[solo]

How much time does one need to become fluent in Portuguese if one is already fluent in Spanish? I have my eyes set on Brazil for sometime during the latter half of 2012, but I don't know how long I should plan for.

I would study 2-4 hours per day (on my own) living in Brazil, exluding the time I will practice it when approaching/gaming girls, watching tv, listening to music etc. I've heard and read different takes on this so I wanted to ask here, all input is welcome but especially from those who have done it themselfes.

As for the definition of fluency, I believe there are three levels of command of a foreign language: basic, intermediate and fluent (the latter meaning that you can understand everything and make yourself understood at least 95% of the time - speaking, reading, writing and listening - but still somewhat short of the level of command a native has).

These three levels can be complimented by the CEFR levels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Euro..._Languages

where basic/beginner would be A1 and A2 (advanced basic), intermediate B1 and B2 and fluent C1 and C2.

[MiXX]

I became fluent in Portuguese after 2.5 years as a native spanish speaker:

1. I dated a Brazilian girls who spoke ZERO, AND I MEAN NADA of English or Spanish. We taught each other how to say "hello, how are you?" in our languages. Can you imagine our very first phone call? This LTR lasted about 8 months, but damn the sex was fantastic!!

2. I lived in Brazil for 2 years!

So, if you deep-dive into the language, you will be fluent in about 2.5 years. The time it takes a baby to learn to speak any language. I learned the same way. I did not bother with grammar or writing, I only learned to speak it, and then I started to learn to write it after I knew what I saying. Juts like a baby.

You can start off with Portuguesepod101.com - I highly recommend them.

Mixx

[Caramel Communist]

to learn basic enough Portuguese to function
5 months to a year

to learn slang and regional dialects and understand everything around you

probably 1 year to 2 years and you would need immerse yourself daily in conversation with locals...


Spanish definitely helped me learn portuguese....

[Mr.GM]

(02-03-2012 10:38 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

I became fluent in Portuguese after 2.5 years as a native spanish speaker:

1. I dated a Brazilian girls who spoke ZERO, AND I MEAN NADA of English or Spanish. We taught each other how to say "hello, how are you?" in our languages. Can you imagine our very first phone call? This LTR lasted about 8 months, but damn the sex was fantastic!!

2. I lived in Brazil for 2 years!

So, if you deep-dive into the language, you will be fluent in about 2.5 years. The time it takes a baby to learn to speak any language. I learned the same way. I did not bother with grammar or writing, I only learned to speak it, and then I started to learn to write it after I knew what I saying. Juts like a baby.

You can start off with Portuguesepod101.com - I highly recommend them.

Mixx

Mixx where in Brazil do you lived ? How long ago?

[MiXX]

(02-03-2012 12:38 PM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

(02-03-2012 10:38 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

I became fluent in Portuguese after 2.5 years as a native spanish speaker:

1. I dated a Brazilian girls who spoke ZERO, AND I MEAN NADA of English or Spanish. We taught each other how to say "hello, how are you?" in our languages. Can you imagine our very first phone call? This LTR lasted about 8 months, but damn the sex was fantastic!!

2. I lived in Brazil for 2 years!

So, if you deep-dive into the language, you will be fluent in about 2.5 years. The time it takes a baby to learn to speak any language. I learned the same way. I did not bother with grammar or writing, I only learned to speak it, and then I started to learn to write it after I knew what I saying. Juts like a baby.

You can start off with Portuguesepod101.com - I highly recommend them.

Mixx

Mixx where in Brazil do you lived ? How long ago?

Year 2002-2005: Brasilia, Cuiaba, and Jardim in Sampa about 4 blocks from hotel "Unique".

[The_CEO]

(02-03-2012 10:33 AM)solo Wrote:  

How much time does one need to become fluent in Portuguese if one is already fluent in Spanish? I have my eyes set on Brazil for sometime during the latter half of 2012, but I don't know how long I should plan for.

I would study 2-4 hours per day (on my own) living in Brazil, exluding the time I will practice it when approaching/gaming girls, watching tv, listening to music etc. I've heard and read different takes on this so I wanted to ask here, all input is welcome but especially from those who have done it themselfes.

As for the definition of fluency, I believe there are three levels of command of a foreign language: basic, intermediate and fluent (the latter meaning that you can understand everything and make yourself understood at least 95% of the time - speaking, reading, writing and listening - but still somewhat short of the level of command a native has).

These three levels can be complimented by the CEFR levels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Euro..._Languages

where basic/beginner would be A1 and A2 (advanced basic), intermediate B1 and B2 and fluent C1 and C2.

I think you could learn very fast if you're putting the time in.
Check this out. He claims 3 months if you already know Spanish:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/l...guese.html

Keep in mind that 70% of Spanish/Portuguese vocab are "cognates", meaning basically the same. Brazilian Portuguese is basically spanish with a weird pronunciation. Once you learn the rules for converting over verbs and some vocab you'll be at least half way there.

If you're putting in 2-4 hours daily on the ground, immersed in it, i think in 3-6mos you'd be doing great

[sine wave killer]

After you get some footing, you can use websites like this

http://www.portuguese-flashcards.com/

I actually been using the one for German for a few years now. I didn't opt into the pay plans because once you get good at having conversations you'll understand the context the words are used in.

[Tigre]

Around 12 months to be at 95% fluency level. That is assuming you actually study 2 to 4 hours a day.

You can expect to hit intermediate extremely quickly, though. After the first few weeks you should be completely operational, able to hold a continuous one on one conversation. Just that you'll have to get words explained to you as you go, and you'll be making mistakes in expression.

Most of the difficulty in Brazilian Portuguese is its slang and locally introduced words and idioms. You'll find street Portuguese takes more time to learn than literary Portuguese.

[solo]

(02-03-2012 12:50 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

I think you could learn very fast if you're putting the time in.
Check this out. He claims 3 months if you already know Spanish:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/l...guese.html

Keep in mind that 70% of Spanish/Portuguese vocab are "cognates", meaning basically the same. Brazilian Portuguese is basically spanish with a weird pronunciation. Once you learn the rules for converting over verbs and some vocab you'll be at least half way there.

If you're putting in 2-4 hours daily on the ground, immersed in it, i think in 3-6mos you'd be doing great

Thanks everyone.

I used to think 3 months as well based on that. But then someone told me 7 months so now I'm thinking its probably more (at least 3-6 like you say). However, I'm sure that if you have a couple of years you can improve further. I regard myself as being fluent in Spanish and even though I'm better than the vast majority of other gringos, I'm sure there are still some areas where I could improve.

For people wondering how long it takes to become fluent in Spanish, I managed it after 5 months in Argentina living with an Argentinian family (but I already had an advanced beginner level when I got there).

[Entropy4]

I'm highly conversational in Spanish (not quite fluent), and I've been here in Brazil studying Portuguese for a week now. Definitely picking it up very quickly. The vocabulary is very easy, the grammar is mostly the same. The hard part is all of the idioms and short versions of words. Also, the pronunciation is pretty brutal if you're not used to it.

It's been a week and I can already say most basic sentences and make myself understood in basic situations. My guess is that within a month you can be conversational enough to get by in most situations. Three months and you should be pretty solid.

[The_CEO]

(02-03-2012 01:44 PM)solo Wrote:  

(02-03-2012 12:50 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

I think you could learn very fast if you're putting the time in.
Check this out. He claims 3 months if you already know Spanish:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/l...guese.html

Keep in mind that 70% of Spanish/Portuguese vocab are "cognates", meaning basically the same. Brazilian Portuguese is basically spanish with a weird pronunciation. Once you learn the rules for converting over verbs and some vocab you'll be at least half way there.

If you're putting in 2-4 hours daily on the ground, immersed in it, i think in 3-6mos you'd be doing great

Thanks everyone.

I used to think 3 months as well based on that. But then someone told me 7 months so now I'm thinking its probably more (at least 3-6 like you say). However, I'm sure that if you have a couple of years you can improve further. I regard myself as being fluent in Spanish and even though I'm better than the vast majority of other gringos, I'm sure there are still some areas where I could improve.

For people wondering how long it takes to become fluent in Spanish, I managed it after 5 months in Argentina living with an Argentinian family (but I already had an advanced beginner level when I got there).

There are even books and other learning resources designed to teach Portuguese to speakers of Spanish. It takes advantage of what you already know.

[PrimeTime]

(02-03-2012 03:44 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

I'm highly conversational in Spanish (not quite fluent), and I've been here in Brazil studying Portuguese for a week now. Definitely picking it up very quickly. The vocabulary is very easy, the grammar is mostly the same. The hard part is all of the idioms and short versions of words. Also, the pronunciation is pretty brutal if you're not used to it.

It's been a week and I can already say most basic sentences and make myself understood in basic situations. My guess is that within a month you can be conversational enough to get by in most situations. Three months and you should be pretty solid.

How did you learn to be conversation in spanish?

[Entropy4]

Quote:

How did you learn to be conversation in spanish?

Living in Argentina. Dating Spanish-speaking girls. About a month's worth of tutoring. Traveling to a dozen different Spanish-speaking countries.

I wouldn't call myself fluent, as it still requires some effort. But I can handle pretty much any conversation with any amount of people now.

[moso]

I am not fluent in Brazilian portuguese, but I am an intermediate-advanced to advanced speaker of spanish language depending upon your definition of fluent. I want to share some resources that are helping me learn portuguese.

NOTE:
a. If you are able to stop speaking your native language while immersed in the foreign language ( In country ) it will help you immensely.
b. I learn new vocabulary much more efficiently by seeing or seeing and hearing it versus hearing new words.

1. lingq com provides member contributed lessons that contain mp3 recordings, Brazilian portuguese text, and english or spanish translations. This web site provides many other languages as well. One of the best features is the creation of flash cards which contain audio and are emailed to you each day. I have one person from Sao Paulo that I exchange conversation with and skype exchanges are promoted on the lingq platform. You can use the free version, the $10 USD version, $39, and $79. The $10 USD version would probably be a good choice.

2. Rosetta stone is expensive, but it is a good way to quickly get started and learn pronounciation. You definitely would not want to rely on Rosetta stone if you want to adquire the most useful sentences and phrases, but the software helps you quickly realize progress.

3. I learned spanish vocabulary much much faster by seeing it and writing it as opposed to learning vocabulary through speech. As soon as I learned new words by reading them, I would notice these words. I would also be able to quickly recall the new vocabulary and use these new words in conversation.

4. After I gain some proficiency in the language, I begin to watch internet television news and listen to internet radio Talk-News stations.
a. Wikipedia has a list of television stations in the article titled "List of local television stations in South America" I use these to listen to different spanish language dialects as well as portuguese.
b. Programs for listening to internet radio Talk-News like Radiosure for Windows, TuneIn Radio for android mobile telephones. You are able to listen to different regions such as Porto Alegre. There are two Talk-News stations and one Talk-Sports station.

5. There are a series of youtube videos by user jhallthird that allow you to see two different series of Brazilian portuguese videos that seem very practical. semantica - portuguese com

[Pilgrim37]

Semantica have two very good series following a Gringo to Rio...it's scripted well with different situations.


I've downloaded the 1st Series..pretty cheap.
Definitely got me started but I agree that being in the country and refusing to speak anything but the language you want to learn is the best way,like Benny advises in http://www.fluentin3months.com

[chochemonger1]

If you are fluent in spanish and with 1 or 2 months studying portuguese, before going to Brazil, in 3 months you will be at an intermediate level. With that you will be at a good enough level to game the garotas. Within 6 months youll be at a level where you will understand most accents and the phonetics...which is the most difficult part of portuguese. And then the girls will complement you on your sexy foreign accent in portuguese and be amazed by your fluency. That is when the pussy starts flowing.

[Pilgrim37]

(02-06-2012 10:47 AM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

If you are fluent in spanish and with 1 or 2 months studying portuguese, before going to Brazil, in 3 months you will be at an intermediate level. With that you will be at a good enough level to game the garotas. Within 6 months youll be at a level where you will understand most accents and the phonetics...which is the most difficult part of portuguese. And then the girls will complement you on your sexy foreign accent in portuguese and be amazed by your fluency. That is when the pussy starts flowing.

"That is when the pussy starts flowing."

I'd like to reach this stage in life.

Unfortunately pussy has always has always stopped and started and stopped again like slowly dripping tap during my life....never flowed or gushed like Iquasa Falls....but the drips have been tasty and refreshing for the most part!

[solo]

Right now I'm aiming for at least 6 months. If I can I, I will stay longer but I'm not sure if its possible.

Off topic: Going to do some more extensive research on where in Brazil I will go, but in all likelihood it will be a second, third or even fourth tier city. Maybe with 6 months I can split the time between 2 or 3 places...

Also, in my experience, getting to beginners' and intermediate levels can be achieved in your own home country. It's just for pushing yourself that last bit to become fluent that you need to live in the country where the language is spoken, work in the language or have a girlfriend who speaks it imo.

[IntBM]

Yeah, living in the country is definitely the fastest way to learn. Have an urgent need to rush to the bathroom in a country where you don't speak the language? You'll learn how to communicate pretty quickly. As you said, you can learn where ever you happen to be. It's just that you get a deeper understanding of the nuances of the lingo when in those situations you described (workplace, have a gf that speaks, etc).

Sorry for hopping in here since I'm not fluent in any language, but as a language enthusiast I felt the need to share. FSI has a free course specifically for "converting" your Spanish into Portuguese. Check their Portuguese section.

[Golden Boy]

Hello Solo,

I have been to Brazil 5 times, and the first time going there I was pretty lost even though I am fluent in Spanish (have been speaking it since i was a boy). I decided to learn Portuguese after getting a girlfriend from Rio (smoking hot by the way). I did language research and the best way for a Beginner to learn another language IMO, is through school. In my city, I yelped Language Schools and found several schools willing to teach Portuguese. After 6 months of classes at only one time a week, i found myself conversational. After 1 year, i was intermediate, but to really be advanced and have good grammar and converse without mistakes, the advanced students in my school have been taking it minimum 2 years or more. If you sit in front of a computer and try to learn a language, you will inevitably make mistakes and not have a teacher to correct your pronunciation of the language. My teacher really helped us learn the accent, and we practiced and spoke in portuguese and she would interject when we made a mistake. But for those of you who plan on travellling to Brazil, 6 months should be plenty of time to feel confident in your conversational skills to not feel lost while you are there. Good Luck !

[Amour Fou]

Parabéns para todos vocês aprendendo Português.

Saibam que temos uma thread caso vocês tenham dúvidas:

Portuguese language section.

Não hesitem em perguntar, os brasileiros de plantão aqui estão para ajudar.

cheers

[Mrs. Chocolate]

Que meigo, Amour Fou!

Sim, podemos ajudar, é muito bom estudar ao contrário (Português para o Inglês).

I spent 2.5 years learning Spanish, maybe it is the way around.

[Pilgrim37]

Maybe just get this teen to teach you...you'll learn...FAST.
And her lucky younger brother can help!

[scotian]

Already speaking a different language will definitely speed up the learning process of another quite a bit, especially if you learned it later in life because you are familiar with the entire language learning process.

Learning a Latin based language after already knowing another one (in my case learning Spanish and already speaking French) will be even easier!

two days ago, I bought this guy's language hacking guide:

http://www.fluentin3months.com/

At $100, it was a bit pricey, I'll let you guys know how it is once I get through it all.

[Pilgrim37]

(02-07-2012 01:47 PM)scotian Wrote:  

Already speaking a different language will definitely speed up the learning process of another quite a bit, especially if you learned it later in life because you are familiar with the entire language learning process.

Learning a Latin based language after already knowing another one (in my case learning Spanish and already speaking French) will be even easier!

two days ago, I bought this guy's language hacking guide:

http://www.fluentin3months.com/

At $100, it was a bit pricey, I'll let you guys know how it is once I get through it all.

Benny is great....If it has anything to do with what got him speaking it should be good.
Looking forward to your report!