[speakeasy]

Don't underestimate the powerful of the palm-heel strike to the nose.

http://lifehacker.com/5825528/basic-self...hould-know

[Hades]

If anyone tried something stupid like a knife hand strike against my neck or a nose pinch, I'd straight up slay them. Self defense is not a series of moves you can read in lifehacker, it's something you should train for. Some of them in the article are pretty good though.

I also know some chicks who have been in my kickboxing class as long as I have and they're not very good at all. They might be able to surprise some dude but that's about it. Stuff like this on the internet gives dudes like the guy writing it a sense of false swagger.

[speakeasy]

(05-01-2012 04:00 AM)Hades Wrote:  

If anyone tried something stupid like a knife hand strike against my neck or a nose pinch, I'd straight up slay them.

You sure about that? A bladed hand strike to the neck is powerful. It laid this guy out in an instant:

[Seduction Sutra]

Learn Krav Maga. It is the most practical martial arts.

[Snowflake]

I agree with what Hades said, self-defense isn't something you can read on the web. One can only hope he remembers the techniques/stuff he read but even so in real life confrontations it's damn near impossible to have the cool and reflexes to apply such moves.

[calex]

(05-01-2012 04:00 AM)Hades Wrote:  

If anyone tried something stupid like a knife hand strike against my neck or a nose pinch, I'd straight up slay them. Self defense is not a series of moves you can read in lifehacker, it's something you should train for. Some of them in the article are pretty good though.

I also know some chicks who have been in my kickboxing class as long as I have and they're not very good at all. They might be able to surprise some dude but that's about it. Stuff like this on the internet gives dudes like the guy writing it a sense of false swagger.

If a trained person would try something like a shuto against your larynx or the base of the neck, you would be too busy trying not to vomit, pass out or die of asphyxiation to slay them. Trust me, i've been there. On the other hand, civilians wouldn't know how to do that, and would probably break their pinkie finger trying to.

One thing in the LH article is spot on: an untrained person vs an untrained attacker should go for the eyes, balls or larynx, and then run the fuck away. That's all the self defense you can teach people without blood and sweat. Unfortunately, those examples in the LH article are plain dumb, except the shotei (palm heel), since you really can't mess that up, and most people don't know how to strike with the fist anyway.

I've often contemplated setting up an effective self defense course for women and other weaklings. I'm sure it can be done, the problems are:

you need power and strong fingers, hands and feet to be effective, and most of those people don't want to put in the time and effort to cultivate the power and strength in the important bodyparts;

it takes time for most people to develop the instinct (both to understand that you have to try to cause the most damage you can, and to learn how to recognize when the shit will hit the fan before it's to late), and people who need it the most aren't willing to put in the time;

even the most well trained woman i know (a 180cm, 60kg full contact former kick boxing euro champ) is at least 20kg lighter than an average male, and once the attacker grabs her, game over.

So back to square one: gauge the eyes, grab the balls, crush the larynx and run the fuck away.

[calex]

(05-01-2012 05:00 AM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  

Learn Krav Maga. It is the most practical martial arts.

Krav Maga is glorified brawling. Sound, but very basic. Doesn't offer any real advantage against a stronger or bigger opponent.

[Hades]

(05-01-2012 04:49 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 04:00 AM)Hades Wrote:  

If anyone tried something stupid like a knife hand strike against my neck or a nose pinch, I'd straight up slay them.

You sure about that? A bladed hand strike to the neck is powerful. It laid this guy out in an instant:

Not to toot my own horn, but I'm pretty sure it would take more than one hit to lay me out. I have a high pain tolerance and would hope to get right back up.
I wouldn't do anything stupidly aggressive against somebody like that though. Did you see the martial arts dude's stance before the pimp walked up to him? That's solid force projection right there, it basically says "Pay attention, class. I've done this a hundred times". No fear at all.

(05-01-2012 05:11 AM)calex Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 04:00 AM)Hades Wrote:  

If anyone tried something stupid like a knife hand strike against my neck or a nose pinch, I'd straight up slay them. Self defense is not a series of moves you can read in lifehacker, it's something you should train for. Some of them in the article are pretty good though.

I also know some chicks who have been in my kickboxing class as long as I have and they're not very good at all. They might be able to surprise some dude but that's about it. Stuff like this on the internet gives dudes like the guy writing it a sense of false swagger.

If a trained person would try something like a shuto against your larynx or the base of the neck, you would be too busy trying not to vomit, pass out or die of asphyxiation to slay them. Trust me, i've been there. On the other hand, civilians wouldn't know how to do that, and would probably break their pinkie finger trying to.

One thing in the LH article is spot on: an untrained person vs an untrained attacker should go for the eyes, balls or larynx, and then run the fuck away. That's all the self defense you can teach people without blood and sweat. Unfortunately, those examples in the LH article are plain dumb, except the shotei (palm heel), since you really can't mess that up, and most people don't know how to strike with the fist anyway.

I've often contemplated setting up an effective self defense course for women and other weaklings. I'm sure it can be done, the problems are:

you need power and strong fingers, hands and feet to be effective, and most of those people don't want to put in the time and effort to cultivate the power and strength in the important bodyparts;

it takes time for most people to develop the instinct (both to understand that you have to try to cause the most damage you can, and to learn how to recognize when the shit will hit the fan before it's to late), and people who need it the most aren't willing to put in the time;

even the most well trained woman i know (a 180cm, 60kg full contact former kick boxing euro champ) is at least 20kg lighter than an average male, and once the attacker grabs her, game over.

So back to square one: gauge the eyes, grab the balls, crush the larynx and run the fuck away.

I guess I probably underestimate the one-strike advantage since I haven't been hit in the face and head that many times, but most definitely a trained karate maneuver could kick my ass. I see how those guys target weak areas.
They're definitely smarter on self defense than someone training for kickboxing, since their maneuvers are designed to incapacitate someone any means necessary, rather than make for a drawn out spectator sport or a standard man v. man duel.

Definitely agree on the strong hands and fingers. Some of the classmates who are stronger than they are prudent get serious bruises and boxer's break type injuries because they don't spend enough time at the rice bucket. They get impatient and beat up their hands.

And yeah, reread the article and thought to myself that the article's focus should be "surprise quick attack, then sprint" instead of suggesting that you can dominate your attacker with one strike. They should warn the person reading that you are very unlikely to overpower or physically dominate someone that naturally aggressive.

[Sourcecode]

(05-01-2012 05:19 AM)calex Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 05:00 AM)Seduction Sutra Wrote:  

Learn Krav Maga. It is the most practical martial arts.

Krav Maga is glorified brawling. Sound, but very basic. Doesn't offer any real advantage against a stronger or bigger opponent.

You must have no idea what your talking about...

[Alpha]

(05-01-2012 05:42 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Not to toot my own horn, but I'm pretty sure it would take more than one hit to lay me out. I have a high pain tolerance and would hope to get right back up.

A strike to the neck - specifically the carotid - while causing severe paint, isn't intended to cause /only/ pain. The blow itself collapses the artery momentarily, causing a sudden lack of needed blood flow to the brain. Though only for a small second, this can cause severe disorientation and, sometimes, fainting.

Some things in fighting go beyond simply 'hurting' the other guy.

However, after spending nearly a decade in martial arts, I'd still advise carrying a firearm or - if it isn't an option - going for the eyes/throat/balls and running away, trained or not.

[Moma]

(05-01-2012 05:01 AM)Snowflake Wrote:  

I agree with what Hades said, self-defense isn't something you can read on the web. One can only hope he remembers the techniques/stuff he read but even so in real life confrontations it's damn near impossible to have the cool and reflexes to apply such moves.

Of course, training helps but remember that it's about who strikes hardest in the right place.

You'll be surprised the type of instincts some people will have in combat.

Knowledge is power. Not every person who attacks another person is trained. Many are opportunists. It's just that one may be bigger or stronger than the prey but not necessarily more experienced in combat.

Also, there have been instances that I've known of when blackbelts are being knocked out by Joe Bloggs (regular cats) in a brawl on the street where Joe merely throws a well timed blow right to karate experts jaw.

[Moma]

(05-01-2012 06:37 AM)Alpha Wrote:  

A strike to the neck - specifically the carotid - while causing severe paint, isn't intended to cause /only/ pain. The blow itself collapses the artery momentarily, causing a sudden lack of needed blood flow to the brain. Though only for a small second, this can cause severe disorientation and, sometimes, fainting.

Some things in fighting go beyond simply 'hurting' the other guy.

However, after spending nearly a decade in martial arts, I'd still advise carrying a firearm or - if it isn't an option - going for the eyes/throat/balls and running away, trained or not.

In the pimp situation, if a person who the unarmed pimp approaches aggressively is carrying a firearm and they shoot the pimp, is that illegal in America?

[billy]

All training can do is make you tougher than you were before, it cannot make you tough, the guy who taught me to box only learnt to fight properly in prison after he beat the fuck out of three bouncers at 19 years old and knocked all of one bouncers front teeth out. Once he came out of prison he became a pro boxer and no amount of training will let you beat somone like that unless you have the same physicial and mental gifts from birth. What you can learn is how to see the trouble coming avoid it or land a swift hard punch early and then fuck off faster than a negro at a clan meeting. The sucker punch and run is the best self defense move in history.

[OGNorCal707]

Most effect moves learned from Wing Chun, when delivered correctly, a swift powerful jab to your attackers eye with fingers stretched pointed out (eye jab). Also, a throat strike with your fingers in the same position as the eye jab, only your hand will be held vertically instead of horizontally. When either strike is successfully delivered it will devastate your opponent, either by temporarily blinding them, or by crushing their wind pipe, temporarily stopping their breathing.

Also, never discount the kick to the balls, just make sure you land it properly, because that will piss a motherfucker off!

[Veloce]

In every fight i've ever been in or observed, there's no time for precision strikes, especially since it's usually at/around a bar/house party and involves alcohol and drunks.

Personally, I go for the neck. Keep hands up and head low, move in, take any hits they dish out, grapple, and choke hold. If that doesn't calm them the fuck down then start punching the side of their ear or jaw.

[Screwston]

Y'all should check out Felony Fights on youtube. Those are pretty realistic of how street fights are. But yeah, you can't read articles on how to fight and expect to use that when shit the fans. Gotta actually fight some and practice.

[Timoteo]

The point of most of these techniques is for you to deliver a single blow to a vulnerable spot, allowing you to escape. A poke/blow to the eyes, throat, groin or nose will hopefully incapacitate your assailant and allow you to haul ass. As for actual fighting, you obviously need to not only learn techniques, but practice them (sparring), and maybe even fight in competitions against someone that's actually trying to hurt you also, until the techniques become instinctive and are engrained in your muscle memory. Most don't know how they're going to react under duress unless they've actually been in those kinds of situations.

[Luvianka]

Take Krav Maga lessons, guys. A 40 h course gives you a good deals of techniques to repeal any attack. By the way, Krav Maga has a plus: Your testosterone levels boil all the way up. Every time I left the gym I felt my balls the size of a watermeon, ready for action.

[azulsombra]

(05-01-2012 06:47 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 06:37 AM)Alpha Wrote:  

A strike to the neck - specifically the carotid - while causing severe paint, isn't intended to cause /only/ pain. The blow itself collapses the artery momentarily, causing a sudden lack of needed blood flow to the brain. Though only for a small second, this can cause severe disorientation and, sometimes, fainting.

Some things in fighting go beyond simply 'hurting' the other guy.

However, after spending nearly a decade in martial arts, I'd still advise carrying a firearm or - if it isn't an option - going for the eyes/throat/balls and running away, trained or not.

In the pimp situation, if a person who the unarmed pimp approaches aggressively is carrying a firearm and they shoot the pimp, is that illegal in America?

America is a BIG country. The answer to that question can differ greatly by state, county, region, status, gender and race. But generally the answer is no you can't legally shoot in that situation.

[UgSlayer]

(05-01-2012 12:04 PM)billy Wrote:  

All training can do is make you tougher than you were before, it cannot make you tough, the guy who taught me to box only learnt to fight properly in prison after he beat the fuck out of three bouncers at 19 years old and knocked all of one bouncers front teeth out. Once he came out of prison he became a pro boxer and no amount of training will let you beat somone like that unless you have the same physicial and mental gifts from birth. What you can learn is how to see the trouble coming avoid it or land a swift hard punch early and then fuck off faster than a negro at a clan meeting. The sucker punch and run is the best self defense move in history.

Royce Gracie

[Bad Hussar]

Is there any discipline better than Krav Maga for someone who is purely interested in learning effective practicle self defence?

I'm a relatively small guy, but fortunately manage to stay ot of trouble. I'm definitely not instigating fights with strangers. But I've been thinking that I realy should learn some self-defence moves to protect against against unprovoked attacks, such as muggings. Mentally I am prepared, or think I am, to use any force against a very serious unprovoked attack or threat, including force that could result in their death. But I would be at a loss as to what I could do specifically.

Krav Maga appeals to me because it seems very much no-nonsence. There's none of the esoterica often associated with martial arts. For people who have been to classes. What were your experiences?

[Snowflake]

(05-01-2012 06:45 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 05:01 AM)Snowflake Wrote:  

I agree with what Hades said, self-defense isn't something you can read on the web. One can only hope he remembers the techniques/stuff he read but even so in real life confrontations it's damn near impossible to have the cool and reflexes to apply such moves.

Of course, training helps but remember that it's about who strikes hardest in the right place.

You'll be surprised the type of instincts some people will have in combat.

Knowledge is power. Not every person who attacks another person is trained. Many are opportunists. It's just that one may be bigger or stronger than the prey but not necessarily more experienced in combat.

Also, there have been instances that I've known of when blackbelts are being knocked out by Joe Bloggs (regular cats) in a brawl on the street where Joe merely throws a well timed blow right to karate experts jaw.

Funniest thing is I got into a fight last night as I was really tired/drunk and had pretty much failed at getting anything done in the club where I had been. I realize I was being a complete asshole and douche and just generally the type of person I really dislike but there is no way anyone could have pulled off any effective "dirty" move on me. The problem is most of these situations originate from verbal altercations, then pushing/shoving and eventually if nobody breaks up the fight punches get thrown. I definetely agree with the fact that knowledge is power but situations like the pimp's attack only rarely occur. Like thedude and houston pointed out fights are just too fucked up and messy for an untrained average guy to land an effective blow and eventually incapacitate opponents and get away safely

[Aliblahba]

Dirt/sand/salt- use to blind your opponent. Always know where the salt shaker is in the bar. Order a shot of tequila and it'll be delivered. Put it in your jacket pocket and leave the lid loose. Reach in for a handful. They won't be expecting it.

Glass ashtrays- Great bludgeoning device. The anti-smoking laws suck, leaving me with one less weapon.

Jalapenos. Rub all over your hands if you think it's gonna get messy. Punch someone in the eye, or rub your hands on their face when grappling, and they'll get it.

Toothpicks- Never tried this one, but grabbing a handful and throwing them at the attackers face like ninja spikes would be fun at least. If you use this one let me know how it worked out.

Rotating bar stool- Turn it till the back is firmly against the bar. Lean back so your head is further away. Let your opponent start coming in for a hit, then plant both feet into his chest. If you've been doing leg presses, as you should in the gym, everything behind him will scatter like bowling pins when he flies backwards.

Urine- If they start shit in the bathroom, rub your hands in the urinal and start swinging. You'll get the first several strikes, or greatly increase the chance. I'd avoid someone with piss on their hands myself.

Pool balls and cues are overrated. They expect that shit. Be original.

[Timoteo]

"Pool balls and cues are overrated. They expect that shit. Be original."

Oh REALLY? Steven Seagal used them to great effect in "Out for Justice." HA HA!

[speakeasy]

(05-02-2012 10:27 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

Krav Maga appeals to me because it seems very much no-nonsence. There's none of the esoterica often associated with martial arts. For people who have been to classes. What were your experiences?

Took it for 5 years. I didn't have to be there that long, but it was a good way to stay in shape, I had friends there and I enjoyed it. I would highly recommend it. If you just want to learn the basics of handling yourself in a fight and get in shape, you'd be fine with even just a year. Make sure that you get to spar regularly. If your instructors don't encourage sparring, then find a different training center.