Quote:Heartiste Wrote:

Should You Tip Waitresses?

If you're in America, yes. 20%. Bucking social norms doesn't automatically make you a badass or dark-triad pussy magnet.

You guys need to cook more. And get your wine at a bottle shop and enjoy at home.

This is coming from someone working in a high-end restaurant selling a lot of wine and making not-bad tips. I'm not even in the USA.

If you need any excuse to not ever eat at a restaurant anymore, read Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain (God rest his soul).

Go to any cocktail bar, a Negroni could cost you up to $20.

Buy a bottle of Campari, gin and sweet vermouth, equal measures of each - works out to less than $5.

Go to a butcher, they might have some Wagyu beef for $100/kg.

That's expensive... until you realize a restaurant will charge you the same price for 100 grams.

The percentage markups on food and beverages are insane. That's why it's a business.

And you guys want to give me a tip on top of that? Well, I'm not going to say no...

---

High-frequency, high-end dining is really only for the stupid-rich.

Everyone else is just spending money they don't have, for food they don't need, to impress people they don't like.

By all means, go out once a month or so, enjoy the service, the fake smiles, the way they call you by their first name only because they read it on your booking form.

Reality is just an illusion.

Using your politics as an excuse to break the rules of your society is how the SJWs roll.

Not Heartiste's finest hour.

Fruity syllogism too:

You have to tip wait staff.

Most wait staff are women.

Therefore failing to tip is a brave stand against the gynocracy.


How is this any different from the girl who thinks, yeah, he didn't rape me, but rape is such an important issue, that lying about rape helps the cause?

Once you enter the fake logic zone you are dead in the water.

@ redpillage

Are you talking about eating at home or stiffing waitstaff?

If you go to a restaurant and the bill is $40, a $6 tip is expected. Are you saying you get a thrill from stiffing them out of $6, or chiseling them down to $4?

Personally I often feel justified in doing that but when I do that I do I end up negative the rest of the day. I try to force my self to over look small slight s and tip any way.

I do the same thing when driving. If I get cut off I try to let it go.

Tit for tat is not healthy.

"So when an dark triad, Heartiste reading, alpha male stiffs her on 4 dollar tip just to prove some political point, or to neg her to get into her pants, you can see how shitty that would be."

I agree with you and don't do this myself. But you have to realize Heartiste's attitude didn't come about in a vacuum. They're a response to the way boys and men have been treated in the U.S. for decades.

Because of the ripple effects of '70s-era feminism, some women treat men poorly just to prove a political point. Specifically, I'm talking about female school teachers and guidance counselors, but that can also be extended to school psychologists, and principals.

Then there are the female college professors. And the women judges, especially the ones in family courts. Not a good track record there. And then there's mass media, where every man in a commercial is an idiot. This is so self-evident I shouldn't have to post links, should I?

Granted the above example isn't one men deal with face-to-face. But it has a trickle down effect in shaping a society in which wives now feel they can treat husbands poorly.

What mass media puts out becomes the cultural norm. And this even goes for traditional religious communities, many of which are more anti-male than the mainstream. See the Dalrock blog for lots of extrapolations on this.

So, is stiffing a waitress fair? No, but neither is the teacher who "diagnoses" the active boy as a problem child and has him put on Ritalin. Or the one who favors girls when they give out grades (link here). Or the female college profs who demean boys in their classrooms with the fake "1 in 5 statistic."

When you're younger, you blow this stuff off. You're busy. Your sex drive is high. You have bigger fish to fry (heh).

But when you're older, you have time to look back at your life and you start to question why things were the way they were. I assume this is what is fueling Heartiste and his posts, which are growing angrier and more eccentric by the day.

Tip stands for To Increase Profit.

The real problem is systematic, not about women or identity politics. It’s just companies and restaurants placing the burden on the customer instead of paying a decent salary. Can you imagine a white collar workers salary being reduced with the expectation that the customer supplement it to make it decent? I don’t put that outside the realm of possibility.

The solution however is not not tipping. Just pay your 15-20% and no more, don’t be a thirsty nikka and give the cute girl a $1000 so she can post it all over social media.

If you have a choice, don’t work these shitty jobs. For those that don’t, this is why we need more good high paying manufacturing jobs back in the states. And the corporations will fight tooth and nail to not allow employees to have options.

Quote: (11-19-2018 02:33 AM)Kona Wrote:  

You know the difference between a Jew and a canoe? A canoe tips!

Seriously, if somebody whines about tipping, leave me alone. If you gotta have a personal policy about tipping, also leave me alone.

Aloha!

Ya'll messing with a subject close kona's heart now. He wrote the above from the comfort of the parlor of his home for wayward girls. Here they are in group rehab session

If reverse psychology always works on you, leave me alone.

In the US and many other countries I tip based on SERVICE.
It's a business transaction, nothing more nothing less.
I'm not a chump hoping to get laid by overtipping an attractive waitress especially not one who is being manipulative by writing "Thanks! Jenny " on the check or flirting with me.
In countries where tipping is not expected (either included as a "service charge" or worked into the price of the menu because the waiters/waitresses are paid well, I don't tip or leave small change, whatever the custom is.
Having said that I'm old enough to remember when 10% was customary, and 15% was only for rare exceptional service. Then the restaurant industry started lobbying for more. So I still tip 10% on average.
But I make adjustments.
If I order a small/inexpensive meal, I raise the percentage, if it's an expensive meal I lower it, because it takes the same amount of work to bring a cheap/expensive dish to the table.
For haircuts I tip 20%--because of an excellent job and the stylist hasn't raised his price in years.
I don't tip someone who hands me food at the counter and rarely drop the change in the tipjar. You don't tip at fast food placesor the grocery store cashier, now do you?

I slightly under tip better looking women. It's sort of a neg.

Always tip the male bartenders, particularly when they aren't very good looking. Treat them like people. Engage them in conversation when practical. Having a bartender recognize you (in a positive way) when you walk in is significant social proof.

Quote: (11-19-2018 10:03 AM)redpillage Wrote:  

Quote: (11-19-2018 08:42 AM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  

Quote: (11-19-2018 06:29 AM)Monty_Brogan Wrote:  

But when did the shift to 20% happen for wait staff? It happened overnight. Growing up it was always 10%. Always. It's like some waiter lobby started passed the word to make it 20%.

I tip the most out of everyone I know, but the article and comments have me thinking about 15% from now on.

I'm not singling you out personally, but for argument's sake, for an $80 meal...

15% = $12
20% = $16

Its four bucks to extend a bit of humanly goodwill and appreciate to a fellow person's service.

If you overthink this, you get to the point where you become that woman at a yard sale who tries to beat someone up over $1 or fifty cents (I've seen this) for a lamp. To what end this?

Nobody ever got rich by wasting money on nonessentials. Reading the comments in this thread really concern me as it seems none of you guys have ever faced any true hardship in your lives.

20% is huge and over time adds up to real money. Seven lunches per week for about $25 each (lowballing here probably) that's $175. You add 20% on top of that and it's $210 - so $35 per week. This is probably on the low side but bear with me.

Now if you saved $35 per week that's $1,850 in one year. In 10 years that's the cost of a low budget car. But what we haven't considered here is compounding if you are able to invest the money instead or collect interest (more difficult these days but possible if you seek out banks abroad or invest in U.S. bonds/notes).

If your food budget is bigger than all those numbers inflate accordingly. Don't under estimate the slow drip that expenses like these can amount to. Instead of eating low quality high sugar high salt GMO crap in restaurants you should be learning how to cook your own meals anyway. So don't go to the burger place or diner for lunch every single day, just make yourself a sandwich and take it along. You know, just like your granddad did ;-)

I agree with the sentiment of "one of the most important parts of building money is not spending frivolously," especially as someone who makes around 60k ATM (hopefully increasing once I finish licensing in my trade in a year and a half) but if you go to a restaurant in the first place you are wasting money, period. Personally going to a restaurant sounds like "waste money and sit around waiting for an hour" so I go once or twice a month, but once you are there being Jewish with the waitress is the least of your concerns in terms of the wallet hit.

I've mentioned this before in a different thread but there's a trend of late shifting towards flirty female bartenders who basically function the same as strippers, being the center of thirsty male-gaze. No nudity, but more personal interaction. Tends to be in touristy destination spots. I call these women "startenders". I've been out on a weekend and these women dress provocatively and are circled by thisty guys acting like this:



It's one of the few venues where such behavior is deemed acceptable anymore...because it's a money-factory. It's easy to get suckered into thinking these women are issuing IOIs when they are just performing a service. Beware. Don't tip them extra.

Tipping is not just for waitresses. I tip most services I use regularly, such as a particular taxi driver, hairdresser, etc. Basically anyone you want to give you A1 service the next time you use them. I get a haircut once a month. What's a fiver once a month going to cost me, really?

UK based here, and in the industry at owner level. Tipping is appreciated but not "Give me 20% or I'll chase you down the road". I pay above minimum wage for okay staff and well above minimum wage for good staff, as they are worth it since they up sell like mad and make me extra profits. My guys split the tips between them and I have nothing to do with it, otherwise I'd have to declare it to the government who would tax them on it. That way they keep it all and have to declare the cash to HMRC (they don't, obviously...) I understand that in the USA restaurants pay peanuts and if it weren't for tips the waiting staff after taxes would be paying to serve you, is that right? 20% sounds very high and adding a fifth of the cost of a meal each time you eat out is a real cost to your own bottom line, not just a little tip. So if this is a real cost to your solvency and you're going to have to run your old car for another couple of years due to tipping, don't go out so much.

To me, if you you want a culture where you don't tip, the restaurants will have to pay their guys more. Great, except where is that money going to come from? You think Applebees or some other corporation's boards are going to go "Sorry shareholders, we're going to have to issue profit warnings and destroy our share value because some people don't like tipping"? The customer will be paying in increased menu prices, of course. So you're either going to have to get the restaurants to pay that 20% more to their staff and you pick up the tab, or they keep paying their staff shitty wages and depend on your tipping to make good their pay check. The first way, the restaurants will employ less people, the service will probably be worse and the servers may care less as they're not going to get tipped anyway. Maybe the system works as it is. As long as someone isn't being an entitled, lazy prick about their tip then just go with the culture and tip. As someone already said, the waitress will have to share her tips with the kitchen team who are usually male anyway.

tl;dr: You're going to be paying it anyway, so don't be a dick about it.

Quote: (11-19-2018 11:35 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

@ redpillage

Are you talking about eating at home or stiffing waitstaff?

If you go to a restaurant and the bill is $40, a $6 tip is expected. Are you saying you get a thrill from stiffing them out of $6, or chiseling them down to $4?

Personally I often feel justified in doing that but when I do that I do I end up negative the rest of the day. I try to force my self to over look small slight s and tip any way.

I do the same thing when driving. If I get cut off I try to let it go.

Tit for tat is not healthy.

No, I don't go to restaurants much anymore, even here in Spain where tipping is not expected. In the U.S. I would probably go to a restaurant once or twice per year for special occasions. My girl feel the same way so there's no pressure coming from that end. We both feel that the food is crap (especially compared to her cooking) and that it's a giant waste of money.

So what I AM saying is that the peer pressure of tipping actually keeps me from going to restaurants in the first place, aside of the food sucking a lot and most definitely being unhealthy.

Quote: (11-19-2018 02:56 PM)Hypno Wrote:  

I slightly under tip better looking women. It's sort of a neg.

LOL - I got to respect that. That's how I actually handle my interactions with women in general, its an inverted scale. The hotter the are the more dickish I treat them. Doesn't always work with them (bitches have smarted up and care less these days), but it works often enough and when it does I can literally feel them boiling inside, wondering 'WTF is this dude is treating/ignoring me like this'.

I am in a LT relationship so I mainly do it for sport these days. Just doing my part so you younger bucks regain a bit of upper hand ;-)

My question would be how come restaurant owners can't pay minimum wage like everyone else?

It's not right that every other business in America has to pay minimum wage but restaurant owners can get away with paying 2-3 bucks per hour and then convince the customer that it's their fault their waitresses aren't earning more. News flash: every other company in America has found a way to cope!

Sure....

Tipping is smoke and mirrors presented by restaurant groups so they can avoid paying minimum wage like every other business, and somehow the public laps it up. Unlike in every other business where it's the owner's fault for not paying more than mimumum wage, in the restaurant business it's the customers fault if the server doesn't make enough, which makes no sense at all to blame the customer but that's what they do.

Instead of waitresses taking umbrage at customers for not generously paying tips, they should really be blaming the folks they work for.

Something Heartiste missed is in regard to married women. Consider a women's situation and where her wealth is going if she's married and has kids.

My wife helps supplement our income as a waitress while she is finishing out her course for an EMT and doing her clinicals. Our budget is tight, but her bringing home a good night of tips helps us alot. Toddlers are expensive. Clothes. Food. You name it. You don't want to even know how many diapers we go through each week.

When men, women, and couples in general tip her, they are helping our family and the small little savings I'm trying to build - including trying to come up with tuition to send my kids to a classical school.

Now are there thirsty dudes out there who still hit on my wife and give her big tips - even though they know shes married? Yep. Hell, some of these punks help contribute toward the degeneracy of our culture by asking for her number - even though she's married. That pisses me off for many obvious reasons, but that's not the subject of this thread.

Fine. At least their money is going somewhere useful. I'll actually put that money to good use instead of wasting it. Get an idea of who your waitress is. Maybe that money might actually be going to somewhere useful.

One other side note: A good waitress can make good money. When you tip cash, alot of places only have them report a very small amount - sometimes like 10$ when they made over 100 in tips that nights. Only when you pay via card does the full amount have to be reported. Obviously, this saves the restaurant some money as well when one pays with cash. In case you don't realize it, 13$ hour in cash is equivalent to around 16-17$ for someone who makes hourly and is taxed on that.

So if you hustle and work hard, big money can be made. I know a waiter who was making 50k a year at Outback Steakhouse and another pulling around 40k at Olive Garden. That's more alluring and can land you highly motivated staff more so than 10$ an hour at Mcdonalds where you get the same amount of money regardless of the customer service you provide.

I only tip directly (when possible) with coins or low value notes that take up space. Cash is king.

At bars it's great because you tip after the first drink so the deal is made and you work with the bartender for the whole night. A couple of coins after every purchase gives you priority service, no cock blocking, a free drink here or there and always a good vibe. You're both providing value for each other.

At restaurants it's not as great because you don't tip until the end so unless you're a regular customer, you can't establish a clear relationship. It also feels kind of dirty tipping at the end... there's that expectation and hurt feelings if the tip is not quite right. It's petty.

Speaking of tips and bars, here's a favorite one of mine that works great as an indirect opener: If you're buying a round of drinks for a group and can't carry all of them, always include an extra drink and ask the hot young girl standing next to you at the bar to help you carry them over to your table. Young girls like being helpful and being directed. When you reach your table, thank her by offering a spare drink. Now she has to drink it with you not to be rude. The best part is, she has already passed the compliance and non-cuntiness test by helping you carry them and you're not falling into the BETA trap of directly buying her a drink. You're getting the benefits of rewarding her good behaviour and getting her tipsy and open to you. It's pretty much "don't fuck up game" at this point. I usually try to get rid of them ASAP and bump into them later in isolation. This lets you screen a bunch of girls using the helper technique, unless you've specifically recruited the first one to be your drinks bitch for the night, in which case, you're 100% getting laid and she'll be up for anything you want (within reason you fucking weirdos).

Quote: (11-19-2018 08:42 AM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  

Quote: (11-19-2018 06:29 AM)Monty_Brogan Wrote:  

But when did the shift to 20% happen for wait staff? It happened overnight. Growing up it was always 10%. Always. It's like some waiter lobby started passed the word to make it 20%.

I tip the most out of everyone I know, but the article and comments have me thinking about 15% from now on.

I'm not singling you out personally, but for argument's sake, for an $80 meal...

15% = $12
20% = $16

Its four bucks to extend a bit of humanly goodwill and appreciate to a fellow person's service.

If you overthink this, you get to the point where you become that woman at a yard sale who tries to beat someone up over $1 or fifty cents (I've seen this) for a lamp. To what end this?

If I'm going out for a nice meal, the total would hardly ever be $80. I'll keep the math simple and say $150. So back in the day, a $15 tip is now a supposed to be $30. My wages haven't doubled since this jump from 10% to 20%. So that's not really chump change.

That's what I was getting at. And I'm not "anti-tip" at all, I always take care of people. I just don't understand the 20% that dropped out of thin air. Even though I think I know the answer. I'm sure the prices of goods have gone up for restaurant owners and they haven't increased the staff's wages.

Quote:Quote:

My favorite comment:
“Tipping never got a man laid”

BUT: Not tipping can get a man laid.

That's exactly why I decided to just lurk on the Everything Else sections and in general, have a healthy distance to the "pick up" community. I would smack the shit out of a friend if he comes with this pseudo pickup shit and tells me:

"Bruh I'm gonna not tip this HB and she will totally suck my weenie"

Disclaimer: I'm a bartender

Disclaimer also: The below is only addressed at my fellow Americans.



I'll just say this about people who stiff me on a tip. They:


-are all socially maladjusted
-are annoying
-ask a million questions
-waste my time
-order Long Islands and Adios's (i don't mind making drinks with multiple ingredients, but when I hear some dumb twat or early 20s retard order that at the start of a shift, I sigh to myself and think "it's gonna be that kind of night..."
-otherwise act in ways myself and customers find annoying and obtuse

In other words, they don't get it.


The long and short of it is people who don't tip (or don't understand tipping) don't get life in general. The fact that the internet is rife with anti tipping screeds doesn't surprise me in the slightest. When people like that crawl out of their homes and come hang out at a bar, it's no mystery to me whom I'm dealing with.

Bartending has made me way more of a racial profiler, too. Sorry but the stereotypes are true. Black people drink henny, (and in my experience, tip rather well) indians love blue moon and almost always stiff you, asians love their irish whiskey for some reason, (the FOB ones never tip but young Americanized asian professionals are always good tippers). White bitches love Grey goose and titos. Mexicans drink modelo (and can be both bad and good tippers, depending on level of Americanization) Persians....well they could be their own post by themselves but the short version is they have a lot of money, like it when people know it and are EXTREMELY pushy. But they usually tip handsomely. And their chicks are usually hot as fuck, and somewhere around 10-20 years younger than the guys they're with.

Blue collar people are among the best bar clientele, regardless of race. Why? BECAUSE THEY FUCKING GET IT.

Bitching about tipping culture is, and has always been the domain of the middle class sheltered dilettante.

Quote: (11-19-2018 08:54 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

The long and short of it is people who don't tip (or don't understand tipping) don't get life in general.

Why don't get you ask your bar owner how come you don't get paid more than a couple bucks an hour like the rest of America, instead of blaming your patrons that you don't make enough?

Your employer and yourself are responsible for your wages, not your customers.

You must be a hit at parties.

Quote: (11-19-2018 09:31 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  

You must be a hit at parties.

Ask your employer to be accountable for your wages, not your customers.