I'm a skinny guy, always was, and still am.

But I've been going to the gym doing the 5x5 program and I've put on some mass. Really not a lot, maybe 5-10 lbs, which basically just made me a little less skinny.

Either way, I've been getting a lot more compliments from chicks. I'm not doing anything different game-wise, it's just much more common now that chicks will just tell me "you're cute".

To put this in perspective, about a year and a half ago, my BMI was at 19.5. At that level people would have legitimate concern over my health. They would comment "Oh my god you're so thin!" in an earnestly concerned way.

After not lifting but just eating more and doing some cardio, I got to about 21.5 BMI. The negative unprompted comments stopped, but I wasn't getting random compliments either.

Now I'm about 23 BMI. And chicks start telling me "you're cute" out of nowhere. My game has definitely not improved or anything, and I'm not dressing better. Really the same clothes just look better on me because my physique fills it out and my face looks less gaunt. In fact, I always have gotten comments on how I dress, but not how I look. "You're cute" definitely sounds better than "That's a nice jacket".

To be clear, I'm not cut, jacked, or anything like that. Just a little bit more filled out than before.

Either way, I was a skinny guy who doubted that working out would really change anything, and used that as an excuse not to hit the gym. I no longer believe that. Also I had a bit of an anti-jock complex from always being skinny and unathletic. Gotta get over that shit.

Also, before hitting the gym, I was doing lots of cardio and eating very caveman. It was a great way to stay thin and fit. I've recently begun eating lots more sweets, fast food, and other junk. $5 for two bic macs, hell yea. I don't really enjoy eating shitty food, I'd rather have salmon and broccoli (just did in fact), but the need to put on mass compels me to eat some junk in coordination with good food. Seems to be working.

Probably your face and dress sense is good, or at least way above your old physique.

Before your twig like build was an instant turn off to girls otherwise interested. Now these are on board too - yours to lose otherwise.

First level of lifestyle game = identify and correct core weaknesses (aesthetically, socially, cognitive...).. this is much harder than it sounds like since NO ONE will tell them to you - they have to be corrected by introspection and inferring from other people.

Once I broke 215 at probably 15% body fat it was a game changer. Girls would just giggle and touch repeatedly while talking. It's great to get compliments.

Muscles make a huge difference. So does body fat. I have gotten pretty good at knowing when my body fat is high enough that it starts reflecting in my face, because my cheeks start filling out.

It just makes so much sense to lift and do some other exercises regularly.

I can attest to this first hand. Was always super skinny, and tall which pronounced it even more. I was literally like 6'1, 145lbs for a loooooong time. Was always a good looking guy but like Norset said, the rail thin look is an instant turnoff and will automatically disqualify you even if you have the rest of your shit together.

Few years back I started to learn game, hit the gym and started eating and jumped up to 160. Then really started eating and working out and in about two years from then I bumped up to 185. A lot of it was definitely not clean at the time but have cleaned up my diet and cut my bmi down so now I look like a tall guy who is still on the thin side but has muscles and a decent build compared to a few years back.

The most common change in reactions from girls is that now when I see a cute chick on the street or in the store or wherever they always seem to give me a smile. Its not even sincere half the time, its almost like an auto response. Like they register an attractive guy and their auto pilot response is to smile which I find pretty interesting. Now that I have the rest of my life in check getting a girl is essentially an after thought. The hardest part is sorting through all the garbage to find something of value.

Quote: (06-14-2013 11:19 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

I'm a skinny guy, always was, and still am.

But I've been going to the gym doing the 5x5 program and I've put on some mass. Really not a lot, maybe 5-10 lbs, which basically just made me a little less skinny.

Either way, I've been getting a lot more compliments from chicks. I'm not doing anything different game-wise, it's just much more common now that chicks will just tell me "you're cute".

To put this in perspective, about a year and a half ago, my BMI was at 19.5. At that level people would have legitimate concern over my health. They would comment "Oh my god you're so thin!" in an earnestly concerned way.

After not lifting but just eating more and doing some cardio, I got to about 21.5 BMI. The negative unprompted comments stopped, but I wasn't getting random compliments either.

Now I'm about 23 BMI. And chicks start telling me "you're cute" out of nowhere. My game has definitely not improved or anything, and I'm not dressing better. Really the same clothes just look better on me because my physique fills it out and my face looks less gaunt. In fact, I always have gotten comments on how I dress, but not how I look. "You're cute" definitely sounds better than "That's a nice jacket".

To be clear, I'm not cut, jacked, or anything like that. Just a little bit more filled out than before.

Either way, I was a skinny guy who doubted that working out would really change anything, and used that as an excuse not to hit the gym. I no longer believe that. Also I had a bit of an anti-jock complex from always being skinny and unathletic. Gotta get over that shit.

Also, before hitting the gym, I was doing lots of cardio and eating very caveman. It was a great way to stay thin and fit. I've recently begun eating lots more sweets, fast food, and other junk. $5 for two bic macs, hell yea. I don't really enjoy eating shitty food, I'd rather have salmon and broccoli (just did in fact), but the need to put on mass compels me to eat some junk in coordination with good food. Seems to be working.

When I was in high school I weighed a good 140 pounds. I was scrawny as fuck, and this was attributed to my hippie sense of wanting to be a vegan. I had to step up my charm ten fold at this weight class because I was a tiny motherfucker.

I'm now 175 pounds, and when I'm not working I hit near 200 pounds. Interestingly enough, because my arms look bigger at 200 pounds, and my face still looks slim, I can play down the gut and get more compliments at that weight then at my more cut and muscular 175.

I believe that some men are meant to look more husky then others and when they do, they are more attractive to women.

If I'm coasting purely off looks, my 190 - 200 pound range gets me more love then my 175 range.

sounds like you've gained mass and women are taking notice, and that mass suits your body type and face more than you think.

How much of that has converted into lays?

WIA

Quote: (06-18-2013 10:29 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

How much of that has converted into lays?

WIA

I mean who can isolate it like that? Weight gain has been a gradual process over the last year or two.

I just got a new notch and my Dominican flag yesterday, off OKC, where we were texting but getting nowhere, then I chatted with her on skype and she mentioned how cute I was, then we met up and boned.

So there you go, I guess?

Who knows, maybe I could have fucked her at a lower weight class though. I did get laid when I was skinnier too.

I did the best game wise with girls in college when I weighed 6ft, 160lbs, and had 6% body fat.

Body fat definitely shows the mos in my face. Th higher it goes, the more rounded my face gets. At the time, I had a crazy chiseled jaw line but was mad tiny.

Now at 175 and probably 13-15% body fat, I command respect. People are more afraid of me instead of charmed by my small non-threatening appearance.

I probably was more charming at that point and over compensated for it since I was tiny. Now I just don't care. I really don't put much effort in charming anymore. I want to get to a point where it comes to me on a silver platter.

Laziness at its finest, need to get famous first.

I have never heard a muscular guy say, "Man, I wish I was scrawnier," or "Women don't even notice my muscles at all."

But you hear skinny guys all the time saying things like, "Muscles aren't that big of a deal," or "Girls prefer guys with the slim, cut look."

It's nonsense. Women naturally respond to a man who is big and strong. You don't have to look like Ronnie Coleman or The Rock, but having enough muscle mass that it becomes apparent you could easily manhandle them (and other guys as well) is always going to turn women on. Period.

Guys who deny the power of a muscular physique are no better than those who deny the power of game.

That girl at BMI 24 (normal) has fat legs and love handles.

Quote: (06-18-2013 12:30 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Quote: (06-18-2013 10:29 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

How much of that has converted into lays?

WIA

I mean who can isolate it like that? Weight gain has been a gradual process over the last year or two.

You titled the thread "many more compliments from girls".

If it were me, and chicks started to speak to me when a couple of weeks before they didn't, I'd take that as a sign to spit some game. And if I spit game at chicks that find me physically attractive, chances are greater that I'm going to convert.

If you aren't doing anything with those compliments, why mention it?

WIA

I've seen this happen to me. At my heaviest after a dirty bulk last summer I got the most attention from women. They would be more forward and direct in touching me and body language. My guess it's a mix of body stature, confidence, and the idea of how size traditionally = equals = wealth. Game is needed of course because there is a difference between a fat guy with and without game and it is way more pronounced in those situations.

For me what happend is that I did not like how big I was and regardless of the better attention from women I have to be comfy in my own skin I cut back down, way down to a low bf% and yes the overt touching was gone but I still got compliments on my physique. I am in the middle now and get a bit of both.

This is one area where men can't complain. Big or small if you have game and a swagger about you women will notice. The bigger guys I grew up with always worked harder for pussy and were always rewarded.

Quote: (06-18-2013 08:33 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Quote: (06-18-2013 12:30 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Quote: (06-18-2013 10:29 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

How much of that has converted into lays?

WIA

I mean who can isolate it like that? Weight gain has been a gradual process over the last year or two.

You titled the thread "many more compliments from girls".

If it were me, and chicks started to speak to me when a couple of weeks before they didn't, I'd take that as a sign to spit some game. And if I spit game at chicks that find me physically attractive, chances are greater that I'm going to convert.

If you aren't doing anything with those compliments, why mention it?

WIA

From my perspective:

It's easier to get laid if you're not spitting much game.

When I was skinnier, my verbal game was better.
And some girls just really dig tall, skinny guys for some reason.

Now my verbal game isn't as systematic (e.g. when to qualify, no routines).
Girls will come though, but it isn't as proactive.

Quick calculations shows that I fucked the majority of girls in the last year (while being buff) but there's a whole mix of reasons involved.

Lucky you. For me my bodyfat has to be really low to get an aesthetic face. Even a fairly average bf makes my face look chubby.

Interesting - a few years ago I bulked up by lifting heavy and eating loads of carbs. I got up to 13.5 stone. I then started cutting and have been cutting ever since, weigh 12.5 stone. Nowadays I look better with my clothes off (no homo) but I used to get eyefucked a lot more when I was bigger (I was fatter round the face too).

Quote: (06-18-2013 08:33 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

If you aren't doing anything with those compliments, why mention it?

WIA

Lol I already told you, these are compliments from chicks I'm gaming. Specifically, one I just fucked last week.

But like I said, shit, she might have fucked me anyway if I was skinny.

Having low body fat levels in my experience actually makes a lot more of a difference than muscles when it comes to attention from girls, as long as you're not rake thin of course. I suppose this probably varies a little individually though, but low body fat makes a huge difference to facial aesthetics. In fact, researchers have shown that women usually prioritise low body fat and skin tone before muscles when it comes to assessing male physical attractiveness. This is also in line with my experiences with European girls though, who don't seem to care that much about muscle mass as long as you're not sickly thin. The impression I'm getting of US girls from these forums and other places around the internet seems to be that big muscles in the US = high status.

Anyway I plan on starting at the gym soon to put on a bit of lean mass and I'm wondering if it's possible to bulk up a bit while remaining fairly cut, even if it's fairly inefficient?

Maintaining low body fat levels is a priority for me.

I've been getting gains as well over the last 3-4 months.

I like this thread because every increment of improvment does matter, and the gratification just makes you want to hit the gym harder, eat better, and improve every aspect of your look, style, and game.

Even just hitting the gym twice a week has been giving me noticeable results. I'm upping it to 3 a week and making extra notice of my protein intake. 200-250 grams is my current daily target. I'm over 190 lbs (6 foot 1) but just a few months ago was below 180. 2 whey shakes, a whole thing of chicken breast tenders, a can of red salmon, and then a sandwich. add avocadoes, salad, etc.

Also its funny, I used to rationalize skinny arms like "oh, it looks good, those big arms aren't what chicks dig".

Now I'm the opposite. I see dudes with skinny arms and I'm just like "damn that guy doesn't look good".

Now that I have the habit of lifting, it really makes me confused why more guys don't lift and do the diet. It doesn't take much time at all. 3 workouts a week is only 6 hours or even less in the gym. and the eating part isn't that hard either.

Yet the results come in. In 6 months you will get solid results, in two years, you've just put yourself way ahead competitively in the dating market, off of a lot less effort than a lot of PUA guys put in on approaches.

this is what i'm all about this summer. went from 165 to 175 in just under a month. i'm almost 6'1". i got my inspiration from book of pook.

basically the idea is to put work into yourself, instead of chasing women. and if you get big enough, for pook it was 195/205, magic starts to happen with no effort.

i don't know if that's plausible for me this summer (its not), already the gains have slowed significantly, but i hope to hit 185.

the 10 lbs by themselves have made a small change. not much, but people in general respond with noticeable respect now. at 165 i was in shape. at 175, people notice. guys (complete strangers) give me respectful nods all the time. girls don't eye-fuck me yet (like they did when i was a star athlete, they feel that shit), but they do maintain eye contact significantly more and make an effort to keep a conversation going that would otherwise be naturally dying out.

i'm looking forward to 185. i've always had an athletic, but slender build. i feel like 185 is the first level of 'normal' for my height. like, people wont think of me as lean and muscular anymore. just an average guy in super good shape.

my size is among my weakest links in game. not compared to money, but i am in law school, so i'm working on that too.

the funny thing is my last girlfriend who dumped me because i treated her poorly (because i got her in shape, and the power dynamic shifted as she got 100x more male attention, and my game didn't shift appropriately) told me that if i gained 20 lbs while she was in europe for the summer (didn't even have to be muscle, just size, including fat), she would have no choice but to take me back. and funny thing is, i know she was being honest. she just likes big dudes, like every very attractive woman... like over 6'4" and over 200 lbs kind of big. i was by far the smallest guy she dated seriously, and its because i have major game.

i'm just trying to get what i deserve. (not her, just a consistent, easier level of better pussy)

Quote: (06-22-2013 11:42 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I've been getting gains as well over the last 3-4 months.

I like this thread because every increment of improvment does matter, and the gratification just makes you want to hit the gym harder, eat better, and improve every aspect of your look, style, and game.

Even just hitting the gym twice a week has been giving me noticeable results. I'm upping it to 3 a week and making extra notice of my protein intake. 200-250 grams is my current daily target. I'm over 190 lbs (6 foot 1) but just a few months ago was below 180. 2 whey shakes, a whole thing of chicken breast tenders, a can of red salmon, and then a sandwich. add avocadoes, salad, etc.

Also its funny, I used to rationalize skinny arms like "oh, it looks good, those big arms aren't what chicks dig".

Now I'm the opposite. I see dudes with skinny arms and I'm just like "damn that guy doesn't look good".

Now that I have the habit of lifting, it really makes me confused why more guys don't lift and do the diet. It doesn't take much time at all. 3 workouts a week is only 6 hours or even less in the gym. and the eating part isn't that hard either.

Yet the results come in. In 6 months you will get solid results, in two years, you've just put yourself way ahead competitively in the dating market, off of a lot less effort than a lot of PUA guys put in on approaches.

as i get on this size journey, i notice i really have to plan out my meals in advance. i just stuffed myself ridiculously full every day for a while like it was my job, and gained the first 10 lbs in 2 weeks. the past 2 weeks i've just been struggling to maintain, but not for lack of appetite. it's a lot of work and time to prepare and eat that much food. any tips as i try to get past the 180 barrier?

Quote: (06-23-2013 01:01 AM)godofwar Wrote:  

Quote: (06-22-2013 11:42 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

I've been getting gains as well over the last 3-4 months.

I like this thread because every increment of improvment does matter, and the gratification just makes you want to hit the gym harder, eat better, and improve every aspect of your look, style, and game.

Even just hitting the gym twice a week has been giving me noticeable results. I'm upping it to 3 a week and making extra notice of my protein intake. 200-250 grams is my current daily target. I'm over 190 lbs (6 foot 1) but just a few months ago was below 180. 2 whey shakes, a whole thing of chicken breast tenders, a can of red salmon, and then a sandwich. add avocadoes, salad, etc.

Also its funny, I used to rationalize skinny arms like "oh, it looks good, those big arms aren't what chicks dig".

Now I'm the opposite. I see dudes with skinny arms and I'm just like "damn that guy doesn't look good".

Now that I have the habit of lifting, it really makes me confused why more guys don't lift and do the diet. It doesn't take much time at all. 3 workouts a week is only 6 hours or even less in the gym. and the eating part isn't that hard either.

Yet the results come in. In 6 months you will get solid results, in two years, you've just put yourself way ahead competitively in the dating market, off of a lot less effort than a lot of PUA guys put in on approaches.

as i get on this size journey, i notice i really have to plan out my meals in advance. i just stuffed myself ridiculously full every day for a while like it was my job, and gained the first 10 lbs in 2 weeks. the past 2 weeks i've just been struggling to maintain, but not for lack of appetite. it's a lot of work and time to prepare and eat that much food. any tips as i try to get past the 180 barrier?

It's only difficult if you have to be a number of places, or don't have a fridge to store food.

It's also not difficult to prepare. most of my meals are quick.

in case of emergency: bring a can of red salmon with you, a fork, and a can opener. find a sink, drain the fluid out and eat. that's 45+ grams of protein.

If you're just chillin in your apartment:

-chocolate gold standard whey mixed with milk. boom.

-put a full tray of chicken breast tenders in a pan (thinly sliced for quicker cooking). I don't even put butter on them. they cook super quick.

-can of black beans

-pre washed bagged greens from trader joe's. dump a few handfulls on a plate, ad salad dressing.


1 lb of chicken breast = 100g protein. each can of salmon is almost 50g. a whey scoop plus a tall glass of milk is 35g. Eggs, read meat. Shit just does not take that much time to make.

Getting good sources of fat like avocadoes is important as well. Cut with edge of a fork and just squeeze out the flesh. bam.

I have experienced the same thing. Earlier this year I weighed about 162, and I'm just under 5'11. I thought I was doing well both health wise and game wise for myself but nothing compared to the last month I've been back in the city.

After I left the city for 3 months and worked out harder to bulk up, I came back at 167.

Girls have opened me recently.
In the gym saying, "I like your tone."
Had a girl ask for my number last week. She was about a 5.75, and I didn't want to spend the money/effort on her. In retrospect I probably should have as she was an easy lay.

I think a significant part of the positive feedback has to do with it being SUMMER TIME IN THE CITY! You can wear tank tops without looking like you're tryharding, and the right tanks really draw some attention during the day. No matter how jacked you are in the winter here in NYC, everyone has a peacoat or leather jacket on. It's much harder for your muscle/work out game to pay off.

Are you measuring your "BMI" based on that chart?

Because I tought "19 BMI" meant that 19% of your body is made out of fat.

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