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Circumcision
#1

Circumcision

There appears to be a lot of debate over circumcision. There are groups against circumcision, calling it genital mutilation, and of course, the proponents of circumcision who point to tradition, religion, and/or scientific studies covering the topic.

In fact, one of the studies done on AIDS and circumcision, in an HIV-troubled area, noted a strong correlation between being uncircumcised and catching HIV.

In my opinion, the benefits of circumcision outweigh whatever extra sensual stimulation one may attain due to the heightened sensitivity of the area covered by the foreskin.

Here is an article that looks at Adult Circumcision Outcomes that shed some light on the subject.
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#2

Circumcision

Umm, the first study you mention actually says this:

When the raw data are combined, a man with a circumcised penis is at greater risk of acquiring and transmitting HIV than a man with a non-circumcised penis (odds ratio (OR)=1.06, 95% confidence interval (CI)=1.01-1.12). Based on the studies published to date, recommending routine circumcision as a prophylactic measure to prevent HIV infection in Africa, or elsewhere, is scientifically unfounded.

There are in fact six African countries where men are more likely to be HIV+ if they've been circumcised: Cameroon, Ghana, Lesotho, Malawi, Rwanda, and Swaziland. Eg in Malawi, the HIV rate is 13.2% among circumcised men, but only 9.5% among intact men. In Rwanda, the HIV rate is 3.5% among circumcised men, but only 2.1% among intact men. If circumcision really worked against AIDS, this just wouldn't happen. We now have people calling circumcision a "vaccine" or "invisible condom", and viewing circumcision as an alternative to condoms.

The one study into male-to-female transmission showed a 54% higher rate in the group where the men had been circumcised btw.

ABC (Abstinence, Being faithful, Condoms) is the way forward. Promoting genital surgery will cost African lives, not save them.

The second study looks at men who were being circumcised because they had problems, so is hardly a random sample. It also looks like they only measured sensitivity of the glans, which is rather strange, since the inner foreskin is far more sensitive (no, it's not just there to cover the glans).

A more relevant study would be the Kim and Pang study, which showed that "About 6% answered that their sex lives improved, while 20% reported a worse sex life after circumcision."

That's not really the issue though. ABC works against HIV. Circumcision appears not to. Remember that circumcision won't make any difference unless someone is having unsafe sex with an HIV+ partner.

Female circumcision seems to protect against HIV too btw, but we wouldn't investigate cutting off women's labia, and then start promoting that.
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#3

Circumcision

I don't think anyone serious about the avoidance of STDs would recommend circumcision as a sole prophylactic.

Rather, circumcision has certain benefits that are thought to reduce risk:
http://health.usnews.com/articles/health...shows.html

The examples you brought up do not necessarily direct one to any concrete conclusions. In your case, you brought up a few countries where, as you mentioned, people looked at circumcision as a the sole prophylactic. What one might surmise from this assumption is that someone who sees his circumcised penis as being naturally safe from disease might engage in more risky behavior, thus increasing his chances of getting disease.

According to the article above:
"Austrian researchers analyzing biopsies from 20 circumcised and uncircumcised men found that the inner foreskin of the penis contains a higher concentration of Langerhans cells -- a prime target of the human immunodeficiency virus, or HIV -- than any other part of the male foreskin. Because this would make the inner foreskin more susceptible to HIV, removing it through circumcision would help lower a man's risk of contracting HIV, they concluded."

Also, your reference to Malawi is interesting, but according to some it is an anomaly, which may be attributed to "certain behaviors."
http://paa2007.princeton.edu/download.as...onId=71928
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#4

Circumcision

Quote: (11-12-2009 08:03 PM)ml66uk Wrote:  

A more relevant study would be the Kim and Pang study, which showed that "About 6% answered that their sex lives improved, while 20% reported a worse sex life after circumcision."

Well of course it's going to be worse. You just cut of a bunch of a brother's dickskin. They took mine early in life so I never got used to having it.

Aloha!
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#5

Circumcision

I'd rather have slightly less sensitivity than have HIV any day.
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#6

Circumcision

Quote: (11-11-2009 04:10 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

There appears to be a lot of debate over circumcision. There are groups against circumcision, calling it genital mutilation, and of course, the proponents of circumcision who point to tradition, religion, and/or scientific studies covering the topic.

In fact, one of the studies done on AIDS and circumcision, in an HIV-troubled area, noted a strong correlation between being uncircumcised and catching HIV.

There are studies supporting opponents as well. But you're depending on a shifting definition of "circumcision." Opponents are against forced circumcision of minors. The HIV research relates to sexually active adults, and in fact the research you site says for every case AIDS prevented hundreds of life-threatening circumcision complications would arise.

Quote: (11-11-2009 04:10 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

In my opinion, the benefits of circumcision outweigh whatever extra sensual stimulation one may attain due to the heightened sensitivity of the area covered by the foreskin.

It sounds like you're ignoring the pleasure-receptivity of the foreskin itself, which Taylor showed includes over half the specialized sensual nerve endings of the penis.

Inidividuals' sexual responsiveness varies. Some women swear there is no such thing as a G-Spot. Some are more or less tuned into breast stimulation. But breast cancer strikes about 1 in 9 women. Amputating one breast in childhood could cut cancer incidence to 1 in 15; millions of lives saved - children not losing mothers. But do we cut children without consent? No, because there is no way to know what value they would place on the amputated part. Likewise, some men don't seem to place much value in having a foreskin, but many do. A slight benefit years down the road for some is no justification for a certain reduction in sexual pleasure for all, especially when the decision could just as easily wait until it becomes relevant to him and he can make his own informed decision.
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#7

Circumcision

Quote: (11-13-2009 01:50 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I'd rather have slightly less sensitivity than have HIV any day.

So would I, but like I said "That's not really the issue though. ABC works against HIV. Circumcision appears not to. Remember that circumcision won't make any difference unless someone is having unsafe sex with an HIV+ partner."

Re: Post #3:
There's nothing to suggest that "people looked at circumcision as the sole prophylactic" or indeed as any form of prophylactic in those six countries any more than any other country. The paper on Malawi is interesting, but could easily be offset by the countries where circumcision is linked with lower numbers of sexual partners, as is usually the case when circumcision has been performed for religious reasons (especially amongst Muslims).

There are far better links of HIV rates with the numbers of sex workers, the prevalence of "dry sex", and of course low condom use, than with male circumcision, so it seems bizarre to be focussing on genital surgery as a way to combat HIV.

See also http://www.iasociety.org/Default.aspx?pa...Id=2197431

Conclusions: We find a protective effect of circumcision in only one of the eight countries for which there are nationally-representative HIV seroprevalence data. The results are important in considering the development of circumcision-focused interventions within AIDS prevention programs.

http://apha.confex.com/apha/134am/techpr...136814.htm

Results: … No consistent relationship between male circumcision and HIV risk was observed in most countries.

As far as Langerhans cells go, this Dutch paper suggests that Langerhans cells actually protect against HIV.

Similarly, a 1993 Israeli paper argued that the intact penis didn't have enough Langerhans cells:
http://www.circumstitions.com/Langerhans.html

Dowsett (2007) questioned why it was just males that were being encouraged to circumcise: "Langerhans cells occur in the clitoris, the labia and in other parts of both male and female genitals, and no one is talking of removing these in the name of HIV prevention."
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#8

Circumcision

I'm not circumcised. I have never had an STD. I've never heard a woman complain. I have good sex. And I'm clean all the time. It's only bad if you don't clean yourself.

If I have a son, I'm not getting him circumcised either.
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#9

Circumcision

Is circumcision really important to the guys? What are the advantages that they will get from it? As far as I know, in United States, circumcision is not applicable. It really depends on the culture, right?


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#10

Circumcision

circumcision does not curb HIV and if it does it's a hit and miss and the complications that arise from circumcision are not non-negligeable. read the facts here
http://www.circumcisionandhiv.com/

Furthermore, no one has a right to cut a valuable errogenous zone from a baby without his consent so yes it is mutilation.

the function of the prepuce is very important sexually speaking and gives more pleasure to women and men. it can create sexual problems (i.e. loss of sensation in the glans) when you are in your 40s or 50s.

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.o...epuce.html


I ve started restoration and already it feels better with the extra skin.
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