I think a huge chunk of American guys that date good looking girls are at their mercy. The woman is in control of everything and the guys kiss their ass. Sure as hell aint a 50/50 relationship. theyre worried about losing that good pussy and bow down for it. Ratios are so fucked up in America and how many guys will try to talk to a hot girl outside of his circle? They latch onto that girl tight and treat it like a goldmine. Discuss.

there's a reason for the saying "batting above one's average". when these guys break up, i'm never surprised to see that their next partner is a seriously downgrade. must be psychologically tough.

i've seen drops from a 9 to a 5. harrowing.

Mo men tum

Quote: (10-24-2013 06:09 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

i've seen drops from a 9 to a 5. harrowing.

Gives new meaning to "the 9-to-5 grind." That sucks.

my first thoughts on this.. it pretty much the same when you flip the script no?...

in my opinion and observation your average person just wants to "experience" or "ride the the bull" and be done (or ride for as long as possible)... because most know that you can't stop that train.. She/he are in too high of a demand to even phathom handle them down for a significant amount of time.. sure some cooler fucker will come along and go against the odds and beat them for a nice little minute. but as we all know its a matter of time before that runs its course as well..

of course when you and I "lose" a beautiful woman we consider a 9 or 10. it's not going to be awesome. because we know she was official and by her being official makes us official and "proves" to the masses they need to come get a sample of you as well...hahahaha

I lost what I was trying to say. hopefully someone gets what I'm saying here

It's definitely a power struggle for me. I don't see many 8s in DC, so I have to control my thirst when I've found one for ONS and I keep pinging them for more. I hate letting go of that boner-popping face and body as much as the next guy. But when you are aware of the ratio of you initiating contact and getting them out or to bang, it's kind of painful to cease contact when you know you're beginning to see that it's not working in your favor. I'm halfway through the GFTOW program to get over one I ceased contact with recently. Thirstyyyyyy in the badlands of DC.

I'm back in the US for week and I'm literally shocked at how bad it is here.

If you want to 'date' girls and think about a relationship it seems to me the pool of slim, attractive women is just so small on a percentage basis it's incredible. Sure certain cities are better than others but generally it's a disaster. The ratios when you are out at a bar/club are awful. There are relatively few attractive girls and lots of thirsty dudes all over them. And it's not just the bars it's daygame too. I was at the mall yesterday and don't think I counted more than 2-3 girls I'd be even somewhat motivated to bang. Part of that's bc I live in Russia I guess and I'm used to some pretty attractive women. But I've spent a fair bit of time in Europe and other places this year and the US seems to be the worst of the lot.

Sure seems like ANY woman over a 5 here knows her value here and uses it to her advantage. 50+ percent of the women are like 15-25 pounds overweight, and many are more like 50-75 pounds overweight. I see huge 200+ pound cows out with decent looking dudes who seem to have their sh*t together. It's a bit depressing.

So women are in the drivers seat from a dating and relationship standpoint and that's why guys are many times on the defensive. Sure if you're just looking for a few ONS here and there + some regulars in the mix you can do that and get by fine in America, but the high quality / attractive women are just so few that it makes it tough to actually date them and pursue a relationship - they have too many options generally. And for marriage it's 10x worse given how skewed divorce laws are generally in favor of women. They have got you by the balls and they know it. I know game can counter this reality but when the overall pool is generally so awful it's hard to motivate I think and most guys end up settling and/or fighting an endless battle on the dating/relationship front. Especially when they get toward their late 20s and everyone else is starting to get married or already is, so they just settle.

Quote: (10-24-2013 06:45 PM)slothpiece Wrote:  

I don't see many 8s in DC, so I have to control my thirst when I've found one for ONS and I keep pinging them for more.

I've seen more quality girls in the D.C. area in the past two months than I have ever seen here. It may very well be a fluke, because I don't see any other D.C. guys on here posting anything to that effect.

Quote: (10-24-2013 10:33 PM)Akula Wrote:  

I'm back in the US for week and I'm literally shocked at how bad it is here.

If you want to 'date' girls and think about a relationship it seems to me the pool of slim, attractive women is just so small on a percentage basis it's incredible. Sure certain cities are better than others but generally it's a disaster. The ratios when you are out at a bar/club are awful. There are relatively few attractive girls and lots of thirsty dudes all over them. And it's not just the bars it's daygame too. I was at the mall yesterday and don't think I counted more than 2-3 girls I'd be even somewhat motivated to bang. Part of that's bc I live in Russia I guess and I'm used to some pretty attractive women. But I've spent a fair bit of time in Europe and other places this year and the US seems to be the worst of the lot.

There are tons of threads on the forum about how much of a sausage party the U.S. is becoming. Those of us who are in the know should probably just relocate considering it's a losing battle and there's not much we can do to change the demographics. Let the less enlightened among us take trips to IKEA on the weekend with the one bitchy harridan they were able to lock down.

Quote: (10-24-2013 06:01 PM)houston Wrote:  

I think a huge chunk of American guys that date good looking girls are at their mercy. The woman is in control of everything and the guys kiss their ass. Sure as hell aint a 50/50 relationship. theyre worried about losing that good pussy and bow down for it. Ratios are so fucked up in America and how many guys will try to talk to a hot girl outside of his circle? They latch onto that girl tight and treat it like a goldmine. Discuss.

From what I've seen, a guy dating a hot chick is way more likely to be alpha.

Most American guys are fully plugged into the feminist matrix, and in general are just pussy whipped losers of epic proportions. I see so many decent looking smart guys dating 4's & 5's or fatties that take shit from them and don't wear the pants in the relationship. Guys aren't just desperate to get good pussy at this point, they're desperate to get ANY pussy.

By contrast, for the most part the guys I see consistently able to fuck high talent girls, let alone keep one around as a girlfriend, are dudes who are pretty alpha and view her as totally replaceable. Unless they've fallen on some serious financial hardships I can't imagine a hot girl tolerating a beta dude.

The problem with an average guy (read: poor/beta/no game) who scores a hot chick that doesn't need much game (the only hot chick he could score) is that he is dependent on her whims. They are happy while she prefers his beta approach of writing sweet facebook messages and catering to her desires - and then what? What if her preferences change? And they sure do, even from as things as small as the ovulation cycle. He will be screwed.

That is why at least solid game is necessary even for chicks that don't require game.

Quote: (10-25-2013 12:45 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

Quote: (10-24-2013 06:01 PM)houston Wrote:  

I think a huge chunk of American guys that date good looking girls are at their mercy. The woman is in control of everything and the guys kiss their ass. Sure as hell aint a 50/50 relationship. theyre worried about losing that good pussy and bow down for it. Ratios are so fucked up in America and how many guys will try to talk to a hot girl outside of his circle? They latch onto that girl tight and treat it like a goldmine. Discuss.

From what I've seen, a guy dating a hot chick is way more likely to be alpha.

From what I'VE seen, guys dating a hot chick are extremely likely to be 6'3" and up. I see the height win stereotype over and over again. BUT then, I've seen so many buff, good looking guys with real flabby mediocrities that it proves the competition here is very tough. It's like being a chick in Russia.

@merenguero

I agree 100%. Seems like the quality has jumped recently. Was just talking to a friend about this. Hang out at Farragut square during lunch or p st whole foods at 630pm for endless line of bangable girls. Including more on the high end.

Better. Not great.

Every guy I know is dating down. They girlfriend up all fat and ugly bitches.

I do believe the hotter a girl is the more shit men tolerate. I'm past that point now. I call them out on their behavior. Ain't no pussy worth stressing over.

Quote: (10-24-2013 06:01 PM)houston Wrote:  

I think a huge chunk of American guys that date good looking girls are at their mercy. The woman is in control of everything and the guys kiss their ass. Sure as hell aint a 50/50 relationship. theyre worried about losing that good pussy and bow down for it. Ratios are so fucked up in America and how many guys will try to talk to a hot girl outside of his circle? They latch onto that girl tight and treat it like a goldmine. Discuss.

Since I'm European I can't discuss the specific dynamics over there.

But in general terms, cute chicks (6-7) often go for beta guys in relationships and thus are in control. Cute girls can become good-looking girls in our minds when the majority has become so unattractive. It's indeed doubtful that these girls will be dating alphas.

The really good-looking girls (8-9) will still be taken by alphas. Alphas don't care about the ratios because it doesn't affect them as much. Lose one, grab another.

When I look around in my city, I see the really hot girls dating alpha guys. They don't want guys that can't control their bullshit, and there's plenty of guys that have that take-it-or-leave-it attitude.

A lot less than before, perhaps. And the gap between the different men gets bigger, for sure. Relationship guys (betas) are fucked, they don't have control because they don't understand the mechanisms of getting control in this new world: asshole game. Player guys aren't fucked at all; they get the best of both girls. Their pick from girls that are repulsed by the majority of guys, and the possibility of relationships with the hottest girls.

I don't consider myself good looking.
But I have never dated down.
My gameless friends are confused how I pull the girls I pull.

Guys that date down are settling for way less.
Dating above you pay grade is just as easy said as it is done if you have the right tools

I know it sounds shallow but even with ONS as my target and just one or two dates on horizon, I still dont want to be seen in public with a girl that doesnt elevate my image. I dont know how guys are doing it for months and years in a relationship. But again we are all spoiled. Very spoiled.

Quote: (10-25-2013 12:45 AM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

Quote: (10-24-2013 06:01 PM)houston Wrote:  

I think a huge chunk of American guys that date good looking girls are at their mercy. The woman is in control of everything and the guys kiss their ass. Sure as hell aint a 50/50 relationship. theyre worried about losing that good pussy and bow down for it. Ratios are so fucked up in America and how many guys will try to talk to a hot girl outside of his circle? They latch onto that girl tight and treat it like a goldmine. Discuss.

From what I've seen, a guy dating a hot chick is way more likely to be alpha.

Most American guys are fully plugged into the feminist matrix, and in general are just pussy whipped losers of epic proportions. I see so many decent looking smart guys dating 4's & 5's or fatties that take shit from them and don't wear the pants in the relationship. Guys aren't just desperate to get good pussy at this point, they're desperate to get ANY pussy.

By contrast, for the most part the guys I see consistently able to fuck high talent girls, let alone keep one around as a girlfriend, are dudes who are pretty alpha and view her as totally replaceable. Unless they've fallen on some serious financial hardships I can't imagine a hot girl tolerating a beta dude.

Yeah Ive never seen a hot girl date down with a beta/ supplicating guy. In fact the only guy I'm friends with who is dating way up, (a 5 with an 8) almost constantly insults her and is basically a dick to her. Although, another of my friends who was dating up (5 to 6.5/7) sucked up to her constantly and even tolerated her cheating on him as he didn't feel he had other options, so I guess that it goes both ways.

EDIT: Remembered that one of my friends was dating a hotter girl last year and that he fit the general trend described by Houston.

The hottest girls, the 9s and 10s, almost always date exclusively alpha men. Always have, always will.

The problem we have now is a dearth of women in the 6-8 range, mostly due to the obesity epidemic. I can't tell you how many chicks I see every time I go out who would immediately add 2-3 points to their SMV if they just stopped stuffing their fucking faces.

The worst is when you see a girl with a really pretty face who is significantly overweight. The chick will be a 3-4 but has the potential to be a solid 8.5, but she'd rather eat ice cream every night.

Anyway, because so many girls in the high-middle range of attractiveness make the choice to fatten themselves up, the entire range of higher beta/lower alpha men who would normally be dating these girls happily are either forced to settle for one, or reject them and attempt to compete with the higher alphas for the 8+ girls. This is why you see so many seemingly solid dudes dating down. They just can't compete for the high end girls, and the pool of 6-8s is much smaller than it should be naturally.

Quote: (10-24-2013 10:37 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  

Quote: (10-24-2013 06:45 PM)slothpiece Wrote:  

I don't see many 8s in DC, so I have to control my thirst when I've found one for ONS and I keep pinging them for more.

I've seen more quality girls in the D.C. area in the past two months than I have ever seen here. It may very well be a fluke, because I don't see any other D.C. guys on here posting anything to that effect.

The student influx started in Aug / Sept. I have been seeing a fuck ton of talent in my neighborhood lately. Not at bars but walking. jogging, the market etc....

Quote: (10-24-2013 06:01 PM)houston Wrote:  

I think a huge chunk of American guys that date good looking girls are at their mercy.

I see things completely differently.

I have dated a few good looking girls this year. Due to insecurity and anxiety problems, our relationships were short. Still during that time, they would try to train me to become a more confident and self assured man. I did not realize they were doing this until I reflected on why things came to an end.

Good looking girls (where I live) do not want to be in control of a relationship. They do not want the man to be at their mercy.

They want to be lead by a confident man. They want a man who can make them feel, "As long as you are with me, everything will be alright."

Very few men nowadays can evoke that feeling, at least in America.

Quote: (10-25-2013 06:08 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

They just can't compete for the high end girls, and the pool of 6-8s is much smaller than it should be naturally.

The same could be said of men. I know we are complaining that there are less attractive girls around now, but the quality of men in America has had a significant drop off.

I pay attention to the kind of men that are around. The overall quality of men is as equally low as women.

How many men do you know work out consistently?
How many have a healthy diet?
How many consistently socialize with other people?
How many have a solid style?
How many men are able to have a basic normal conversation, particularly with women?

This is the big one.

How many men in America simply believe in themselves?

This is why so many solid dudes date down. They do not even believe that they are worth something.

Perception is reality.

Based on my observations, it's very rare for hot girls and hot guys to date each other after high school and college.

During the student years the hottest of both genders end up together because they roll in the same popular circles or frat system. Status is based largely on appearance.

But here in the professional real world it seems like a lot of good looking guys are dating average plain-looking women, and the hottest girls are dating plain or just outright older or uglier men - although they are "alpha" in other ways like money and status. The latter is understandable because as women get older they want a stable protector. The former situation, however, may just be an American phenomenon I'm not sure. It seems to be getting more common.

In fact this is getting to the point where I am actually surprised when I see a handsome guy and beautiful girl walking hand-in-hand. Maybe this is nature's way of keeping humans at an equilibrium?

Quote: (10-25-2013 06:47 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

I pay attention to the kind of men that are around. The overall quality of men is as equally low as women.

How many men do you know work out consistently?
How many have a healthy diet?
How many consistently socialize with other people?
How many have a solid style?
How many men are able to have a basic normal conversation, particularly with women?

I'm not denying that there are a ton of chode dudes walking around. The bottom 50% of the male population is pretty weak. But that's not who I was talking about. I was talking about upper betas and lower alphas, guys who should normally be dating their female counterparts, who are women in the 6-8 range lookswise.

A huge percentage of those women have turned themselves into 5s and below by putting on weight, a fact which makes their SMV plummet to a degree much greater than their male counterparts.

I mean, this is the entire basis of game in the West. You have to go out of your way to give the appearance of being an alpha man even for the chance of succeeding with 6-8 range women, simply because the pool of females in that range has shrunk so drastically, largely due to obesity.

Basically, there are a lot more guys who would be objectively rated 6-8 (in terms of looks, social skills, career, etc...) than there are girls. I believe this shortage, when combined with female hypergamy, explains why so many guys are dating down.

Quote: (10-24-2013 06:45 PM)Mr. Butterworth Wrote:  

my first thoughts on this.. it pretty much the same when you flip the script no?...

You're saying when ugly chicks have a high status guy, they hold on to him super tight, and do whatever they can to make sure he doesn't leave?

   

You fail to realize that the "ugly chick" who is ugly in absolute terms and by the world's standard, DOES NOT THINK SHE'S UGLY. She's a dime piece. This extra 50 lbs of fat around her stomach is just MORE TO LOVE.

She thinks she deserves this high status guy, and probably GREATER.

And guess what, her mentality, ways, and actions + culture + the typical good guy's upbringing means that she's RIGHT. And he believes her. And everyone around them reinforces it.

The only thing that the ugly chick has to be afraid of, is another chick horning in on her man.

WIA

One of the few places I've seen in North America where many guys date UP in terms of looks, is Miami.

But there's a variety of reasons why that wouldn't happen in a lot of other major cities.