I watched this video and was thinking if going to universities is a good idea at all?

Universities manufacture insane people on industrial scale everyday.

Quote: (03-06-2019 12:14 PM)IronShark Wrote:  

I watched this video and was thinking if going to universities is a good idea at all?

Universities manufacture insane people on industrial scale everyday.

Funny to watch the manosphere turn slowly against formal higher education.
That system of higher education has been the jewel in the crown of the United States for almost 70 years.
Every year, hundreds of thousands of immigrants arrive here with the intention of sending their children to our university system. That's what we're KNOWN for across the world.
Compare our universities with universities in Brazil or Argentina or elsewhere, and there's no competition. Our universities outspend, outstaff, outmanage, outteach, and outclass them in almost every metric.

The complaint is the ballooning COST. That is undeniably true, especially if there's no pot of gold after graduation to help you pay off those loans. Higher education is in a bubble, and it's going to pop.

-fin

Joe Rogan had those on his show, it was a good episode.

But the first one I discovered in the manosphere was Aaron Clarey, he has been talking about this for a while and has written a book on the matter.
Basically the tldr version of it is that unless it's STEM, health care or you're going to be among the best in law - don't bother because pretty much everything else is pretty worthless. And I would say that even with the things he listed to be good enough fields to study in Uni, there's still a questionable cost-benefit matter to it.

But check him out on Youtube.

Quote: (03-06-2019 01:06 PM)No More Mr. Soy Boy Wrote:  

Joe Rogan had those on his show, it was a good episode.

But the first one I discovered in the manosphere was Aaron Clarey, he has been talking about this for a while and has written a book on the matter.
Basically the tldr version of it is that unless it's STEM, health care or you're going to be among the best in law - don't bother because pretty much everything else is pretty worthless. And I would say that even with the things he listed to be good enough fields to study in Uni, there's still a questionable cost-benefit matter to it.

But check him out on Youtube.

High Ed like many avenue of life in the US has succumbed to the mentality of milking every last dime of nickel out of the population. Universities increase cost to take advantage of student loans. Certification has gone wild for having every specialty in variety of industries to get into an entry level jobs. It mess that will not get better as no one wants to stop the gravy train.

From personal experience, STEM and healthcare are not doing so well either. Lot of position now need certification next to your 4 year degree or 1-2 year experience to get your foot in the door. Depending on when and where you got your education, you may not get the right training or experience that employers are looking for. In Medicine there is glut of medical students looking to start residency, but the number of spots have remind the same for the past 20-30 years. Add in the dubious workloads of certain programs, you may end up with burned out doctors at the end of the training period.

It is, but like any fraud it requires stupid people to sign up and waste their lives and money via their free will.

Yes generally speaking. My background: Spent 7 years in the food industry and graduated from a degree that has a low unemployment rate supposedly. Disclaimer: I am a bit jaded at my school for taking my money and running. With that being said I don't mind helping people. The root cause of the problem is extending higher education to dumbasses. Yes, people go to school for stupid reasons like English or European literature. Couple that with our elders and society telling us that college is the only path to success and you will have crazy orgies everyday and you can see why people view higher education (OP calls it academic system but I broaden this term) as a scam. Only caveat is like some people have said is STEM and healthcare and even then I agree times are changing and those fields might not be worth it. Anybody making a lifechanging decision needs to sit down and think and I hope my post can help.

Finding mentors
Find someone about 5 years older than you and ask for his/her advice. If you talk to a guy that's 70 years old with an Ivy league education telling you college is only 5K and you will meet a good girl RUN!

Bernie Sanders
Old crazy kook that has failed in life that calls for free college when there's too many graduates pouring coffee. When you cater to the stupid with calls like this it really makes you wonder why support a higher education system.

Does multiple degrees help?
It depends. I know at least one person that falls in this category (this person has an engineering background by the way) and he has a hard time finding a job in their field it shows you how predatory higher education is. I've filled out surveys before and have bumped into a guy with multiple degrees arguing that safe spaces are fine in college even though he supports free speech. You tell me how stupid his assertion is (college isn't for geniuses anymore) and why someone with multiple degrees is filling out surveys for cash.

High school versus college degree income gap BS:
This is bullshit. While not everybody can be the next Bill Gates (he succeeded because he's a white male!!), Lebron, Kanye, etc if you have the drive, life experience, desire to learn new skills, thick skin, and ability to self reflect you will succeed in life in your own way. Causation doesn't imply correlation.

Is culinary school worth it?
NO! I've worked with plenty of culinary students that are either working middle management jobs (50-60K per year) or are working dead end line cook jobs. I worked with somebody who got to work with plenty of college graduates not using their degree and she told me she's going to culinary school. Anybody that can't look up cooking videos on youtube is a moron.

Is getting a CDL worth it?
Kind of. Correct me if I'm wrong but truck driving comes with fine line printing where you have to maintain the truck. That's where that 80K per year job quickly reduces your income. This career IMO is only worth it to break into oil. Even then with self driving cars coming into play this industry might not be lucrative years down the line.

Is coding school worth it?
I don't have experience in this but if you have the IQ and drive for this probably. Off the top of my head 10K-15K in 3 months to make roughly 50K+ is a smart investment compared to a school that milks you for 20K per year for 4 years.

Workforce assistance programs
Consider applying to these programs if you qualify. Some places will teach you how to weld for free in 3-4 months.

Do you go to college to party?
I bumped into a 18 year old in Vegas months ago and I told him he's smart for going this route. Get chicks out of your system and if you think the time is right to go to college then do it. People think you go to college for a crazy party experience but you can do one better by traveling or living in a party city.

Just my 2c. I'm now in a better place after spending 7 long years in retail/food with a bachelors. If you're on the fence with going to higher education all I can say is do your research.

It requires boomer parents who want bragging rights about sending their kids to college. The major itself is often an afterthought. Hell, SAT scores don't mean what they used to mean and often are not even required. Need we discuss the nakedly political "diversity " set asides?

Sending everyone to college is like sending everyone to the Olympics, calling them champions and giving them each a participation trophy. Deep down, parents probably suspect it's a sham, but nobody will push for changes. "Not my kids! I want "the best" for them - without a clear understanding of what "the best " even means.

But there's no talking to parents - particularly white ones - as they cite woeefully outdated and hackneyed statistics about how much more money a degree will bring. While true by default back around 1982, ignoring the sunstantial demographic and economic shifts since then make going into debt over a the general sense that "no college = loser" an expensive exercise in ego boosting.

At today's prices, unless you are in a degree program that you know will have a booming industry with good salaries when you get out, forget it.

And that is if your parents are paying for it. Might be better to get them to buy you a rental property and you could learn to be a landlord as you go.

It made sense for the boomers because it was cheap, so if you wasted time or money you were still okay.

Nowadays, you could easily end up a hundred thousand dollars or more in debt with nothing to show for it.

And that is a hell of a burden to put on a twenty three year old.

It sucks that so many businesses will only hire college graduates, because what this is really is a submissiveness test.

He did what he was told for four years, he's our kind of guy.

^^

"It sucks that so many businesses will only hire college graduates, because what this is really is a submissiveness test. "

Hilarious. At one of the employers I had to drive out for 20 miles they initially told me it was one interview and they knew that I had no work experience from my degree. Takes 1 second to look at my resume. They knew I wanted xyz as my starting income. One week later they tell me it will be 2 more interviews. Any kind of business that wastes valuable time on interviewing a "questionable" candidate as well as needs to conduct 2 more rounds to access personality and fit is bound to fail. Naive younger me would have played their stupid game and see them reduce my starting income. Jaded me said Buh bye ungrateful bastards I got other interviews that won't ring me around!

This is what I mean by life experience. Your employer ain't your friend if they can replace you with a robot or a gimmegrant you're out of luck.

If there's anything that I noticed about education, it's that your career keeps unofficially starting earlier and earlier.

If you want to get into front office finance, your career starts the day you step into 9th grade because your job is dependent on what college you go to and getting recruited out of there. Your career these days at a minimum starts your senior year of high school when you are applying to schools and understanding which industries and companies recruit out of there.

You don't necessarily have to study STEM, if you want to go into PR/HR/Marketing/Sales then you have to separate yourself from the pack of dumb kids majoring in that. You have to show passion for whatever field you want to go in by creating/joining campus clubs and groups, internships, honor societies, etc. College alone isn't enough to get those types of jobs.

One thing that I've noticed is that Indian and Asian parents seem to have a much better grip on what majors/colleges are required for the modern job market while whites are half clueless. Even my father who worked middle management in F500 for his whole life was completely in the dark on what was required to get jobs in the modern workplace.

I majored in liberal arts, had no worthwhile connections or mentors and am probably the most financially successful of all my classmates but that's because I by default chose the one career that I could kill it with my background-sales. I basically got all of my information from the internet and cold-emailing random people on Linkedin, then made a career plan from there. Career wise I am still behind the guys my age who majored in professional sales and got recruited to graduate training programs to top tech companies right out of college.

High school seniors should enter college with a plan to get recruited for a specific industry and go into their last semester of college with a job offer on the table, nothing less. To do so otherwise is a foolish endeavor that unfortunately many well meaning and successful whites choose.

^^

+1 Graft

Wish I could rep you again. You develop your political capital, connections, skills earlier on. I can name an exboss of mine of worked for his dad's company when he was 14 and that developed his work ethic, political capital, etc. While he did go to college he most likely didn't go into debt. Having intelligent parents does play a role in all this but outdated high school versus college studies doesn't highlight this.

Quote: (03-06-2019 06:31 PM)ChicagoFire Wrote:  

^^

+1 Graft

Wish I could rep you again. You develop your political capital, connections, skills earlier on. I can name an exboss of mine of worked for his dad's company when he was 14 and that developed his work ethic, political capital, etc. While he did go to college he most likely didn't go into debt. Having intelligent parents does play a role in all this but outdated high school versus college studies doesn't highlight this.

It's truly the underrated factor in all of this. Ability to pay for college is truly not as big of a deal because 40-60k in loans is nothing if you graduate and enter a high paying career where you make six figs off the bat. I remember the moment when I realized that my father was nowhere near as knowledgable and connected as he claimed to be and having to start from square one when I was already a few years out of college. Tough times that would have been made easier if I had the right mentors early and didn't listen to bullshitters in low paying industries.

Even if your parents aren't knowledgable, it's key that a young guy finds a mentor early-either a parent from their town or an older college student. Unfortunately a lot of guys from more modest towns don't have this so it comes down to your resourcefulness on the internet and whether you can find something like my sales datasheet.

I've always felt that RVF lacked big time in career/school advice so I'm glad we're having these discussions. I've also thought about setting up my own career coaching practice. A lot of these guys that charge $200 an hour are completely full of shit and just give general resume/interview advice with some personality tests while I can give highly specific advice to the tech sales industry based on my years of pure trial and error.

Post secondary is a big scam, but not in the way that most of you probably think. Yes the degree itself is worthless in many fields but the true scam is that these schools operate like businesses except they're tax free and more profitable than most businesses in the world. Watch this vid

If I had a teenage kid in the UK or US I would heavily advise them against going to university unless they 1) get a full free ride scholarship or 2) are doing a degree that has a very well defined career path coming out of it - medicine, engineering, whatever. Fees are just completely out of control. Coming out of college at age 22 with $80-200k in debt is just not worth it for a liberal arts degree.

In mainland Europe or other places with free third level education its definitely still worth doing just for the college experience, though. The cost/benefit equation changes massively. If you leave college at age 22 with no debt, but only a degree in English and Philosophy, you'll at least have had an amazing 4 years, improved your employability slightly, and increased your range of knowledge.

I really feel bad for kids these days.

Not only is college overpriced, but the indoctrination is over the top. I don't remember any of that stuff when I was in college. I look back at college as some of the best times in my life. Going out drinking with friends and hooking up with women. These days you do enough of that you are rolling the dice on a false rape charge.

We knew everyone in our apartment complex. Many weekends we would pull together funds for a keg and end up in water fights throughout the halls. I'm surprised that I even was able to finish and get my degrees. haha

It's a shame. The college experience should be more than just taking classes.

Yes. Top to bottom.

It was the most pointless experience of my life, jumping from english lit to history to political science to economics and ending up with nothing but contempt the whole system.

I should have quit after six months when I realized it was a conformity factory but I didn't want to disappoint my mom. Eventually I did anyway and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Luckily here we don't pay nearly as much - well, at least not directly - so no debt but it was two years of wasting time with nothing to show for it.

Might be a good deal for STEM but even then I don't know. I always hated schooling and, despite my hopes, college was even worse than what came before.

Quote: (03-07-2019 02:04 PM)ilostabet Wrote:  

It was the most pointless experience of my life, jumping from english lit to history to political science to economics and ending up with nothing but contempt the whole system.

I should have quit after six months when I realized it was a conformity factory but I didn't want to disappoint my mom. Eventually I did anyway and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Luckily here we don't pay nearly as much - well, at least not directly - so no debt but it was two years of wasting time with nothing to show for it.

Might be a good deal for STEM but even then I don't know. I always hated schooling and, despite my hopes, college was even worse than what came before.

If you always hated schooling, why did you even go to college?
It's like me shouting about how I always hated grapefruit, so then against my better judgment I spent two years paying thousands of dollars to eat grapefruit because my mother always dreamed of me eating grapefruit.
You should've left grapefruit to those who actually like it.

Quote: (03-07-2019 07:04 AM)zatara Wrote:  

If I had a teenage kid in the UK or US I would heavily advise them against going to university unless they 1) get a full free ride scholarship or 2) are doing a degree that has a very well defined career path coming out of it - medicine, engineering, whatever. Fees are just completely out of control. Coming out of college at age 22 with $80-200k in debt is just not worth it for a liberal arts degree.

In mainland Europe or other places with free third level education its definitely still worth doing just for the college experience, though. The cost/benefit equation changes massively. If you leave college at age 22 with no debt, but only a degree in English and Philosophy, you'll at least have had an amazing 4 years, improved your employability slightly, and increased your range of knowledge.

Well said.
The reason I was able to study the liberal arts was my four-year full-ride scholarship.
Without that, doubtful I would've followed my current path.
And I do agree that too many people take up the liberal arts who shouldn't be there. It's not for the faint of heart or weak of mind, based on how much you've got to scramble after college to find employment.
If I had my druthers, I'd take every undecided kid and force him/her to either 1) teach math to middle school and high school kids, or 2) enter nursing. There are major shortages in both those fields. Financial analysis also needs more workers.
Liberal arts should be one of those don't-do-it type of majors, and if you're bullheaded enough to ignore everybody's warnings, then you're driven enough to make a living out of it.
BTW tons of universities are paring back or killing their anthropology/archaeology programs for these very reasons -- the impossibility of employment after graduation.

I went because I thought college would be fun, interesting and useful. Then I didn't want to disappoint my mom when I found it wasn't.

I went because where I come from, that's just the natural step after high-school and if you don't go you are kind of considered a loser. I went in state, so it was cheap and my parents paid for it so I didn't care. Had some fun times, met some life long friends, learned some pre-Red Pill game concepts from trial and error, and I got a decent first job from a career fair. Unfortunately my degree is pretty worthless unless I want to go to grad school and thankfully since I got into sales I'm not bad off like some folks are. I would definitely advise guys to go in with a plan, nowadays the internet/coding/trade schools college just insn't necessary for a lot of folks. And it has been mentioned how it is getting more expensive and is basically a huge indoctrination center.

Hello guys, 2nd post here on this forum.

I absolutely agree and feel that college is a scam and i'm unfortunately stuck right in the middle of it.
I only went in because i didn't really think about my future life plan all that much, and its what my parents expected of me to be a "good middle class professional". I thought i could have the willpower to swallow this back in the day, although i'm not really sure now.

I'm 3rd year now and i enrolled in a double degree of Law and Finance. I failed a few units, and really only last year did i fully embrace the "red pill" after i had other cringe life problems with women that peaked, where i seriously thought about suicide and life didn't feel like it was worth living. Glad to say that's all sorted now.

I dropped Law which is a massive relief in terms of time and money.

I'm still stuck in the middle of my finance degree and i'd drop it, but my parents have gone hysterical at me even suggesting that and went borderline psychotic when i dropped Law. I have Slav parents and i know they'd instantly disown me and call me a "loser" (so I lose any form of connection with other Slav family or friends in the west or elsewhere) because it doesn't fit in their dumb boomer conceptions of being a generic and respectable middle class 9-5 wage slave. My parents did seem kinda desperate for me to finish college as my dad literally begged me to, "Please just finish college, I really don't care what you do in life after that".

Finance is a small industry where one of my based Asian tutors literally and honestly said that "employment is all about who you know, not what you know". University isn't inherently hard or difficult, its really mostly reciting and repeating shit they cram you with back to them in tests/exams. Its just tedious and annoying to study something you have a strong boredom or aversion towards, so i literally just find myself not having studied anything, even though i'm in the middle of my semester right now.

For now, i'm just probably going to stick with it to make my parents happy and get out of here ASAP, because if i don't I'll be stuck for more than the 2 years i'm already set to be without any fails. I don't even have any of my own private online business income to defy them with yet (I'll have to leave my parents house, because I'm 110% getting expelled if i drop out), so i have no choice but to stick with it and failing anything until i have my own income is really the worst option for me right now. Partly, i feel like I may as well finish it because it would be a massive waste of time and money not to.

Hopefully, my niche site will succeed (I need to put more work in that as well) sooner rather than later and get enough permanent income to leave the west.

Btw, Academic Freedom is literally the biggest joke ever LOLOLOL. Its literally just a bunch of "academics" circle jerking each other by citing themselves into infinity where they all basically think the same shit. In order for any paper that a student writes to pass and be legitimate, you have to cite one member of the countless "Academic Community" or more accurately, the Cuck Gang.

Quote: (03-15-2019 08:57 AM)KnjazMihailo Wrote:  

I'm still stuck in the middle of my finance degree and i'd drop it, but my parents have gone hysterical at me even suggesting that and went borderline psychotic when i dropped Law. I have Slav parents and i know they'd instantly disown me and call me a "loser" (so I lose any form of connection with other Slav family or friends in the west or elsewhere) because it doesn't fit in their dumb boomer conceptions of being a generic and respectable middle class 9-5 wage slave. My parents did seem kinda desperate for me to finish college as my dad literally begged me to, "Please just finish college, I really don't care what you do in life after that".

Finance is a small industry where one of my based Asian tutors literally and honestly said that "employment is all about who you know, not what you know". University isn't inherently hard or difficult, its really mostly reciting and repeating shit they cram you with back to them in tests/exams. Its just tedious and annoying to study something you have a strong boredom or aversion towards, so i literally just find myself not having studied anything, even though i'm in the middle of my semester right now.

Bro, your Asian tutor has no idea what he's talking about.
Finance is one of the top 5 growing fields in the United States.
https://www.moneycrashers.com/5-great-ca...he-future/
It has nothing to do with who you know. Here in Chicago low-level finance jobs are almost falling out of trees.
My main girl works in finance and she complains to me all the time about how she can't find qualified workers. She's dying for a good analyst on her team. Some of these people literally don't understand weighted averages, which is like Finance 102.
Now, you may find the field BORING. You may not want to be a 9-5 wage slave. I understand THAT.
But the opportunity is there.

Well I've spent most of my life living and studying in Australia, so i don't think that's really relevant for Australia.

Let's put aside the fact that i don't want to work 9-5 or live in the USA/west long term, Chicago is also unsafe and a bad demographic place to be in. Getting a visa for the USA really isn't that simple either.

To be honest, if i fail for some reason to simply earn any money in online business at all and somehow can sort out any visa issues, going to the USA in a few years time for a Finance job a to stack cash to make the permanent move could be a good move. IF ALL ELSE FAILS OF COURSE.

LOL, even i know what a weighted average is, and I think that i have a good understanding of how to calculate it. That is even with math not being my strongest suit (formulas, algebra, equations but high level statistics, trigonometry and so on are out of the question) ...

Well before the 1970s, college was geared more towards rich people and those who can afford it. The GI Bill though in the 50s sent men to college for free and it created the largest middle class the world has ever seen, but aside from that it was mainly a rich people thing to go to college.

Then they decided to open the floodgates. Enrollment was down in the 70s and 80s and colleges and universities started to panic and guess who ended up saving the day? Women. Women started to go to college in droves! Women are now over 50% of the people that go to college. A lot of women going to college from the 70s and onward.

In 2019 we have entered another crisis, college enrollment is down more than ever before and many people are thinking twice before going into large sums of debt and thinking that its not worth it. Colleges and universities are freaking out again and are hoping that Hispanics are going to come in and save the day. To that I say to my Hispanic/Latino people, please do not make that mistake and bail out these institutions! They are parasitical and worthless.

There is also a sense of white flight as well. Why should white people, and most importantly white men go and spend 5 precious years of their life and money only to get lectured on how they have too much privilege and shouldn't reproduce and are the problems for everything and everyone. Why would anyone want to pay for that? We are talking thousands of dollars you are putting into to subsidize Diversity summits, safe spaces, etc... There's very little value aside from very technical fields. Also there's a whole campaign on raping on college campuses everywhere where kissing a girl will be considered rape.

College is starting to be a joke now.

If I had to do it all over again I would just go to a tech school or a community college, learned a trade and make good money doing that and save up and start a business. You get way more skills running your own business than you do going 5 years to a university to major in Business Administration and goof off for 5 years.