Quote: (06-09-2014 05:29 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

Quote: (06-09-2014 01:37 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I think this was mentioned in the other thread, but I'm quite stunned at the SLOWNESS of the sex speed here, even compared to Ukraine. I'm getting resistance at the kiss upon the end of the first date. In Ukraine I was mostly successful in that feat. Most girls are not drinking at all.

Usually when you get a girl back to your apartment, some action is assured, but here the girls put up insane resistance even when you're isolated in a comfortable apartment. Am I doing something wrong or what? I feel like getting just a bit of action requires large amounts of work and aggressiveness. Two girls have said they want a relationship, not sex, as in the relationship must come first. Come on now, no pussy is worth that much work.

It's not just the small towns. The women here in Moscow absolutely have MPS too.

I'm convinced it's just the club girls, or rare bluebirds who will give it up on the first or 2nd date. I've had pretty much the same conversation with every girl I've dated, where I say, "In the US, if we like each other, we have sex quickly. It's good this way." Then the girl says something to the effect of, "In Russia, a girl who does this is not good girl. Only bad girl do this here. It is known". (they didn't really say "it is known", but they might as well have. And I've been watching too much GoT).

Quote: (06-09-2014 02:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

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I enjoy the process because the girls are usually a pleasure to spend time with

Girls in Poland, Romania, Croatia, and Estonia are a pleasure to spend time with, and they move to sex much faster, and they are often proficient in my language, and their countries are cheaper. Maybe Russian girls have a lower notch count, but I'm not exactly looking for a wife at the moment.

In the US, a girl showing up for a date is a big deal. In Poland, phone numbers were a big deal. In Russia...kissing is the big deal.

It does appear that young Russian women have a lower notch count. But I'm not sure if that translates to trustworthiness. I've yet to date 1 girl here with parents who are still together. Yet they all talk about "serious relations" this and "strong family" that.

I'm no math wiz, but this shit ain't adding up.

You got that right brother. It's kind of refreshing to me that the Russian girls are truly looking for a man/marriage etc. especially given how most American women have 5 minute attention spans, think they can do no wrong and bang every dude they meet until they are 35 (and have that awful manly vocal fry, but that's another issue). But the math doesn't add up when you consider how many divorces there are.

Call me crazy and I know I'll get some sh*t for this but I really think in modern day Russia it's probably more the men's fault then the women given how good men have it right now. For me it's sort of like 1950s and 60s America in some ways with more hot women (at least in Moscow & Peter) and men having endless opportunities to move on if things aren't going their way. I think Russian divorce laws are much fairer to men as well which helps a ton.

I don't think it really translates into trustworthiness at the end of the day, but Russian women are probably more trustworthy than Anglosphere women especially if they know they have a good thing going on. In Russia a good man is truly hard to find. That said, they are still women and hypergamy exists on some level no matter where you are.

Since I was more than open to having a 'relationship' with the girls I met (albeit after a heavy vetting process) and was living there full time I guess I was more able to deal with the drawn-out 'dating' process and just play a waiting game (hell I was doing that in the US for years with sub-par women given my old beta attitude). I ended up having multiple 2-3-4 month 'mini-relationships' mostly (with a lot of overlap in the beginning and the end with new girls)). I can't recall if I ever had a one night stand...think I had one and it was with a Kazakh artsy girl. Since I'm also not averse to finding a wife (or mother to some kids) I guess my priorities are naturally somewhat more focused and thus I don't get worried about wasting time. However, when I go back and am on a more limited timeframe I'm sure I'll be much more cognizant of the 'time to bang'.

Quote: (06-10-2014 11:41 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

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The quality to effort ratio is definitely out of whack in Moscow too.

So focus on really pretty girls but not TOO pretty or else she's expecting the oligarch treatment?

Yes, I think that's the right way to play it.

But I'd qualify that by saying there are lots of pretty girls here who don't know how pretty they are. Those are the ones you really want to invest the time with.

Because so many are already skinny & pretty, a big differentiator here is attitude & presentation. Many Russian women have low self esteem, due to a lifetime of being treated like second class citizens by Russian men. Men come first here. Women second. It's ingrained in the society.

Russian women go ga ga over western men, because they give compliments & put them on pedestals. It's not just about money. There are many rich Russian men here driving Porches, Ferarri & Bentley.

The 9's & 10's here who look like it, dress like it, and think like it, are seen walking with beastly looking creatures. I am not convinced many have fully evolved.

Quote: (06-10-2014 06:13 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I fed her some carrot cake in a romantic gesture

Hey guys,
Im actually from Germany and have lived in Russia for a while. what I can say is their women are some of the nicest Ive seen. Im not the type of guy who likes to bang different girls every night. I prefer mini relationships with multiple women at the same time. If I were roosh I would just go out with several different girls and that would be it. after a few days you get to bang them and when you have several of them at the same time, just keep going from one to another... sex with one specific girl for a long period of time is better qualiyt sex than one night stands with random girls. Im a bit of a clean freak too so I like my women to be clean shaved and disease free and I like to know who they are and know they are not sluts who sleep around. plus if Im with her for along time she knows how to please me. I would have invested time in mini relationships with multiple russian chicks and get good quality sex on a regualar basis. as soon as one of them starts talking about love and getting serious you throw her out and replace with the next one. in the long run its cheaper and costs you less effort tham constantly wining and dining new chicks for a one time bang.

I think "Deluge" nailed it. The slow sex is probably partly related to being in a small Siberian town. For the most part, I didn't see this super conservative sex side of Russian women in Moscow (for the short time I was there), and I also didn't read about this conservatism in "Sex, Drugs, and Libel in the New Russia"...

But in Moscow I did have two meetups with a girl who wouldn't make out with me, but who still messages me on skype. I just figured she was an odd duck, but she's probably emblematic of a slice of Russian girls.

"Pretty woman" was a sex education video for many girls there. So you may want to try to escalate without kissing first. As kissing is for the ones they love

Moscow first impressions:

-Moscow is insanely expensive. Hard to find value here. I spent about $400 in two days (not including lodging). I can't imagine this is a fun city if you're on a tight budget.

-Tons of girls in the 25-30 range that genuinely want to meet a guy

-During the day you don't feel the hotness of the girls but in the club it's quite nice. You don't run out of options.

-Kiss speed is much faster than Tomsk, but sex speed seems to be similar. I'm not getting any ONS vibe at all, and will not be trying for them anymore. You gotta plan for 2-5 dates.

-Decent number of girls speak English. You can probably do okay here without much Russian.

-If a girl likes you, it's pretty obvious within the first five minutes. Game is similar to Brazil in that either you're in from the beginning or not.

-High expectation for guys to pay for taxis/drinks/etc. They don't scam, but they don't offer the occasional round. They're not really big in saying "Thank you" either but escalation proceeds nonetheless.

-Girls are more friendly/nice in Moscow than Tomsk. Can't say I've had a sour interaction, even when rejected.

-If a girl doesn't speak English, either (1) She does but doesn't want to meet you, or (2) She doesn't and is shy about meeting a foreigner, or (3) She doesn't and doesn't want to meet you (pretty easy to tell in this case).

-Multiple guys I talked to said Russia has a lead-up time before things get going (at least a month), but once that happens, you're good. Staying for 2 weeks is not a wise move unless you heavily pipeline on the internet. For that amount of time, I wouldn't come with a day game strategy unless you plan on doing it full time. Night game is very good for gaining options though it will be expensive to have fun, and girls like bouncing between venues which quickly increases the cost.

-Account for face control. I've been FC'ed twice out of about 8 or so club entries (not so bad, I think), but prepare for it. Some clubs like foreigners and some don't. Seems to be random.

-A lot of guys made me nervous that girls would confuse me for a Caucas guy, but I don't get there here. No girl has inquired as to my parental origins like in Tomsk. I got zero tests for being a sex tourist like I would in Ukraine, where the interrogation on your backstory is harder.

Bottom line: Tons of girls ready to mingle but it's very expensive and you need time.

I haven't decided if I will stay long but leaning against it because of the cost. Ukraine is seeing bargain basement prices right now and the girls there are similar and just as beautiful to me as in Russia. It comes down the economical factor. I think in the long-run I'd probably do better in Moscow than Kiev/Odessa, but would have to pay at least 2x as much.

The best combination of women, value, and lifestyle seems to be Ukraine and Poland for me.

Moscow sounds promising. Planning to stay longer in Moscow compared to Tomsk based on your initial impressions?

Roosh can you give an approximate cost and conditions (whether its central or not) of your apartment?

Moscow is one huge city, and as such highly exceeds that "500k-1.5 million" range that most people find perfect for a pussy paradise. Fortunately, transportation is satisfactory. I agree that Moscow is very expensive city, however i know there are many ways to live cheaper there, since it houses all sorts of classes. Still, it was much of a high energy city for me, with lot of that "cosmopolitan" vibe present. Compare it to some cities in eastern Europe, like Minsk for example, which feel cool and quiet as sanatoriums compared to Moscow.

Still i like Moscow. It's a self-sufficient place, far away from everything.

I hope you can at least spend a few days in St. Pete before heading back to Ukraine/Poland, but I wouldn't blame you if you didn't. Honestly, the prices in Ukraine may be too good to pass up.

@Roosh, any thoughts on Belarus? Minsk is the cheapest capital in Europe, they speak Russian and from what I've read, the quality is at the same level as in Ukraine/Russia. There's also not a ONS culture I think.

Quote: (06-15-2014 02:12 PM)Luisaceo Wrote:  

@Roosh, any thoughts on Belarus? Minsk is the cheapest capital in Europe, they speak Russian and from what I've read, the quality is at the same level as in Ukraine/Russia. There's also not a ONS culture I think.

@ Luisaceo
Not sure about cheapest capital in Europe (I think Chisinau & Tirana might be cheaper). The "white God Factor" is noticeable there but does not mean that everyone will be able to exploit it. I threw down some quick observations in this post:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-31826-...ht=belarus

Minsk is a good place to practice one's game, albeit an advanced level of Russian is required and the city is on the boring side with lack of things to do. English language knowledge is limited...no central nightlife district and though I did see hot girls on the streets they were still not on par with Kiev. If one is on a budget and is looking for a mini-relationship then it is a great city but for ONS I think there are better places.

Belarus is aweful for daygame but very good for nightgame.I think roosh would do well there but he would do better in CR.

Quote: (06-15-2014 06:42 AM)UnW Wrote:  

Moscow sounds promising. Planning to stay longer in Moscow compared to Tomsk based on your initial impressions?

Moscow is super expensive. I was looking at apartment rentals and anything somewhat decent inside the first ring is about $2000 a month. I'm staying in between the first and second rings right now and while it's still quite central, I feel far from the main action and rather live closer in.

Last year in Odessa (before the conflict), I found a central apartment that was a 7 minute walk from the city garden for $600/month.

Quote: (06-15-2014 07:48 AM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

Roosh can you give an approximate cost and conditions (whether its central or not) of your apartment?

You can check out airbnb, but you're looking at $100-125 a night for a decent apartment with one bedroom. I saw some for less but the reviews weren't so good.

Quote: (06-15-2014 02:12 PM)Luisaceo Wrote:  

@Roosh, any thoughts on Belarus? Minsk is the cheapest capital in Europe, they speak Russian and from what I've read, the quality is at the same level as in Ukraine/Russia. There's also not a ONS culture I think.

I'm really liking the English prevalence in Moscow. I heard in Minsk that English speakers are rare. I'll continue to study Russian, but it's nice that there are girls who not only know English, but love speaking it. My experience in Siberia kind of pushed my mind back to 1st tier and upper 2nd tier locations.

I was scared to come to Moscow because of how rich the competition is and how spoiled the girls are, but I've gotten more action in two days here from higher quality than my first two weeks in Tomsk. If you got the cash and you are ready to put in effort, Moscow will provide. It's just the cost I can't deal with. Today I went to a cafe to have two espressos and a piece of cake. Cost: $15. For dinner I had a burger, fries, carrot juice, and water. Cost: $28. These were NOT high end places. It's silly.

Roosh brings up a good point. Moscow is full of girls who are interested in studying English. Usually this is for job-related reasons, however they also understand that English is the universal language so to speak. Thus, they will be interested in interacting with native speakers. I believe there may also be some status associated with speaking English, or at least knowing some.

If I recall correctly, my average cost per day in Moscow for food and lodging (central location) was about $300. Roosh's summary above was a bit of a deja vu.

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Today I went to a cafe to have two espressos and a piece of cake. Cost: $15. For dinner I had a burger, fries, carrot juice, and water. Cost: $28. These were NOT high end places. It's silly.

That is what keeps me away. Although I supposedly have relatives we can stay with I cant fathom spending 28 bucks for a Burger and fries. I think in NYC I can get that for 10 bucks lol.
I think Moscow is one of those cities where you can find action outside the center.

In Moscow i ate in a supermarket for about 15$. They had tables chairs and everything.

Imagine a country of vast income disparity with one city where all the rich congregate.

Imagine a city in which all the business, government, art, and culture is centered.

Imagine how expensive a city would be. That's Moscow.

Most Russian experts will probably laugh at my stupidity, but I am coming to the conclusion that one should never accept a venue change to somewhere a girl recommends or mentions. Not because the places she will want to go are scam spots, but because the places she will want to go are places where she has a lot of friends and you will be second fiddle and can never isolate, etc.

I have spent significant time in five Russian cities now, and my absolute favorite is Moscow. Roosh you are in Mecca, no need to leave unless you want some culture or specific travel experiences (or have been bled dry by Moscow's cost of living). I don't think you will find any better girls unless you are searching for a wife.

I think the high Moscow costs can be partially alleviated by adjusting your habits/mindset. I cook meals at home the majority of the time, reserving eating out for dates. I don't use a taxi unless I'm pulling a girl and need to get us back quickly - the metro is efficient and convenient...also cheap (buy the 1200 rubles 60 trip card and each trip comes out to 58 cents).

Many of these girls don't require lounges, endless cocktails, meals, etc. to get in bed with you. Lots of them know Moscow is expensive and they'll only "require" these things if they know they can extract them from you and if they think you're a cash machine. If they don't see you this way, and they see you more as a permanent expat, working and living just like they are, they'll be more than happy to have dinner at home with you (they are usually very happy to cook for you, and you can bring flowers or the booze over when you come).

The food at neighborhood markets isn't exorbitantly priced either. The priciest thing being meat, lean chicken breasts and beef cuts. But, other than that, most foods are reasonable. A decent bottle of wine is under $15...a decent bottle of vodka under $10...a pack of Parliament Carat (the priciest cigs sold here) is $3.

As far as housing costs, I can't comment much on that yet as I've been staying in a company-provided flat since I arrived. However, I'll be getting my own place in a few months and have started looking around. I'm finding decent flats for under 35k rubles, and have accepted the fact that I will most likely have to live with another expat and will not be in the dead center of the city - so be it.

I think the idea that buying nightly Airbnb apartments at $100 a night, eating out each day, buying lots of cocktails at the bar and not pregaming (Roosh saw my water bottle flask that I use on the way to the club ), bouncing around in cabs all night, going on lots of *pay* dates vs. walks in the park or free museum dates...all of these sum up to a very expensive time here, but aren't necessary to have a good time and get what you want from the city.

Are there many foreigners? How westernized is Moscow?

Quote: (06-15-2014 06:40 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

For dinner I had a burger, fries, carrot juice, and water. Cost: $28. These were NOT high end places. It's silly.

Burger promotion at "The Loft" (high end) in Dnipropetrovsk. One burger, one pint of Lowenbrau, one Jack Daniels, 130 UAH (8 €).

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I think the high Moscow costs can be partially alleviated by adjusting your habits/mindset.

I agree, but for a guy who has had a certain lifestyle for a couple years, to have to greatly adjust in Moscow in order to maybe get girls who aren't significantly better than Ukraine, is a tough pill to swallow. If my job was dependent on living in Moscow, then I can do that, but I'm free (maybe too free) to live anywhere. Unless I fall deeply in love within the next 10 days, I won't be able to rationalize staying.

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Are there many foreigners? How westernized is Moscow?

Yes, many foreigners. Hearing English outside is not uncommon. Moscow has a lot of Westernized stores and food chains, and I'm noticing girls having some smartphone addiction problems, but the level of Westernization is less than Poland.

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I am coming to the conclusion that one should never accept a venue change to somewhere a girl recommends or mentions

Yes this is a good bet. Presidentcarter and I kind of got slightly burned doing this on Saturday night.

On Friday a girl suggested we go to a club (we met in another club). We went and I noticed it was quite upper class, so my mind is already wondering how expensive a drink is. And then we got face controlled. I have never been so happy to get face controlled in my life.

A lot of your thoughts are coinciding with my thoughts about Moscow too. Though in the end, I found it better than Kiev overall though probably not relatively if you factor in the costs. That said, I felt like I could pull higher quality in Moscow and would settling going to Kiev.

I found the same thing about the Brazilian similarity too, I think I even actually mentioned it in my thread. It was really refreshing, especially coming from Tomsk where I got burned multiple times and always felt like the girls had an agenda.

Interestingly, my buddy got face controlled a few times when he had his Tomsk girl with him, yet I did not at the same venue. Nor did he get face controlled when he was with me and not her. Maybe they don't like it when a couple shows up?

I think for me personally, and this is just pure speculation, the reason I loved Moscow so much is because you could find the sweeter girls at night too. Whereas in Kiev, Tomsk, etc. the night girls are the type that are calculating sluts, in Moscow you also get the professional crowd that lets loose. And since I only did/do night game, Moscow was the only one that still gave me the sampling that you guys who do both get. Again just speculation.

Edit: On the 2-5 date thing, I think you can go quicker on certain girls from night time. My bangs came as:

- ONS from Barbados on Thursday (Menace actually helped me out winging, but I had to put in a lot of time to outlast her work friends)
- 2nd date, met at Icon. First date typical one or two drinks and she went home. Wasn't even really a 2nd date, she was drunk on the weekend and texted me to come get her.
- 2nd date, met at Barbados on Thursday (same night as #1 actually). First date typical, 2nd date she just came over to my place. This girl was just super horny though.

Other girl I went on 7 dates with and got nothing. Another fizzled out after the first date, and several others never met up with again. I think Akula had a good system where he would farm girls on the weekend, get #'s, then setup dates during the week. I believe that was his style anyway.