[thegmanifesto]

(03-05-2012 02:12 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

F*ck number ratings; she's "swoopable"

Yeah that is basically my rating scale:

1. "swoopable"
2. "non-swoopable"

[Gmac]

(03-05-2012 01:57 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

The face, the red hair, stubby legs, and the paleness in this pic turn me off. I'd bang her, but yeah she's a 5 or 5.5 for me.

[Roosh]

This is the dude that fucked her in the ass (Chris Pine):



A part of me was holding out that he was swarthy with a beard and a slightly Turkish face.

[assman]

No worries about reputation damage. When this dude breaks up with her, some rich and famous beta will swoop in and lick her swollen asshole anytime she wants, while not being allowed to fuck it.

I remember after Reggie Bush dumped Kim Kardashian, I thought, who is gonna take this ho seriously after everything, including that sex tape, and along came that clown Kris Humphries, who debased himself in front of the entire nation.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-05-2012 05:43 PM)assman Wrote:  

No worries about reputation damage. When this dude breaks up with her, some rich and famous beta will swoop in and lick her swollen asshole anytime she wants, while not being allowed to fuck it.

I remember after Reggie Bush dumped Kim Kardashian, I thought, who is gonna take this ho seriously after everything, including that sex tape, and along came that clown Kris Humphries, who debased himself in front of the entire nation.

Of course.

Think about how many famous cats date and marry p0rnstars

Rule #1 of humanity: If a girl is hot, there will be suitors.

[Chad Daring]

Somewhat off topic, what nationality is Olivia Munn?

[Excelsior]

(03-05-2012 06:03 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

Somewhat off topic, what nationality is Olivia Munn?

Eurasian (Chinese mother, German-Irish American father). Her mother, though ethnically Chinese, was raised in Vietnam, which has always had a sizable Chinese minority.

(03-05-2012 04:34 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:  

Oh look, a slightly portly girl with an above average face and killer tits. Nice nips and I'm glad she doesn't have a spider-web areola-spread, but answer me honestly, is she really anything other than a slightly-better-than average girl with big tits? She's like the fifth hottest girl on that show.

Hold on now, mate, let's not shoot the messenger. She isn't a 10 to me either-I'm simply delivering the photos.

For the record, my ratings:

Hendricks: 7.5. I do love her waist to hip ratio, and that gives her a boost in my eyes. Not a huge boob guy, though I concede they're quite nice. She looks very good for her age (36).

Munn: 8.5. Very attractive girl. It is worth noting that I have had a thing for Asian women since I was old enough to have a thing for any women, and I mean that quite literally. Its not a mere fever or a superficial fetish-I'm just genuinely drawn, always have been. First girl I ever seriously got into was of a similar mix to Munn, actually (Eurasian-polish and chinese, specifically) so she's definitely my type. In fact, I might even be overrating her a bit for this reason.

While I'm at it, might as well post the rest of Munn's photos:

[Basil Ransom]

(03-05-2012 05:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Of course.

Think about how many famous cats date and marry p0rnstars

This is something I don't get (and have remarked upon before) - if you're a celebrity, why not leverage that into dating a hot 20 year old nobody, instead of some other washed up celeb. Because you're dying to make it into Us Weekly?

[Tuthmosis]

This is some seriously eye-opening shit.

(Note: I've noticed Olivia Munn is a reverse butterface. She's all face--admittedly hot--but an unimpressive body. She has virtually no ass.)

I admit that I've gone through lazy-player™ phases where I didn't put it down the way I should. Some time last year, for instance--as the product of some chronic exhaustion and busy-ness--I half-assed a new bang (an SNL, actually). I could tell that the girl was disappointed afterward. But I confess that for much of my early years, even during healthy times, I was a medium-to-gentle fucker. (Was this beta?)

Lately, however, I've been putting it down like a champ, dropping the hammer on bitches relentlessly. The results have been very interesting. Girls have become a lot more insistent on seeking me out for additional bangs. They display a lot more DTF signs, such as a shameless willingness to come over to the house very late and on super-short notice. They bring up sex over text.

There are other behaviors too. After tossing this girl around during a spirited session--which including some light choking--this chick was all excited at the prospect of her parents seeing marks on her neck. She claimed to bruise easily. Another girl, this prudish, tough-nut-to-crack said I was "sexually aggressive." When I asked what she meant, she said that I was aggressive in pursuing sex and during the act. "You grab my wrists and pin me down." But, she was quick to add, "But I really liked it. You do it just right." That really drove the point home.

Now there's this OP story. I'm 100 percent convinced: if you're gentle-fucking girls, you're not tickling these deep-seeded appetites.

[Nonpareil]

(03-05-2012 06:10 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 06:03 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

Somewhat off topic, what nationality is Olivia Munn?

Eurasian (Chinese mother, German-Irish American father). Her mother, though ethnically Chinese, was raised in Vietnam, which has always had a sizable Chinese minority.

(03-05-2012 04:34 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:  

Oh look, a slightly portly girl with an above average face and killer tits. Nice nips and I'm glad she doesn't have a spider-web areola-spread, but answer me honestly, is she really anything other than a slightly-better-than average girl with big tits? She's like the fifth hottest girl on that show.

Hold on now, mate, let's not shoot the messenger. She isn't a 10 to me either-I'm simply delivering the photos.

For the record, my ratings:

Hendricks: 7.5. I do love her waist to hip ratio, and that gives her a boost in my eyes. Not a huge boob guy, though I concede they're quite nice. She looks very good for her age (36).

Munn: 8.5. Very attractive girl. It is worth noting that I have had a thing for Asian women since I was old enough to have a thing for any women, and I mean that quite literally. Its not a mere fever or a superficial fetish-I'm just genuinely drawn, always have been. First girl I ever seriously got into was of a similar mix to Munn, actually (Eurasian-polish and chinese, specifically) so she's definitely my type. In fact, I might even be overrating her a bit for this reason.

I won't deny that Hendricks looks good for her age, or that they do a good job dolling her up for Mad Men, but I always found it odd that she gets most of the love of the Mad Men girls; would you honestly call her hotter than January Jones, Peyton List, Jessica Pare or Alison Brie? All those girls are at least 8's (and Brie and List push into the high 9's). As far as I'm concerned Hendricks is duking it out with Elisabeth Moss and her fivehead and pug face at the bottom of the Mad Men depth chart.

My theory? She's 'curvy' (real curvy, not fat curvy) and fatties have latched on to her as an image spokesperson, which is why she's seen her fame explode.

Munn doesn't do shit for me; in addition to being able to not act worth a fuck, I never did dig her. I also have a theory on why she's so loved; she used to host on G4, a videogame channel, so the sackless herbs and gamer omegas looked at her as a girl that they could hang out with and play games with (failing to realize that she's out there getting buttfucked by Captain Kirk...like any woman with a choice, she'll side with the handsome dude with fame). It's the same as hipster guys and Zooey Deschanel.

I wasn't shooting you or anyone who likes her down; she's skinny and once you get high enough on the scale tastes are largely subjective. I'd certainly fuck her, but I never did jump onboard with the appeal.

(03-05-2012 06:12 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 05:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Of course.

Think about how many famous cats date and marry p0rnstars

This is something I don't get (and have remarked upon before) - if you're a celebrity, why not leverage that into dating a hot 20 year old nobody, instead of some other washed up celeb. Because you're dying to make it into Us Weekly?

It's something I fail to grasp either, were I a famous actor I'd be pipelining the hottest civilian girls in every town in the world, but I've heard that famous people have trouble relating to civilians so they mostly spend time with other famous people.

It sounds so hard, having all that disposable income, easy access to sex with whoever you want and getting comped everywhere you go...

[Diomedes]

(03-05-2012 06:12 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 05:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Of course.

Think about how many famous cats date and marry p0rnstars

This is something I don't get (and have remarked upon before) - if you're a celebrity, why not leverage that into dating a hot 20 year old nobody, instead of some other washed up celeb. Because you're dying to make it into Us Weekly?

You're discounting the amount of men who lose their heads and marry-up the first girl whose tongue can take them to Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and back.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-05-2012 01:02 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

This is just more substantiation for what I've said before about American women (on average) and the type of man you need to learn to be in order to succeed with them.

(02-06-2012 06:15 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

What young guys need to remember is that with the average American woman, you must devolve, and regress to a more primal state of being (read: become a caveman). There is no room for calm, measured approaches, no room for chivalry, no room for anything remotely gentlemanly or intellectual, and no time to wait a few dates for sex. Throw ALL of that out the window, or prepare for involuntary celibacy.

Lots of young guys (witness the predominance of the "nice guy" phenomenon these days) are confused simply because they are misinterpreting what their female peers actually want. They've been raised to believe that only their utmost respect, kindness, and chivalry will count. They've been raised to believe that their women are sweet, demure angels who deserve nothing but such gentlemanly treatment (in and out of bed).

The reason they're all getting rejected and/or dumped so often is because most women do not actually want any of that. They don't value your respect, they do not want your kindness/chivalry, and they most certainly are not the sweet, demure angels men imagine. They desire the opposite of what these guys probably offer: they want neanderthals (or, at the very least, men who know how to act like neanderthals).

If you are not a neanderthal and/or have trouble behaving like one or conceiving the possibility of becoming one, then you will struggle with American women until you figure out how to devolve (hint: alcohol, in moderation, is your friend). This is the biggest challenge for young guys to overcome in taking the red pill, because it goes against everything our civilization teaches us (unless you're from parts of the inner city/urban community-they seem to naturally understand all of this).
Guys often need to fundamentally re-think and reverse everything they know about interacting with the opposite sex. This is why 80-90% of men are easily duped betas and will remain so-this is extremely difficult to do.

Dating here is a race to the bottom-first one to hit the ground (and stay there) wins.
If you don't like this, get on a plane. So long as you live here, there will be no escape from this reality.

Athlone, do you find this to be true among ALL American women? What has been your experience in the Ivy League? Do you think a distinction can be made between ordinary, for lack of a better term, American women and those who occupy higher status positions in society? By that, I don't mean modeling, but lawyer, corporate professional, doctor, etc? On the east coast, you find attractive girls who happen to be in these high-powered fields and may be turned away by the primitive alpha male as they seek to acquire those dimensions, if they don't possess them already, for themselves. It can often be hit or miss and I don't think there's a holistic tried-and-true approach for these types of women. I also think they tend to appreciate when there's a display of intellect from a man albeit in a way that supports their pov rather than challenges it. Very nuanced game required for these kind of women that you find particularly in cities like NYC and DC.

[Excelsior]

(03-05-2012 07:19 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Athlone, do you find this to be true among ALL American women?

I think exceptions exist to every rule. There are American women out there who are nothing like I've said.
I contend that they're just a small minority is all.

Quote:

What has been your experience in the Ivy League?

There isn't as much of a difference as you'd expect. Girls here still require some significant devolution to be properly pursued in most cases. Shy "good girl" types (the ones who don't show a strong preference for neanderthal game) are around, and there are probably a slightly larger portion of them here than in the general population. That said, they're still very much a minority. Few will get very far here running sober, intellectual game and taking girls to dinner or being otherwise respectful-there's no room for that.

This, I theorize, is one reason binge drinking is so big on my campus-guys know this, and are racing to the bottom accordingly. Drunk fratstar beats the laid back sober guy anyday of the week when it comes to women here. The rarity of relationships here also stems from this.

Granted, there are some unique racial twists that can alter this formula a bit by changing the effectiveness of neanderthal game here (ex: black men need to follow a completely different strategy), but that's a whole new long story. For the average white or asian dude pursuing girls here: cocky, somewhat agressive (but not blackout sloppy) drunkard > sober "good-guy". That's consensus.

Quote:

Do you think a distinction can be made between ordinary, for lack of a better term, American women and those who occupy higher status positions in society? By that, I don't mean modeling, but lawyer, corporate professional, doctor, etc?

Actually, judging from what I hear about female lawyers in places like DC and NY, they can be some of the freakiest carousel riders out there. I think Roissy/Heartiste has touched on this topic many times. In fact, smarter women may be more likely to ride the carousel and respond to this kind of base-level game.

It makes sense, really. Think about the places where the darker truths of game we talk about here, at Heartiste's and in other parts of the manosphere are practiced the most: DC, New York City, Boston and Toronto, as well as on most major college campuses and other eastern urban centers.

These just so happen to be the places with the largest critical masses of educated women in the nation.

Education and wealth seem to create more fertile environments for casual sex (and the caveman game that comes with it), not the reverse. The women least likely to engage in all of this are often less educated, less urban, and more traditional/religious.

Granted, I'm 20 and have less experience with these women than you do. Either way, the evidence doesn't seem to show much of a distinction in favor of them. If anything, they may be the worst offenders.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(03-05-2012 08:01 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Granted, there are some unique racial twists that can alter this formula a bit by changing the effectiveness of neanderthal game here (ex: black men need to follow a completely different strategy), but that's a whole new long story.

That's precisely what I was getting at. I know you're black and seeing you advocate Neanderthal game was kind of a red flag. I can't imagine that working out too well for a brother in Ivy League type of environments. That's what I wanted you to elaborate on.

I think you can drop your opinion on that without compromising the integrity of this thread. Or, if you prefer, PM me.

[Veloce]

I think I was 25 or 26 when I got with my first 'freak', this Korean girl that basically wanted me to rape her. It got to the point where it was a huge turnoff with her but I started roughing girls up regularly after that and I've only had maybe one object. I've got texts that would put this Munn girl's texts to shame in sheer dirtiness. Over the years I've done things to girls thinking they'd definitely never want to see me again, I mean really pushing the limits, and in 98% in cases they've come back wanting more and more.

[mikeymike]

(03-05-2012 06:47 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

This is some seriously eye-opening shit.

(Note: I've noticed Olivia Munn is a reverse butterface. She's all face--admittedly hot--but an unimpressive body. She has virtually no ass.)

Funny I see her the opposite, the body isnt the best ive ever seen by any means but shes got a very good body, im partial to the little ass, the face by contrast is nothing special by hollywood standards. Youd see that face combing the local mall

[Timoteo]

(03-05-2012 08:42 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 06:47 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

This is some seriously eye-opening shit.

(Note: I've noticed Olivia Munn is a reverse butterface. She's all face--admittedly hot--but an unimpressive body. She has virtually no ass.)

Funny I see her the opposite, the body isnt the best ive ever seen by any means but shes got a very good body, im partial to the little ass, the face by contrast is nothing special by hollywood standards. Youd see that face combing the local mall

I prefer chicks that have a little more ass. It isn't about size per se, but shape. Some roundness. I think her face is just fine. It's real. I don't even mind freckles. I like uniqueness, or something unusual in a face. I like Christina Hendricks BECAUSE she's a redhead, but isn't ugly. The contrast of my chocolate dick sliding between those alabaster cheeks would be awesome, or between those massive titties. I'm not even a breast man, but I gotta show respect to hers.

[thegmanifesto]

So, the red head girl is too fat for everyone.

And the brunette is too skinny.

Both "5's".

And people think my stories are amazing. Hell, I get "junior player status" on this forum.

Which nightclubs are you guys hanging out at where half the girls are hotter than these?

Which nights are best?

Bust out a Sheet.

Break it down!

[mikeymike]

(03-05-2012 08:53 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 08:42 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

(03-05-2012 06:47 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

This is some seriously eye-opening shit.

(Note: I've noticed Olivia Munn is a reverse butterface. She's all face--admittedly hot--but an unimpressive body. She has virtually no ass.)

Funny I see her the opposite, the body isnt the best ive ever seen by any means but shes got a very good body, im partial to the little ass, the face by contrast is nothing special by hollywood standards. Youd see that face combing the local mall

I prefer chicks that have a little more ass. It isn't about size per se, but shape. Some roundness. I think her face is just fine. It's real. I don't even mind freckles. I like uniqueness, or something unusual in a face. I like Christina Hendricks BECAUSE she's a redhead, but isn't ugly. The contrast of my chocolate dick sliding between those alabaster cheeks would be awesome, or between those massive titties. I'm not even a breast man, but I gotta show respect to hers.

I didnt say the face was bad, Id bang her up the ass no question but I dont think theres anything super special about it either. That said I think anyone calling either of these girls a 5 is insane. Hendricks I just dig, little meatier than I go for usually but she pulls it off. im with ya tim, something about that whitest of the white skin does it for me too.

[Timoteo]

(03-05-2012 09:00 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

So, the red head girl is too fat for everyone.

And the brunette is too skinny.

Both "5's".

And people think my stories are amazing. Hell, I get "junior player status" on this forum.

Which nightclubs are you guys hanging out at where half the girls are hotter than these?

Which nights are best?

Bust out a Sheet.

Break it down!

These are just like the "who's better" sports arguments. I've always found that I don't have a strict "type" per se. I would say that I only have a preference for ethnic women, but I find all shapes, sizes and colors attractive. I don't like extremes (super thin or sloppy fat), but there's all kinds of shit in-between that can get me hard. But Munn and Hendricks can get some from me, and I'd be equally happy as long as both know how to fuck, and don't just lay there and take it. This supposed perfection so many guys seem to seek is pretty elusive in my book.

[Hotwheels]

(03-05-2012 09:00 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

So, the red head girl is too fat for everyone.

I get a kick out of this too. A lot of guys must live in areas where dimes are roaming in packs or something, paying guys to fuck them.

Personally, I find that 36 y/o redhead hot as hell. Great, curvy bod that beats the hell out of a rack of bones. She certainly isn't fat.

Not into fat asses like a lot here but I do like some birthing hips and a nice rack. That turns my crank.

[Excelsior]

(03-05-2012 08:15 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

That's precisely what I was getting at. I know you're black and seeing you advocate Neanderthal game was kind of a red flag. I can't imagine that working out too well for a brother in Ivy League type of environments. That's what I wanted you to elaborate on.

I think you can drop your opinion on that without compromising the integrity of this thread. Or, if you prefer, PM me.

Its cool, no risk in writing it out here.

The key difference with black guys (and, depending on place of origin, many hispanic guys) here is this: for them, social circle game is the end all and be all, their best option. The other key difference for them is that there are no real good options here, as even the best case scenario will usually return low yield.

Girls here are scared shitless of black guys. Some of the things I've seen (girls blatantly crossing the streets to avoid me, regularly double clutching upon catching sight of me, apologizing to me for even the slightest and most seemingly unoffensive things, etc) are absurd. This is tough, because it means the girls are uncomfortable around you from the get-go. Girls who aren't comfortable around obviously can't get intimate with you very easily. You're fighting uphill all the way.

Run caveman game, and you'll scare them away faster. I know-I've done it. You can't play by the same rules as other guys. You also can't drink as much.

By using social circles and getting pre-approved, you lessen some of their fear and give yourself a better shot, the best shot you will be able to get here. You've got to make a big investment to get this return, but it is your best option.

The catch? That shot is still not very good. I've known all Ivy linebackers in fraternities who, despite four years of consistent effort and the maintenance of much respect among their peers, could never get a white or asian girl here. I've known defensive backs who, despite being well known columnists and DJs on campus, still don't do very well on a regular basis when it comes to notches or even getting a girlfriend. I could go on with these examples-this is just one of those places where getting to white/asian girls (read: 90% of the populace) as a black/afro-hispanic dude is just not done a lot. They're just not receptive. Exceptions exist and I have known them personally, but they only serve to prove the rule.

Caveman works well for me everywhere else, though-all I need is a steady buzz (3-5 shots of vodka will do it), and I'm set, no problems. It is only here on campus that results are not forthcoming-caveman game fails, calm "good guy" game fails and social circle game, the best option, brings tiny yields if any. Just gotta chalk that up to the nature of the place-it is what it is.

Disclaimer: My Ivy may be worse than others in this regard. They're not all created equal.

[Nonpareil]

(03-05-2012 09:00 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

So, the red head girl is too fat for everyone.

And the brunette is too skinny.

Both "5's".

And people think my stories are amazing. Hell, I get "junior player status" on this forum.

Which nightclubs are you guys hanging out at where half the girls are hotter than these?

Which nights are best?

Bust out a Sheet.

Break it down!

I'll stand by my 7.5 for Munn and my 6-7 for Hendricks, and Hendricks goes up a full point by virtue of her tits and the red hair. I can't feasibly give a girl who rolls out of bed looking like this more than a 6.5; compare that picture to her 7.5-ranking alter ego; I'm all for a bit of makeup, every girl looks better with some of it, but that's just artificial. Just a quick question for you G...Was this Beta?

Not that Munn isn't attractive, she is, but I just don't get the widespread appeal...well I get it; attractive chick who likes video games, and the betas froth at the mouth any time an attractive chick reveals that she has some nerdy leanings; I mean seriously, somewhere, some nerd just jizzed in his pants, but it's just not for me. Being real, the chick that replaced her, Candace Bailey? Now that is a 9...

You're based out of South Beach (or is it Southern California?), you just spent time in Montreal and you're a frequent visitor to Spain; you know what's what. Both are eminently swoopable but neither of them really do it for me.

[Gmac]

As out of place as this post feels in this thread, there was a call for an ivy league post earlier...

There really are two types of "ivy league" professional types, and I had an opportunity to bang both of them during my accelerated OKCupid escapades last year. I don't know about black dudes in ivy league environments, but here's the skinny in my experience as a young white guy.

On one hand, you've got your "I'm openly obsessed with my career and I'm only here to keep up appearances" prudes. Once I've determined a girl is this type and isn't DTF, I bail faster than a fat kid dives on cake. You can quickly identify these girls if you have any understanding of human psychology. They're the ones who bail on their best friends to go study, and then they actually go to the library for 5 days straight.

On the other end, you've got ripe, sexually frustrated, career-focused whores in training who still know how to get down but just want some good dick before they sell their souls to what they think is a bright future in law/medicine/corporate environments.

The truth is this second type of woman creams herself for a ballsy guy who has all the angles covered. By that, I mean you need a balance of manliness/machismo (lacking today in American society) and experience. Whether or not it's genuine is up to you, but be ready to drop a lot of not so covert hints (job, worldly experience, practical know-how, etc.). Unless you're good looking and hilarious or have a combination of very appealing traits, game is a necessity. These chicks expect you to know how to fix a flat and how to pair wine.

You can't go full on caveman and you can't be a sissified beta. That said, it all depends on where you are meeting these women. If it's a high end bar or club on a random weekend, regular suave cocky/funny works just fine so long as you escalate and push for sex. It doesn't have to be completely authentic, but you do need a certain level of class to pull these chicks off. If... you can stomach their incessant and non-stop need to validate their credentials and qualifications as a woman. The key here is making it clear you don't give a fuck about her career... a no brainer if you have any understanding of game.

A seasoned player will cleverly knock these girls down a peg at every turn.
Most guys make the mistake of over-validating themselves (I've seen black guys do this too).
Total newbies tend to freeze or worse, get anxious, demoralized, intimidated, and uncomfortable.

The more vague you are with these girls the better. Make her think you're a fucking rockstar by guiding the hamster.

If it's a date, pushing for sex to early blows your chances. Planning and picking out a classy venue is key. Transition to something more low key and closer to home before trying to seal the deal. Expect her to attempt to pay half. Let her. Because you were going to by yourself anyway, invite her back for a nightcap or glass of "vino." Call a cab. Bang.

[Hencredible Casanova]

I only have experience with the "black Ivy League" which is not too dissimilar from the typical black professional experience, if not identical. I really make no distinction with black girls in the Ivy League compared to other well-educated black girls. All of my male friends in the Ivy League are also black, and none of them have any experience with the white girls on their campus. They joined black fraternities and pretty much exclusively dated black girls.

I even dated, almost married, a black Ivy League-educated lawyer who had virtually no black friends from law school or undergrad. It's astonishing how that's the case for many blacks I know in the Ivy League. But segregation is found there as well.

That's why I was interested in getting Athlone's opinion. It appears his experience conforms with that of my friends.