[el mechanico]

(05-06-2012 02:45 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Nice breakdown AntiTrace, we think a lot alike. I'm keeping 5K reserved for my "oh shit" fund. If everything goes south, I can use that to chill in the DR or C. America for a few months until I get back on track. Nothings worse than being busted and stuck in the states. Been there, done that.

I want to stay at work a little longer to bank an extra $20K for total fuckoff money, but am chomping at the bit to get the next chapter of my life started. I'm going to see how much more college I need to finish, which I estimate to be about a year. That would be a good investment.

Emech is trying to get me down to his stomping grounds to set up some biz ops, which I just may do at the end of the year. I gotta stay outta country till the end of the year though to make the tax break. Running 3 cabs and hustling used tires could bring in some easy cash. It might bring in some employment opportunities for forum members that wanted to get their foot in the door down in the Tampa area. They could drive or hang tires part time. And hang with us and chase pussy.

I'd be pecking at the bank for a loan though, to keep money for other investments. Like starting a little bar. I would project a small investment could start bringing in $400-500 per day, without working too hard. Running cabs and a small bar would give access to pussy without having to spend time chasing it down. Very efficient. I'm just worried about how much the tax man is gonna take. That's the kicker with a biz. A low profit margin, and a high tax bracket can kill you. Seen it happen too many times.

I grew up in a family biz, and know what it takes to keep one running. Spent years working in bars, and know that as well. The only downside is your tied to it, and that detracts from international travel.

Just throwing out some of my ideas. Worse case there's always N. Dakota. I can always drive up there and bank some quick cash to start again.

Fuck N. Dakota. I looked at some of the job links and they pay less than you can make here without breaking a sweat.

You should be making money continuously and the more you have the easier it is to make. On the other hand when I was younger I was car/motorcycle obsessed. If I had 50k I would import some sick racing bike and probably buy a sweet ride and be broke after. I've done it many times right down to the last cent. The last time I had 50 laying around I bought property which is a pain in my ass. I have an empty house that I'm not even trying to rent because the renters are more trouble than the
time it takes to make equal money.

I'm on an upswing now. I'm going to save my money and keep flipping cars as soon as they come down a bit from the tax time inflation. I might just collect about 50 of them for tax time next year and sell the all at the auction at once. They bring almost retail. Toyotas go over retail.

My best advice is to use the money to insure that you never have to work for someone else again.

[AntiTrace]

That why I insist on start-ups. And start-ups can be anything from buying 50 cars like mech to starting an online ecommerce site.

Go low cost when your learning. You might burn 30-40k. But that 5-6th attempt is going to make you money. I remember reading somewhere that most self-made millionaires went bankrupt on average of 3 times before making it big. May as well get those 3 out the way when your young.

[Saladin]

(04-17-2012 09:48 AM)Nujabes Wrote:  

Hey "DansMedia", I knew a real scumbag called "ExtraWinner" over at BHW who used the same Avatar Pic, you wouldn't happen to be him, would you? No disrespect....

I'm interested to know why you called ExtraWinner a scumbag. I don't know much about him, but he seems to be quite a respected member there. He also has some SEO services set up.

[reaper23]

jesus. just put it in the bank and keep doing what you're doing already.

[tallglassofmilk]

Well I am in a similar situation except I inherited it instead of actually earned it. I just started a new job, so I am straight up looking to invest it. The way I am thinking about breaking it done is as follows:

Solid Passive Dividend Investments- $20,000
So companies like GE, Siemens, Northrup Grumman, Boeing, Alcohol and Tobacco Companies. Essentially I am looking at companies that aren't going to be going under anytime soon and pay reasonable dividends.
Companies I Might Want to Work for in the Future - $15,000
i.e. DuPont, Halliburton, Philips Electronics, Hexcel, Solvay and companies more closely related to my current field of work. The point of this one is if I go into an interview and get asked the question (which always gets asked) why do you want to work for DuPont, I have a good answer: "I want to work for Dupont for the same reason I own stock. It has a history of making useful products and is a stable company etc. etc."
Higher Risk Dividend Investments - $5,000
So REITs and Real Estate Investment Comanies
Day Trading - $10,000

As I get more capital and experience I have a couple ideas for companies which I might start, but not yet.

As a note, I don't have the same penchant for living abroad as most of ya'll, I also already have emergency fund set up thanks to my current job.

One last thing, elabayarde, if you could pm me or post resources on where day trading to help expedite my research I would be most grateful. And anyone who has any other suggestions for me, let me know.

[Willy]

Trading is a great way for a new kid to lose $50k. I don't want to put a damper on things but I have never heard of a more sure fire suggestion for someone to lose their hard earned money.

Stocks, Options, Futures, currency and Bonds are extremely competitive markets occupied by the most talented traders, mathematicians, analysts and computer algo's in the world. To think you will step into this environment and extract money from them is... well not likely.

The idea that trading buy-writes (covered calls) and naked puts will net you 3-8% monthly is incredibly naive. To conclude as much ignores the time weighted risks associated with these. Understand this: EVERY SINGLE TIME you profit from a trade you are taking money from someone else - either another trader, a Market Maker or Investment firm. It is the most competitive game in the world which wagers the most sought after commodity known to man - money. There is NO arbitrage opportunity (which is essentially what CC and NP's are) missed by people and organizations who are much better positioned to spot and exploit them. Nothing personal to the poster who suggested it but I'd hate to see a new guy piss away 50k. You will likely have you ass handed to you.

Kona's advice is the best IMHO. Find an uncrowded niche and start small and make your own market. Pursue something you or your family is already familiar with. BUY YOUR PROFITS UP FRONT. Particularly in markets that deal face to face with average people your deft negotiating skills will pay off richly. The average Joe places value on many things besides money - expediency, convenience, peace of mind, security, a transaction that shuts the nagging hag's pie hole, etc. If it's not a compelling deal don't go for it. Bide your time and wait for it. As you progress you will learn the art of the deal and spot potential business opportunities along the way.

But for gods sake stay the hell away from the market, its an extremely crowded space. It will take you a minimum of 5 years to get good at it, paying "tuition" every step of the way.

[Aliblahba]

(05-08-2012 03:55 AM)Willy Wrote:  

Bide your time and wait for it.

This is it right here. Patience is everything. The biggest opportunities I've had just "landed" in my lap. It seems whenever I was forcing it, nothing happened. Just like chasing pussy. Stay focused, and keep your eyes open. Your break will come at some point. Just be ready for it.

[Willy]

One more quick note. Covered call and naked puts in this market is ill advised. Considering the macro issues still on the table. I'm gonna whore out my little investment blog for a more details as long as Roosh doesn't care. If so just delete the link.

http://www.speculativemeasures.com

[elabayarde]

This dude is just trying to drive traffic to his blog... obviously. Everyone do your OWN research. Also, always notice, when people try to scare you out of doing something. To say you need 5 years to learn to sell covered calls on an ETF and be successful is completely crazy...lol. People will tell you not to do it because they worry about the premiums(the price the market is willing to buy your options contract) going down from over saturation. Again do your own research!

Another example of this is internet marketing. I know people who are making a killin in it and then turn around and say its a big scam, to keep others from trying. Yes, and I know some of you, who I am talking about are reading this. But we live in the information age, and the folks who were gonna try it probably were gonna find it without our help. So thats why it doesn't worry me, helpin other people. But then again maybe i'm the dumbass for thinking that way.

[Willy]

(05-09-2012 08:13 AM)elabayarde Wrote:  

This dude is just trying to drive traffic to his blog... obviously.

R i i i i ight. Recall my advice was to STAY AWAY FROM the market. To reiterate Kona has the right idea. Yeah, you spoiled my scheme to make millions, despite even a single ad.

(05-09-2012 08:13 AM)elabayarde Wrote:  

To say you need 5 years to learn to sell covered calls on an ETF and be successful is completely crazy...lol.

Actually you can "learn" how to trade a covered call in just 1-2 paragraphs.

(05-09-2012 08:13 AM)elabayarde Wrote:  

Again do your own research!

Here is a great place to start. Notice that study after study after published, peer reviewed study shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that most (60-80%) retail traders LOSE money trading. I know, your strategy is different. I stand by my advice, look somewhere else to invest your hard won savings.

But please do post your trades in real time. And, from your earlier suggestion, how are those front month calls on TNA working out? It's down over 16% since last expiration and you'll still have to buy back the call at higher volatility....or are you gonna risk riding the ship down further till next expiration? lol. Oh, Let me guess, you avoided that disaster by selling a 50 strike May put. Uh huh.

Suggesting a newbie wager his money on a strategy that uses a 3x leveraged ETF and caps his upside at 3-5% while shouldering all the downside risks is just irresponsible. The ETF "TNA" has seen multiple 40-60% haircuts in just a couple of weeks! Last July it took a 60% sandy ass reaming in the space of 3 weeks! What are you gonna tell a guy who sold a covered call during that period, "Sorry your long position is down over 50%, but look on the bright side, you short call made you 4%". So now with only $25k and a sore ass, this newbie will have to come up with a 100% gain just to get back to where he started before your "strategy". And this speaks nothing of the known slippage inherent in leveraged ETFs.

Maybe you should use this as your training video.

(05-09-2012 08:13 AM)elabayarde Wrote:  

But then again maybe i'm the dumbass for thinking that way.[/color]

Proverbs 12:15

[tallglassofmilk]

Much thanks for all the advice. I am a mathematician myself, and frankly find financial mathematics interesting, so figuring putting 5k-10k (or 10%-20%) on the line for an algorithm I am developing in my free time seems like a good use of my time and money, especially since I am using it as motivation to help further develop skills in statistics, mathematics, machine learning, data mining and programming (to help land a higher paying job or better lifestyle job in the future). For me it is harder to be motivated to learn if I don't have a "useful" project to work on. Again, I figure I shouldn't wager more than I care to lose. And at the end of the day, losing 10k, but gaining skills in the above isn't that bad of a trade, not a good one, but still cheaper then some colleges. Hence why 40k is going to be into "safer" buy and hold strategy. REITS who own land (instead of mortages) payout hardly more then companies like GE, Budweiser, and Philip Morris tobacco.

I should also mention that when I say day trade, I more mean a buy and hold strategy coupled with occasional portfolio changes based off of day trading techniques to algorithmically buy lower and sell higher. I hope to beat traditionally buy and hold strategies the market by about .1-.2% per month, which is about 1-2% on the year, not much but better then even, and over time, very good.

[elabayarde]

(05-09-2012 11:28 AM)Willy Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 08:13 AM)elabayarde Wrote:  

This dude is just trying to drive traffic to his blog... obviously.

R i i i i ight. Recall my advice was to STAY AWAY FROM the market. To reiterate Kona has the right idea. Yeah, you spoiled my scheme to make millions, despite even a single ad.

(05-09-2012 08:13 AM)elabayarde Wrote:  

To say you need 5 years to learn to sell covered calls on an ETF and be successful is completely crazy...lol.

Actually you can "learn" how to trade a covered call in just 1-2 paragraphs.

(05-09-2012 08:13 AM)elabayarde Wrote:  

Again do your own research!

Here is a great place to start. Notice that study after study after published, peer reviewed study shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that most (60-80%) retail traders LOSE money trading. I know, your strategy is different. I stand by my advice, look somewhere else to invest your hard won savings.

But please do post your trades in real time. And, from your earlier suggestion, how are those front month calls on TNA working out? It's down over 16% since last expiration and you'll still have to buy back the call at higher volatility....or are you gonna risk riding the ship down further till next expiration? lol. Oh, Let me guess, you avoided that disaster by selling a 50 strike May put. Uh huh.

Suggesting a newbie wager his money on a strategy that uses a 3x leveraged ETF and caps his upside at 3-5% while shouldering all the downside risks is just irresponsible. The ETF "TNA" has seen multiple 40-60% haircuts in just a couple of weeks! Last July it took a 60% sandy ass reaming in the space of 3 weeks! What are you gonna tell a guy who sold a covered call during that period, "Sorry your long position is down over 50%, but look on the bright side, you short call made you 4%". So now with only $25k and a sore ass, this newbie will have to come up with a 100% gain just to get back to where he started before your "strategy". And this speaks nothing of the known slippage inherent in leveraged ETFs.

Maybe you should use this as your training video.

(05-09-2012 08:13 AM)elabayarde Wrote:  

But then again maybe i'm the dumbass for thinking that way.[/color]

Proverbs 12:15

I am not interested in arguing with you about this. Why, because I and a group of others have been doing this consistently and have been doing very well. However, your point is completely irrelevant to someone who uses basic common sense and doesn't buy the ETF during a downward trend... Thats the point of selling weekly calls. I will be putting a list of readings for those who are interested.... Also, before I went to grad school for engineering, one of my undergraduate majors was math. The preparation I received in undergrad is completely irrelevant to this, and I dont know why its even mentioned here. I assure you the average person with a high school education can read and execute these strategies. It takes reading and studying but, it is of no epic degree, in the way you try to paint it. What the last poster is doing is a very good idea, and could possibly make him alot of money, if he can make a good consistent algorithm. But the average joe blow isnt looking to do what he is describing. So, what do you suggest for a noob, to do to get into the market... or are you a stock market fundamentalist who thinks no one should!!(even though you have a blog on it). We are all ears!!

[Willy]

(05-12-2012 07:01 PM)elabayarde Wrote:  

So, what do you suggest for a noob, to do to get into the market... or are you a stock market fundamentalist who thinks no one should!!(even though you have a blog on it). We are all ears!!

I suggest he go ahead a get in if his goal is to learn the game. But do so knowing he will most likely lose - potential a lot and likely a long while. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's only bad if you worked your ass off for 50k and you want to use that accomplishment to build something bigger and better. With a bit of effort, caution and savvy a guy could parlay $50k into $100k or an income stream. But if he takes it to the market, he's gonna lose a decent potion of it and probably resent the dude cheered him into it. And, if you haven't already guessed, I don't think your strategy would spare him that experience.

Quote:

However, your point is completely irrelevant to someone who uses basic common sense and doesn't buy the ETF during a downward trend...

Basic common sense? Everything about "the market" and trading is counter intuitive. That is why the contrarian most successful. Dude, I'm starting to think you too are new at this and therefore my advice to the dude with 50k would also apply to you as well.

Those premiums are high due to the risk involved and the covered call strategy requires you hold the position for 2-4 weeks (for front money). With a 3x leveraged ETF you only need a market pull-back, not a "downtrend", to get whacked. And if you DO happen to call the trend correctly and your ETF appreciates, your covered call strategy caps you at ~3-5%. You ensure merely incremental gains while exposed to all the risks. These are called asymmetric risks - not good.

Look just post some of your trades in real time if you want cred for this strategy.

Post (within 1 hour of the trade ) the ticker, price, time of the underlying and month, strike, price of the call/put. Ill be the first one to congratulate you if you post 6 months of solid gains in real time.

[tjuan]

Put money into high dividend paying stocks and forget about it. Example: $50k in LTD (parent company of Victoria's Secret, La Senza) will net you $3,500 annually without having to lift a finger. They're always increasing their dividends and giving out special payments. Hold for a couple years and you'll be getting over 10%. $3,500 to start is enough to cover a decent vacation each year, for life. There's something satisfying about having your trips paid for by the very girls you see on the beach.
I don't care what the stock price does as I have no plans to sell. That money is going pay me until I die.