Quote: (04-17-2013 04:24 PM)haywire Wrote:  

Send her a dick pic.

What's her number? We should all send her dick pics. (Flaccid ones)

Dont beat yourself too much, we just cant fuck every single girl we meet. I have been there before. Reason why i dont like going on dates anymore, they can be a waste of time (unless she is down for drinking lots of alcohol).

Anyway, not too long ago, i took this girl to the cinema (actually i wanted to watch this movie so i didnt feel like i was trying to impress her), invited her back to my house, she told me ''we are not having sex''..i was like..''who said anything about sex?''..we were kissing in the cinema and shit..took her to my house..we started kissing like crazy..i am about to take my dick out..she tells me she will leave...i tell her to chill out..we kissing again..i try to go for the bang..she aint having it..she left..we met the next day again..and she wasnt down to fuck..did i do anything wrong? Nope..she had the problem. I deleted the number and moved on. Sometimes when you go too fast, they want you to go slow, when you go too slow, they want you to go fast. Sometimes they just aint down for fucking. They want to go on a date with you because they are bored and want to get out a bit more.

Just move on, you didnt do anything wrong.

I'm sick of dating too. Unless the girl is an entertaining companion, which only maybe 20% are, it's just a boring, tiresome, expensive experience.

The traditional courtship date is beta; the implication that you are trying to impress her and win her over with your provider attributes is inherent in its structure.

I'm trying to get away from them and do hang outs, cold approaches, online meetings almost entirely.

This topic is related to this thread http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-15569.html

Don't go on dates.

Quote: (04-17-2013 11:27 AM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

I never thought I would be starting one of these Alpha/Beta, but some recent situations made me think - is there any way to not be Beta on dates? It seems like whatever you're doing, even while subscribing to to "traditional" gender roles where you're masculine as fuck by taking the lead, you're still trying to impress a woman, which they hate, as we all know.


Here's some background:
Met a girl recently - super cute, perfect body, just turned 23, originally from Russia, but came to the USA when she was 10 (exactly like me).
Our date was incredible - we drank, made out, and practicably had 95% of stuff in common. If there was ever a time where a first date would lead to a 2nd - this was it.

But yesterday evening - I get the most generic brush off text in history of brush off texts - "Hey I've been thinking that it's probably best if we don't go out again, I'm in the middle of figuring out grad school and may be going away soon and it's just not smart, therefore I think it's best we just stay friends".

Now - I start thinking - where in this date did I go wrong? Physically - I was looking good that night, dressed well, plus I'm 6'2, so height has never been an issue. Work wise I've never come off as a chump, our conversation couldn't have gone any better. I picked the activities we did that night and took the lead in all of them. There were literally no holes in my game that night.


But that's when it hit me - all the shit I did - all the leading, grooming and game tightening was to impress this chick. There was simply none of the "I don't give a fuck" attitude that hot 23 year old girls crave and lust after.
And then I think - was it ever even established? Is it possible to establish? I met this girl because I hit on her. I went out with her because I got her number and then gave her a call. Moving the interaction forward was done entirely by me.

She had absolutely nothing to chase, because I was doing all the work, but I never would have gotten anywhere if I haven't done any of the work. This is the dilemma of modern dating.


So - RVF members - what could I have done better? What are some proven and tested ways to be more Alpha on dates and turn the element of "chasing" on her? Or should I just brush this off as a bad experience?

Well, firstly there is no figuring out why women brush you off. You could have saved a baby drowing and put out a fire that night and gotten a brush-off. And you could have pissed your pants and gotten a second date. I once ate something I was allergic to and threw up on a date (in the bathroom) yet got another. Who the fuck understands women?

That said, yeah dating signifies something different than it did years ago. Dating seems like a throwback to the days of '80s teen movies or something. The entire set-up is, in fact, Beta. Men and women haven't changed, but the paradigm in which we operate has, thanks to the ripples and unintended consequences of feminism.

The only end-runs to dating I can think of is meeting for a drink (which can morph into a date) or "Come back to my place and watch a movie." It sometimes comes down to the type of girl you go out with. I hate to say it, but my best success with a Russian woman was "Why don't you just come over now?" during a late-nite phone convo.

If she’s attractive, she could date rich guys if what she wants is to be impressed.

She most likely just wants a fun guy who gives her a good rough fucking.

Dating is a great way to improve one's ability with learning body language ques from women( great for less experienced guy like me) or to learn to calibrate better with women or to use the women you are dating to build a social connection to bang her hotter friends.
Other than that I don't see the point of dating.

There is so much good information in this thread. Thank you very much.

What especially connected with me was the "safety" thing. Which is a weird side effect of me trying to improve myself as much as possible - I have slowly become a better and better catch - and ironically that is making me like kryptonite to the hottest, youngest girls.

Thanks again!

Quote: (04-17-2013 11:27 AM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

plus I'm 6'2, so height has never been an issue.

If its not an issue, how come it be so important to you that you have to mention it?

Russian Height Troll is the new Indian Race Troll?

Quote: (04-17-2013 11:27 AM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

Here's some background:
Met a girl recently - super cute, perfect body, just turned 23, originally from Russia, but came to the USA when she was 10 (exactly like me).
Our date was incredible - we drank, made out, and practicably had 95% of stuff in common. If there was ever a time where a first date would lead to a 2nd - this was it.

What did your date entail?

What was so "incredible" about it.

Need more details to diagnose a possible problem.

Quote: (04-17-2013 12:15 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Been off and on on the forum lately been busy and trying to take a break but this thread just screams obvious.

Why are you guys spending thousands on suits if you're young?

Why are you guys going on dates when you can just go out and drink + dance + have sex with less than $50?

It makes no sense to court in America the environment doesn't need it. By courting you are then placing yourself into "boyfriend" territory instead of fuck buddy territory. No brainer.

This is also why you guys are going to see the same old tired young versus old guy game debates. When you are young you can't possibly be successful/worldy in the eyes of a young female on first glance because you look "immature".

Basically dates are for fools or for older guys trying to stick to a rotation. Just walk around and run "d-bag game" v-necks, henleys, wife beaters. When you begin looking mature go buy suits.

Just think about it logically why is there a debate on high end looks and young guys.

Here is why: young guys are seen as immature so you have to be fun and crazy "their worldview is not shattered" if you are boring you're done. If you are older and you try to run this game you will be blown out, just think about the six flags commercial of the old guy doing crazy dance moves it is retarded because he is old and "high energy".

With all that said any young guy on his forum needs to just lift some weights, run d-bag life of party fun guy game, then transfer to suits when he looks thirty.

All this does not require dates. Dates = raise expectations of the girl = waste of your own money and time.

I think there is a lot of truth in this post.

I never took girls out on "dates" when I was younger, unless a date ment going to the beach and smoking a jay.

Or smoking a jay at my crib.

I didn't lift regularly either, but I did surf and box.

Wifebeaters or no shirt most days. Or thermals (the original Henley, just to school you New Jacks. We have been doing this sh*t for a while, and innovated these moves you guys think you came up with.) But we didn't wear shirts with glitter on them like Ed Hardy shirts. Your generation gets all the credit for that.

Yeah, you just want to party when you are young and the girls come with that.

I guess it goes back to the lifestyle thing.

When you are older, you out grow that style, or maybe it out grows you.

Then you need to roll a higher level of the Game which is what I always talk about.

WestCoast, good job on detailing the differences.

Quote: (04-17-2013 11:27 AM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

Now - I start thinking - where in this date did I go wrong? Physically - I was looking good that night, dressed well, plus I'm 6'2, so height has never been an issue. Work wise I've never come off as a chump, our conversation couldn't have gone any better. I picked the activities we did that night and took the lead in all of them. There were literally no holes in my game that night.

sorry bro, it's because you're 6'2, everyone knows nobody under 6'4 gets laid. 3 inch shoe lifts are your only option.

Quote: (04-18-2013 12:18 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I think there is a lot of truth in this post.

I never took girls out on "dates" when I was younger, unless a date ment going to the beach and smoking a jay.

Or smoking a jay at my crib.

I didn't lift regularly either, but I did surf and box.

Wifebeaters or no shirt most days. Or thermals (the original Henley, just to school you New Jacks. We have been doing this sh*t for a while, and innovated these moves you guys think you came up with.) But we didn't wear shirts with glitter on them like Ed Hardy shirts. Your generation gets all the credit for that.

Yeah, you just want to party when you are young and the girls come with that.

I guess it goes back to the lifestyle thing.

When you are older, you out grow that style, or maybe it out grows you.

Then you need to roll a higher level of the Game which is what I always talk about.

WestCoast, good job on detailing the differences.

Where does my Zippo fit into all this? Can I carry it while wearing a vneck or henley, or do I need a Bic for that?

Quote: (04-18-2013 01:23 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

Quote: (04-18-2013 12:18 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I think there is a lot of truth in this post.

I never took girls out on "dates" when I was younger, unless a date ment going to the beach and smoking a jay.

Or smoking a jay at my crib.

I didn't lift regularly either, but I did surf and box.

Wifebeaters or no shirt most days. Or thermals (the original Henley, just to school you New Jacks. We have been doing this sh*t for a while, and innovated these moves you guys think you came up with.) But we didn't wear shirts with glitter on them like Ed Hardy shirts. Your generation gets all the credit for that.

Yeah, you just want to party when you are young and the girls come with that.

I guess it goes back to the lifestyle thing.

When you are older, you out grow that style, or maybe it out grows you.

Then you need to roll a higher level of the Game which is what I always talk about.

WestCoast, good job on detailing the differences.

Where does my Zippo fit into all this? Can I carry it while wearing a vneck or henley, or do I need a Bic for that?

Always Zippo for cigarettes.

But back then I used Strike AnyWhere Matches too.

Quote: (04-18-2013 01:41 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

But back then I used Strike AnyWhere Matches too.

I often use Pink Pony match books and people usually will offer a lighter when they see me pull out the match book. I guess they figure it's a lot of work to strike a match.

Just carry a pen vaporizer and pack it with weed. Don't even need a lighter.

Like this: http://ourweed.com/tag/portable-vaporizer/

Then tell the girl "lets go smoke out".

Gadgets like this are cool if you're young. Carrying around weird quirky stuff looks dumb if you're older. It works, it's cheap, it's easier for her to agree to go to your place. Just put it in your pocket.

Quote: (04-17-2013 03:18 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

Russian girls=my Everest for life. Just getting started. I trust what you guys are saying about their difficulty and hard shells.

So I met a hot girl from Yekaterinburg on Saturday (moved here three years ago, student, 8/9). She was the typical Russian hottie, tall, super thin, nice tits (maybe even implants?), and she had braces which I made fun of her about. Texted her last night:

Me: "Hey it's presidentcarter from Moe's Tavern what's up"
Her (3 hours later): "Hey Kyle, sorry just saw your msg, was on training, how are you?"
Me: "Just left the office hah" (worked til midnight last night)
Me: "What are you training for"
Her: "Capoeira, I'm sorry, have to go to sleep, talk to you later"

She is wondering why you want to be her girlfriend.

Who texts a chick just to talk to her?

This is not how a man behaves, this is how a schoolboy with too much free time and a mild infatuation behaves. Sounds like you were hugging your pillow the night before dreaming about your white wedding and the children you would have together.

Dating is not dead, you guys just put too much value in it. If the girl is there, she likes you, relax. Now after you relax, realise that there are millions more like her and you dont need to impress her. Just let her tag along with you, flirt with her and get to know the broad.

You know for all the talk of game, it sounds like the simple basics are not being followed.

And FFS, pick up a phone man. This texting bullshit is a cop out. There are 20 other faggots who text her because they dont have the balls to phone her and risk the rejection. Its not about contacting her only, its about qualifying the bitch and seeing if she is worth the time.

If a woman likes you she will want to speak to you. I can hear it in her voice half the time if she has been thinking about fucking me.

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Quote: (04-17-2013 03:18 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

Russian girls=my Everest for life. Just getting started. I trust what you guys are saying about their difficulty and hard shells.

So I met a hot girl from Yekaterinburg on Saturday (moved here three years ago, student, 8/9). She was the typical Russian hottie, tall, super thin, nice tits (maybe even implants?), and she had braces which I made fun of her about. Texted her last night:

Me: "Hey it's presidentcarter from Moe's Tavern what's up"
Her (3 hours later): "Hey Kyle, sorry just saw your msg, was on training, how are you?"
Me: "Just left the office hah" (worked til midnight last night)
Me: "What are you training for"
Her: "Capoeira, I'm sorry, have to go to sleep, talk to you later"

She is wondering why you want to be her girlfriend.

Who texts a chick just to talk to her?

This is not how a man behaves, this is how a schoolboy with too much free time and a mild infatuation behaves. Sounds like you were hugging your pillow the night before dreaming about your white wedding and the children you would have together.

Uh ok? You read way too much into that if you thought that was "texting a girl just to talk to her".

Not sure how 2-3 texts of the "what's up" variety is like "hugging a pillow" but I've found that works a lot better than texting two days after first meeting someone with "lets meet up". It seems to disarm the girl a bit.

It goes something like this:

"hey its xxx what's up"
"oh hey! nothing I'm just blah blah blah"
"cool. so let's do xxx tomorrow night"

I do agree that a call is superior though.

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Quote: (04-17-2013 03:18 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

Russian girls=my Everest for life. Just getting started. I trust what you guys are saying about their difficulty and hard shells.

So I met a hot girl from Yekaterinburg on Saturday (moved here three years ago, student, 8/9). She was the typical Russian hottie, tall, super thin, nice tits (maybe even implants?), and she had braces which I made fun of her about. Texted her last night:

Me: "Hey it's presidentcarter from Moe's Tavern what's up"
Her (3 hours later): "Hey Kyle, sorry just saw your msg, was on training, how are you?"
Me: "Just left the office hah" (worked til midnight last night)
Me: "What are you training for"
Her: "Capoeira, I'm sorry, have to go to sleep, talk to you later"

She is wondering why you want to be her girlfriend.

Who texts a chick just to talk to her?

This is not how a man behaves, this is how a schoolboy with too much free time and a mild infatuation behaves. Sounds like you were hugging your pillow the night before dreaming about your white wedding and the children you would have together.

Dating is not dead, you guys just put too much value in it. If the girl is there, she likes you, relax. Now after you relax, realise that there are millions more like her and you dont need to impress her. Just let her tag along with you, flirt with her and get to know the broad.

You know for all the talk of game, it sounds like the simple basics are not being followed.

And FFS, pick up a phone man. This texting bullshit is a cop out. There are 20 other faggots who text her because they dont have the balls to phone her and risk the rejection. Its not about contacting her only, its about qualifying the bitch and seeing if she is worth the time.

If a woman likes you she will want to speak to you. I can hear it in her voice half the time if she has been thinking about fucking me.

This is tough love from the Hooligan.

But this is what makes him one of the best posters on here line for line and rhyme for rhyme.

Quote:Quote:

Its not about contacting her only, its about qualifying the bitch and seeing if she is worth the time.

If you understand this simple sentence, then you have graduated.

You now understand Game.

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:23 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Quote: (04-17-2013 03:18 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  

Russian girls=my Everest for life. Just getting started. I trust what you guys are saying about their difficulty and hard shells.

So I met a hot girl from Yekaterinburg on Saturday (moved here three years ago, student, 8/9). She was the typical Russian hottie, tall, super thin, nice tits (maybe even implants?), and she had braces which I made fun of her about. Texted her last night:

Me: "Hey it's presidentcarter from Moe's Tavern what's up"
Her (3 hours later): "Hey Kyle, sorry just saw your msg, was on training, how are you?"
Me: "Just left the office hah" (worked til midnight last night)
Me: "What are you training for"
Her: "Capoeira, I'm sorry, have to go to sleep, talk to you later"

She is wondering why you want to be her girlfriend.

Who texts a chick just to talk to her?

This is not how a man behaves, this is how a schoolboy with too much free time and a mild infatuation behaves. Sounds like you were hugging your pillow the night before dreaming about your white wedding and the children you would have together.

Uh ok? You read way too much into that if you thought that was "texting a girl just to talk to her".

Not sure how 2-3 texts of the "what's up" variety is like "hugging a pillow" but I've found that works a lot better than texting two days after first meeting someone with "lets meet up". It seems to disarm the girl a bit.

It goes something like this:

"hey its xxx what's up"
"oh hey! nothing I'm just blah blah blah"
"cool. so let's do xxx tomorrow night"

I do agree that a call is superior though.

Again with the texting.

I did not read too much into it. Im being honest with you. You are dealing with women, which means anything indirect or soft is going to be interpreted based on her FEELINGS at that particular moment in time. You have zero control over the outcome.

When you phone, the simple tone of your voice is enough to change her mood or perception. Its a massive part in any communication.

Why are you having to disarm women too? They want to be chased a bit. Its nothing more than a front.

Your little opening sounded like you were on the verge of launching into a long conversation about her day with a ton of silly little jokes that goes on for hours. Thats why she cut you off like that. She basically told you to fuck off.

If she is fresh off the boat, she saw your shit as weak too. They have zero tolerance or patience for men who have the time or inclination to spend their time doing what you were possibly going to be doing.

Honestly, all this talk of Alpha/Beta is ridiculous when half the forum is constantly texting women or using social media. This shit is a way out for men who have been afraid of approaching women in the past. You lump yourself into the same category of spineless wimps by default when you match their behavior.

You should not be texting women you have not fucked yet.

Texting is a habit and to be honest you're right. I was brought up on phone game and when I was getting blow jobs almost daily as a 15-16 year old I overlooked the fact that I'd called those girls first.

As a matter of best practice, I'll making calling the default.

I just woke up, I went to work, I sat down at my desk, I got to work (checking the forum).

This was the first thread I checked..

Hooligan Harry is single-handedly taking this forum to the next level..

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

She is wondering why you want to be her girlfriend.

Who texts a chick just to talk to her?

This is not how a man behaves, this is how a schoolboy with too much free time and a mild infatuation behaves. Sounds like you were hugging your pillow the night before dreaming about your white wedding and the children you would have together.

Wow.

This is a breathe of fresh air.

My day is off to a great start!

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Dating is not dead, you guys just put too much value in it.

Preach Harry!

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

This texting bullshit is a cop out. There are 20 other faggots who text her because they dont have the balls to phone her and risk the rejection.

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

If a woman likes you she will want to speak to you. I can hear it in her voice half the time if she has been thinking about fucking me.

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

When you phone, the simple tone of your voice is enough to change her mood or perception. Its a massive part in any communication.

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Why are you having to disarm women too? They want to be chased a bit. Its nothing more than a front.

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Your little opening sounded like you were on the verge of launching into a long conversation about her day with a ton of silly little jokes that goes on for hours.

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Honestly, all this talk of Alpha/Beta is ridiculous when half the forum is constantly texting women or using social media. This shit is a way out for men who have been afraid of approaching women in the past.

Quote: (04-18-2013 09:12 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

You should not be texting women you have not fucked yet.

Beautiful.

I don't know what else to say..!?!

I have been sensing for a while that texting is weak.

EVERYBODY DOES IT! Every guy that gets her number is texting her. Thats usually I good time to do something different.

Is it harder? Yes.

Is it more risky? Yes

Does it require stronger game? Yes

It's more powerful.

One bad conversation or one bad voice message can really lower your value. But, like anything in life, if you want big rewards, you have to take big risks.

From a training standpoint, calling is way better because it forces you to speak spontaneously. Spontaneous wit, humor, and verbal grace is the core of good game. Calling forces us to use these skills. Calling sharpens these skills.

If you can call with power, texting is easy.

Try it. You will lose some girls in the short term. But, in the long term, you will gain exactly what you are looking for.

Game.

Life is cyclical. Things come and go. New becomes old. Old becomes new.

I knew I could sense something..

Calling is Back!

Young cats listen to this song it's how it was.

I do advocate text because it's fun for me to troll bitches but when it's somewhat important I call.

I like to call because it puts the girl on the spot when I ask her out.

When you text, the girl has way too much time to hamsterize all the reasons why she shouldn't go out with you.

It could be she likes you too but is scared about where it will go. You could send a short text saying something like "that's too bad!"

and then call her in a week or two and go for d2. She may well contact you in that time if she really is interested. (gives her time to chase) Sounds like a kind of shit test to me.

I'm waiting for the "Is fucking hot broads beta" thread.

Should be here any day now.