Quote: (04-18-2018 12:10 PM)ilostabet Wrote:
This is certainly not an original concept but I don't think it's talked about a lot, and I see quite often traditional morals and free market being advocated by the same person. I think they are ultimately incompatible and that the threat of 'cultural marxism' can only ever be spread through a capitalist system.
Free Market Capitalism is a system that relies on 'negative rights' instead of 'positive rights'. It is therefore a relativistic system, as it does not discriminate between 'good behavior' and 'bad behavior', outside of private property rights. It also does not discriminate between national and foreign capital, or national and foreign interests. Therefore, it is easy for oligarchs to subvert a nation's interests and values, simply by dominating it economically - and thereby promoting whatever kind of propaganda they want (usually, propaganda that turns people into mere consumers: sodomy, usury, alternative lifestyles, hedonism, consumerism, etc).
It is also, undeniably, the biggest force for technological progress and the biggest generator of material wealth. This can be a problem in an of itself for traditional structures, when unchecked by some state measure to curb it. As Ted Kaczynski wrote in his Manifesto:
The conservatives are fools: They whine about the decay of traditional values, yet they enthusiastically support technological progress and economic growth. Apparently it never occurs to them that you can’t make rapid, drastic changes in the technology and the economy of a society without causing rapid changes in all other aspects of the society as well, and that such rapid changes inevitably break down traditional values.
The kind of material changes that Free Market Capitalism operates are revolutionary and operate a subsequent revolution in the societal norms (and social strata).
Lastly, the increased material wealth makes the average man complacent, apathetic and it also makes the country which has it very attractive for economic migrants, thereby doubly undermining the national sovereignty and cohesion.
Communism on the other hand, and despite its claims, keeps people poor, has virtually no social mobility, is formally very hierarchical. Even though it does promote relativism officially, it is a lot less relativistic than Capitalism.
We also see it in practice. Which countries still have some form of traditional morality and social structure in Europe? The former Communist countries. Which countries are completely down the drain in relativism? The capitalists.
We know from historical documents that oligarchs of the industrial revolution have funded propaganda of both Communists and Liberals (the original ones, now called Libertarians) to undermine the ancien regime and the rule of monarchs. I assume they were doing an experiment to see which system would most quickly undermine and destroy the traditional society. I think the contest has been over since the mid-late 80s. While the West had become illiterate, matriarchal, deracinated, apathetic, atomized and hedonistic - the East was still highly educated, patriarchal, always on the edge of rebelling against the system, community oriented and bound by traditional social norms.
Due to all this, I consider the term 'cultural marxism' to be incorrect. Even though the original thinkers were self-described marxists, their ideas did not spread through marxist countries or structures, but through the most capitalist and liberal country in the world to all other countries that adopted international free market capitalism.
This is easily one of the best posts I've read on this forum, especially in terms of what its questioning. Even if I don't necessarily agree with one of two details. A couple of times I've brought up the same topic myself.
To me, ilostabet is identifying a huge deception that is being perpetuated upon us. I think that red pill culture has to be red pill about matters beyond just feminist nuts, mass overimmigration and the promotion of sexual perverts. Anyway, I planned a short reply, but it turned into a type of mini essay. Oh well, here it is anyway!
Democracy was never about "fairness" or an "equal voice for all" or anything like that. Democracy in Ancient Greece AND afterwards was based around slavery, around feudal type elites and around power blocs. As a pr stunt it was a nice way of using soft power. And when that failed, you could expect hard power. In modern democracy, the Establishment gives you choices, but it tries its level best to ensure everything is framed to see that they are the ones that win. In other words, its your choices, but the choices you have are decided for you. For instance, immigration. You can vote Right and expect a tough stance vs immigration. But the corporate backers of the Right WANT immigration because it means ever cheaper, more compliant labour – often labour that is a threat to your career which may be blue OR white collar. You can vote Left because they promise not to slash your wages down and fight against corporate excess. But guess what? Yes the Left ALSO want more immigration because early immigrants tend to vote Left. In other words, the Establishment has such a control over both Left and Right that its like you're being fucked up the arse by an elephant, either way. The Establishment control of the media, the power of globalist corporations, corporate lobbying and the like make this all the more acute. There's plenty of other examples. For instance. the British Labour Party had its first prime minister with kids at a state school ever when Tony Bliar became Prime Minister. Ofcourse it was all a pr stunt. And Bliar was about as Labour as Margaret Thatcher ie 0%!
Having said the above, I'm not saying that the electoral system is completely worthless. Some of us may gain from one party in office, some from another. However, the Establishmen't aim isn't to represent the electorate. Its aim is to counter it. Its aim is to neutralise forces that it deems harmful to its own agenda. We see that in how the Establishment media sneers at and slams popular policies as "populist".
One difficulty is assessing the phrase "cultural Capitalism" is that we can't really get a single defintion of "Capitalism". Is it basically government by those with the most capital? Is it government based around the most effective use of capital? Is it about a market economy devoid of any state influences whatsoever? Adam Smith is talked about like a mascot of the right. The problem is, even back in the 18 century he talked about the need for state intervention, because he was adamant the market couldn't solve everything. Then we have the problem of different types of capitalism. You have croney Capitalism and feudalist type capitalism which are anything BUT efficient. Then you have corporative and state linked Capitalism which is often anything but an individual freedom led political doctrine. So the question remains, what is cultural Capitalism?
Likewise, there isn't really a specific definition of marxism, let alone "cultural marxism". Its easy to delve into Marx's work and pull out a few phrases on "the exploitation of women". But people seem to forget that 18th century women were often farm hands, basket weavers and the like.
Life was shit for them. But it was shit for men. And women were never called off to war. So you could argue, they had a better life than ordinary men. Likewise if you look at the Soviet Union, it never had any of the SJW nonsense of the modern capitalist West. Homosexuals were considered obscene, mentally ill deviants.Women in the Soviet Union were free to pursue careers but there was none of the toxic trash of Sweden or Hilary Clinton style "smash the patriachy" drivel. Yes, we've heard of phrases like "Trotskyite Feminists" but thats a phrase to describe dungareed dykes in Western universities with a cobbled together juvenile attempt at "ideology". Nowhere was it really present in the Warsaw Pact bloc whatsoever. Or indeed really any Communist state.
Some people may ask what my politics are when they read my assessment above. OK we'll I've always been involved in the market and business. The idea of switching to Marxism would utterly horrify me, it would mean a life wasted. However, I'm no cheerleader for croney Capitalism and other forces pretending to be an "efficient market". I've seen how much of Britain is nothing more than a modern day equivalent to feudalism, certainly a croney Capitalism. So my own politics are probably a type of social democracy that has the common sense of a market, with the common sense and honesty of meritocracy. With a sense of fair play that is needed to stop a society or nation going into melt down.
Moving onto the phrase "cultural Capitalism" vs "cultural Marxism" again, I think its necessary to look at the forces driving current fashions, current trends and indeed current propaganda. Some people will say "economic Marxism is about economic equality, so cultural Marxism is about cultural equality. Well yes, I understand that thats the case being presented to some people. I also know that using the word "Communism" in places like America is enough to whip some people up into a kind of religious fever. Is there really anything "Communist" about Hilary Clinton or all those pathetic corporations that back vile SJW campaigns? Ofcourse not! Look at the cause and effect of the SJW bullshit. Its instigators aren't "Communists" and its result is not "Communist". Nor is its agenda for any "Communist" aims. Warren Buffett was open about what he wanted in his SJW pursuits. He said he was worth 100bn USD and reckoned his 2 sisters were smarter than him. His claim with that without "sexism", his family (ie him and the 2 sisters) would therefore be worth OVER 300bn USD. He was basically suggesting that the US economy would be effectively twice the size if women were engaged in traditional male pursuits of money making, instead of looking after their kids over doing tradtional female jobs like beautician, primary teacher, housewife and the like. Buffett is a numbers obsessed Aspergers who sees the whole thing in terms of cold hard cash.
There's a million examples like that. Wives working full time was often a luxury, for luxury goods to be purchased, non that long ago for middle class Brits. But now its an essential just to buy a home, IF couples can afford one. Again, who profits from this drive to squeeze ever more work from people? Yes its the Establishment, the corporate machine. The obsession with flooding the West with cheap, compliant 3rd world labour is undoubtedly a Capitalist obsession. Socialist Westerners are outraged by this. Its globalism at its worst to them, a barefaced exploitation designed to change the lives of Westerners for the worst, towards 3rd world quality of life. The SJW obsession with homosexuaality and promoting sexual deviance is puzzling. Like I said, its not Marxist or Socialist. As those 2 groups are/were disgusted by such practices. Perhaps there is an element of reducing the population growth of white indigeneous Westerners. The elite considers them too demanding in quality of life, whereas the 3rd world imports work cheap. And ofcourse homosexuals are far less likely to have kids (excpt with the abomination of their IVF nonsense etc).
Its long been my view that SJW infected the political ie economic left to neutralise and discredit it. Its akin to the Roman tactic of divide and conquer. How do you stop a working Westerner voting for his interests over those of the Establishment. Well getting his political party brainwashing his kids into sodomy and transsexualism is a "good" (ie shameful and effective) start. Getting his party applauding radical Islam and all the other radical SJW bullshit will leave him incensed. Talk about "affrmative action", mass imigration plans and the like will do the same. If you look at the British Labour Party, there's a constant pattern. Privileged upper class idiots who care nothing for traditional Labour values remove traditional males and replace them with massively pro-immigrant non whites, or with homosexuals, or with poison spitting short haired square jawed misandrist skanks.One of the leaders is actually the daughter of a Baron, she's a billionairess Oppenheimer (her maiden name). There's many like her. Their families, friends, social life and hugely expensive schooling and personal beliefs are no different to Conservatives. Infact they basically ARE Conservatives. Because their aim isn't to get into power and change things, its simply to advance an agenda or their gang, their "club". But she spouts SJWism all day, whereas the Conservatives actually practice it through their corporate backers without actively spouting it so much. Althouh even the Conservatives decided sodomites should be "allowed to marry". Why? Probably because so many Conservatives are secretly homosexual but culturally they won't be open about it or promote it themselves. Why? Again, its about the illusion of choice in the electorate. Divide and conquer.
There's a vast number of examples of all this. The British Telegraph admits that camp fag lover (who somehow got into a SOCIALIST govt, and even recently claimed to be "left"!) Macron is actully a "poster boy for the elite". We can see how faggotry and dykes aren't really some "liberated and once oppressed group" but actually a bunch of freaks who have endocrine disruptor poisoning (which is treatable). But ofcourse the most greedy excesses of our economic system won't admit that we're all becoming poisoned. So they pretend that the results of disease are actually something to "celebrate". Capitalism used to be tied to masculine pride. Big wallet being like a big dick. Now the media is full of shite like "female empowerment" and garbage like men working as "housewives". Its as if the capitalism materialist carrot isn't enough, because younger people are struggling career wise. So what do the media do? Promote faggotry and all ffeminacy and shit as "freedom", whereas economic freedom was promoted in the past. The media pretend we have the choice between "left and right". They say the left is "Social Marxism" but really its just liberalism with the social aspect as a smokescreen. If you read Adam Smith, he had a big hand in the invention of modern Capitalism AND Liberalism. Because they're the SAME ideology ultimately, just with 2 slightly different spins.
You could see the propaganda in the British music industry in the 1980s. Musicians began to crticise the economic policies of the government and unemployment. So what was the solution? Manufacture some claims of a "great injustice" against fags. The music industry is riddled with fags (and the associated sexual abuse). So pretty soon music was either about fags being "discriminated against", or Nelson Mandela or Live AID, or just pop music again. The economic situation of working people was being drowned out by many other voices.
It really annoys me to hear some some supposed red pillers saying "damned leftists this, damned leftists that". Red pillism should be about waking up to reality. How can people wake up to reality when they are blind about the edeceptions of Western economics and Western voting systems? Who are the forces of SJWism? Its not so grassroots movement. Who benefits from SJWism? SJWism is by the Establishment, for the Establishment. Its a smokescreen, a great con trick, a divide and conquer tactic.It doesn't even make sense. Because women don't want to be fire"men"/persons/ or whatever they are called today. Fags are 5% of the population, yet faggotry and tranneyism receive a corporate marketing budget that Coca Cola could only DREAM of. And as for the immigration aspect of SJWism, well just look at how France's democracy has been destroyed with the bullshit election of President "Lolliboy" Macron. The elites (and not JUST Soros) are flooding Europe with Islamic radicalists. Already places like Brussels have had to shut down over night in fear of terror attacks. But big corporations are jerking themselves off at the thought of even more cheap labour. And using the media to preach cult like bullshit such as "they shall not divide us"/"pray for peace" etc etc . Indigeneous Western left of centre voters have no one to turn to in protest.. None of this has the fingerprints of an ideology thats gone to sleep outside of N Korea and the like. But its covered in the prints of the corporations that run Western society.