You talk about the bigger picture, but I don't see it in your post. I see lots of "smaller picture" scenarios. Let's go through them:
I'd like to see some stats here. Both my parents owned their own business in the 20th century and I don't recall them ever cutting their hours. It was always 60-80.
I don't think any French bistro ever closed because too many ethnic minorities moved in. Every French bistro I know of are in neighborhoods that ethnic minorities are too broke to afford.
I do agree that it's largely ethnic groups that utilize public service like free parks and transportation, but you can't fault them for that. Most white people don't ride the bus in L.A. because it's such a shitty system, and they don't go to parks because they're too insular and would rather be hanging out at the Standard rooftop pool.
I wrote a post about this a month or two ago. The most miserable people I see are white people in Whole Foods, so I stopped going. The most polite people I've seen at a grocery store are at my local Ralph's, in mid city, who are mostly black and hispanic (or mestizo or whatever the hell you want to call them. Brown)
That's an exaggeration. Nobody HAS to work 80 hours, it's called jumping at opportunity and a strong work ethic. My guys working 80 hours a week make about 50k per year. Not bad for someone without a college degree and wasn't born here. That's about 5 times more than they'd make back home, depending if they're Mexican or Central American. That's also how much I've had to work at various points in my career to get where I am today, and now work 50 hours a week.
Whoever espoused that idea?
Your post largely consists of rhetoric based on your own personal experiences, or I don't know what. I'm not sure. Just like my posts are based on my experience, which happen to come from Los Angeles, the third largest economic center in the entire world. [/quote]
Quote: (02-07-2014 09:12 AM)Blaster Wrote:
To see most of the side-effects, you have to look at a bigger picture and include social consequences. I have seen your story myself and is partly why I made the point that a rigid, inflexible policy is a bad idea. But it's not the whole story.
Doing the same job for less pay isn't a "bad thing" in and of itself. That's how a free labor market works. But when the US moved away from 80-hour work weeks in the 20th century it was considered progress and greatly improved the quality of life for Americans, especially middle-class Americans.
I'd like to see some stats here. Both my parents owned their own business in the 20th century and I don't recall them ever cutting their hours. It was always 60-80.
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To see how immigration can harm or at least change a community you have to look at the whole community. You have to look at the burden on public services (schools, police, transportation, use of public parks and recreation, etc.). You have to look at the effects on housing and rental markets. You have to look at the changing demand for local businesses, for example a french bistro failing and a cheap-eats taqueria opening in its place. You have to look at secondary effects. The immigrant workers might not collect welfare but the displaced Americans will. Or, more likely, the baby momma's of the displaced American workers will collect the welfare.
I don't think any French bistro ever closed because too many ethnic minorities moved in. Every French bistro I know of are in neighborhoods that ethnic minorities are too broke to afford.
I do agree that it's largely ethnic groups that utilize public service like free parks and transportation, but you can't fault them for that. Most white people don't ride the bus in L.A. because it's such a shitty system, and they don't go to parks because they're too insular and would rather be hanging out at the Standard rooftop pool.
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You also have to look at the day to day interactions of the people when they interact with store clerks, food service workers and such. It's hard to describe how much nicer it is to interact with a cheerful teenage girl who speaks fluent English than a sullen adult who mumbles and barely makes eye contact. If you go to a grocery store in a small community in white middle America, you're more likely to get the teenage girl (though increasingly she will be overweight). If you go to a grocery store in big city immigrant neighborhoods, you're more likely to get the sullen adult.
I wrote a post about this a month or two ago. The most miserable people I see are white people in Whole Foods, so I stopped going. The most polite people I've seen at a grocery store are at my local Ralph's, in mid city, who are mostly black and hispanic (or mestizo or whatever the hell you want to call them. Brown)
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You also have to look at the scale of the demographic change and the capacity for the immigrants to improve their economic standing over time. Young males working hard 80 hour work weeks to "pay their dues" is OK so long as the system will reward them for sacrificing their youth in such a way. If 80 hard work weeks become the norm, that means quality of life is going down not up. It will mean an increasing gap between wealthy and poor and decreasing ability of the poor people do anything but work eat and live in soul-crushing tenement housing.
That's an exaggeration. Nobody HAS to work 80 hours, it's called jumping at opportunity and a strong work ethic. My guys working 80 hours a week make about 50k per year. Not bad for someone without a college degree and wasn't born here. That's about 5 times more than they'd make back home, depending if they're Mexican or Central American. That's also how much I've had to work at various points in my career to get where I am today, and now work 50 hours a week.
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That's why there has to be a sane, sensible immigration policy that doesn't simply take one look at a cheerful, hard-working Mexican and say open borders forever it's every man for himself.
Whoever espoused that idea?
Your post largely consists of rhetoric based on your own personal experiences, or I don't know what. I'm not sure. Just like my posts are based on my experience, which happen to come from Los Angeles, the third largest economic center in the entire world. [/quote]