[trey]

Hey guys,

Thinking about doing a test run of a functional beverage idea I had: a ready-to-drink product with the aim of boosting focus/concentration ability in addition to a caffeine kick, using a combo of additional 'nootropic' ingredients e.g. (cito)choline, piracetam, N-acetyl-cysteine, etc. Caffeine content would be similar to a Red Bull.

The marketing/branding would differentiate the product from the current energy drink brands by selling the focus/cognitive gains from the special ingredients (as well as perhaps the general brain healthiness effects). It would be marketed initially to students (better for cramming than Red Bull) and suit-wearing careers (finance, consulting, etc) in big-city markets (currently London, although NYC ideal as well for a launch).

Based on what I've seen in researching the existing competition, I think the functional beverage market is moving toward more specific functions in the short-medium term, e.g. brain health, aphrodisiacs, hangover relief, coconut water, coffee with added aminos to mitigate caffeine jitters, etc.

If you saw something like this on the shelf next to the Red Bulls, would you give it a shot?

All feedback welcome. Thanks guys.

[Black Quixote]

For this type of venture, even if it had marginal results, it's completely dependent on the marketing/packaging and design. The Branding for all alcoholic or otherwise beverages are the bread and butter. I've seen some straight crap products that were Marketed so well they performed well. I've seen great products not be able to do a damn thing.

PM me, I'd be interested in discussing this with you extensively.

[Kickb]

Theres a drink that just came out that focuses different brain function. Ill try to remember the name.

They varities I have seen are

Focus
Relaxation and sleep
Energy
Iq boost

The thing is these drinks tastes like shit. I would much rather have a more redbull/energy drink taste than one that tastes like juice and gross milk.

[RichieP]

It's a good idea in that it would probably sell. You could market the shit out of it here in Asia, and make a ton of money, Im sure. They LOVE all sorts of "effect" drinks... they have performance drinks, collagen drinks, soy amino drinks... and anything western is even better.

But! its not something I would personally be into from a health standpoint. Not to piss on your idea, but honestly to me these things feel too quick-fix, when I know the answer to brain function is good diet, lowering inflammation, exercise, etc. Nootropics have side effects, even l-tryptophan messes your brain chemistry, downregulates neurotransmitters, etc. I know piracetam should ideally be cycled as it has side effects. Dont think I'd drink it, but Im sure people would.

[R Smoov]

I'd give it a shot. I dont have the financial/busimess skills, but give me a shirt and I'll advertise.

[Kickb]

Its called nuero sonic

[Caligula]

(06-18-2012 11:12 AM)Black Quixote Wrote:  

For this type of venture, even if it had marginal results, it's completely dependent on the marketing/packaging and design. The Branding for all alcoholic or otherwise beverages are the bread and butter. I've seen some straight crap products that were Marketed so well they performed well. I've seen great products not be able to do a damn thing.

PM me, I'd be interested in discussing this with you extensively.

This is an important point. Marketing and distribution is everything when it comes to beverages. Preferably you need someone local who has the contacts or at least the expertise to get the product in front of customers.

[AntiTrace]

well you may as well try. I would rather regret failing at something than regret never trying it. And chances are your first couple ventures are going to fail, so you may as well get them out of the way sooner rather than later.

I wouldn't buy it, but I don't buy any of those types of drinks except for the occasional red bull and vodka.

Just remember needs based entrepreneurship. Don't do something you love. Fill a need someone else has.

[sheesh]

You'll have to check whether the ingredients are ok for otc use. You need a prescription to buy Piracetam in my country.

[_DC_]

(06-18-2012 11:12 AM)Black Quixote Wrote:  

For this type of venture, even if it had marginal results, it's completely dependent on the marketing/packaging and design. The Branding for all alcoholic or otherwise beverages are the bread and butter. I've seen some straight crap products that were Marketed so well they performed well. I've seen great products not be able to do a damn thing.

PM me, I'd be interested in discussing this with you extensively.

^This^

Red Bull is crap, tastes like crap, and is basically a few cheap ingredients. It was 99% marketing that blew Red Bull up. Most people are too stupid to have any idea what ingredients are in something or what they do. These are the same people that will pay 5x more for a name-brand drug that is exactly the same chemically as a generic drug without the fancy commercials.

5 Hour Energy is exactly the same. Cherry flavored syrup with B-Complex vitamins in it. The mark up is insane. You can get a 100 pills of B-Complex for like $6. Again, marketing.

[trey]

Thanks for the feedback all.

(06-18-2012 12:28 PM)kickboxer Wrote:  

Its called nuero sonic

Yes, I went out and got some of this as research after I had the idea. It works OK, but it could be better. Also, the marketing and packaging are definitely more 'luxury good' oriented, and somewhat female. I don't think you'll catch too many guys openly carrying those fruity bottles down the street. It made more sense when I found out who the owner of the company is - a wealthy woman married to the highest-salaried banker in the UK, with a bunch of A-list American and UK celebs as friends. Definite disadvantage that she is a competitor, but good in that it validates the market for such a product.

My product would be more utilitarian in nature (ie packaging and branding focus), like Red Bull +.

(06-18-2012 11:37 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

It's a good idea in that it would probably sell. You could market the shit out of it here in Asia, and make a ton of money, Im sure. They LOVE all sorts of "effect" drinks... they have performance drinks, collagen drinks, soy amino drinks... and anything western is even better.

Yes, Asia loves functional drinks, my first attempt was in Asia with a protein drink. (Have fun waiting 18 months for your idea to get through the FDA equivalent, heh.) I'm not sure the Asian markets I'm most familiar with are ready for a nootropic function though. Maybe the hustling big cities in China, Japan, and Korea, but not SE Asia outside of maybe Singapore.

(06-18-2012 11:37 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

But! its not something I would personally be into from a health standpoint. Not to piss on your idea, but honestly to me these things feel too quick-fix, when I know the answer to brain function is good diet, lowering inflammation, exercise, etc.

I agree. However it may sell (tell Red Bull that people will have lots of natural energy if they eat well, see if they care..). And the marketing would have a 'healthy lifestyle' bent, encouraging a good diet, and suggesting the drink as an additional tool.

(06-18-2012 03:35 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

You'll have to check whether the ingredients are ok for otc use. You need a prescription to buy Piracetam in my country.

Yeah, in the US, piracetam is probably a no-go because it seems to be a gray area legally at the moment. It's OK in the UK, but not sure I'd want to include it because different people seem to have very different reactions to it. There are other effective combinations of neuro goodies that would work. Would probably hire a neuroscience grad student to ensure they play nicely together.

[Sebastian]

Not trying to be an asshole but are you from a very wealthy family?

First of all, it's all about the distribution. it's very hard to put your product on the shelf. putting your product means another product has to go for your space. you won't notice it as a consumer but the competition is very brutal behind.

marketing? we all know there is nothing special about the redbull. I think people buy it because of its recognition.
we are talking thousands of dollars just to make people think 'hm I saw that brand somewhere' which might not lead to buying.

I don't know maybe you can approach mom n pops stores (owned by an individual so you don't have to go through corporate office for them to carry your product) and have them carry your products with 100% return guarantee.....but what about bottling company? what would be their minimum order for them to produce private labeled products?

[trey]

(06-18-2012 06:29 PM)Sebastian Wrote:  

Not trying to be an asshole but are you from a very wealthy family?

No - don't worry, the idea of the thread is to find weaknesses in the idea / plan.

Re: distribution: I read recently that the Vitamin Water guy distributed solely through mom and pop and other small outlets for 3 years when he started, and this allowed to him to have leverage by the time the big guys even noticed him. He eventually sold to Coke for $4.2 billion cash. Just sayin', heh. In terms of what my actual plan may be, it would be some combo of this and pitching/trying to make connections at trade shows, and moving up the chain. I have a few other ideas for unorthodox distribution deals that might work or might be insane. All that said, I'm completely new to this game and open to suggestions from people who have done anything similar before.

Re: bottling: minimum orders are around 5k bottles usually, I've found. Costs about $7500 for this, depending on many factors obviously. I'm not from a rich family, and if I go forward with this, will write up a more formal plan and pitch to friends, friends of friends, and possibly biz angels locally.

Re: marketing: I think the playing field has leveled quite a bit with social media marketing and 'viral' campaigns, etc. Also, I was recently a student in this country and know where they all hang out in London. Could start there and try to build from the bottom up.

[MikeCF]

Yeah, man, I hate to sound like a hater or downer....

But I'm into nootropics and have followed the market.

Read the label of the stuff that sells...it's caffeine, b vitamins, and pixie dust (too small amounts of ingridents like ginko).

Very tough market to break into even if you have a superior product.

Hell, look at Biotest. They have the marketing power of T-Nation and 10,000s of fan boys. Their Spike shooter made it into 711 but isn't a Huge Deal like Red Bull.

VPX is a big company that got its Redline into a few gas stations.

This isn't a market where people don't have a clue. Biotest knows its shit, for instance, and all it really did was throw some caffeine and B vitamins into a drink that doesn't taste like shit.

The best nootropics take about weeks of consistent use to notice a difference. (I use piracetam, which needs a solid 14 days to do anything.)

People who buy an energy drink want a quick rush - i.e., 200mg of caffeine and some B vitamins.

Even if you made the best nootropic drink, if it didn't give that rush, it'd fail.

Best luck, man. I hate discouraging what - in a perfect world - would be a good idea.

But this isn't a market I'd try to enter or that I'd invest in without having a super legit strategy.

[MikeCF]

Look, you guys want an energy drink that is scientifically proven to work?

Get piracetam powder and mix it with Choline powder.

Take a gram of piracetam and 1-2x as much Choline.

Mix it with water, coffee, hot tea...whatever.

If you source the stuff in bulk, should run you about 50 cents a pop.

In two weeks.....................................................Report back to this thread with a royalty check to me.

[Neo]

(06-18-2012 11:02 AM)trey Wrote:  

Based on what I've seen in researching the existing competition, I think the functional beverage market is moving toward more specific functions in the short-medium term, e.g. brain health, aphrodisiacs, hangover relief, coconut water, coffee with added aminos to mitigate caffeine jitters, etc.

The market is moving towards niche type drinks. I think it's a good idea, but the major issue I see is the competition with large corporations who are already doing this and developing these types of products. They also have multi-million dollar budgets and a team of scientists who will back up their claims with real data.

With that said like the other posters have stated, if you market it correctly you could make money, but to me it seems like a lot would be based on luck.

If you decide to pursue this idea, I would do it soon. The shit that it's development is pretty crazy. Take this as insider info.

[thegmanifesto]

(06-18-2012 06:55 PM)trey Wrote:  

All that said, I'm completely new to this game and open to suggestions from people who have done anything similar before.

I will give the same advice I give you anyone on here with an idea.

You want to start a beverage company?

Go to work for a beverage company.

This way:

1. You will have connections when you break off on your own.

2. You will understand how the biz works.

3. You will know if you love it or hate it on someone else's dime.

[MikeCF]

Biotest just did Brain Candy.

Joe Rogan did Alpha Brain. (It's a pill, but it's the same concept.)

What used to be a very small subculture is getting mainstream. You are smart to recognize the trend.

The problem is that the supplement/energy drink industry requires millions $$$ in marketing.

Most bodybuilding magazines...owned by supplement companies. The supplement companies pay millions to publish magazines that are basically ads.

If you can build up an audience through grass roots...Anything is possible.

Like I noted, above, there are already "energy drink" formulations. I take nootropics every day. The knowledge is out there.

Thus, it's not an issue of product formulation that is keeping Red Bull or Monster or Biotest or Joe Rogan from crushing it.

But maybe you'll be the guy to do it.

Someone has to win, after all. Why not you?

[trey]

Mike: Agree with all your points; thanks for the feedback. The point about it taking a while for piracetam-based combos to be effective is definitely an especially good one. However, I think there will be room for quite a few people to make money as the industry grows over the next few years. There might also be several other ways to play the trend: think of a cognition booster / brain health drink for old people. Completely different marketing channels than the bodybuilding/supp community at the moment. Or, coffee with theanine...etc etc.

From an entrepreneurship standpoint, I'd be wanting to hustle on one of these ideas for a few years until a larger company wants to buy their way into the market. Pretty high M&A activity in the beverage sector in recent years.

[trey]

(06-18-2012 07:31 PM)Neo Wrote:  

If you decide to pursue this idea, I would do it soon. The shit that it's development is pretty crazy. Take this as insider info.

Do tell, man. If you can, heh.

[AlphaTravel]

I don't know whether this would work or not but I'd probably try it out and see what it was like.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Red Bull tastes like shit, never understood why people drink it. Someone told me Red Bull aren't actually an energy drink company but actually just a marketing and sponsoring company and they stick their name on anything they think will make money and they can market. Don't know how true it is because I never looked into.

[defguy]

A student at my alma mater started an energy drink. Blew up, went into the local stores ie all the VALERO's and SHELL gas stations. Its called "Nerd Energy." Its kind of like Redline or Spike as one other poster mentioned, didnt blow up but its making serious cash. the main reason it went viral in my town is because the school newspaper published an article on it, the school pitched in with all its connections to try to blow it the fuck up, makes the school look good if its students are successful entrepreneurs. The thing about NERD, it sucks, mostly caffeine, but great name and cool looking design on the bottle. Make a legit drink kind of like 5 hr energy, shitload of b vitamins and some REAL nootropics like pirecetam and lethecin (sp?) and your good to go. My advice, get a "partner" or two from a local university, leak a press release to student newspaper, and let those business "partners" (preferably marketing students with HUGE pipe dreams who will work for promised future revenues) to bug the shit out of administration and possible investors to push your product.

[kosko]

(06-18-2012 07:32 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(06-18-2012 06:55 PM)trey Wrote:  

All that said, I'm completely new to this game and open to suggestions from people who have done anything similar before.

I will give the same advice I give you anyone on here with an idea.

You want to start a beverage company?

Go to work for a beverage company.

This way:

1. You will have connections when you break off on your own.

2. You will understand how the biz works.

3. You will know if you love it or hate it on someone else's dime.

THIS.

The real money is working WITH Red Bull.

Tryign to compete with them and grab crumbs is a fools game.

Red Bull IMO is the easiest 'top flight' lifestyle company to connect with. They will throw money and contacts at anybody with a solid idea to help their brand.

Red Bull became massive by basically giving legit pople the green light to use thier name on lifestyle events that we're already taking place (then they moved to create there own after that). They have been good people to me and my homies espeically. These mofos feed me, get my ass drunk, AND pay me.



IMO I think your late to the party tho OP. I think trying to crack in about 5-6 years ago would of been prime. At that time a lot of big players will still late and we're throwing a ton of money to scoop up small start ups that had good formulations and then just throwing the branding behind it.

Look for trends that aren't mainstream yet. Then get yourself in position to ride the way up and cash out at the top.

If you have an idea and its already on a mass scale... your too late. Think of something to be the anti-thesis to that trend or find a new emerging one. (i.e. the RVF poster whom had the idea to invest in tattoo removal technology in 5-10 years this will be huge)

[Kingp1n]

(06-18-2012 07:22 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Look, you guys want an energy drink that is scientifically proven to work?

(06-19-2012 05:07 AM)kosko Wrote:  

[quote] (06-18-2012 07:32 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

All that said, I'm completely new to this game and open to suggestions from people who have done anything similar before.

Trying to compete with them and grab crumbs is a fools game.

Red Bull IMO is the easiest 'top flight' lifestyle company to connect with. They will throw money and contacts at anybody with a solid idea to help their brand.

I agree with MikeCF and Koskos... the barriers to entry is ridiculous for the beverage industry. I would try to make sure that the product is different and scientifically proven to work. Then I would approach the big beverage companies and sell/market the idea to them for a licensing and/or royalty fee. and call it a day. Here is a link to get you started. http://www.euromonitor.com/soft-drinks

[RawGod]

It's a good idea. Approach it as only one of the many ideas you have as a budding entrepreneur, sift through them, start small, crash and burn or make some wins, then when you have the experience, cash and connections, you can go for something big like this.