women with your average american women, in fact I find germanic women much more sincere and direct when they like something, than your anglo-celtic women from North America, Britain, Australia ,etc. Also I think that germanic women are much more into the dark looks than american women are (who still prefer tall, muscular fair looking men), and I dont mean specifically black males, but guys perceived as dark (think in christiano ronaldo or enrique iglesias types). In anglo-celtic countries dark guys are way too common since nearly half of the population ( if not more) has quite dark hair, and brown eyes are common too. I doubt a dark haired guy will be a novelty in Ireland compared to the attention he would drawn from local girls in finland. Anglo-celtic women in my experience prefer blonde males, because the vast majority is naturally in the brown/black hair and opposites do surely attract (in most of the cases anyways). Thats why in the anglo world you see only 1 blond male for every 10 blonde females, because its obvious those women are nearly always bleached.



Let alone more than a few white american women are mainly italian descent, specially in places like dc or jersey.

Also you cannot put all "germanic" people in the same bag, the same with slavic. Polish people are way different than russian/ukranians, so are the swiss-german and austrian people from danes. In fact the austrians are probably closer to czech people (predominantly slavic) than they are to further away germanic groups ( dutch, northern germans, scandinavians, icelanders)

on topic. wow rosh scale must be very strict.

[Hooligan Harry]

(06-26-2012 06:43 AM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

(06-26-2012 06:20 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

(06-26-2012 06:09 AM)BoiBoi Wrote:  

Still, in the "Germanic" countries you have mentioned, the education system is better than in EE and therefore, maybe our bitches are just better educated/well-read.

You cannot convert retards into geniuses even if you spend billions on the education system. Germany has a superior industry, and a superior organization of society, but these are a legacy of the past, and Germany is no longer a country of geniuses. This should come as no surprise, since WWI and WWII were quite dysgenic.

No, you cannot and I dont believe that Germany ever was a country of geniuses. Still, a good education system is able to turn a dumb fuck into an educated dumb fuck who appears to be more intelligent than his uneducated counterparts.

The Germans contributed more to the advancement of systems and technology than any other nation on the planet in the last 80 years. Nasa's entire space program was built off the foundations set by Germans. In fact, German scientists were brought to the USA en masse after the war and their impact on the world as a whole has been monumental. There were so technically advanced by the end of the war they were almost 2 decades ahead of everyone else. They would have had nuclear power in the early 40's if they could have sourced materials for it.

Yep, what a bunch of dumb fucks

Highly intelligent people, and the suggestion that its just an education system turning retards into capable retards is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard someone say.

Education will never be a substitute for intelligence and they are not the same thing

[Moma]

Harry, your statement on intelligence vs education is interesting and one that I have discussed with peers for the past decade or so. Can you break down what intelligence is?

Are there any external factors that lead a group of people to become more intelligent than others or is it entirely down to genetics?

For instance, the Japanese have made huge bounds in terms of advancements in technology and what have you in the past what 30 years (don't quote me on time span, I've just heard they are ahead).

Is this down to an innate intelligence on their side or is it just sheer hard work?