[Menace]

Does anyone (American's) here own any property in a foreign country? Does it make any sense at all to do so? I've been contemplating buying something in a place like Bangkok (like a nice 1 or 2 br condo), but I wonder if this is at all smart. Of course, South of France is also not a bad place to buy. I'm talking about places that cost between $100K and $200K USD in central or near-central locations.

Advantages:
a) always have home base that you have control over
b) you can rent it out for when you're not there (not always easy however)
c) long term it can appreciate

Disadvantages
a) feel like you have to go there even if you want to go somewhere else
b) dealing with foreign property laws/management company
c) unless you buy for cash, it's a mortgage (if you don't rent it)
d) miscellaneous foreign idiosyncrasies

Ideally it might be nice to have two such homes: one in Europe and one in SE Asia, or maybe alternatively one in Europe and one in Central/South America.

[Gringuito]

I'm an American and I own properties overseas. I like having a place of my own where I travel. I think you'll run into problems getting a mortgage for an overseas property, I always pay in cash. For example, buying a home in France is a bit of a pain (need a French bank account, pay taxes, etc.) and you'll need good real estate lawyers and accountants. Selling can also be a problem with bad liquidity of some housing markets. I'm not familiar with buying a place in Bangkok.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-12-2012 05:46 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

I'm an American and I own properties overseas. I like having a place of my own where I travel. I think you'll run into problems getting a mortgage for an overseas property, I always pay in cash. For example, buying a home in France is a bit of a pain (need a French bank account, pay taxes, etc.) and you'll need good real estate lawyers and accountants. Selling can also be a problem with bad liquidity of some housing markets. I'm not familiar with buying a place in Bangkok.

Which countries/cities do you own properties in?

Which are your experiences with each?

[Menace]

(03-12-2012 05:46 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

I'm an American and I own properties overseas. I like having a place of my own where I travel. I think you'll run into problems getting a mortgage for an overseas property, I always pay in cash. For example, buying a home in France is a bit of a pain (need a French bank account, pay taxes, etc.) and you'll need good real estate lawyers and accountants. Selling can also be a problem with bad liquidity of some housing markets. I'm not familiar with buying a place in Bangkok.

As G said, more details please! Agree with you about the cash, that's how it would probably go down. Actually, you could take out a HELOC here, which is tax deductable to fund the purchase somewhere else.

Do you rent it out when you're not there? Is there a problem not renting it out for a full year b/c you want to use it as well?

[Gringuito]

I own a place in Medellin, Colombia. It's a 700 sq. meters penthouse near El Tesoro mall. I bought it cash and I have to pay monthly administration and property taxes every 3 months. I also have to file taxes as if I had income in Colombia because of the property there.

I also have a place up in the hills in Nice, France. I bought this quite a while a ago and it was a pain back then. I had to bring in one of the large accounting firms (AA back then) to do all the work. I don't rent out any of them, I keep some clothes in each one to make traveling easy and painless.

If I had to do it over again I would probably do a long-term yearly rentals instead of buying but I'm lucky to have help with the messy details of handling the properties. Owning property in the states is 100 times easier.

[1bliss]

(03-12-2012 06:22 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

I own a place in Medellin, Colombia. It's a 700 sq. meters penthouse near El Tesoro mall. I bought it cash and I have to pay monthly administration and property taxes every 3 months. I also have to file taxes as if I had income in Colombia because of the property there.

I also have a place up in the hills in Nice, France. I bought this quite a while a ago and it was a pain back then. I had to bring in one of the large accounting firms (AA back then) to do all the work. I don't rent out any of them, I keep some clothes in each one to make traveling easy and painless.

If I had to do it over again I would probably do a long-term yearly rentals instead of buying but I'm lucky to have help with the messy details of handling the properties. Owning property in the states is 100 times easier.

Extremely jealous of you! Nice, France is one of my favorite places in the world, especially up on the hills. Too bad I haven't been in quite a while.

How is it there recently in terms of women and the nightlife? The scenery obviously hasn't changed lol, still beautiful! And the summers there, wow, absolutely perfect weather!

[Tigre]

It can often be a great idea. All depends on your goals, though.

Disadvantage is not that it's hard to rent. More likely, you'll find it's permanently rented and you can never use it! I tend to rent my properties on a fixed lease, or at least by the month. If you rented by the day, it would be different, of course.

Another disadvantage: if you rent furnished, you really don't want high end stuff in there, or it will sting when someone mistreats it. Like, coffee stains directly on your wood surfaces.

Suppose you want to rent unfurnished. Each of your tenants is probably getting the utilities connected directly in his/her own name. So when you want to use your property, you need to refurnish it (or have the furniture stored somewhere nearby). You also have to connect all the utilities in your own name for the duration of your stay.

A lot of people would welcome the diversification of spreading their net worth across different currencies. If you decided not to invest outside the US, and you net worth is 100% in USD, you haven't avoided currency risk. In fact, you've concentrated it entirely in one currency.

With overseas property, you've protected yourself from asset seizure and lawsuit risks by having your property in a different legal jurisdiction.

Of course, you want to be sure you're buying in a country where private property rights and rule of law are well established.

It's extra work to administer (foreign languages, tax returns etc). Also, if you want to make a will you need to put in place a plan for winding up your holdings in various corners of the world.

[Gringuito]

(03-12-2012 06:33 PM)1bliss Wrote:  

Extremely jealous of you! Nice, France is one of my favorite places in the world, especially up on the hills. Too bad I haven't been in quite a while.

How is it there recently in terms of women and the nightlife? The scenery obviously hasn't changed lol, still beautiful! And the summers there, wow, absolutely perfect weather!

I agree about Nice, the beauty doesn't change. The beaches themselves are not much but everything else is great. I really like it's location, close to Monoco and Northern Italy in one direction and Cannes in the other direction.

To be honest I don't have a french flag, lol. I normally bring girls from EE to my place and we hang out. The people are much friendlier in Nice than in Paris. I hope you get a chance to get back there this summer.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-12-2012 06:22 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

I own a place in Medellin, Colombia. It's a 700 sq. meters penthouse near El Tesoro mall. I bought it cash and I have to pay monthly administration and property taxes every 3 months. I also have to file taxes as if I had income in Colombia because of the property there.

I also have a place up in the hills in Nice, France. I bought this quite a while a ago and it was a pain back then. I had to bring in one of the large accounting firms (AA back then) to do all the work. I don't rent out any of them, I keep some clothes in each one to make traveling easy and painless.

If I had to do it over again I would probably do a long-term yearly rentals instead of buying but I'm lucky to have help with the messy details of handling the properties. Owning property in the states is 100 times easier.

Feel free to bust out as many details as you feel comfortable with. I am sure I am not the only one on here that would find this interesting.

Price?

Profit so far? Or loss?

Process?

etc

[Gringuito]

(03-12-2012 07:20 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Feel free to bust out as many details as you feel comfortable with. I am sure I am not the only one on here that would find this interesting.

Price?

Profit so far? Or loss?

Process?

etc

The Medellin property:

$250,000 initial and another $80,000 in renovations. I've not really looked at how much I could sell it for but I would guess a profit just based on the size and location. The problem is that only Americans like penthouses in Medellin. The locals aren't interested in the great views and hate having to deal with water leaks on the top floor. The process was easy, I already had a bank account when I bought this apartment. I just wire transferred the cash and did the Form 4 paperwork and other documents. The problem was that the legal process didn't end for over a year and some of my neighbors don't like non-Colombians. If you're ever in MDE send me an e-mail, I can show it to you.

The Nice villa:

It's been about 14 years but it cost a bit under 1M USD back then. The process was a royal pain, I had Arthur Andersen help out and they used a local company to handle the legal compliance on their end. I still have Plante & Moran handle the yearly tax issues. I have a nice couple that keep tabs on it while I'm not there. I think this has appreciated as well but I've not looked at the marked there. With the problems in Europe maybe not.

I don't invest in real estate, I just buy to live. I make my money elsewhere.

[1bliss]

You bought all of this with cash? If so, without going into any details that you don't want to mention, what industry do you work in?

[Gringuito]

(03-12-2012 09:48 PM)1bliss Wrote:  

You bought all of this with cash? If so, without going into any details that you don't want to mention, what industry do you work in?

Computers and insurance, boring and profitable

[thegmanifesto]

(03-12-2012 10:03 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

$250,000 initial and another $80,000 in renovations.

It is crazy how Medellin is more expensive than vast swaths of America.

[patron]

I own 4 house in Cabarete, Dominican Republic. I bought the property and oversaw the construction. Very easy process. I didn't need to be a resident and I pay no property taxes.

[chyamor]

(03-12-2012 10:34 PM)patron Wrote:  

I own 4 house in Cabarete, Dominican Republic. I bought the property and oversaw the construction. Very easy process. I didn't need to be a resident and I pay no property taxes.

Do you plan on renting out?

[The Fantasist]

(03-12-2012 07:43 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

The Medellin property:

$250,000 initial and another $80,000 in renovations. I've not really looked at how much I could sell it for but I would guess a profit just based on the size and location. The problem is that only Americans like penthouses in Medellin. The locals aren't interested in the great views and hate having to deal with water leaks on the top floor. The process was easy, I already had a bank account when I bought this apartment. I just wire transferred the cash and did the Form 4 paperwork and other documents. The problem was that the legal process didn't end for over a year and some of my neighbors don't like non-Colombians. If you're ever in MDE send me an e-mail, I can show it to you.

The Nice villa:

It's been about 14 years but it cost a bit under 1M USD back then. The process was a royal pain, I had Arthur Andersen help out and they used a local company to handle the legal compliance on their end. I still have Plante & Moran handle the yearly tax issues. I have a nice couple that keep tabs on it while I'm not there. I think this has appreciated as well but I've not looked at the marked there. With the problems in Europe maybe not.

I don't invest in real estate, I just buy to live. I make my money elsewhere.

Fantastic.

I'm down in Nice pretty much every month for some r&r, love the place. My closest friends have a villa in Ville Franche Sur Mer which has views overlooking the Cap Ferrat peninsula so I fly in for some fun.

[attachment=5331]

The entire coast from Nice up to San Remo is spectacular. Will probably look to retire there when the time comes.

How often do you fly in?

[portofmanteau]

70sqm, no? Not 700sqm.
Smart buy, though.

(03-12-2012 06:22 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

I own a place in Medellin, Colombia. It's a 700 sq. meters penthouse near El Tesoro mall. I bought it cash and I have to pay monthly administration and property taxes every 3 months. I also have to file taxes as if I had income in Colombia because of the property there.

I also have a place up in the hills in Nice, France. I bought this quite a while a ago and it was a pain back then. I had to bring in one of the large accounting firms (AA back then) to do all the work. I don't rent out any of them, I keep some clothes in each one to make traveling easy and painless.

If I had to do it over again I would probably do a long-term yearly rentals instead of buying but I'm lucky to have help with the messy details of handling the properties. Owning property in the states is 100 times easier.

[Pilgrim37]

You could have this about 30k's out of Fortaleza in Ceara for $200,000 few metres from the beach

For that money you couldn't get a one bedroom basement flat without windows in London!

   

[patron]

I own a small resort in Cabarete, DR. I have 4 villas with swimming pool. 5 minute walk to beach/city center. I have plans/property to build an additional 4 villas in the future.

I live in Santiago, about 1.5 hours ago. I never really used them, unless I want to bring a few girls to the beach for the weekend.

[Gringuito]

(03-14-2012 02:36 PM)portofmanteau Wrote:  

70sqm, no? Not 700sqm.
Smart buy, though.

700 sqm, 7100 sqf. It has a 2000 sqf two level terrace with really good views. I've let a couple of music videos be shot at my place.

[Gringuito]

(03-13-2012 11:58 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

Fantastic.

I'm down in Nice pretty much every month for some r&r, love the place. My closest friends have a villa in Ville Franche Sur Mer which has views overlooking the Cap Ferrat peninsula so I fly in for some fun.

...
How often do you fly in?

I'm usually there during the summers, late June to July/August. Send me a PM if you'll be there this summer. It would be good to get together if we're both there.

[joehoya]

(03-14-2012 02:36 PM)portofmanteau Wrote:  

70sqm, no? Not 700sqm.
Smart buy, though.
...

If he paid $250K for it several years ago in Medellin, and dropped an additional $80K in rehab, I bet that he does mean 700sqm (i.e. 7,000 sqf), not 70sqm (i.e. 700sqf). Those numbers are pretty much in line with someone buying down there.

On my first trip to Medellin, about 4 years ago, a guy was trying to sell a completely rehabed penthouse in Poblado (or it might have been Envigado) for $250K. 5 bedrooms, I lost count of how many bathrooms, outdoor Jacuzzi on the balcony, overlooking the city and the mountains, indoor Jacuzzi in the master bedroom. IIRC, it was 500sqm.

I actually rented it for a while at a crazy low daily rate.. The place was fucking sick. I might as well have put a sign at the entryway saying "Ladies, leave your panties at the door." It just screamed BALLER/DRUG-DEALER. It was one of those places that was actually too nice for me when traveling in Colombia.

When the guy told me that he was trying to sell it for $250K, I almost choked. In DC or Chicago, you would have to add an extra zero to the number to get a place like that. Prices in Medellin have gone up since then.


EDIT:
I see that Gringuito already answered the question.

[The Fantasist]

(03-14-2012 05:46 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

I'm usually there during the summers, late June to July/August. Send me a PM if you'll be there this summer. It would be good to get together if we're both there.

Yes I'll be down over the summer at some point so I'll pm you nearer the time. Will be great to hit some spots together.

[portofmanteau]

(03-14-2012 05:44 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

700 sqm, 7100 sqf. It has a 2000 sqf two level terrace with really good views. I've let a couple of music videos be shot at my place.

Respect. Really nice grab. I bought a place in Buenos Aires in 2007 for 100k, dropped about 50k into it on renovations, it's nice... But not 700 sqm of nice, jesus.