Quote: (10-01-2010 08:15 AM)exe Wrote:
Are you really serious? I'm not an expert on WWII but I know that most of these countries fell fairly easily, some because Hitler negotiated with the political leaders - there was no need for serious battles like Stalingrad where things dragged on and complex military strategy and tactics were needed to win. In Operation Yellow and Operation Red - the invasion of France and the low countries - blitzkrieg succeeded partly because the tank commanders DIDN'T listen to Hitler's orders to stop. One example was the drive all the way to Dunkirk - the 'crescent' that flanked the French & British forces. In Operation Barbarossa, the generals and field commanders wanted to take Moscow first - taking the capital was of top military strategic priority. But Hitler stubbornly focused on Stalingrad because of its name.
Wow, this is quite a mess.
For the countries I listed the negotiations either happened but failed (Poland), only happened after the fall of the country was obvious and succeed (Belgium, Netherlands), happened after the fall of the country was obvious but did not succeed (Norway) or didn't happen at all (France). Belgium, for example, did not surrender immediately just in case, only when its main defense system was captured and destroyed and it was obvious the allies won't be able to help it. You obviously know about Eben Emael, don't you?
Tank commanders DID listen to Hitler's orders to stop when such orders were issued - they stopped before Dunkirk, and the "miracle of Dunkirk" happened. As I say, their memories (especially Guderian) are quite unreliable, and tend to blame Hitler of everything including their own screw-ups. If you use them, always cross-verify them against, for example, Halder's diary, which is significantly less biased.
"Focus on Moscow" happened (and changed) in mid 1941, and Stalingrad happened in late 1942. Also you probably remember Napoleon captured Moscow, did it help him?
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Don't tell me that Stalingrad wasn't urban warfare. It came down to a building to building, room to room effort to push the Russians to the river.
I will tell you exactly that. The Battle of Stalingrad took over 6 months, with total loss (from both sides) exceeded 2 MILLION people. It involved several major operations, most of which happened outside Stalingrad. To call this operation "urban warfare" is a major underestimation - pretty much like limiting the US-Japan war to Pearl Harbor.