[modernaire]

Besides total beta pansies, I think most guys try to be alpha, although don't do it correctly, I call it, "feigned alpha". I can only think of 4 or 5 guys I know going back to high school to now who I consider true alpha, universal appeal, can damn near get any woman they want, and it doesn't matter if she's engaged or married.

A few traits I've realized in guys who really are "alpha" since they were kids.

- Always were standout athletes in something
- Dated hot cheerleaders in high school
- Significantly above average intelligence
- Considered good looking (but not always the most masculine looking)
- Above 5'10
- Confident without trying
- Open-minded as adults
- Successful, but not always college-educated
- Usually white-collar
- Can be of any race. One of the most alpha guys I know is a 6'3 built Asian guy

And probably the most important thing...since high school, have always had the ability to have the girl go crazy over them. I mean, these guys have literally had women threaten to kill themselves over them. Like the scene in New Moon where Bella is crying and screaming over Edward - these guys have put those emotions in girls since they were young.

I don't think any expert PUA's even have this ability (sure, they can "sarge" on occasion). I've noticed there is too much direction in "alpha-at-all-costs" in the PUA community, when these guys didn't even take a girl to a dance growing up, how can they really know. They don't, and it's been turned into a multi-million dollar business at the expense of supreme beta pansies who are just destined to be nerds.

The truth is, most beta guys could learn more from watching Jon Hamm portray Don Draper on Mad Men than any PUA book.

Probably the best example of "True Alpha" on TV right now.

There are certain subsets of alpha....example, a lot of women will go after a guy making lots of money and with an overconfident (possibly feigned alpha) personality, but they'll never go crazy over him how they would with the True Alpha.

I think it's important this difference is noticed, I haven't read too much about it.

Good examples of "feigned alpha"

- Guys who recently think they are cool
- Lots of self-pandering (especially on facebook)...would say something like "got the hookup on some new subs yo"
- Using 8th grade vernacular...stuff Vanilla Ice would say back in the early 90s..."the club is mad tight with bitches"
- Exaggerated confidence
- Were probably raised in overprotective households and fighting their raising
- While some get women, they rarely if ever get the women truly crazy over them

I will say, for beta guys, "feigned alpha" is better than beta, especially considering only a small percent of guys can ever be "True Alpha". I think a lot of guys unknowingly take the "feigned alpha" so far and consider themselves True Alpha when they aren't.

Any thoughts?

[I'mWaitingForTheMan]

Most of the tall guys I know that became somewhat alpha later on were not alpha as young men. The shorter guys seemed to have more swag as kids.

That being said, I don't think height factors that much into alpha demeanor, nor the actual time of life someone adopts these traits.

[modernaire]

By nature, there are also more alpha white guys. Minneapolis for example, seemed to have a lot of 6'1 and up white guys who were in naturally good shape. If Hitler had a dream society, that would be it.

For minorities, besides black, being usually shorter (especially hispanic and asian) it is more difficult, but it can be done. It just takes money, confidence. I'll also say, a good-looking guy at 5'8 in a way has more opportunities than average at 6'1, depending on the woman. Now, if that good looking guy was 6'2, he'd have more options.

[HiFlo]

Jeez, "is this true alpha or fake alpha?" is the new "is this beta?"

[AntiTrace]

this is going to turn into a height/money/looks/race thread in no time

[Catch 22]

The feigned alpha description doesn't sound even remotely alpha.

[Nessy]

The "Feigned Alpha" sounds exactly like a guy that I know. He tries to lead and give commands in every situation, but fails miserably because he looks EXACTLY like he just walked out of a Vanilla Ice video. Talks like it too. Nobody likes him.

[GrumpStar]

Modernaire make a lot of very good points here. I've observed the phenomenon (especially recently as PUA stuff has gone more mainstream) of guys always trying to "out-alpha" each other. They wind up looking like douches... and create a perfect situation for guys like me to swoop their women. The PUA community overly-simplifies and also overly-emphasizes alphaness. It's true that dumb-shit club women will go for the shiniest thing in the room and if that's all you're after... by all means go crazy trying to out-alpha every other dude with your gimmicks, but the higher quality, more educated women immediately see through the "got the hookup on some new subs yo" bullshit. True alphaness boils down to one immutable quality in a man: "confedence"... including the conference to know and accept when he's wrong or fighting a loosing battle. The confident man will not need to rely on tricks and gimmicky "getto-talk" to be noticed by women. He need only be confident in himself and his abilities to handle any situation. This combined with being physically fit is all one needs to get beautiful women.

Real alpha men don't overtly show-off. Those who do are actually compensating for an insecurity... and therefore displaying symptoms of a confidence problem that any quality women will immidiatly sniff-out.

Here are two overarching characteristics of the alpha male:
1) Confidence in all situations -- especially true for pickup when dealing with other men in the presence of women (think leader of men) and when dealing with women acting like women (think dismissive of female bullshit).

2) They "Talk softly but cary a big stick" -- perhaps not literally, but this statement only means that an alpha is not interested in "impressing" anyone, and therefore they are typically polite (to within reason), dress well (think GQ style), don't compensate with gimmicks and are most concerned with creating excellent lifestyles for themselves.

[anewtypedude]

Most PUAs (including just about everyone on this board) are fake alphas.True alphas don't even think about girls most of the time, they just go on with their business and girls naturally come to them. They don't think about "game", they don't strategize, but they get results anyway.
Fake alphas spend too much of their time trying to get laid or "self improving" to get laid. Fakes alphas may get pussies, but true alphas get pussies and then some - they don't just conquer pussies, but they are natural leaders among men. Most true alphas also excel in the professions of their choosings[/i] thanks in part to their naturally superior social skills.

[GrumpStar]

anewtypedude also has some good observations... "True alphas don't even think about girls most of the time, they just go on with their business and girls naturally come to them." I've noticed this as 100% true. It is possible to go from beta to truly alpha and this can be a rough road... but once you're really there you should feel like anewtypedude describes. Becoming alpha is a life-long endeavor and a true, internalization of confedence. If you've been playing computer games and have had no friends for years... it's going to take years of work to get there.

[Parlay44]

No they're out there. They're the guys who act all tough and run their cocky/funny routine in public but bake strawberry shortcakes for their girl when nobody is watching. That's a feigned alpha. My friend's girl called him out on it in front of me before. I damn near fell over from laughing so hard.

Being yourself all the time is being a true alpha. The best description I've heard is being a "likable asshole".

[modernaire]

True alphas also grew up (especially during formative years) not really having to go after girls. Since middle school, the hot girls have been fighting for them. I personally think that develops a certain confidence that cannot be attained later in life. I remember in high school (over a decade ago for me) seeing guys who had cheerleaders fight over them. There was a dance in which the girls ask the guys...a few of these guys had most of the cheerleading squad after them. These were the natural alphas. I was friends with a few of them, although I wasn't alpha on their level - I knew these guys had it down right. I was very short until junior year but was on varsity soccer since I was a freshman on a state championship team...this helped me a lot.

I think after the true alphas, you have a certain type of beta/alpha hybrid, but without the confidence of a true alpha that he acquired during his younger days.

The feigned alpha are usually the most annoying, and also farther from alpha than a guy who is confident, but not on alpha levels. Then you have complete beta's, nerds, etc. A lot of guys also get into drugs in my opinion to appear alpha.

There's more to alpha than just confidence...it's an unshakeable, rock-solid, confidence. Biologically, not all males can be alpha as well. It takes size, athleticism, height, and a certain voice.

[OGNorCal707]

All this alpha-beta theory shit is really starting to get a bit tired in my opinion. Is it alpha to constantly pore over and analyze every minute detail of what it means to be alpha.

At the end of the day, it's subjective and depends on how you define it. Some guys might take a ripped 6 ft 5 in. construction worker who makes $30,000 a year as a supreme alpha due to his height and build. Another guy might consider that same guy beta, because he only makes $30,000 a year, while he'd consider the Mark Zuckerburg and Bill Gates of the world as the true alphas due to their wealth, power, and influence. While yet other guys might define alpha as the guy who fucks the most women, regardless of his height, muscles, financial wealth, etc.

Basically, I agree with Parlay, just do you, and don't worry about whether you're alpha or beta. As long as you stand up for yourself, respect yourself, believe in yourself, and don't give a fuck about other people's opinions of you, you are an alpha in my book.

[Screwston]

(06-01-2012 05:05 PM)modernaire Wrote:  

By nature, there are also more alpha white guys. Minneapolis for example, seemed to have a lot of 6'1 and up white guys who were in naturally good shape. If Hitler had a dream society, that would be it.

For minorities, besides black, being usually shorter (especially hispanic and asian) it is more difficult, but it can be done. It just takes money, confidence. I'll also say, a good-looking guy at 5'8 in a way has more opportunities than average at 6'1, depending on the woman. Now, if that good looking guy was 6'2, he'd have more options.

LMAO ban these trolls Tuth. Fuck this thread and all these alpha/beta/race/height discussions.

[Capitán Peligroso]

Quote:

Basically, I agree with Parlay, just do you, and don't worry about whether you're alpha or beta. As long as you stand up for yourself, respect yourself, believe in yourself, and don't give a fuck about other people's opinions of you, you are an alpha in my book.

To me, what matters in this discussion is living your life on your own terms.

[modernaire]

(06-01-2012 08:44 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

All this alpha-beta theory shit is really starting to get a bit tired in my opinion. Is it alpha to constantly pore over and analyze every minute detail of what it means to be alpha.

At the end of the day, it's subjective and depends on how you define it. Some guys might take a ripped 6 ft 5 in. construction worker who makes $30,000 a year as a supreme alpha due to his height and build. Another guy might consider that same guy beta, because he only makes $30,000 a year, while he'd consider the Mark Zuckerburg and Bill Gates of the world as the true alphas due to their wealth, power, and influence. While yet other guys might define alpha as the guy who fucks the most women, regardless of his height, muscles, financial wealth, etc.

Basically, I agree with Parlay, just do you, and don't worry about whether you're alpha or beta. As long as you stand up for yourself, respect yourself, believe in yourself, and don't give a fuck about other people's opinions of you, you are an alpha in my book.

When I say alpha, I mean the quintessential ladies man. Not Gates or Zuckerberg for sure.

[dk902]

This alpha/beta shit has gone too far.

All you need to worry about is what you're doing and stop over-analysing other dudes. Do your shit, be a better man and improve yourself that's all you need to care about.

[Paul Wanka]

OP has a point, but the distinction should be between "born alphas" and "learned alphas". Most guys on this forum (including the site proprietor) are "learned" alphas. Natural alphas wouldn't be hanging out here.

IMO natural alphas have a common thread in their upbringing:

1) reaching puberty early
2) athletically gifted
3) alpha father

1 - Reaching puberty early allows him to tower above his peers (male & female). Who gets bullied most in school? The short, skinny runts. Nobody messes with the big guys. The late-bloomers often catch up physically later, but by that point the psychological scars of years of torment have been set. Some guys never recover.

2 - In American high schools, athletes have the highest social status. Popularity is king, and the natural athlete will be at the top of the social hierarchy and be be exposed to girls responding positively to him from a very young age. He'll gain confidence in his interactions with women as a result.

3 - Alpha fathers will be do a better job of raisings their sons to be alpha. Furthermore, a boy's interaction with girls will often reflect the nature of his parents. If the father is dominant and the mother stays in line, he'll behave assertively around women. If the mother is domineering and the father meek and docile, the boy will be shy and stunted around women.

Most "learned alphas" have little success with girls in their youth and end up gravitating to PUA and Roosh in their adult years. But the years of scorn and neglect during their formative years have taken a toll on their psyche and many guys become embittered and even jaded despite their newfound success (most guys on this forum).

[haywire]

Looks like the Class of June 2012 is full of

[modernaire]

No idea why a few of you are getting mad...it's a relevant discussion.

There are learned alphas who behave alpha enough (not feigned) in my opinion. But, there is still a certain alpha confidence that you only see in a small percent of guys who have been alpha since they were 2.

I've also seen some big guys who weren't alpha, although had the natural size for it.

[rozayINTL]

what the OP is describing are the 'natural alphas.' These are guys that are simply born with alpha attitudes and personalities. However, it is important to recognize that this has nothing to do with height/whether or not somebody was a star athlete in high school. That is part of the OP's observations, but they're pretty far off the mark.

I will agree though that the natural alphas have females going crazy over them (ridiculously emotional) from almost day 1.

[GrumpStar]

Natural alpha or learned alpha... it's irrelevant. As long as a man is confident at physically fit he'll pull quality women. For those of you honing the craft, just focus being in control of yourself and learn leadership skills. You don't have to be a NFL quarterback to be an alpha guy... confidence and fitness is all you need. Ruminating over alpha vs. beta beyond that is pointless and will only serve to slow your progress. Remember, the goal isn't necessarily to be the most alpha dude in your city, but rather to pull attractive, quality women.

[haywire]

Come on guys, cut this crap already.

Alpha, beta, gamma, sigma, epsilon, omega, zeta, chi.. they are means not the end. Hell, means is still a strong word, they're nothing but collective terms to describe certain personality traits.

[Brazjj11]

(06-02-2012 01:42 PM)modernaire Wrote:  

No idea why a few of you are getting mad...it's a relevant discussion.

There are learned alphas who behave alpha enough (not feigned) in my opinion. But, there is still a certain alpha confidence that you only see in a small percent of guys who have been alpha since they were 2.

I've also seen some big guys who weren't alpha, although had the natural size for it.

Ha not sure what your obsession with height is. Height doesnt constitute alphaness. I am 5' 8" 150 of dense muscle, a couple weeks ago a 6' 2" 240 guy rolled with me in BJJ. Put him in an armbar and he tapped like a bitch. Bet he didnt feel too alpha.

P.S. This thread is gay!

[theIVth]

Im 6'3, 230 and played football in high school. And one of the meanest, biggest, fastest guys on the field was known for being "too nice" when it came to girls. He could get girls but just couldn't keep em because of this. It tripped me out to hear a girl describe him as "too nice" once.

I've known little short guys that girls just like for whatever reason. I've known guys who damn near everyone thought was lame and corny as hell, that fucked some of the baddest chicks.

It all comes down to YOU. Humans are not animals in the wild. We have personalities, talents, abilities and a whole host of other things that differentiates all of us. In the wild, the biggest and most ferocious is the alpha of the bunch, but humans are way more sophisticated than that. That's how a fat slob like Don King is able to play a vicious animal like Mike Tyson like a puppet.

Worry about improving yourself and using your own set of attributes to get ahead in life. Everyone can't be built like Lebron James or look like Brad Pitt.