[Amour Fou]

This came up when Blurb PMd me after reading my post on buying girls drinks in Brazilian and American culture.

I sort of got carried away with my answer and after talking with him, I decided to share, as it seems to be an interesting comparison all can add their share.

I checked for my spelling and added a few points that worth mentioning; here it goes:

Quote:

blurb Wrote:It was interesting to read Roosh's insights (an American) into Brazilian dating and how shocked he was with Brazilian women's attitudes and behavior.

I am curious if you could tell me a bit more about your (a Brazilian) thoughts and insights into American women and dating. Were you surprised? Shocked? What things stood out? Was that experience with that woman yelling at you to buy another birthday woman a drink common and surprising?

Hey Blurb,

The thing is, you ought to take my views on the matter with a certain grain of salt. I'd say that something like 80% or so of my experience with "American women" were actually with Hawaiian women, particularly from the island of Oahu (city of Honolulu) where I lived for 5 months (with some side trips to neighbouring islands). I did have some interaction with women from the mainland while in Oahu, and also in my short stays while in San Francisco and Los Angeles, and I had a better impression of the girls from the mainland over the girls in Hawaii.

Nevertheless, if you are interested, I have some cultural observations that I carry.

I will discribe in loose terms the main differences I find between Brazilian women and American women.

I'd say that a big characteristic of American women (possibly not only women, and possibly not only American - I'm tempted to encompass Anglo-Saxon-Protestant culture as whole, though it is just my theory) is that they are more divided in psychological terms.

What do I mean by this? They are more repressed, and thus their "shadow" elements are hidden deeper and further away from their conscious awareness. It seems that people are either "good" or "bad" with no grey areas. This is something that I found to be widespread within American culture: complete intolerance for grey areas, the need to have everything labeled (I was never asked my "race" so much as when I was over there), the need to have everything measured and out there in the clear, the need to have everything “captured” and chewed out. This obviously has its effect on people.

Back to women - so you get the "good girl" -that is just the flip side of the "bad girl"- and vice versa.

The more repressive the culture, the more divided and reactive people are.

That is how "hardcore sluts" are made, how these crazed binge drinkers that have to be carried by bouncers in the clubs are made. It is a way to cope and compensate for too much repression, too much "rights and wrongs". At the same time you get all the church-going girls with their "purity rings" and their "virgin rallies" or whatever. The same phenomena but from different sides. -The prude and the slut are the same thing in essence, and both trying to grasp for air the way they can-

Whereas in a less repressive culture like Brazil, things take a different turn.

Girls tend to be more spontaneous and "warm". You see Carnival over here, right? Girls completely undressed etc etc, people fucking a lot... but the phenomena here is different: people are more "open" sexually, and thus less repressed. People fuck a lot not because they are repressed little sheep compensating for something, more so because they have less of these concepts of "right" or "wrong" ingrained in them, and are more naturally expressive of their bodily desires. (I honesly believe that the warm weather is part of it also)

But you get the dark side of it as well... You get very young girls getting pregnant and giving birth to 5 kids before they are 15 (an exaggeration, but could happen)... that is the lack of repression, the lack of "no" and "don't". It is not "slutiness" as it is in America, it derives from a lack of structure, not "too much" structure. That is why there are some very messy scenarios here. I’d say that the corruption we have here is a symptom of that as well. This “laxness” has its dark side- there is this cultural phenomena called “jeitinho brasileiro”, the “Brazilian way to ger round things”. A cop wants so fine you? Grease him and you are set. The druglords were busted by the police? More grease and it is all good.

The same apply to politics... Politicians are also “less guilty” to grab people’s money; a historical problem in Brazil.

But the thing is, it is easier to find in Brazil this midrange where girls will be open and sexual and warm without being sluts and without "over-playing" their game (like with the "buy me a drink" crap) while knowing how to flirt and knowing what they want (pleasure) with less guilt, less "no-no".

I had the impression with the crazies in Hawaii that they were so out of touch with this basic "playfulness" ("spontaneity", "ease") of the dynamic between the sexes that even when they were genuinly attracted to a guy's "charm" ("game", personality, humor etc) there was something (ill) that clicked in them and made them recoil into their heads (away from their body!) and start analyzing the "added benefits" such guy would have -status, money, what external benefit they could add. So it seemed to be a denial of a more organic and basic (natural?) dynamic, the "dance", the "mating ritual" that happens between the polarity of men and women and the playful fun that comes with it.

Sad.

Obviously not saying that things are perfect over here in Brazil (I've written about the moody period I'm going through over some posts at Vicious' Lounge), but it seems to me that a more natural dynamic between men and women can operate more freely, without such "external impositions" (that can be exemplified by the "buy me a drink if you want to talk to me" crap -the whole power play that is a symptom of deep unresolved wounds and feelings of smallness and impotence caused by the whole repressive megastructure and all its ramifications) getting in the way, at least with such force as I witnessed in the US.

(I've witnessed this too in the UK... thus my call on "Anglo" culture).

I think I got carried away... would you mind if I used this as a post for the forum?

cheers!

[Excelsior]

Very good post. I touched on a similar theme last year in a post describing America's cultural quirks. To sum it up, Americans are highly adversarial:

(05-31-2011 12:39 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

It is unique to the culture. America's unique blend of puritanism, isolation, and diversity during its formation created a unique set of results. The relatively low quality of the women here relates to puritanism and adversarialism, both key aspects of American culture.

-Adversarialism: Americans like conflict. It isn't a cohesive, united culture-people here like to pick sides and fight doggedly over things. This makes the gender war here more antagonistic than it is in many other places. This also makes American feminism far more hostile to men than the kind seen in other cultures.

This type of culture is antithetical to compromise or cohesion, which is why you see no grey areas (and probably never will). Americans just love to fight too much. Dog eats dog, winner takes all-that's just the American way.

[Mr.GM]

I'm very interested to live in the United States in some point at my life , both for personal and professional growth , but the more I read about it , the more I feel like it would be very hard to adapt and to connect with women in general(not only women that I would want to bang) .
Funny thing is we here in São Paulo like to think that we live in cut-throat culture(compared to Rio it definitely is) , but America is much more "brutal" in that sense. Its just out front aggressive.
And the kind of girl who say "fuck" in every sentence turns me off.. It would be hard to adapt to this.

anyway , I still want to live there at some point , at least I will grow through suffering.

[durangotang]

(03-05-2012 06:54 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Very good post. I touched on a similar theme last year in a post describing America's cultural quirks. To sum it up, Americans are highly adversarial:

(05-31-2011 12:39 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

It is unique to the culture. America's unique blend of puritanism, isolation, and diversity during its formation created a unique set of results. The relatively low quality of the women here relates to puritanism and adversarialism, both key aspects of American culture.

-Adversarialism: Americans like conflict. It isn't a cohesive, united culture-people here like to pick sides and fight doggedly over things. This makes the gender war here more antagonistic than it is in many other places. This also makes American feminism far more hostile to men than the kind seen in other cultures.

This type of culture is antithetical to compromise or cohesion, which is why you see no grey areas (and probably never will). Americans just love to fight too much. Dog eats dog, winner takes all-that's just the American way.

Excellent thread. It's a funny thing really, the insights you get from reading about different places. The only solution is travel.

I am American and I always viewed us as a largely middle class culture, where the average person here lives better than elsewhere. That's what I grew up to believe anyway. Of course this is changing, due to globalization, amongst other things, but despite our dog eat dog perception the middle class in America is much larger than Brazil.

America has a lot to offer, if anyone is thinking about coming here - do it. A lot of the posts on here are from Americans, and the grass is always greener on the other side.

[GunznButta]

not to hijack this into a religion thread but.....

@Amour: +1. agree with most of what u said but to distill it further.....

i think the difference when it comes down to it it is a difference between the catholic and protestant ways of thinking. lemme esplain...

catholicism has to a greater degree reconciled the diff between the dualities of man -- that he can be both spiritual and base at the same time (just look at an irish priest....if he's not boozing he's molesting kiddies but he could also be quite harmless....but i digress....) women can be whores and virgins (ie: mary magdalene) in catholicism there's always hope of redemption -- however remote.

protestantism (at least in the american vein) hasn't come to terms with that duality/conflicting natures in man. there's always temptation and, in the american construct, giving in is TOTALLY UNFORGIVABLE. (just ask jimmys swaggart, bakker or ted haggard how their lives turned out after their "SINS" were exposed...) if you want a current example just look at how rush limbaugh is torching himself into crazyass corners these days. he's downright nutz compared to where he was in the late 90's.

it makes american protestantism a perversion (IMO) which is why i ignore the rantings of the religions zealots (like santorum) that pop up on the idiot box. there's no tolerance or forgiveness in american view on religion.

as "conservative" santorum think he is these days, there was a time when sugar, caffeine and (gasp!) alcohol were thought of as the devil's temptations. good luck to him on trying to ban those drugs.....

the fact that santorum wouldn't address how his name has become a google bomb is a prime example...

anyways, america has a lot to offer. it's to show you how freaky the funhouse mirror of humanity can be. if you really see all the humanity here in these 50 states (from the amish to dog the bounty hunter) you'll get by pretty well in the rest of the world can throw at you....

to your OP: i don't deal with merikans cows anymore coz i have no tolerance for their agendas -- whether it's to be a drink, dinner, shopping or vacation whore. they're all f' in whores with agendas....

[Amour Fou]

(03-06-2012 04:17 AM)GunznButta Wrote:  

i think the difference when it comes down to it it is a difference between the catholic and protestant ways of thinking. lemme esplain...

catholicism has to a greater degree reconciled the diff between the dualities of man -- that he can be both spiritual and base at the same time (just look at an irish priest....if he's not boozing he's molesting kiddies but he could also be quite harmless....but i digress....) women can be whores and virgins (ie: mary magdalene) in catholicism there's always hope of redemption -- however remote.

protestantism (at least in the american vein) hasn't come to terms with that duality/conflicting natures in man. there's always temptation and, in the american construct, giving in is TOTALLY UNFORGIVABLE. (just ask jimmys swaggart, bakker or ted haggard how their lives turned out after their "SINS" were exposed...) if you want a current example just look at how rush limbaugh is torching himself into crazyass corners these days. he's downright nutz compared to where he was in the late 90's.

I actully think this is an excellent point! It says a lot.

Think about it: it is no coincidence that some of the few places in the US that were historically Catholic, the example that I have being New Orleans, are more "liberal" (- this is a truly American expression, the way I see it).

New Orleans and the state of Louisiana was run by the Spanish and Catholic culture in the past. Until this day, New Orleans is one of the few places in the US you can carry alcohol in the streets and they have Mardi Gras (which is the same as Carnival in Brazil - "Carnival" is a Catholic celebration.) Mardi Gras ("Fat Tuesday") actually happens the same time Carnival is going on in Brazil. It is the same holiday.

But also... New Orleans is one of the most "dangerous" cities in the US as far as I know. Coincidence?

There is more to this, but I'm not versed in either Protestantism or Catholicism to dig deeper.

Very interesting point nevertheless.

[Mr.GM]

(03-06-2012 06:08 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

Until this day, New Orleans is one of the few places in the US you can carry alcohol in the streets

Amour, The SP state house is going to try to pass a new law to forbid alcohol consumption in the streets. Put that with the recent non-smoking laws and DUI laws...

Police state coming to our corners?

[Excelsior]

(03-05-2012 06:17 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

There is more to this, but I'm not versed in either Protestantism or Catholicism to dig deeper.

The key we're looking for relates to the specific type of protestantism you see in the USA. Keep in mind, nations like Germany have largely protestant roots as well, despite being a far cry from the USA in character. The United States has a unique factor in play. What is that?

Puritan Calvinism

This form of religion is the key to understanding most of modern America's pathologies. Why? Because it is the primary root of American culture. Our nation (the original 13 colonies) was founded upon the basis of protestant puritanism and its descendants.

Our nation's expansion to its current size was based on a Puritan concept ("Manifest Destiny"-still exists today in the belief that America is responsible for spreading democracy, guiding and "showing the light" to the rest of the world). Descendants of Puritans (their religious principles have been appropriated many times over by different churches over time) have guided our nation's economic, political and cultural development since the very beginning, and have had a FAR larger say than anyone else.

Because of their position as founders of our nation and the primary guides of its religous, political and social culture, the Puritan legacy is everywhere in America even today. If you want to understand why Americans are the way they are, you must understand Puritanism. Even those who arrived in America long after the Puritans have inherited this legacy-they made the culture, so any assimilation into that culture by any group is a step closer to Puritanism. This is why even the Catholics in America (the Irish and the Italians) exhibit many traits tied to the Puritan legacy-it is inescapable.

The culture Gunznbutta talks about (sins are unforgivable, no second chances, etc) is a direct product of puritanism. To make this clear, here are some of the key features of this religion:

1. Work is the greatest honor, and the solution to all ailments. Puritans believed it a religous duty to spend ALL time productively.

Did you ever wonder why the United States is one of the only countries in the world to lack mandatory vacation time, and why Americans work so much longer and harder than just about anyone else on average?

This is why. Work has always been sacred in America-all time must be used productively, even at the expense of one's mental or physical health. Americans know no other way.

2. Pre-destination and Limited Atonement. In the catholic faith, as Amour just noted, atonement is far from limited. Everyone can get a second chance.

Puritans, on the other hand, specifically promoted the notion that god only saved a few "chosen people", selected before birth, and died only for their sins. If you were not chosen, you were damned regardless of what you did. This is the concept of pre-destination.

Thus, in the puritan mind, humans were not only limited in the second chances they could receive, but most didn't even receive one chance. Furthermore, there was nothing they could do about it-god figured it all out before they were born, and he didn't change his mind.

This is where that lack of grey areas and the culture of intense adversarialism (me against you, winner take all) comes from. Puritan culture (from which the modern American one primarily descends) simply does not condone the idea of cohesion and compromise. Everything is black and white-you are either damned, or you're not. You're either pious, or you're not. You have no say (there is no moving yourself from one side to the other), and there is no middle ground. Americans have never known it.

3. Dedication to piety. In spite of not even knowing whether or not they were damned, Puritans were still expected to live as righteously as was humanly possible. For this reason, much of their productive time (which, as mentioned in the first point, was nearly ALL of their time) was spent on religous activity. Church services and bible readings were constant. Morality guided all life.

America is probably among the more conservative and religious of developed nations. This is the main reason why.

4. Denial of self-gratification. As mentioned in the first point, work was the greatest honor, and to be idle was sinful. This meant denying pleasure (pleasure = sinful). To live a hard life was an honor-if you were enjoying yourself as a Puritan, you were doing it wrong. If it isn't difficult, then it isn't worthwhile. It it is easy, then it ought to be made harder.

This is where we see the repression (sexual and otherwise) in American society stem from. We live in a society that has, from its inception, said that pleasure was wrong. You can imagine how this would lead to a lot of sexual and other hang ups.

The average Puritan was also expected to be very hard on his/herself, since rigid self-examination was expected in order to achieve piety and live a holy life. I'm sure you can guess how a culture that promotes denying pleasure, working constantly at all costs, never compromising, never having a say in your own damnation (the uncertainty about which hangs over you your whole life as you're constantly reminded of it in church) and then encourages you to constantly beat yourself up about all of this could create problems down the road.

This is why America is the way it is.

On a more global note: The United Kingdom is often considered to be culturally the closest nation to America in existence, with many of the same pathologies (though slightly toned down in most cases).
It is no coincidence that the Puritan revolution began in England, and remained prominent there (though less so than in the USA) for centuries.

[Excelsior]

As a corollary to my post above, it should also be noted that American drug policy (which is now coming under serious question) is also tied to all of this.

[Deluge]

I've read Albion's Seed as I suspect you have, which covered colonial migrations to America, including the Puritan migration to New England. But the Southern colonies were overwhelmingly Anglican, and Anglicanism is far different from the Calvinism of Puritan New England or the Presbyterian Appalachia. Yet today the most sexually repressed region of America aside from Utah is the formerly Anglican Deep South, while Puritan New England is now the most liberalized and liberal region of America.

[Amour Fou]

(03-06-2012 08:30 AM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 06:08 AM)Amour Fou Wrote:  

Until this day, New Orleans is one of the few places in the US you can carry alcohol in the streets

Amour, The SP state house is going to try to pass a new law to forbid alcohol consumption in the streets. Put that with the recent non-smoking laws and DUI laws...

Police state coming to our corners?

Dude, I think it is very very dangerous if this law passes down. It is the first movement of a huge snowball that will start to move this crazed police culture to whip our so dear South American asses.


This cannot happen.


----

@ Athlone - Thanks for your replies; they were very insightful and clarifying, it makes complete sense within the overall figure we are discussing.

...Where is this all heading???

[Excelsior]

(03-10-2012 02:01 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

I've read Albion's Seed as I suspect you have, which covered colonial migrations to America, including the Puritan migration to New England.

I actually have not read that book. I should do so sometime.

Quote:

But the Southern colonies were overwhelmingly Anglican, and Anglicanism is far different from the Calvinism of Puritan New England or the Presbyterian Appalachia. Yet today the most sexually repressed region of America aside from Utah is the formerly Anglican Deep South, while Puritan New England is now the most liberalized and liberal region of America.

My theory on this is as follows:

1. Puritanism, though not dominant everywhere in America, was still a larger influence than the other religious philosophies outlined. This is due simply to the fact that a) Puritans got here first and b) they dominated the nation's political, economic and social life for most of its first couple of centuries in existence. The Northeast, where the Puritans congregated most strongly, was the engine of american economic and political growth (and still is today, though to a lesser extent), the center of government and everything else of significant meaning.

Thus, their influence still touched other parts of the country (though likely to a lesser extent than in the Northeast), creating some of the same effects (ex: sexual repression) that I mentioned earlier. The fact that Puritanism is a branch of anglicanism (the two are not distantly related, but somewhat close) may play a role as well.

2. New England's liberalism is, in my estimation, a rebellion against the longstanding insanity of Puritanism. It is a lashing out against a cultural system that has been too repressive for too long. The south, though touched heavily by Puritanism as I mentioned earlier, did not deal with the philosophy as extensively as Northeasterners, who lived in its epicenter. Thus, they do not rebel as vehemently, since they simply haven't as much to rebel against.

[blurb]

Here is another Brazilian's views on the topic. The original post can be found here.

The one bolded sentence pretty much sums up what's wrong with America.

ThankTheStarsIHaveBrasil Wrote:

I'M GOING TO SETTLE THIS ARGUMENT WITH ONE POST, ONCE AND FOR ALL.

I was curious what the online buzz on this topic was about (I literally googled "forum what is wrong with american women?") and it led me here.

I'll try to keep this short, but before I begin, just so nobody can make assumptions about me and how the 'problem is probably with me', let me describe myself briefly. I'm not perfect, and I've always downplayed my own ego and self to try to remain humble and grounded in life, but I do have several good qualities that make me a 'good catch':

I'm 30ish, 6 feet tall, short blonde hair, in very strong athletic shape, I practice martial arts, girls have always called me 'cute, handsome, etc'. I work from home, its a sales company me and some partners started, so I make good money, self-employed. I also read and write alot, I'm working on a novel on the side, I play the guitar, so I definitely have a creative, thinking side. Personality-wise I've always been pretty easygoing, laid back, humorous, easy to talk, easy to listen, I 'get people' so socially i get by pretty well. Oh, and I'm originally from Brasil, even though I've been an American since I was a child, but I still speak Portuguese.

So, like I said, I'm not perfect, obviously I didn't list my flaws above, but the point is, there are *plenty* of men out there with a less attractive overall package to offer women, even American women.

So what do I think of American women after living in the US for 20 years, in the Bay Area, California and then Seattle, Washington (for the last 3 years)? (remember, I am from Brasil, and I have travelled back several times, plus I'm a writer so I'm very well informed about the world...)

The answer is, American women, especially the white ones, and especially in big cities, coming from all the experience and knowledge I have about life, are absolutely the worst women in the entire planet.

I've had some girlfriends as an adult here, so I'm not some bitter virgin/hermit, but I recently started my business, and all I am doing is counting the dollars and counting the days until I can move back to Brasil. Permanently. By the way, I currently do have a girlfriend, she's a sweet cute 18 year old still in high school (yes she's 18 I checked) and we have great sex and a great time, so it's not like I'm alone and unhappy. And also I know how to talk to women, so anytime if I am single, I can go hit up the town, talk to girls, get numbers, spark up some dates (after enough trial and error and rejection of course, but that's how dating is) and eventually get another girlfriend if I had to.

But this isn't about me so much as it is an objective attempt to seal the argument about what American women are really like. The information about me is just to give you the reader a reference point so that you may know that I am qualified to speak on the issue with some authority and experience, as well as many years (at least a decade) of constantly pondering these cultural and sociological issues, since they have always bothered me.

First off, American culture may be a melting pot, at least in most big cities, which is a 'positive benefit' many people use to try to defend it, but unfortunately that is *literally* the case, it's not just a euphomism: people come here from great cultures from all over the world but they just get 'melted into the pot'. A Chinese might end up in Chinatown, a Cuban might end up in Little Havana in Miami, but as far as the general culture there is no cultural sharing or diversity. This is a myth, a lie. There is mostly only mainstream commercial American culture, it is very dominant, it is very widespread and homogenized, and most white people buy into it and live in it. Not all, but most. And mainstream American culture and as a result many people in it, both men and women, is a very young, selfish, disrespectful, callous, self-absorbed, self-worshipping, sex-obsessed, ammoral, unemotional or emotionally disturbed, physically unhealthy (except for the few physical 'elite' of the population, who tout their looks as social currency in an ill way), disconnected, extremely racist and divided, both ethnically and socially, highly consumeristic, vain, product and name-brand obsessed, cold, apathetic, jaded.... jeez, I'm trying to remain accurate in my usage of terms but I think the dictionary will soon run out of words.

In short, to sum up all those adjectives: American culture is highly CORRUPT.

It seems to be, not only on a grand economy-wide scale as most countries are guilty of, but also on the micro social scale, to be an outlet for so many of the uglier human vices and emotions such as greed, avarice, loveless lust, malice, agression, segregation, alienation, ostracism, contempt, vanity, narcissism, etc etc etc...

And Im not talking about some dirty smoky stripper joint in New jersey. I'm talking about your average high school student. I know, I've lived here my whole life. Land of liberty, land of freedom... yes, don't get me wrong, I love this country for its better side and for its as-yet-unfulfilled potential still to come. But it's also the land of Columbine and Virginia Tech. The kids here are not well, and not just the murdering-rampage oddballs, I mean the average one.

American white women, unfortunately, though often blessed by nature with incredible bodies and other talents, seem on a vast-majority basis to consistently represent the very worst of an already compromised society.

By far, my experience trying to talk to them or date them, which seems to be agreed upon time and time again when i talk with other men both local and foreign, is that they are like empty female shells. Oh yes, the anatomy is there, often they are very pretty and incredibly sexy, in fact even though it might sound like an insult I mean it literally, that the best thing American white women have going for them (when they're not obesse, bolemic, out of shape, or otherwise unhealthy) is also precisely the one thing they have no control over: the DNA nature gave them.

But otherwise there is scarcely a single drop of genuine feminine warmth to be found, of compassion, of free-spirited emotion, candor, playfulness, openmindedness, understanding, affection... you know, anything at all one might take for granted from young girls and women all around the world. (although some places are pretty bad too, England, Russia, some places in Eastern Europe and the Middle east, etc)

Most American women will right away look you up and down, judge you, put you into a category of some kind, and take it from there. Its hard to get a free genuine interaction going with them. And by far, the number one thing that they are attracted to, more than physique, more than an emotional connection, more than common interersts... is social status. The women here are cold in that sense, they don't regard you as another human being of equal value and worth at least some consideration. You're only as good as your social standing in their local social hierarchy.

An American woman could meet a great guy out and about, a hypothetically strong, responsible, well educated, pleasant humorous, good-looking, healthy and fun guy (and they are out there) and she might see some good qualities, but overall, because she met him in an equal one-on-one situation in public, the attraction will probably be pretty low. He has no social value yet. Good qualities aplenty, sure, but what's that, there's no currency, no power, no value for her. So maybe they exchange numbers but it doesn't go anywhere because try as he might, for all he can offer, she is largely incapable of being turned on by something so simple as a good man. She needs more than just that.

Now, on the reverse scenario she could hang out with her friends at her local favorite bar, and she will meet a guy there who's hanging out with some of his male friends. This guy could be worth practically nothing to her, in fact he could even be outright harmful for her, someone that will make her unhappy, cause her all sorts of problems in the long run and eventually lead nowhere, etc. Not to say all people hanging out in bars are bad, i like going out for a drink too, but this is just an example. But this guy does have status. He's at her favorite bar, he's got a posse of friends, he's got a little goatee and a leather jacket or some trivial combination of superficial outward accessories/styles. So in her mind, this guy's got something she wants or needs, he's connected, he's cool, he's got influence, at least in the microcosm bar domain they are both in. So her attraction opens up. It has nothing to do with emotions, or the man himself. In fact that guy at the bar, poor sucker, is himself only like a vehicle for her social ambitions, so that when she is talking to her friends or thinking about her life she can claim that the 'cool normal boyfriend' box is checked off.

Yes, the women here are that shallow. No, this is not an exaggeration. Neither is it completely their fault, though, it's just the culture they come from. Ultimately, though, that scapegoating only gets so far. In the end, no matter how unfair, unjust or skewed our circumstance, that's life. We are all personally responsible for how we turn out, and it is everyone's moral obligation to question their surroundings and choose the best path, it doesn't matter if there's a million morons next to you jumping off a cliff, you need to have enough sense not to do the same or else there is no excuse.

As for me, like I said, I'm moving to Brasil. The people over there aren't perfect either, far from it, but without going in depth about Brasil, they are far more human.

The main problem with America is its not a culture based on nature. Brasil is, hence the people are beautiful, more active, healthier, friendlier, warmer, they are more emotionally open, you know, like intelligent mammals should be. American culture on the other hand, is a sort of inbred, self-feeding artificial construct based on mankind itself. Nature is just an auxiliary diversion and locale in the average American mind, far from being relevant in his society and social sphere. therefore, in America, there is no need to be natural, to be authentically human. A man-made synthetic image, a sort of 'best projection' of a real human will do instead, and that's what the women here are chasing, incredibly attractive 'male projections'. Not real men, though.

In Brasil the women, and I don't mean just the hot ones, I mean the average woman, is multiples more attractive, natural healthy and more sensual, with supple curves and all, than your average American white woman... and yet, somehow, magically, they are also infinitely less conceited and difficult to approach, meaning they are genial and have open non-judging dispositions most of the time. Fancy that...

Oh, and before I go, one last myth I want to kill. The myth of the American bad boy being somehow funner and hence more attractive, while the American good man, the honest man, even if he is just as physically strong and adequate all around, is somehow boring, lame, uncool and totally unnatractive.

Well, it's not a myth really, because this is how the two archetypes are perceived and treated by the women here. The myth lies is the warped logic feeding this collective notion.

Yes, there are some 'nice guys' who are just chronically and pathetically wimpy, dying to please suck-ups, and those nerds, wimps and severe introverts need to man up and get their act together. But we're not talking about those guys. We're talking about men, normal men who just happen to be good guys, with values and principles and class, intelligence, integrity, etc, who all in all are real men and aren't going to stoop to being 'the dude with the goatee at the bar' just for the sake of getting laid, at the cost of transforming his own 'self image' in a superficial way. Those men tend to get dogged on bigtime in American society, espeecially by the women. Why? Simply because a good man necessitates the woman being good herself, and this is out of the question. If the good man has character and virtues, obviously the woman he is dating will need to be mindful, considerate, thoughtful herself. Not likely adjectives to describe the typical woman here. And so on. If the good man is emotionally healthy and loves art, his woman will need to more or less be a warm feminine woman with a creative side in order to complement him.

Uhmm, warm? creative? feminine? Let's not get carried away now. America isn't Brasil after all. Or Italy. Or Greece. Or the Phillipines, Or France. Or Canada. Or... hell, just about every country with a culture more mature than 234 radically turbulent years filled with near constant fighting, capitalistic and colonial expansion, and inner turmoil.

So it is him who is seen as 'the bad boy' here that seems to get a free ride socially. Oh, he's cool, oh yeah, he's got a certain naughty mysterious something that those boring goody nice guys just simply dont get. Bullshit. What a huge scam, such a lie. 'Good men' do fine anywhere else. Let's call America's typical 'bad boy' by what he really is in order to begin to debunk this myth: the moron, the shameless buffoon, the guy who's stuck in high school his whole life, the adolescent prick, the irresponsible oaf, the uncaring dickwad, the pretentious city boy, etc etc.

"Ohhhh.... but he's got an edgy little attitude and he's got that haircut like that guy from that TV show with the vampires. And he's stupid and he won't ever say anything insightful or intelligent, and he'll never compliment me but instead only put me down in order to lower my self esteem as a ploy to get me to want to prove myself to him and subsequently drop my panties for him because no other method of showing my worth will suffice.... that's it. Suzy, grab Sarah and Jenny we're heading over to that guy's table, I can't resist."

Yawn.

I think in the mind of American women their social fantasy is like Top Gun, some 80's Tom Cruise movie where the moody brooding military guy playing pool spits a bunch of pithy one liners then offers her a ride home on his bike.

Get real. And yeah, there are plenty of men who act nice and get the girl here in America, but what pretentious, corny, souless depths so many of these phony men succumb to. All the yuppies, valley boys, corporate types, business jerks, church-mice, and otherwise normal suburban Mr. John Johnson types who tailor themselves in every facet exactly according to American women's ideal of the 'perfect male product'.

They fucking deserve each other, the sycophants.

American women who read this, I wish the best for you, or for your daughters and granddaughters if you are incapable of changing, but despite the impression I gave in this post, Im actually not sexist! The men here have got their own problems, and I leave for Brasil really with just two best friends, and some of their family members who are also cool by association. Thats it.

I hope this exhaustive testament (ok, so I wasn't able to keep it short, sorry...) from a writer and observer of the world more clued in to reality than not, will provide whoever comes across it some sense of a definitive, recalcitrant and undeniable proof of the sad turn modern America has taken.

American white women, I will not miss you, and neither will the world, when one day America finally changes and your corrupted personalities and mentalities so prevalent today are relegated to a history and good riddance. You are for the most part both collectively and individually an insult to nature and all other good women all around the world, who ironically have so much less opportunity and material security than you do and yet manage to be somehow so much more wholesome and loving than you, even in the midsts of abject poverty!

One last note- there are good American women out there, few though they are, and if you are one of them or if you are married to one or know any, then I'm sorry if you or they felt insulted by the truth of my post, but the goodness of a few cannot make up for the ignorant, primitive squalor of the many. Besides, you're not all that pure. I know your secret... You may be good, and gorgeous, but also feminine and warm and all that goodness... but you're not stupid. At some level you're aware of how good you are, how rare you are, how much guys have always known the same thing when they met you and clammored to get with you... and in the end, inescapably, you have most likely developed a similar attitude of 'untouchable preciousness'. Your value. Your worth. You may be good, we already stated this, but I know it is there. It is because you're American, and it's the culture you come from, you can't help it. Still, kudos to you, at least you made it way more intact than the others.

I had to come back and edit this just to add this in: the ultimate way to try to debunk and discredit someone's statements is to call them bitter, negative, biased, etc. Dont even try it. I'm not bitter, I already told you, I had my share of girlfriends here and Im currently getting laid quite frequently and splendidly. I'm a happy guy. And no, I'm not negative, that is one of the greatest slanders good journalists, reporters and social commentators have always historically had to deal with. READ MY CYBER LIPS: SOMEONE WHO TALKS ABOUT, WRITES OR OTHERWISE REPORTS ON NEGATIVE ISSUES AND EVENTS ARE NOT NECESSARILY THEMSELVES "NEGATIVE"! I really had to capitalize that one, i hate hearing it.

Sorry, there's nothing you can say to discredit me personally. What I wrote it about is simply the truth. Deal with it. Yes, people can become corrupted. Humans, especially women, because of their sensitivity (which when cultivated properly does indeed make them superior, wiser beings, I'll be the first to admit) are quite vulnerable to corruption. Sorry, I know, I too wish humans had been designed more resilient too. Those are the ropes, I didn't design them.

[CharleyHorse]

Haha I'm still only a beginner in this game and that post pretty much sums up all of my frustrations with the girls i see around college. I also agree that men are partially to blame for the poor condition of women here because there are so many weak minded guys out there that don't work for what they want and have no sense of value or identity. There is such a disproportionate amount of betas in the states because our generation was raised to believe that good things would be handed to us in life effortlessly. I'm 18 and a part of that generation but I already know the importance of earning what you get from life from my battle with my weight. After losing 80 lbs., retaining a healthy weight and unleashing my inner extrovert after years of hiding from social situations I feel like I can do anything because I took care of my inner demons and I know 99.9% of kids my age in america are clueless about dealing with the real obstacles in life. Even some of my best high school friends barely congratulated me because they were so oblivious to how much effort it took to handle dramatic lifestyle changes like that.

The confidence I get from that only assures me that years from now when my peers and I are out in the real world I'll be banging women because I worked at it while they are stuck at square one wondering where all the easy college girls went. They'll be miserable corporate monkeys with the expensive car and the mortgage amassing debt, believing that the only enjoyable years of their lives have passed and the good times will have only just begun for me.