@Rex
Yeah perhaps I'm exaggerating my dislike of Starting Strength (I'd throw Stronglift in the same boat) a bit to make a point. But I'm just sick of seeing that routine thrown around on the Internet as if it is the Strength Training Bible. Many of you guys do not know the stories behind all that, so you think my dislike goes a bit too far.
Let me tackle one first: a lot of you now have this belief that "Strength training" and "Physique training" are different things. Why is that? Did you know that originally, in the golden age of physical culture, bodybuilders, weightlifters, strongmen etc. were all the same people called... lifters? Strength was physique and physique was strength. What changed it? The biggest one was obviously steroids. I won't get into that here as it's not relevant. The second biggest one - in the sport of powerlifting - was the rise of supportive equipments. The equipments started to get so good that maxing out your lean body mass doesn't matter as much as overall mass i.e fat fucks do better than lean athletes. This is why you get all those permabulk fatties including the Starting Strength fans (the latter just don't lift much weights).
The recent rise of raw lifting has changed all of that and gone back to the origins of physical culture. To be competitive in your weight class (super heavies excepted), you need to max out your lean body mass and that means low body fat percentage. Muscular balances also matter. That means, an elite raw powerlifter is now the same as a bodybuilder and if you look around, this is very true. Exhibit A: Layne Norton is both a competitive natural bodybuilder and the current USAPL 93kg (202lb?) class champion. There's an entire IPF powerlifting channel on YouTube full of their recent raw world championships. You'll see every top guy there (again minus the superheavies) is very lean and ready to pose on stage.
Such culture only exists on SS forums. Not in actual powerlifting clubs - mine just ran a bodybuilding contest and I competed for fun! Starting Strength forum people are not powerlifters, or maybe they do powerlifting but they are very weak. You know that strength standard chart on their website, yeah? Yeah, it's rubbish. The elite (Cat V) total on their site basically just qualifies you to attend the USAPL raw nationals and probably places dead last out of 15-20 lifters in the weight class.
Have you heard of periodisation? This is a very basic programming concept for powerlifting and weightlifting. The idea is that you have X weeks (typically 10-12) until the next competition, and you program your training so that you get gradually stronger over the cycle then peak at the end for the competition date. Typically you have different phases in this cycle, and the first one is always hypertrophy with higher reps. Pretty much all powerlifters know this.
What few powerlifters do is to periodise their lean body mass / bodyfat percentage in the same manner. The first to really research it that I know of was Mauro Di Pasquale, a powerlifting world champion and bodybuilding author. You can easily search for his work, but I'll give you a brief overview:
Instead of perma-bulking (and becoming a fatty mcfat) or perma-cutting (losing all your strength gainz) you periodise your diets to coincide with your training.
This means you look at the term and plan accordingly. You want to lose the fats, gain the muscle mass AND keep that new body composition. But you do this over multiple cycles, not every week. And you track BF%, not just weight (unless you have a weight class to worry about).
I've used this strategy to go down 2 weight classes since I started powerlifting, gain LBM, lose BF% and get a lot stronger.
As for your training, there's no such thing as "bodybuilding accessories" - they're just lifting accessories. Raw powerlifters need the same things bodybuilders do: big muscles and balanced physique. If you need them, you need them. You see Lu Xiaojun up there who squats 3.5xBW paused high bar? He does curls, tricep extensions and high reps dips at the end of his training sessions all the time, because weightlifters need strong arm muscles to support all that massive weight they throw overhead. Raw powerlifters do the same, so they can bench more. I probably work my arms harder than most gym bros, although I care more about what I can do with them in benching, than showing them off to other bros.
Wait, you don't see that in Starting Strength, do you? And the SS forum fanboys probably call that gay, right?![[Image: wink.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Yeah perhaps I'm exaggerating my dislike of Starting Strength (I'd throw Stronglift in the same boat) a bit to make a point. But I'm just sick of seeing that routine thrown around on the Internet as if it is the Strength Training Bible. Many of you guys do not know the stories behind all that, so you think my dislike goes a bit too far.
Let me tackle one first: a lot of you now have this belief that "Strength training" and "Physique training" are different things. Why is that? Did you know that originally, in the golden age of physical culture, bodybuilders, weightlifters, strongmen etc. were all the same people called... lifters? Strength was physique and physique was strength. What changed it? The biggest one was obviously steroids. I won't get into that here as it's not relevant. The second biggest one - in the sport of powerlifting - was the rise of supportive equipments. The equipments started to get so good that maxing out your lean body mass doesn't matter as much as overall mass i.e fat fucks do better than lean athletes. This is why you get all those permabulk fatties including the Starting Strength fans (the latter just don't lift much weights).
The recent rise of raw lifting has changed all of that and gone back to the origins of physical culture. To be competitive in your weight class (super heavies excepted), you need to max out your lean body mass and that means low body fat percentage. Muscular balances also matter. That means, an elite raw powerlifter is now the same as a bodybuilder and if you look around, this is very true. Exhibit A: Layne Norton is both a competitive natural bodybuilder and the current USAPL 93kg (202lb?) class champion. There's an entire IPF powerlifting channel on YouTube full of their recent raw world championships. You'll see every top guy there (again minus the superheavies) is very lean and ready to pose on stage.
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Also, there is a culture in powerlifting which looks down upon training for physique/looks as "ghey" and you'll find a lot of that kind of thing on his forums...
Such culture only exists on SS forums. Not in actual powerlifting clubs - mine just ran a bodybuilding contest and I competed for fun! Starting Strength forum people are not powerlifters, or maybe they do powerlifting but they are very weak. You know that strength standard chart on their website, yeah? Yeah, it's rubbish. The elite (Cat V) total on their site basically just qualifies you to attend the USAPL raw nationals and probably places dead last out of 15-20 lifters in the weight class.
Quote:Quote:
I'm looking for some kind of balance. I gained about 35 lbs last year. I've since lost about 5 and would like to lose another 20.
I don't think at this point I'll be doing linear progression on a caloric deficit...maybe something like 5/3/1 but with a few bodybuilding accessories thrown in?
The idea of training across different rep ranges besides 5 reps all the time sounds like it could be a smart one.
Have you heard of periodisation? This is a very basic programming concept for powerlifting and weightlifting. The idea is that you have X weeks (typically 10-12) until the next competition, and you program your training so that you get gradually stronger over the cycle then peak at the end for the competition date. Typically you have different phases in this cycle, and the first one is always hypertrophy with higher reps. Pretty much all powerlifters know this.
What few powerlifters do is to periodise their lean body mass / bodyfat percentage in the same manner. The first to really research it that I know of was Mauro Di Pasquale, a powerlifting world champion and bodybuilding author. You can easily search for his work, but I'll give you a brief overview:
Instead of perma-bulking (and becoming a fatty mcfat) or perma-cutting (losing all your strength gainz) you periodise your diets to coincide with your training.
This means you look at the term and plan accordingly. You want to lose the fats, gain the muscle mass AND keep that new body composition. But you do this over multiple cycles, not every week. And you track BF%, not just weight (unless you have a weight class to worry about).
I've used this strategy to go down 2 weight classes since I started powerlifting, gain LBM, lose BF% and get a lot stronger.
As for your training, there's no such thing as "bodybuilding accessories" - they're just lifting accessories. Raw powerlifters need the same things bodybuilders do: big muscles and balanced physique. If you need them, you need them. You see Lu Xiaojun up there who squats 3.5xBW paused high bar? He does curls, tricep extensions and high reps dips at the end of his training sessions all the time, because weightlifters need strong arm muscles to support all that massive weight they throw overhead. Raw powerlifters do the same, so they can bench more. I probably work my arms harder than most gym bros, although I care more about what I can do with them in benching, than showing them off to other bros.
Wait, you don't see that in Starting Strength, do you? And the SS forum fanboys probably call that gay, right?