[Magic Bullets]

I would be interested in doing durational handstands, can you suggest a good site? My Bench is increasing nicely, I try to increase by a rep each week and am aiming to do 5x10 in a few weeks with 80kg. My goal is not outright mass building as I am just over 11 stone. I feel I can still increase my Bench without taking in excess calories. I would say I train quite well on around 3,000 calories per day or under. I am on my feet walking and riding for around 3-4 hours plus daily. My deadlifts are around 142-145kg, near enough to double my bodyweight for 5x5 without using straps. I do have olympic rings in my home gym, haven't been able to find a good program for using them which has progressions. For pressups I can probably do over 100 on a good day, I just try to be consistant with them and do them regularly. I am also considering adding running for a 1 mile. My only worry is, will it interfere with my strength?

[Spike]

(06-09-2012 08:07 AM)metalhaze Wrote:  

"Incline bench is the most useless of pressing movements when it comes to chest development. Flat benching is not very optimal since the strongest function of the pec major is pulling the arm downwards not horizontally extending the hands."


According to Bill Starr Weightlifter and powerlifter guru, the incline press is far superior to the benchpress.

excessive use of the benchpress can lead to shoulder problems.
The standing press is also a great exercise.

I think i will take this advice and start with incline bench pressing from now on instead on flat benching to the max.
My shoulder (below the collarbone) is starting to hurt every time I go for maximum force a few weeks. It's an old injury which is also a bit stress related too. Whenever i'm stressed I start pulling my shoulder a few inches up resulting in constant muscle use and stress. For me it's also a good indicator for when i'm not feeling at ease/insecure about something.

[Hades]

(07-25-2012 02:26 AM)Magic Bullets Wrote:  

I would be interested in doing durational handstands, can you suggest a good site? My Bench is increasing nicely, I try to increase by a rep each week and am aiming to do 5x10 in a few weeks with 80kg. My goal is not outright mass building as I am just over 11 stone. I feel I can still increase my Bench without taking in excess calories. I would say I train quite well on around 3,000 calories per day or under. I am on my feet walking and riding for around 3-4 hours plus daily. My deadlifts are around 142-145kg, near enough to double my bodyweight for 5x5 without using straps. I do have olympic rings in my home gym, haven't been able to find a good program for using them which has progressions. For pressups I can probably do over 100 on a good day, I just try to be consistant with them and do them regularly. I am also considering adding running for a 1 mile. My only worry is, will it interfere with my strength?

Check out beastskills.com or google "al kavadlo". Both of those guys are big on handstands. Both of those guys have good advice on olympic ring progressions as well (front and back levers, muscle ups).

At 11 stone (~150 pounds I think), a 300 pound deadlift is impressive.

Running 1 mile isn't bad in itself but doesn't fit in a strength program. Doing cardio for long periods of time (2 miles or more) is a good way to burn muscle. If you do a lot of jogging or running, you'll find your deadlift numbers drop.
For not interfering with strength work, long walks and short sprints are a better idea.

[Lothario]

Alright Guys here is my progress in 6 weeks since I posted this. I weigh 170 # now

1. Bench press 185 x 3 ( 1st set 155 x 5, 2nd set 175 x 5, 3rd set 185 X 3)

2. Squat 275 X 5

3. Deadlift 275 X 5

Thanks to all the members for Input, My Benchpress has gone up atleast 10 pounds from 175 to 185, slow progress ? Here is what I a have been differently.

Not counting my calories as strictly and have gained about 10 pounds in bodyweight. (All going to my belly but I look a little big on the upper body as well)

went up on Deadlifts and Squats

using spotters as much as I can

Eating more protein.atleat 200 gm/day if not more.

Slowy increased reps first then weight, continuing with creatine and fish oil.

I will keep up the hard work with Goal of crossing 200 # and also work on some of the other suggestions being posted.

[Moma]

(06-05-2012 11:35 PM)that guy Wrote:  

Heres how I've increased my bench from 185 to 300 lbs. It took me about 3 years.

On bench day, do flat bench with a barbell, flat bench with dumbbells, incline bench with a barbell, and incline bench with dumbbells. Usually with something in between, like light biceps exercises, or pullups, nothing chest related though.

Always be increasing at least 1 of the 4 chest exercises. You might plateau on flat bench with a barbell, but maybe incline bench with dumbbells will be increasing. Once that plateaus, go back to flat bench and try to increase that by 5 lbs or so. Soon all 4 of your lifts will be increasing steadily. You don't need to increase anything by alot, for example, maybe I moved up from 75lb dumbells to 80 lb dumbells for flat bench, and the next week I move up flat bench with a barbell 225 lbs to 230 lbs.

I'm sure there are other ways and better ways, but this is how I did it.

And I never had more than a 40 gram protein shake, but I was taking creatine.

How much protein were you taking daily? How long were you on creatine for? Did you load? Did you cycle the creatine?

[lurker]

I did a Smolov routine for squats and a Smolov Jr. for bench recently. Both 1RMs had been plateaued. I added 20 lbs to my bench and at least 40 to my squat in 4 weeks each.

[Jazzman92]

I just recently benched 225 lbs x 3 reps. About a month ago I was only doing 185 lb x 2 reps.

The first thing I realized with my bench press was that my shoulders were giving out before i finished my set so i began working out my shoulders more so they felt more stable as I did my bench press.

One chest workout routine that was very effective for me in order to increase my bench press in short period of time was beginning with heavier weight and lower rep ranges (but without going to failure because I didn't have a spotter) and finishing with high volume but a lower amount of weight.

The way I did it was like this:

I began by warming up with 135lbs, 10 reps for 2 sets on the flat bench with the barbell.
Next I did 3 reps x 6 sets with a heavy but manageable weight with the barbell.
Then I went to incline bench and did 5x5 with 135 lbs barbell.
after this I did dumbbell press on the flat bench 10 reps for 3 sets but with only 55 lb dumbells and I also did a superset with 10 reps of flys with 25 lb dumbells and 5 push ups after each set.
I finished by doing 3 sets of dips, each set until failure.

Another thing that has improved the quality of my workouts in the gym is taking BCAAs. I take 10 g right before I begin my workout and I feel like I have more energy when I take them.

[Major Tom]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned working more on back development. In my opinion, that is one of the biggest things you can do to make a quick improvements in your pressing strength, whether it's overhead or lying down on a bench. Any sort of upper body pressing involves using the muscles of the back (latissimus dorsi, rhomboids, traps) as a platform from which to press. Having strong lats helps keep your upper body tight and anchored to the bench, and to help create a nice "groove" in which to lower the bar and then back up. OP should try adding some more pulling work into his program. Exercises like dumbbell rows (or better yet Kroc Rows), chins, shrugs, and minor accessory work like face pulls and band pull aparts (great for supersetting with your pushing exercises) will work wonders if you do them consistently. Don't think of the bench press solely in terms of the prime movers (chest, triceps, anterior deltoids) but be mindful of the other muscles that create the stability and optimal position from which to press. It's also great for shoulder health as well.

[CaP7]

Work on your grip. Hold the bar as tight as you can and act like you're knocking on a door. Better grip engages more muscles through the lift, thus making you stronger. Work on grip.

Stretch your specs. Stand in a corner, arms out, body in. After a chest workout, do two reps of holding dumbbells in the lowest position on the bench. 60 seconds each. Stretched specs allow more room for growth.

Activate rombiods. This helps pull your shoulders back. Better posture, more strength.

[WesternCancer]

@majortom

That helped me a lot in getting my bench up, its still shitty, but its getting better.
A few more things.

- play around with grip widths and make sure you don't have a break in your wrist. I bench with a relatively close grip. I tried wider grips, but I was very weak in those.

- LEG DRIVE!!!!! try to get your ass as close to your shoulder blades but keep your ass on the bench. Push through your heels with all your might, feet must remain on the ground at all times.

- don't just smush your shoulder blades together/flex your traps for your support base. Pretend you're wrapping your back around and down something (hard to describe). I usually Shrug my shoulders up then do a semi-circle flexing the entirety of my lats pushing my chest out.

[Moma]

Started up the gym again and I find that my front delts are sore and not so much my chest. I think from my physique or perhaps training style that my chest doesn't get the recruitment it should from training.
Any suggestions on how I can take the shoulders out of my chest training?

I did flat bench, incline bench, incline dumbell presses and cable crossovers.
I'm going to experiment with changing my grip to thumbless to take forearms out of the equation.

Help mucho appreciated. Gracias.

[dog24]

Do you work rear delts and back enough? My physio told me many years ago that my chest was owerpowering my physique so i was hunching a bit, its a very common problem when guys focus too much on bench. Also squezee your shoulder blades together not only will it take work off your shoulders youll eventually get injured if you dont. Suicide grip is called that way because people have died doing that stupid shit.

[Moma]

(07-13-2013 11:24 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

Do you work rear delts and back enough? My physio told me many years ago that my chest was owerpowering my physique so i was hunching a bit, its a very common problem when guys focus too much on bench. Also squezee your shoulder blades together not only will it take work off your shoulders youll eventually get injured if you dont. Suicide grip is called that way because people have died doing that stupid shit.

I don't work delts at all with any isolation work as I find they are quite prominent and always kick in for all my pressing exercises. For back, I usually do pullups (body weight with supinated grip) as a staple, lat pulldowns, some standing rows, dumbbell rows.

I used to pre-exhaust the shoulders in the past on the recommendation of someone at a gym I used to go to with some lateral raises, seated dumbbell presses and some flat flyes.

Not sure if I should get back into that..I just want a workout where my chest is painful as opposed to just shoulders mainly and a tad bit of chest.

[Kieran]

To the OP, stronglifts, which is based on even sets of 5 reps across, is not a great way to gain strength at all. You might want to consider a program like Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 or Joe De Franco's version of Westside. These programs have you working up to a set of max reps on the major lifts, with plenty of options for assistance movements worked into the program, and should be far more effective in helping you hit your goal of a 1.5 BW bench.

I wouldn't eat your way through the plateau either, as that will take you further from your goal of a 1.5 bench. Just continue to eat at a slight excess.

Also, watch the Dave Tate videos that were posted earlier in the thread.

[Hades]

It's been a year since I last posted in this thread and am not surprised to see that I was recommending handstands to everybody.

Anyway one tip I can offer about upping bench press numbers is to execute full upper body tension, grab the bar and destroy it with your grip while tensing every muscle in your upper body.

The other tip I can offer is that most people can't press (bench or military) worth a shit because they can't even do one dip or ten pushups. It's much easier to increase these numbers than with the bench press because you do not need a spotter. You don't even need a gym. Dips and pushups can be trained six days a week if desired and all you would need are two sturdy chairs once you've worked your way to dips.
In my opinion, this is where all pressers (bench and military) should begin.

So here's the basic steps - spend a month or two doing a program like 100 pushups, then take a week off. Try to get to a point where you can do at least sixty pushups in a sitting.

Then take two or three months at a dip station, at first do nothing but dip negatives - like four sets of 8-10 reps; done four times per week.

Then keep doing dips until you are repping your bodyweight (go down until your thumbs get close to your armpits, cheating the rep is bullshit and won't help you) at the dip station for 20 reps at a crack. Once you can do two to four sets of 15-20 reps, you can either keep going by using a weight belt and lowering the set/rep scheme to something like three sets of 3-5 reps (recommended for use in conjunction with back off sets of pushups). Be careful with this because you can snap your shoulders up in a hurry.

If you did all that correctly and your 5 rep max at the bench press isn't somewhere around body weight, go back to doing dips and a few sets and reps of weighted dips every other workout; what's likely here is that you were cheating reps or rushed it too quickly. The pushup to dip negative to dip, potentially to weighted dips - (and you can go to doing strict dips on XR rings or experiment with Bulgarian dips on parallel bars if you want to get ambitious) - should take about six months if you have started at a fairly low strength level. It's hard work.

Military press is a different animal but if you're doing two to four sets of 20 reps of bodyweight dips I don't see why you shouldn't be military pressing something like 60-70% of bodyweight. If anything dips (and the durational handstands mentioned earlier) will provide a very good foundation.

[DLZ]

One thing to do while you're benching is to REALLY squeeze the bar -- like you want to bend it. A powerlifting buddy told me to do this, and it really helped me stabilize my wrists and forearms when I bench.

Also, time under tension and proper range of motion are absolutely crucial. The bar should hit your chest and if you've been benching like I used to (half rom) that bottom point will be your sticking point.

Consider a 5/3/1 sort of routine if you really want to make strength gains.

[rhodey]

(06-05-2012 01:22 PM)Lothario Wrote:  

Need Some Help Guys......

I am stuck at Lifting 155 Pounds and can't go any higher, MY stats 5 feet 10 inch tall and weigh 160 Pounds. I can do a one rep max of 175 #.

hear me out , I started going to Gym 3 yrs ago and I started with the just the bar and Incrementally went upto 160 # , I guess it's decent to be able to lift your own bodyweight but I want to do atleast 1.5 times my body weight.

Things I have tried

1. Stronglifts 5 X 5 program

2. Isolated Pecs , Triceps and Deltois Excercises.

3. Using Creatine 2500 mg a day, Fish Oil, Pre work out supplement and Protein (Atleast 150 grams a day) which is a mix of Shakes, Greek yogurt, tuna , shrimp, chicken etc.

I personally think I need to take more protein atleast 225 grams a day.....

Any humbling suggestions from the RVF members are welcome and Thanks in Advance

Things that stand out to me...



Intensity

Your Max is 175 while your work set weight is 155. So you are training with %88 of your max. Basically that's powerlifter "peaking" phase level. Too high to say at week in and week out. It's way harder to PROGRESS over longer stretches at any over %85.

I suggest dropping the weight to the %72-%77(of you max) range while upping your reps to the 10+ . Reps build muscle (provided you dont eat like a bird) and muscle moves weight!



Frequency Not sure how many times a week you bench but in my experience your bench frequency to atleast twice a week to have more "practice" doing the movement.


No you dont have to do flat bench twice a week (but you could) you could substitute Inclines, or dips, or whatever the hell give you "carryover" to your bench.

Nutrition
Too many guys get caught up in the what supplements to take when they ignore the basic fact that they are just not eating enough to grow and get stronger. You need a caloric surplus , so get it with good clean foods.

So basically you need to continue to build a solid strength base. You need to be patient and take your ego out of it. Bring the percentages down and go for more REPS at a lower weight say the 135 pound range. Reps in the 8-12 range. Do this for 3-5 sets. When you can hit 12 on EACH set bump the weight up 5lbs and start over.

Do this for about 8 weeks and then test your MAX and tell me what happens

Of course the above WILL NOT work if you do not....

...Eat more clean foods and stop worrying about your waistline, you're 160 lbs for chrissake! Unless you are 5'4" or less you will be a long way from getting fat. It's not wonder you were flat lining.... Get in an extra 500 cals a day over what you currently eat - (protein shake's will work) and make sure to eat cleaner foods without being anal about it.

Do this while working out the way I advised and your max WILL go up.

[Vaun]

(07-25-2012 09:25 AM)Lothario Wrote:  

I weigh 170 # now

You went up 10#, but you still gotta eat. Keep your training consistent where it is and starting eating more. I bet these numbers keep going up. Congrats on the progress.

[AntiTrace]

Lothario its been about a year since your last update. How you doing now?

[Lothario]

Not Good, I was gaining weight and got up to 173 # and hated the way I look but I was benching 185 #, I gained 2-3 Inches on my Belly, Started trimming, again slowly just by cutting out Carbs and Sugars in my Diet and keeping the Protein Intake High, Now I am back to 160 # and like how I look.

Still Benching the same at about 175 # 1-2 rep Max, Doing Bench Press atleast 2 times a week. looking to try some new suggestions recently given.

I think I would have to compromise between how I look and how much I can Lift. Thanks every one for taking the time give suggestions.

[flyfreshandyoung]

Lothario,

There are a ton of ways to switch it up. You can search up Pyramiding, West Side, Wave Loading, 5x3x1 among others.

You could try having a Low Rep day and a High Rep Day. It's a combo I've used these past few months that has helped move me up tremendously after being stuck at 275 for months.

High Rep day basically uses a 5x3x1 program but with more volume. 5x3x1 uses percentages of 90% of your max (aka your training max) to build up every week. Your training max would be ~160 based on a 175 max. 160, then, is the number you would base all percentages off of, rounding to closest multiple of 5. It can be a hit to the ego to drop down so low, but trust me it's worth it. Low Rep day is tons of heavy triples.

First Week High Rep-

5x 65% (105 lbs)
5x 75% (120 lbs)
Rep out 85% (135 lbs). This should hopefully end up being around 10 or more reps.

Rep out again at 85%, as many sets as you can.

First Week Low Rep-

3xTraining Max
3xTraining Max
3xTraining Max
Etc, Etc until you can't do any more.

Second Week High Rep-

3x70%
3x80%
Rep Out x 90%

Rep Out as much as you can at 90%

Second Week Low Rep-

3xTraining Max
Etc. Until you can't any more

Third Week High Rep-

5x75%
3x85%
Rep Out x 95%

Rep out 95% until you can't anymore

Third Week Low Rep

3xTraining Max
Etc. until you can't anymore

Week Four- Add 5 pounds to your training max and start the process all over again.

No deloading for a long time, you're not lifting heavy enough (not being a dick. Deloads are for the pros who are doing mega amounts of weight. Us amateurs do not need it and it is almost always counter prodcutive).

If on the low rep days you can complete 5 sets at 3xTraining Max without failure, bump up to 4xTraining Max

[Ingocnito]

(06-07-2013 08:40 PM)Major Tom Wrote:  

I'm surprised nobody mentioned working more on back development. In my opinion, that is one of the biggest things you can do to make a quick improvements in your pressing strength, whether it's overhead or lying down on a bench. Any sort of upper body pressing involves using the muscles of the back (latissimus dorsi, rhomboids, traps) as a platform from which to press. Having strong lats helps keep your upper body tight and anchored to the bench, and to help create a nice "groove" in which to lower the bar and then back up. OP should try adding some more pulling work into his program. Exercises like dumbbell rows (or better yet Kroc Rows), chins, shrugs, and minor accessory work like face pulls and band pull aparts (great for supersetting with your pushing exercises) will work wonders if you do them consistently. Don't think of the bench press solely in terms of the prime movers (chest, triceps, anterior deltoids) but be mindful of the other muscles that create the stability and optimal position from which to press. It's also great for shoulder health as well.

Totally agree here. Its one thing to exercise your shoulders to get bigger shoulders and more overall stability for pressing exercises, but to do the exact opposite exercise for your back when compared to your pressing exercises stresses the shoulder evenly and opposingly and will help your bench.

I.E.: For inclined bench, lat pull downs on cable machine or pull ups. For flat bench, bent over rows or laying on your back, lock a smith machine bar and pull your body up to your chest. It is literally the exact opposite/opposing exercise. Decline Bench, upright rows for your upper back and so on.

[Divorco]

Lothario, there is a tradeoff between weight and strength. I would gladly sacrifice ten pounds of bench press strength for three inches off my waist.

I don't especially disagree with any of the suggestions. But you can't do all of them. Also, some of the programs are a bit complicated. For a hardgainer who has plateaued, one extra rep is huge. Changing weights and reps every week makes it difficult to assess progress. I would stick with a simple scheme like Starting Strength. Then if there is no progress for a week, I would change one thing (weight/reps, volume, assistance exercise, etc.).

[WestCoast]

Lothario IMHO you need to go to low weight high reps (15 reps). Do them slow (count to three up and count to three down).

Start juicing (beets + broccoli) before you work out.

Drop the creatine for now.

Once you do 4 weeks of low weight high reps you will increase muscle endurance. Then you can go back to mass accumulation phase.

Phase 1 high reps
Phase two medium reps
Phase three heavy

Repeat. Sounds like you're consistently doing 2-4 reps with no reward.

(Note: since we met IRL I have gained 15 lbs, I can send you photos for proof if you want/info on what I changed via text if you like. Obviously not to be shared with anyone i have never met).

[InternetMarketer]

(07-17-2013 10:50 AM)Lothario Wrote:  

I think I would have to compromise between how I look and how much I can Lift. Thanks every one for taking the time give suggestions.

Here are my recommendations...

First, I'll lay down some info, so that you can understand why removing carbohydrates from your diet is not very smart.

Basically, your body needs glycogen (created from carbohydrates) during strength training.

Generally, you want to consume around 75-150g of carbohydrates (relative to your energy needs) an hour and a half before training, so that your glycogen reserves are full during strength training. This allows you to complete your workout without feeling fatigued, dizzy, etc...you obviously don't want your blood sugar levels to drop or you're going to pass the fuck out during your heavy squats/bench (I've seen it happen multiple times, always ends up bad).

After your workout, you NEED to consume carbohydrates as well (Fuck the low carb/high protein diets) to restore your energy levels. Aim for 50-100g of carbs and 50-70g of protein after your workout.

It's common knowledge that your body can not burn fat and grow muscle at the same time.

Here are my recommendations on how to workout, so that you gain strength and lose fat:

Workout 5 times a week with two days off, but you're also going to be doing cardio 5 days a week (I generally do 5 days of jogging and then HIIT -High Intensity Interval Training- on Saturday to keep my body guessing, but you have to decide if you really need two days off).

You should split the muscle groups you work on for each individual day (For example: Chest, legs, shoulders, arms, back. Or an improved four day split Chest, Legs, Shoulders + Triceps, Biceps + Back, followed by one day off -Friday- and then a full body workout on -Saturday- with a rest day on -Sunday-/ There are many variations to choose from)

You should do your strength training no later than before noon and wait about 4 hours from when you consumed your last meal, before you do cardio (your glycogen levels are generally at their lowest point immediately after you wake up and 4+ hours after your last meal).

Your body generally uses carbs as an energy source during the first forty minutes of cardio training and then it starts to use fat as an energy source (your body will use fat as an energy source assuming you keep your pulse at about 140). Your cardio should last about an hour long, longer than that is unnecessary. It is imperative that you keep your pulse around 140 during cardio, anything higher or lower is not ideal.

Finally, you don't want to consume a lot of sugar, because your body becomes reluctant to burn fat. I'd explain why excessive sugar is bad, but I'm sure you know why.

Before anyone says: OMG bro-sceince, why do slow cardio, HIIT is like so more effective for fat loss brah.

Following through with this regime is generally tough on the body, but manageable for most. If you substitute the slow cardio with HIIT, your body will literally break down on you in a few weeks, maybe even in a month or two if you have a good fitness background and have plenty of time for rest. But honestly, are you really going to have enough energy to do strength training, HITT and go to work all in the same day? Most likely not.

Generally speaking, the only people that I know who can handle lifting + HIIT every day for a long period of time are professional athletes, because they have ample time for rest and don't have to worry about other things.