You guys are acting like game and self-improvement are mutually exclusive -- news flash, they aren't. They are one and the same.
Agreed. I understand the point you're coming from Athlone (I assume you've seen the Blueprint) and I agree, but you seem to be putting your argument on it's on pedestal.
I see two ways to achieve success with women:
1) Approach a lot of women. Realize you are confident.
2) Realize you are confident. Then approach a lot of women.
Approaching women is an undeniable catalyst to self-improvement. Men inherently put weight onto their success with women as a determinant of their self-worth. This is why the advice to "go and approach 1000 women" is so popular. It forces you to realize that you are confident, as well as improving social skills and situational-confidence when dealing with women.
This is something you can get past, a spiritual realization if you will, but it is something that most men do not achieve (or even want to, in fact).
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Athlone, you must realize that sometimes women are the area where men want to improve themselves not just to get laid. Just like you may want to become a better guitarist or a person of better character, you may also want to just become better with women. I see no harm in this.
The harm comes from drawing confidence externally (something you must be aware of). Deriving your sense of worth based on your success/failures with women is insanity. You wouldn't judge your sense of self based on how well you could shred on a guitar would you?
No, you need to realize you are a person of value. Every person has value whether or not they realize it. That is the gift of life. You don't need to "DHV" or have money or be some fuckin celebrity to have value. If you can make a girl smile you brought value into this world -- even if she rejects you. Smile back and move on.
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On another note, I would like to reiterate what some people have said. Social skills are just that -- skills. You're not born a concert-level pianist. Mozart began playing piano when he was 4 years old and his father was an important violinist in that time. Over time, Mozarts skills on piano became amazing. I would be hesitant to call him a prodigy. He is a product of hard work.
Same thing with social skills. If you want to sharpen your skills then you have to approach, talk to people, and be sociable aka practice it.
But, just like learning guitar, your sense of self should be disconnected from the outcomes here.
I doubt professional jugglers beat themselves up over a dropped ball.
Quote: (07-01-2011 04:27 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:
True confidence will never derive simply from a man's attempts to interact with women, nevermind their consistent rejections of him. Women will never build you up-only you can do that.
Agreed. I understand the point you're coming from Athlone (I assume you've seen the Blueprint) and I agree, but you seem to be putting your argument on it's on pedestal.
I see two ways to achieve success with women:
1) Approach a lot of women. Realize you are confident.
2) Realize you are confident. Then approach a lot of women.
Approaching women is an undeniable catalyst to self-improvement. Men inherently put weight onto their success with women as a determinant of their self-worth. This is why the advice to "go and approach 1000 women" is so popular. It forces you to realize that you are confident, as well as improving social skills and situational-confidence when dealing with women.
This is something you can get past, a spiritual realization if you will, but it is something that most men do not achieve (or even want to, in fact).
---
Athlone, you must realize that sometimes women are the area where men want to improve themselves not just to get laid. Just like you may want to become a better guitarist or a person of better character, you may also want to just become better with women. I see no harm in this.
The harm comes from drawing confidence externally (something you must be aware of). Deriving your sense of worth based on your success/failures with women is insanity. You wouldn't judge your sense of self based on how well you could shred on a guitar would you?
No, you need to realize you are a person of value. Every person has value whether or not they realize it. That is the gift of life. You don't need to "DHV" or have money or be some fuckin celebrity to have value. If you can make a girl smile you brought value into this world -- even if she rejects you. Smile back and move on.
---
On another note, I would like to reiterate what some people have said. Social skills are just that -- skills. You're not born a concert-level pianist. Mozart began playing piano when he was 4 years old and his father was an important violinist in that time. Over time, Mozarts skills on piano became amazing. I would be hesitant to call him a prodigy. He is a product of hard work.
Same thing with social skills. If you want to sharpen your skills then you have to approach, talk to people, and be sociable aka practice it.
But, just like learning guitar, your sense of self should be disconnected from the outcomes here.
I doubt professional jugglers beat themselves up over a dropped ball.