[oldnemesis]

To me it is kinda funny where someone disregards official government statistics claiming they have their own interest, but relying on some other statistics - typically provided by a 3rd party which has a very obvious interest as well.

[InternationPlayboy]

(04-08-2012 10:13 AM)Zee Wrote:  

They take away rights every time they get a chance. This is just one more little chunk of freedom we wont have. The government is getting more control over its citizens with every new bill.

Some serious shit is about to hit the fan in the US. Look back at history, this is how all the huge empires fell. The government becomes too big and above the law. Now the corporations control everything. Our government is just a face for these large corporations and people we don't see that are really calling the shots. These days they make the problem and give us the solution through the media, which they also control. It's a very scary situation that we've gotten ourselves in. Another reason I want to get the fuck out of Florida, it's gonna be a terrible place to be when shit hits the fan. I either want to be out of the country or up in the mountains in Aspen with all the actors and hedge funders. They won't be fucking with anyone up there.

[Kona]

I can't believe this isn't a law already??

You guys are being a little too hard on the government about this one.

Do you guys think that people that don't pay their tickets should have stoppers put on their driver's licenses?

If somebody breaks the law they shouldn't be allowed to fly off to where ever the fuck.

There are plenty of other laws that are way more bullshit than this one. This makes more sense than a lot of them.

Plus, 50k means you made a decent amount of money. You gotta change other laws first before you let people make a bunch then skip. This seems to me to be a way to keep rich folks from breaking laws the working man can't which is supposed to be cool.

This is unless you made 25k a year for 20 years and didn't pay anything, then skipped out. In which case you should get locked up.

Aloha!

[kosko]

(04-14-2012 06:08 AM)Kona Wrote:  

I can't believe this isn't a law already??

You guys are being a little too hard on the government about this one.

Do you guys think that people that don't pay their tickets should have stoppers put on their driver's licenses?

If somebody breaks the law they shouldn't be allowed to fly off to where ever the fuck.

There are plenty of other laws that are way more bullshit than this one. This makes more sense than a lot of them.

Plus, 50k means you made a decent amount of money. You gotta change other laws first before you let people make a bunch then skip. This seems to me to be a way to keep rich folks from breaking laws the working man can't which is supposed to be cool.

This is unless you made 25k a year for 20 years and didn't pay anything, then skipped out. In which case you should get locked up.

Aloha!

I hear you but if the Law is already illegal what does one do? Americans are not obligated to pay income taxes, their constitution voids it. But for 70yrs now Americans have been paying it. I feel the IRS is just trying to cover there butts. It's a right of Anericans to have free travel. Even a man whom has raped and killed and served his time can travel, yet a struggling family whoms in the red, lost their home via crony Govt policies is hammers harder than a felon.

In Ireland the Govt has tried to implement a new property tax to cover its Debts that their private banks dumped on them. The people can smell the swindle from a mile away and thus 69% of the population has refused to pay it since none of the money will go to general Govt services. I feel the same will happen in America. Taxes will rise and people will be like "Hey fuck you, I am paying more while you still slash services, where is the money going?"

Once Americans realize their tax payments only go toward servicing the national debt interest and not to Govt services they will simply stop paying. This is why these laws now are getting rammed through. The gig is up. Both Obama and Romney are stooges, puppets with the same hands up their asses.

People rag on rich people, but they find holes in laws to get around. The general public should do the same. You will start to see students not pay student loans and people not pay taxes. Why should they? They get little in return and a bought and corrupted Govt that does nothing but swindle them.

If somebody breaks laws then yes slap them around but the IRS illegally collects taxes which have no legitimacy under their Constitution. Americans can only be taxed on a agreed bases of Gold or Silver and not general fiat money. This would mean American Tax collection became void (if you feel it is just and legal to do so) in 1971 when they removed the Gold Standard.

There are so many loopholes. Law is just codified language. It only has legitimacy if it is agreed too. If you don't agree to the language of law it can't apply to your natural self. Any Law heads on here can answer to that but it's very much true. Only civil/common matters apply to you natural self. Any monetary matters don't.

*exhales*

[Celtic]

There's some massive ignorance going on in this thread. The US government doesn't "cook" the statistics to exclude people who aren't actively searching for work. The government will give you these numbers here:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

U-4 is the percentage rate that includes people who aren't looking for work because the economy sucks. U-5 adds on everyone who says they want a job but aren't actively looking, and than U-6 adds on people who are working part-time only because they can't find full time work.

U-3, Counting unemployment as people who are actually looking for work but aren't finding it, is the definition most people use but it's not like we are cooking those stats.

[oldnemesis]

(04-14-2012 04:32 PM)kosko Wrote:  

I hear you but if the Law is already illegal what does one do?

I tell you what to do. You challenge it in the court of law, and unless and until the court suspends the enforcement of the law or declares it invalid you follow it.

Quote:

Americans are not obligated to pay income taxes, their constitution voids it.

Got it. Could you please go somewhere else to spread your bullshit conspiracy theories?

[iknowexactly]

(04-14-2012 01:49 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

To me it is kinda funny where someone disregards official government statistics claiming they have their own interest, but relying on some other statistics - typically provided by a 3rd party which has a very obvious interest as well.

You've got a point there, the shadowstats guy sells services.

However, he explains pretty specifically how the gubmint cooks
the books, while to my knowledge the government pretty much admits
they do this.

He began his business advising some kind of manufacturers on how much raw materials etc was going to go up because inflation stats
stopped reflecting reality. He got paid to be right.

One example is I believe that the gubmint removed the price of gasoline from inflation stats, when it is one of the things that goes up quite a bit every year.

I think the idea being if they admitted how much the cost of living was going up, they'd have to index up social security payments.

This leads to the more interesting question is how do you tease out real information from the maze of propaganda. assume everyone is lying until you see some common information that would have to be true according to all the liars.

This I think is how people realized not to listen to women when they say what they want in men. They looked at the real world,
then compared it to what women claimed to like, and realized everything they say is a lie except they don't want to get murdered and they like rich men.

[kosko]

(04-17-2012 12:18 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(04-14-2012 01:49 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

To me it is kinda funny where someone disregards official government statistics claiming they have their own interest, but relying on some other statistics - typically provided by a 3rd party which has a very obvious interest as well.

You've got a point there, the shadowstats guy sells services.

However, he explains pretty specifically how the gubmint cooks
the books, while to my knowledge the government pretty much admits
they do this.

He began his business advising some kind of manufacturers on how much raw materials etc was going to go up because inflation stats
stopped reflecting reality. He got paid to be right.

One example is I believe that the gubmint removed the price of gasoline from inflation stats, when it is one of the things that goes up quite a bit every year.

I think the idea being if they admitted how much the cost of living was going up, they'd have to index up social security payments.

This leads to the more interesting question is how do you tease out real information from the maze of propaganda. assume everyone is lying until you see some common information that would have to be true according to all the liars.

This I think is how people realized not to listen to women when they say what they want in men. They looked at the real world,
then compared it to what women claimed to like, and realized everything they say is a lie except they don't want to get murdered and they like rich men.

There are tons of goofy metrics the Govt uses to count inflation. One is a formula which they basically do a "switcheroo". A example is if the cost of ground beef or steak goes up 18% in a year the CPI will swap that with a lower cost alternative such as a cheeseburger or some shit. They assume that the consumer would count the price-quality ratio of the product the same and thus are able to keep the inflation percentage lower then it would otherwise be if the counted the true cost of "beef".

[kosko]

(04-17-2012 11:44 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(04-14-2012 04:32 PM)kosko Wrote:  

I hear you but if the Law is already illegal what does one do?

I tell you what to do. You challenge it in the court of law, and unless and until the court suspends the enforcement of the law or declares it invalid you follow it.

Quote:

Americans are not obligated to pay income taxes, their constitution voids it.

Got it. Could you please go somewhere else to spread your bullshit conspiracy theories?

luckily this has already been done. U.S. Courts have already stated that the IRS is not a Govt institution. You can go search yourself for examples. Here is a quote from a Idaho U.S. Distrct Judge.

The 16th Amendment was never lawfully ratified by the needed majority of the States. The law was only ratified by illegal proclamation by the Secretary of State of the time. It has no legal relevance. Income Tax in America is not legal, your constitution bars it.

Quote:

"If you...examined [The 16th Amendment] carefully, you would find that a sufficient number of states never ratified that amendment." - U.S. District Court Judge James C. Fox 2003.

This was not a ruling though. Simply a Judge reciting fact. To understand this you have to go further back.

in 1970 The US Supreme Court stated that there is no "orgnaic law" that legally created the IRS under the US Department of Treasury. There is no mention of the eintity of the IRS itself withen the Dept of treasry at all withen U.S. Code. the only mention of this at all in official US Code is that a type of adminstrator or bureaucrat can be created:

Quote:

.....Assistant General Counsel in the U.S. Department of the Treasury to be the Chief Counsel for the IRS.

-Source: 31 U.S.C. 301(f)(2)

Again you have to go even further back to figure out why this is. In 1913 to fund its war effort the USA basically went bankrupt (initially into receivership). In order to get the cash it needed the Federal Reserve Bank was created with the stipulation that Income Tax be created to pay off the debt which the Govt was lent. In the start the Govt had to shell out physical Gold to cover its loans, it eventually ran out and ran out of money in 1933. This is why in 1933 in last ditch effort to cover its bills the Govt made holding Gold as tender illegal and confiscated the majority of the public's physical Gold and Silver. Gold and Silver coin is the only tender that is recognized buy the constitution. FDR via Executive order barred this and made Federal Reserve notes (what you know now as money) as legal tender (this is why old notes say U.S. note on them awe're redeemable to be interchanged with gold at anytime).
- source: 12 USC § 95(A) (B)

After this the USA entered stages of economic structural issues and dipped in and out of receivership. The USA maintained backing paper currency with Gold until it could no longer meet its requirements. The USA was printing to many dollars to fund Vietnam and globally holders of the paper feared a loss of value in the their USA assets and started to withdraw their physical holdings. Nixons was feeling the squeeze and had to cut the cord thus floating Federal Reserve money on nothing but air and guns. After 1971 the Federal Reserve and USA Govt could print as much money as they wanted with no repercussions except inflation and this started to exponential rise in USA debt levels to the crazy levels you see now.

The Federal Reserve is a private Bank whom has shareholders and functions just like any regular bank except for the fact it only deals with its shareholders exclusively. Again this is not some conspiracy its actually quite well known and is not unique to the USA. In the 70's one of the stipulations Canada had to undertake to going the G7 was to privatize is Central Bank (The Bank of Canada) all G8 nations have private central banks which loan money to Govts at interest. The IRS simply collects interest for the bank. No USA income taxes go into general revenue of the Govt purse, it is only to pay off interest. The Govt must borrow the rest of the money it may need to fund its necessary departments and expenses.

You don't fight the Nazis ans hedge yourself to overtake the British as the Global Superpower on the cheap. Whom really knows how much both WW I II cost America in nominal figures but the point is your Govt signed away its purse to private individuals to fund it (private does not mean some silly idea of elite huddled up in a darkroom or some Illuminati junk drinking blood in the hills of rural Europe... you got real people Rockefeller, Ford, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Rothschilds, Soros, Monarchs.. and any other filthy rich oligarch looking to make some cash).

If you know anything about history you would understand Neapolitan did it, Lincoln had to do it, The British, Hilter, Stalin, etc. all needed sizable loans from private institutions, monarchs, or oligarchs to shore up its war efforts. War is the most expensive expenditure on earth and nothing comes close. War is normally funded via debt or by illegal means like drugs or weapons sales.

But hey what the hell do I know. I'm just a tinfoil nut from Canada right.

*Go research for youself. This is a nice conslidated source:
[/quote]

Quote:

The real deal on the IRS

If you don't want a long read and have the attention span of a gerbil then watch this 3min video:

Quote:

IRS is Illegal

So to round up the story. This is why Americas debt rises at such obsene levels, this is why the Govt takes a quarter of your income evrey year and it seems you get nothing in return, this is why British and European banks got trillions of dollars of your money in 2008, this is why Student Loan debt has skyrocketed to levels higher than Credit Cards, this is why Housing debt largely killed off the last of the American middle class. Its no fuking conspiracy...

If your in the business of money... its just another day at the office.

If your a shareholder in any company you want your returns to grow. Just understand that their returns come at your expense. The USA is being sucked dry to the point it makes the corruption and looting in my home Country of Nigeria look tame in comparison.

On the flipside this has a direct correlation with wreakless Govt spending. The Govt can continue to borrow money on your back as it has no recourse to stop. If money had real representation of goods, services and production that occurred in the real economy Govt would not be bale to spend the way it does, it would be limited by the input of tax revenue and the representation of goods and assets in the real economy it could borrow against. Its an unstaisnable system and this is why The Govt pruchases these:



And..:

Quote:

ATK Secures .40 Caliber Ammunition Contract with Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE)

Quote:

announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

-source: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/why-is-h...t-bullets/
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/atk-sec..._news_stmp

Damn can't forget these either:

Quote:

Washington - A bill passed last week allocating more than $63 billion to the Federal Aviation Administration would increase the existence of drones in civilian airspace across America and is expected to be signed into law by President Barack Obama.
-http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/0...n-us-skies

..ooops. Can't forget these either:




.....


I keep on saying... this shit is not for a rainy day, or some mullah in cave with a beard. Its for Joe Six Pack in Maine, and John Smith in California. Why the hell does the Govt need 450million rounds of ammo for domestic purposes? Your Federal Agencies need bullets... but hollow tips? seriously? They are getting ready for shit to hit the fan, so naturally you must also.

But I am rambling here to bring full circle what I was saying before these bull shit laws only apply if you accept them. Since the IRS has no legal bounds to collect money from you they can only agree to take away unable rights to free travel (unless your a felon) IF YOU ACCEPT THOSE TERMS. Thus you have no obligations to pay your income tax and nothing can be done to force you. This is especially true if you work for yourself and acquire your own income. Tell the Govt to fuck right off.

[oldnemesis]

Dude, as I said, you're wasting your time. If we want to read some conspiracy blogs we'll find them ourselves.

Let me ask you a question: do you put your money where your mouth is? Are you refusing to pay the income tax?

[iknowexactly]

Before our pals at Homeland Security decide to waste us, I want to apologize to Old Nemesis for calling him naive.

It's not his fault I'm pissed off at the Gubmint, so I shouldn't take it out on him.

Also, his extensive efforts at explaining Ukrainian culture have made my trip to the Giant Refrigerator far more enjoyable;
and I appreciate it.