Have you been to Perch lounge yet? I went and it was great. Rooftop bar, live jazz, good crowd. I'm more on the westside, so I usually hit up the Viceroy in SM or the Shade Hotel or MB Post in Manhattan Beach.
Nightlife, Social Circle Game, Misc. Observations, etc.
Quote: (04-03-2012 06:56 PM)PartyonBro Wrote:
Have you been to Perch lounge yet? I went and it was great. Rooftop bar, live jazz, good crowd. I'm more on the westside, so I usually hit up the Viceroy in SM or the Shade Hotel or MB Post in Manhattan Beach.
Perch is very cool. Only drawback is way too many Korean girls. I'm just not that into Asian girls.
Quote: (04-02-2012 03:37 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:
Quote: (04-02-2012 03:10 AM)R_B Wrote:
Even at bars and clubs I am starting to do this now and I think it helps create the vibe of being a high value guy who is not needy. Let's say you are at a bar, and 5 out of 50 women are interested in you. Let's say as a guy you randomly start approaching 20 women or so, well, those 5 women who are interested in you will likely see a lot of rejections, lowering your value in her eyes, and they may become disinterested. On the other hand if you sit back and let them come to you, while having a great time, you can let them know you are a high value guy.
You actually described what I've been doing for a while now much better than I'd do it myself. Respect.
Indeed if you're someone who is comfortable being out alone (and I actually prefer going out alone) and don't even need the company to feel good, why would you artificially create it? The only thing I can add for those who want to try it is that you still need to be approachable. And I am not talking about sitting in the dark corner reading the book - this in fact might bring you some approaches. I'm talking about the cases, when for example I brought a guitar into Karaoke bar and played it while singing; things like that boost up your value so much that it would scare the women away from you.
Just to expand on what I wrote, if, say, 5 out of 50 women are interested in you, perhaps you are only interested in 1-3 of those women. So basically, out of 50 women in the bar, 1-3 might be a good fit on any given night. As mentioned, your value goes down in the eyes of women who see you get rejected by other women (opposite of pre-selection) or even if she simply sees you initiate conversations with lots of women (conveys neediness).
Once I find a high traffic spot at a bar sometimes I think its best to wait for them to approach you, or, at least wait until you get an indicator of interest. If those 1-3 "good fit" girls see you talking to other women, they may not bother coming into your proximity and/or flirt with you as they might guess that you are with them or interested in them (the odds approaching, flirting with, and getting the 1-3 "good fit" girls out of the 50 are slim, unless you approach lots of girls in the closed setting which is a bad, bad idea for the aforementioned reasons). If you do decide to open, a simple "hi" or something similar is oftentimes enough; then screen for her reaction, and if she does not give indications of interest (e.g. continuing the conversation, eye contact, proximity) then cut it off right there; with short interactions the the 1-3 "good fit" girls may not even notice that you are initiating conversations with other girls, unless they are looking in your direction and are watching closely. And if you push too hard in the opener and ramble too much she might leave (I have made this mistake many, many times), but, if you don't, she might stick around, and have some friends surrounding her, and some of her friends may be attracted to you. You are playing it cool in other words.
The trick is to convey an aura of complete indifference even though you secretly want her. In my experience she should put in a lot of the upfront work. Just as it works for most if not all mammalian creatures, because of differences in reproductive "costs" men display and women choose (although I should add that men do some choosing of course (e.g. rejecting a fat chick) and tend to have equal choice when it comes to LTRs).
Quote: (04-05-2012 02:26 PM)R_B Wrote:
If you do decide to open, a simple "hi" or something similar is oftentimes enough; then screen for her reaction, and if she does not give indications of interest (e.g. continuing the conversation, eye contact, proximity) then cut it off right there; with short interactions the the 1-3 "good fit" girls may not even notice that you are initiating conversations with other girls, unless they are looking in your direction and are watching closely.
You can also wait until she's ordering a drink, and time it out to order your own drinks. Then it would look like a typical small-talk while you're waiting for your drinks, and not an approach.
Quote: (04-05-2012 02:26 PM)R_B Wrote:
If you do decide to open, a simple "hi" or something similar is oftentimes enough; then screen for her reaction, and if she does not give indications of interest (e.g. continuing the conversation, eye contact, proximity)
QFT -- and combined with the "open when she orders a drink, during your drink order.
I gave up clubbing over a decade ago (I still go, but typically to entertain clients), but in busy loud venues, the best place to meet women are always at the bar:
1. If she is with a guy, chances are, he's the one ordering/buying drinks,
2. If she's with friends and she's ordering, chances are she's the lower maintenance of the ground, or the biggest lush,
3. Her defensives are lower at this point because she's submissive to the bartender,
4. Close proximity isn't considered creepy since you're both trying to elbow your way in
A simple "hi" works wonders here, and you literally have just 2-3 minutes after to gauge her interest. Body turns toward you, she smiles and looks up and down your face? You've got her attention.
Typically, I would say when you get your drink you should part ways to "see if my friend showed up, what's your name?" then see if she catches your eye again. If she does, she's IOId you big time. Move in and let her know your idiot friend decided to stay in with his girlfriend.
Noisy clubs are terrible for anything but drunk sloppy pickup, in my experience. Be prepared to bounce to a quieter lounge after that drink if she nibbles interest. This is especially true if she's young and doesn't tend to do lounges.
Quote: (04-05-2012 02:26 PM)R_B Wrote:
As mentioned, your value goes down in the eyes of women who see you get rejected by other women (opposite of pre-selection) or even if she simply sees you initiate conversations with lots of women (conveys neediness).
Really opposed to this line of thinking. It's goes a long with the "what if" fears that keeps guys from approaching. Women in bars simply aren't attuned enough to the overall environment be paying attention to some random dude's blowoffs and rejections. And the few times that it *might* actually happen are so miniscule that it's not worth adjusting your strategy.
There are plenty of reason to use post-up game, but concern of what others think of you shouldn't be one.
Quote: (04-05-2012 08:05 PM)PDX Wrote:
There are plenty of reason to use post-up game, but concern of what others think of you shouldn't be one.
And if a gal you open calls you out on talking to other women, you can make her qualify herself pretty easily.
"Oh, you were watching me, were you?"
Onus is now on her.
"As mentioned, your value goes down in the eyes of women who see you get rejected by other women (opposite of pre-selection) or even if she simply sees you initiate conversations with lots of women (conveys neediness). "
I'm not so sure about this (although shirley it depends on the bar/club you're at). I've found that in most environments I'm in, talking to women softens up other women to talk to me. Even if a high-SMV woman is not interested in talking to me, if I don't push it I can disengage politely and come away with extra points for talking to a hot girl. Because of this carryover (it's like a soft preselection), I just open whoever is openable (a 1 on the binary scale, looks friendly, not surrounded by clucksters) and chances are she'll introduce me to another woman.
The key is to not get an OBVIOUS rejection, and the way to do that is to be interesting, cool and tone down any kind of hitting-on-women vibe. You open a chick, you start talking to her friends (male or female), before you know it you're in a set of six people all chatting it up. People see it and it seems like you're a cool, nonthreatening guy.
It's not a good mindset to "sniper" the few chicks you're really into, it sets up a needy/oneitis frame of mind.
"Once I find a high traffic spot at a bar sometimes I think its best to wait for them to approach you, or, at least wait until you get an indicator of interest."
Dude, if you're getting girls to approach you (by which I mean they are saying the words that start the conversation), then more power to you, but I'm in the camp on this board that expecting that to happen is a poor strategy for a guy who isn't really good-looking or looks "interesting." I certainly believe in posting up and opening girls who pass by (leaning against the bar is a good one), it cuts down on the "hunter" vibe which you don't usually want and I find gets a lot of guys too amped up in the field.
"If those 1-3 "good fit" girls see you talking to other women, they may not bother coming into your proximity and/or flirt with you as they might guess that you are with them or interested in them"
Again, I have found the opposite - chatting with other women seems to oil up the girls I like to be more approachable, as they see me as more social. If she's the only person I talk to that night, she might get to wondering if I've been brooding on her.
"If you do decide to open, a simple "hi" or something similar is oftentimes enough; then screen for her reaction, and if she does not give indications of interest (e.g. continuing the conversation, eye contact, proximity) then cut it off right there"
I'm a big fan of the "throw out any bait and see if she bites." If her body agenda has decided it wants her to talk to you, it's on. You don't have to talk her into sleeping with you on the opener. In night game, she's going to communicate interest pretty quickly or not at all so cutting losses quickly is key so you don't get blown out publicly. I like Roosh's "you look like you're having the most fun here" riff.
I'm not so sure about this (although shirley it depends on the bar/club you're at). I've found that in most environments I'm in, talking to women softens up other women to talk to me. Even if a high-SMV woman is not interested in talking to me, if I don't push it I can disengage politely and come away with extra points for talking to a hot girl. Because of this carryover (it's like a soft preselection), I just open whoever is openable (a 1 on the binary scale, looks friendly, not surrounded by clucksters) and chances are she'll introduce me to another woman.
The key is to not get an OBVIOUS rejection, and the way to do that is to be interesting, cool and tone down any kind of hitting-on-women vibe. You open a chick, you start talking to her friends (male or female), before you know it you're in a set of six people all chatting it up. People see it and it seems like you're a cool, nonthreatening guy.
It's not a good mindset to "sniper" the few chicks you're really into, it sets up a needy/oneitis frame of mind.
"Once I find a high traffic spot at a bar sometimes I think its best to wait for them to approach you, or, at least wait until you get an indicator of interest."
Dude, if you're getting girls to approach you (by which I mean they are saying the words that start the conversation), then more power to you, but I'm in the camp on this board that expecting that to happen is a poor strategy for a guy who isn't really good-looking or looks "interesting." I certainly believe in posting up and opening girls who pass by (leaning against the bar is a good one), it cuts down on the "hunter" vibe which you don't usually want and I find gets a lot of guys too amped up in the field.
"If those 1-3 "good fit" girls see you talking to other women, they may not bother coming into your proximity and/or flirt with you as they might guess that you are with them or interested in them"
Again, I have found the opposite - chatting with other women seems to oil up the girls I like to be more approachable, as they see me as more social. If she's the only person I talk to that night, she might get to wondering if I've been brooding on her.
"If you do decide to open, a simple "hi" or something similar is oftentimes enough; then screen for her reaction, and if she does not give indications of interest (e.g. continuing the conversation, eye contact, proximity) then cut it off right there"
I'm a big fan of the "throw out any bait and see if she bites." If her body agenda has decided it wants her to talk to you, it's on. You don't have to talk her into sleeping with you on the opener. In night game, she's going to communicate interest pretty quickly or not at all so cutting losses quickly is key so you don't get blown out publicly. I like Roosh's "you look like you're having the most fun here" riff.
"1. If she is with a guy, chances are, he's the one ordering/buying drinks,
2. If she's with friends and she's ordering, chances are she's the lower maintenance of the ground, or the biggest lush,
3. Her defensives are lower at this point because she's submissive to the bartender,
4. Close proximity isn't considered creepy since you're both trying to elbow your way in"
And, you have a captive audience but with a time constraint - she knows she can leave within two minutes or so and won't be cornered, but has the option to stay as well.
And you can turn your body away and twist your head to look at her, less direct and more accidental-conversation.
"Typically, I would say when you get your drink you should part ways to "see if my friend showed up, what's your name?" then see if she catches your eye again. If she does, she's IOId you big time. Move in and let her know your idiot friend decided to stay in with his girlfriend."
In a bar/club, I never push the first exchange. If it dies, it dies. I run my serious game the second time I talk her, when she has a modicum of familiarity with me and the "hitting-on-me" vibe is considerably reduced. Half the time she initiates the second approach.
A few weeks back I opened a woman in line for the bathroom. We had a minute of chitchat, then she left when her friend came out of the can. 30 minutes later I see her standing alone, she says hi and I make a comment about her friend being a bad friend and ditching her. We moved onto the dance floor and were making out within two minutes.
2. If she's with friends and she's ordering, chances are she's the lower maintenance of the ground, or the biggest lush,
3. Her defensives are lower at this point because she's submissive to the bartender,
4. Close proximity isn't considered creepy since you're both trying to elbow your way in"
And, you have a captive audience but with a time constraint - she knows she can leave within two minutes or so and won't be cornered, but has the option to stay as well.
And you can turn your body away and twist your head to look at her, less direct and more accidental-conversation.
"Typically, I would say when you get your drink you should part ways to "see if my friend showed up, what's your name?" then see if she catches your eye again. If she does, she's IOId you big time. Move in and let her know your idiot friend decided to stay in with his girlfriend."
In a bar/club, I never push the first exchange. If it dies, it dies. I run my serious game the second time I talk her, when she has a modicum of familiarity with me and the "hitting-on-me" vibe is considerably reduced. Half the time she initiates the second approach.
A few weeks back I opened a woman in line for the bathroom. We had a minute of chitchat, then she left when her friend came out of the can. 30 minutes later I see her standing alone, she says hi and I make a comment about her friend being a bad friend and ditching her. We moved onto the dance floor and were making out within two minutes.
Quote: (04-05-2012 08:16 PM)BadgerHut Wrote:
In a bar/club, I never push the first exchange. If it dies, it dies. I run my serious game the second time I talk her, when she has a modicum of familiarity with me and the "hitting-on-me" vibe is considerably reduced. Half the time she initiates the second approach.
Bingo, that's what I was getting at. You're in a setting with (hopefully) plenty of options, so don't rush it. Talk to her, get her name, see if she asks for your name, and stick her back in the oven so you can come back when she's cooked a little.
For club game, you really do have to practice solo for a long time before you're comfortable dealing without a wing. I know a few naturals who still can't go out solo, and it does show even when they're with wings.
Quote: (04-05-2012 08:09 PM)BadgerHut Wrote:
"As mentioned, your value goes down in the eyes of women who see you get rejected by other women (opposite of pre-selection) or even if she simply sees you initiate conversations with lots of women (conveys neediness). "
I'm not so sure about this (although shirley it depends on the bar/club you're at). I've found that in most environments I'm in, talking to women softens up other women to talk to me. Even if a high-SMV woman is not interested in talking to me, if I don't push it I can disengage politely and come away with extra points for talking to a hot girl. Because of this carryover (it's like a soft preselection), I just open whoever is openable (a 1 on the binary scale, looks friendly, not surrounded by clucksters) and chances are she'll introduce me to another woman.
The key is to not get an OBVIOUS rejection, and the way to do that is to be interesting, cool and tone down any kind of hitting-on-women vibe. You open a chick, you start talking to her friends (male or female), before you know it you're in a set of six people all chatting it up. People see it and it seems like you're a cool, nonthreatening guy.
It's not a good mindset to "sniper" the few chicks you're really into, it sets up a needy/oneitis frame of mind.
"Once I find a high traffic spot at a bar sometimes I think its best to wait for them to approach you, or, at least wait until you get an indicator of interest."
Dude, if you're getting girls to approach you (by which I mean they are saying the words that start the conversation), then more power to you, but I'm in the camp on this board that expecting that to happen is a poor strategy for a guy who isn't really good-looking or looks "interesting." I certainly believe in posting up and opening girls who pass by (leaning against the bar is a good one), it cuts down on the "hunter" vibe which you don't usually want and I find gets a lot of guys too amped up in the field.
"If those 1-3 "good fit" girls see you talking to other women, they may not bother coming into your proximity and/or flirt with you as they might guess that you are with them or interested in them"
Again, I have found the opposite - chatting with other women seems to oil up the girls I like to be more approachable, as they see me as more social. If she's the only person I talk to that night, she might get to wondering if I've been brooding on her.
"If you do decide to open, a simple "hi" or something similar is oftentimes enough; then screen for her reaction, and if she does not give indications of interest (e.g. continuing the conversation, eye contact, proximity) then cut it off right there"
I'm a big fan of the "throw out any bait and see if she bites." If her body agenda has decided it wants her to talk to you, it's on. You don't have to talk her into sleeping with you on the opener. In night game, she's going to communicate interest pretty quickly or not at all so cutting losses quickly is key so you don't get blown out publicly. I like Roosh's "you look like you're having the most fun here" riff.
I guess you have to find what works for you; if that works for you, great, keep doing it.
I used to be a mass-approach guy, at times both running around the club/bar or approaching a lot in my spot, wherever I happened to be be. But with the exception of a small number of cases it never really worked for me. In hindsight nearly all my success with women came after she gave me strong flirting signals and then I started up a conversation or she initiated the conversation first. The high quality girls who get hit on a lot are so used to being hit on that I think they like the challenge, and, further, they particularly and rightly believe that they deserve a high status guy; if they see a guy getting blown out a lot their views of you will drop quicker than those of less attractive women, IMO.
I realize that my let them come to you and initiate and/or show interest strategy in conjunction with my low-investment opener and ramble strategy is controversial, but, it is the personal game that I have slowly developed for myself overtime that has increased my odds, improved my inner state (inner game), and I simply enjoy it more.
Sometimes in social circle game I just flat-out ignore the girl I am interested in, or, just say hi in an indifferent way, while the males in the circle subtlety hit on her throughout the hanging out time; most girls are smart enough to figure this all out. During this process I often am just the laid-back guy not being try-hard and am having fun. Then to my amazement, I find her flirting with me, and from there I put in some effort into the interaction, if I decide she is quality (my mindset). This does not happen a ton but has happened on more than a few occasions and works better for me than initiating flirtation.
In contrast if I am in a relatively open setting like a bookstore or near a magazine rack, where other girls won't be able to witness blowouts, I may go more out of my way to approach and put more effort into the ramble, compared to say the bar scene and way way more effort compared to the circle setting scene, as I will likely never run into that girl again in my lifetime and will not be in the same space as her for any decent amount of time.
Quote: (04-05-2012 08:07 PM)ABDada Wrote:
Quote: (04-05-2012 08:05 PM)PDX Wrote:
There are plenty of reason to use post-up game, but concern of what others think of you shouldn't be one.
And if a gal you open calls you out on talking to other women, you can make her qualify herself pretty easily.
"Oh, you were watching me, were you?"
Onus is now on her.
But a gal who is interested won't say anything like that to call you out. However, her odds of initiating conversation and/or flirting will decrease. She may just stick with her friends where she's at.
Quote: (04-05-2012 08:05 PM)PDX Wrote:
Quote: (04-05-2012 02:26 PM)R_B Wrote:
As mentioned, your value goes down in the eyes of women who see you get rejected by other women (opposite of pre-selection) or even if she simply sees you initiate conversations with lots of women (conveys neediness).
Really opposed to this line of thinking. It's goes a long with the "what if" fears that keeps guys from approaching. Women in bars simply aren't attuned enough to the overall environment be paying attention to some random dude's blowoffs and rejections. And the few times that it *might* actually happen are so miniscule that it's not worth adjusting your strategy.
There are plenty of reason to use post-up game, but concern of what others think of you shouldn't be one.
Instead of approaching any cute girl I think it's much better to screen her for flirtatious signals, try to make eye contact with her (and test her reaction), and, if you open, just say something simple and then screen for her reaction. Girls are able to figure this stuff out, believe it or not, and are better at this type of communication than men (but are not able to create the structures for civilization, but that's just a minor detail ). If you say anything to a girl in a bar (besides something like "excuse me" as you walk by her, etc.), who is a stranger, and who does not work there, she will think you are probably interested in her romantically, and she is usually right. Think about it, would you even say "hi" or "what's up" to a fat or otherwise unattractive girl who came into your proximity at a bar? No, you would ignore her.
Quote: (04-03-2012 03:08 AM)speakeasy Wrote:
I see what you mean. I'm sure the quality is quite high. On the yelp review for Greystone someone says Rihanna parties there. So I'm guessing you get a lot of stars coming through there.
I totally understand the draw of that scene since that's where the best looking crowd is.
Do you have any suggestions of places similar to the Edison downtown? But maybe with higher quality? I like the fact that it's classy and people dress up and the place has a great vibe, ambiance and decor yet there's no drama getting in. Decent girls can be seen there but I'm sure it's no Graystone.
There's a definite drop in talent downtown, but a definite increase in interactions, and I'm sure you know what I mean. Girls downtown are more down to earth and approachable. That said, you'll never find anyplace downtown like what you find in Hollywood or West Hollywood. The exception to this is asian hotties, which you can find at The Association which is right next to Cole's. 8s or 9s are rare downtown, BUT, I have not tried any high end hotels or "power player" hangouts like steakhouses etc. Things might be different there. You might want to try Nick and Stef's or Patina. My favorite bars are downtown (The Varnish, Las Perlas, Casey's, Tony's Darts, Golden Gopher) but these are all places I generally go to have a good time, not to pick up. Quality rarely climbs above the 7 range.
What I noticed about quiet bars is they actually DO have really hot women, it's that they'll go in for very very short periods of time. They usually find 1, maybe 2 guys that catch their eye and if they don't see anything going with it, they'll leave.
I have bad hearing loss and tinnitus starting in 1996 at age 33--now I am 51 and both are getting worse...Very serious as I am now really starting to have issues with communication which affects my game immensly..Hearing aids are not far off :-(....So my nightgame is limited to the streets, 7/11's, cafe's, coffee shops, night markets, coffee shops, quiet bars, lounges and resteraunts are the way to go for me...Clubs and anywhere with live music are 100% out even with ear plugs...Acoustic or unplugged music 100% ok and I love that..So I get really depressed when I read about my nightgame on here..Any how I hate drinking (affects my libido and I hate hangovers--even one drink is murderous on your energy via less REMS sleep)....Thoughts feedback appreciated...
Think about game as layers.
If you increase the the quality or power of the layers before to a high level, then the layers that come will be better than if you didn't.
The analogy I'm think about is film editing. Often, film makers will keep putting off mistakes they made when writing a script or directing, and wait until the editing stage: "we'll fix it in post production"
This usually ends up as a struggle for the editor and often the film suffers.
On the other hand, a great script is easier to direct, and a well directed movie is easy to edit.
Don't fix it in post.
If you find a way to be around beautiful women without it being cold, it's going to be easier to get them.
It depends on how badly you want it.
If you increase the the quality or power of the layers before to a high level, then the layers that come will be better than if you didn't.
The analogy I'm think about is film editing. Often, film makers will keep putting off mistakes they made when writing a script or directing, and wait until the editing stage: "we'll fix it in post production"
This usually ends up as a struggle for the editor and often the film suffers.
On the other hand, a great script is easier to direct, and a well directed movie is easy to edit.
Don't fix it in post.
If you find a way to be around beautiful women without it being cold, it's going to be easier to get them.
It depends on how badly you want it.
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