Quote: (03-14-2012 09:58 PM)Samseau Wrote:Interesting. I agree with you to a point. I agree that tight game takes initiative, dedication, and a modicum of personal responsibility. However, I think in 2012 we take for granted the guys who put in work to lay the foundation of the seduction community. Everyone on here has utilized some form of the information that is out on game. For some people, that is enough.
This thread was awesome. What an intense flame war. I loved all the RSD commentary and bashing. Some really good points made by Jerome, Sebastian, and Vorkuta.
Quote:Quote:
While a lot of guys take bootcamps for the magic bullet, others take it to shorten their learning curve.
I could learn a language on my own, but it would take much longer than if I ponied up the cash and did an intensive course with a native speaker.
I would argue, Roosh, that game is one of those things with very few shortcuts. The only way to learn tight game is by yourself.
People learn differently. Some guys can just read game concepts and get the nuances right away. Others (I would argue the vast majority) need to see it or have it explained to them or experience it to actually improve. That is where calibration comes in. A guy goes out, runs game, see what worked for him that particular night, and makes changes based on the feedback he gets over a period of time.
Now, if a guy can come in and spot me, tell me from a 3rd person point of view analysis, I'm all for it. I'm also for watching guys in field. That is super helpful, as it does break down any mental barriers, especially if the guy I am watching is not as physically attractive as me.
I never went to a hotseat, or bootcamp. Only a free tour years back with Jeffy. There was no in field video, but it was free with a deposit of like 25 or 30 bucks. That's a meal for me. Not a thing. My good friend and former wing went to a hot seat and he told me he saw a video of a fat Tyler Durden (TD used to be fat as fuck. I would say around 220 or 230 at 5'9") pulling 9's into the hotel room. If someone brought fat TD to me in 2004 and told me he fucked a 9, I would have laughed in his face. Now, I've seen videos, read up on game, and know better.
For some people, 300 for a one day seminar and 2000 for a bootcamp is too much money. At this point in my life, that is a bit much for my percieved return. However, for a full-on noob or even a guy who wants to improve his game and has extra cash, I think it's a good deal. To be honest, I would rather travel.
I look at bootcamp/seminars/hotseats as a direct investment into your social and game skills. One is actively trying to improve a skill set. Traveling is leisure (depending on the destination) and fun with the latent effect of making one a more interesting person. Both have their benefits.
It doesn't have to be a one or the other debate. It's not like people here have a finite level of money or resources. You can always make more and do both.
My 2 cents.