I'm studying software development. The career prospects are good. I like coding. The money can be pretty good. There's the possibility of being location independent. There's always something new to learn, which I think is cool. But I worry about this career choice. It's associated with geeky social lepers. Is it going to be a huge disadvantage? Should I be worried?

- Sylar

You can stand out much more easily from your peers, who will most probably fit the cuckold image. As long as you 1) lift, 2) eat well, 3) read, 4) dress well, 5) do martial arts (will give you a social circle; outside of those geeks), 6) practice game/sales, and 7) obviously make that money, you will do well

I'm putting in the work now as well, just that I'm stuck in India for now. Will go to the US for a masters soon. Reap the rewards and work harder there

If you keep caring about what others think, you'll never be your own man.

Here's how I see it, in terms of 1-10 SMV

There are maybe a few dozen jobs that get the pussy wet:

Professional musician, artist, firefighter, athlete, actor, pilot, boat captain, bartender, doctor, dancer, personal trainer, agent, photographer. (+1.5 for a wide range of girls)

Many only get some pussies wet like chef, military, professor, cop, massage therapist, lawyer (I guess?), veternarian, tradesman, construction workers, restaurant owner, yoga instructor. (+0.5-1.5) depending on the girl.

Then there is just a big pile of jobs (~90%) that don't really do much for the pussy. (-0.5 - +0.5)

Then there are the the jobs where you need some game to convince the girl it isn't a negative, especially past probably the age of 22: McDonalds drive through window, dishwasher, janitor, garbage man, DMV worker, meter maid. (-0.5 - -1.5)

In my experience software is a lottery in the -0.5 to +0.5. If the girl is brainy enough to be a stem major herself she will often be turned on that you are "smart" in that way. So can be a +0.5. Also girls from poorer countries with hotter and better girls have see it as higher status and higher paying especially a Westerner earning higher wages. Also +0.5.

If you have great game then if you make great $ at software & investments that previous -0.5 - +0.5 can start looking to be a +1.5-2.0 if you are really upping your lifestyle like any other 'meh' pussy wetting profession (penthouse with ocean view).

From the vast majority of girls you will say what you do once, they never talk about it again like most jobs I have ever had. When you are gaming chicks anyways even if you see them long term the best is when neither of you talk about work and are in the moment having fun doing whatever, sharing inside jokes etc...

Then there are girls, I'd say 20-25% where it is a -0.5 because they would rather you have one of the sexy jobs. These girls often though are girls in my experience that aren't good long term girls because they are more prone to status than to having a good future together.

That said game can easily beat a -0.5 handicap to bang these girls short term. Yes you will have to game this group of chicks with much less mistakes, and if they are on the offensive about your work off the bat you need to go on the offensive against them to break their esteem (it works), until they soften up and see you in your frame you present.

----

Bottom line if it is software development vs being a semi-famous front man singer or a bartender at the hottest nightclub in your city, then it is a big loss in passive pussy points.

If it is software development vs a starving artist indie band bass player that plays 3 local shows a month, or a bartender at a dive bar with older patron - software dev wins for potential.

If it is software dev vs. accountant, business manager, banker, salesman, scientist, whatever.... the pile of meh jobs it won't matter at all as far as pussy.

If you want your job to be a 'pussy magnet' job I really believe you need to go big or go home in that category.

A very nice centrally located apartment in an exotic locale with lots of $ vs the locals with the ability to move around at will is a +1.5 in itself.


I have two friends that are lawyers - I bang way hotter younger chicks, they are married to fatties.

I have a roommate that is head chef at a really fancy pussy wetting boutique restaurant - he is dating a whale - I bang way hotter younger chicks

I have a friend that is a massage therapist - I bang way hotter younger chicks.

I have a friend that is a construction head contractor - I bang way hotter younger chicks - he is with a 4 that his friend used to fuck

I have a friend that is a starving artist film maker photographer - he had oneitis over a 6 he thought was a 9 that repeatedly cheated on him

I have a friend that has an MBA from Brazil, fluent Portugese - he knocked up a 6 he doesn't like - I bang way hotter younger chicks than him

I have another roommate that is #2 in command at a local health bar nutritional start up company - he is engaged to a chubby 6 - I bang way hotter younger chicks than him

I had a friend that is a surf instructor - I have met two of his serious girlfriends both low 6's - one cheated on him with his best friend - I bang way hotter younger chicks than him (on average lol)

I have a friend I played music with, he is a great singer and musician, teaches kids music for a living - he has a low 6 plain girl friend - I bang way hotter younger chicks than him

My friend's little brother went to an art college for photography and his job is full time photographer (with some rare travel)for a small company(pays shit). He is in huge debt, lives at home at 27, and gets zero pussy. I bang way hotter younger chicks than him.

---

The guys that beat me have a financially successful category 1 pussy wetter job (or trust fund so they can do it full time)

or

They have a combination of more Game, $, fitness, style, and show-off level abilities at arts or sport on the side that girls think are sexy (often category 1 pussy wetter related).

Quote: (01-06-2017 11:49 PM)Paeter Wrote:  

I'm studying software development. The career prospects are good. I like coding. The money can be pretty good. There's the possibility of being location independent. There's always something new to learn, which I think is cool. But I worry about this career choice. It's associated with geeky social lepers. Is it going to be a huge disadvantage? Should I be worried?

- Sylar

If you're good and play your cards right, you can either retire in 10 years or find a location independent gig in less than 10 years. Then you can travel around the world or live wherever you want.

Fuck what other people think about your profession. If you're good at it and you like it, go for it. Most people suck at their jobs and hate their jobs. Most people also have to work until they are too old to enjoy life.

Quote: (01-06-2017 11:49 PM)Paeter Wrote:  

I like coding. The money can be pretty good.

End of discussion my friend! Your passions & your personality are related to your attractiveness, and not your co-workers. Yes software developers aren't known for their joyous personality, but if you want to be that... go out there, talk to people and Day Game like crazy! I'm sure as hell you'd be able to do it since you can code!

Being honest I do think about this in America where things are very status & identity driven as far as jobs from time to time, and I have to remind myself of sex life vs. 99% of other guys I know here in the States (horrific for them regardless of profession).

When I am abroad I have never thought about it once and it is usually a positive because I can tell girls the truth and it is a legit way to make a great living anywhere so girls often open up more.

That said if I ever hung up my hat on software development I would be making a deal with myself $, location independence, early retirement is no longer a high priority for me and I would go to a city & pick a category 1 pussy wetter job and call it a life.

As we all know though especially at 40s+ America is a pretty bad dating market in general. And if you don't make decent $ the settle down and have a family thing becomes much more stressful. Age is a large consideration in all this.

A 47 year old will have a hard time being a bartender at the city's hottest nightclub when he is going against big-titted 23 year old blondes that bring in more men to spend, instead you could have a very nice penthouse in Caracas after it settles down and be banging a rotation all in their 20s still probably quite easily with good game. So there's that...

Man, as long as you're making some dough and living the way you want it, you can work in any job, because good game can override these societal preconceptions on a girls head about what job is "attractive". Just carry yourself with confidence, learn some game and it'll all work out.

Wtf?! I myself am a software developer and i got never called nerd or geeky, or poindexter. On the contrary, i get more girls than i can handle. I think you somehow project your own insecurities and worries subconsciently about somehow the other seeing you nerdy and the girls and/or other pick it up. I lived 2 years in the Us (Miami, Sf, Boston and Chicago) and never a girl turned me down because i'm a software developer. Just work out, dress well, educate yourself (not only in computer science, but economics, politics, "social dynamics", music, etc.. read a lot, not only SF but also every other genre), learn languages and instruments, etc. Be a better "you". You're a specialist in software development, but this doesn't mean that's the only thing you should be and do. Software development is a part of You ( for a big part), so is your education (in politics, economics, etc to a lesser extend) but it does not define you. You are You. Become a well educated man which specialize in software development. If You do that you won't have major problems in getting the girls you want and everything else in life.

Defy expectations. Many coders are geeks. Be a geek that lift weights and is fit. That alone defies expectations.

Don't change your career plans based on what you think women like. Anyway, being a location-independent developer is neutral to good for many girls. The nerd stereotypes are outdated.

Software Engineer here in a city where it's pretty common (not San Francisco though). I've gotten pretty positive responses from women in regards to being a software dev/engineer, however I do not fit the typical programmer/brogrammer mold (former military, former college athlete and have kept up with lifting). I leverage all that when it comes up in conversation, joke about how nerdy I am in the most aloof manner the frame allows and find it to work incredibly well. Also generally most dev's are intense introverts, so you need to come in with higher energy/good game etc you should be fine.

In short as others have mentioned break the mold and stand out from the rest.

On another note I've found when traveling to non tech-ish US cities or meeting women visiting mine from places like the midwest they respond well to hearing "Software Engineer".

OP, when I was younger I had a very similar attitude and concern about my career choices. That concern was only further amplified by guidance from various elders, and I moved away from my true career calling because of these things.

That was the worst developmental mistake of my life, and something that has arguably cost me a decade of progress. You have no idea how much damage you can do to yourself if you choose not to take up a career based on its perceived social status. Don't make my mistake, stick to your career calling. Life is hard, and the only chance any of us have is firing on all cylinders in that one thing we have aptitude in.

On the specific question of software engineering and the geeks, you are 'putting the cart before the horse'. Geeky socially weird types just have a greater tendency to be analytical types who gravitate towards software engineering. That ends up creating the stereotype. It's not the other way -- software engineering doesn't turn you into a geek.

The solution is just to clearly not be a geek. If you dance salsa / play guitar in a band / have muscles / have style / ride a motorbike / are a good conversationalist, you are not going to be called a geek. Even if you dress like Neo at work, write lame jokes in your code comments, make 5 references to 'magic smoke' per day, and only use FreeBSD for religious reasons. As GLL says "you only need 2 good or interesting traits that are high contrast". The lawyer who is ripped. The doctor who travels to places like Antarctica & Gambia. The engineer who fought in a battle. The accountant who competes in downhill skiing. So be the software guy who X. You choose X.

Even if sounds a bit crazy, clean your face ith apple vinegar.
2parts of water for 1 or apple vinegar.
every night before sleep

Quote: (01-06-2017 11:49 PM)Paeter Wrote:  

I'm studying software development. The career prospects are good. I like coding. The money can be pretty good. There's the possibility of being location independent. There's always something new to learn, which I think is cool. But I worry about this career choice. It's associated with geeky social lepers. Is it going to be a huge disadvantage? Should I be worried?

- Sylar

I'm a software engineer/entrepreneur. That's how I get paid. Not how I get laid. Big difference.
I wouldn't bring it up. Also, I'm athletic and have an arts background.
Most girls who are interested in you assume you have hobbies and stuff.
So take Travesty's category 1 to heart. Girls can automatically relate and get wet to category 1 jobs.

I was just chatting up a big-titted girl and the conversation went back to my music video/film directing days + eye fucking mania (fit)
So... I would seriously take up a category 1 passion like guitar, or basketball or something you can collaborate in a conversation.

In short, you may like coding. But girls don't.

If you think it makes you unatractive, yes it will. Not because of the career, but because of your lack of confidence. Sames as balding guys.

I also have a "geeky" job. If they ask, I just tell them I make robots. Only 1% true, but they wouldn't understand anyways. When someone asks what you do, they don't really give a shit.

And half of the girls I fucked didn't even know what I did for a living. They never asked. It's not like I'm a game expert with 100s of notches, but still, I never considered it a problem.




It's better to look like a sucessful, fit sexy man, but having a geeky job, than having a "panty droping job" but looking like a nerd. You have a career full of oportunity and cash, just improve other aspects of your life and you will be fine.

Quote: (01-06-2017 11:49 PM)Paeter Wrote:  

I'm studying software development. The career prospects are good. I like coding. The money can be pretty good. There's the possibility of being location independent. There's always something new to learn, which I think is cool. But I worry about this career choice. It's associated with geeky social lepers. Is it going to be a huge disadvantage? Should I be worried?

- Sylar

Do you want to keep on learning new stuff as you grow older? Software development is a young man's game.

Like others have said, forget what the job associates you with.

Does the career in this profession give you what you want? Location independence? Money? More free time?

If you are happy with the answer it is the right choice.

Jesus, based on Travesty's testimony about his bang's quality we need to rename the forum to the TraVesty forum.

Quote: (01-10-2017 09:49 PM)lazariuskriss Wrote:  

Wtf?! I myself am a software developer and i got never called nerd or geeky, or poindexter. On the contrary, i get more girls than i can handle. I think you somehow project your own insecurities and worries subconsciently about somehow the other seeing you nerdy and the girls and/or other pick it up. I lived 2 years in the Us (Miami, Sf, Boston and Chicago) and never a girl turned me down because i'm a software developer. Just work out, dress well, educate yourself (not only in computer science, but economics, politics, "social dynamics", music, etc.. read a lot, not only SF but also every other genre), learn languages and instruments, etc. Be a better "you". You're a specialist in software development, but this doesn't mean that's the only thing you should be and do. Software development is a part of You ( for a big part), so is your education (in politics, economics, etc to a lesser extend) but it does not define you. You are You. Become a well educated man which specialize in software development. If You do that you won't have major problems in getting the girls you want and everything else in life.

That's awesome! Thanks man! That really motivates me and puts my mind at ease. I was really worried.

Quote: (01-11-2017 02:13 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

software engineering doesn't turn you into a geek.

It is actually quite silly when I think about it like that. I guess that was a concern. I don't want to turn into a huge geek. I don't fit the stereotype in my own judgement.

I guess I have to ask myself. If I already had the girl of my dreams, what would I want to get up every day and do? Because if I'm only working for the pussy opportunities, my work is gonna be hellishly meaningless if I already have a great girl.

Besides, I can always do sexy hobbies if I want a 'hot identity'.

Quote: (01-11-2017 02:13 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

The solution is just to clearly not be a geek. If you dance salsa / play guitar in a band / have muscles / have style / ride a motorbike / are a good conversationalist, you are not going to be called a geek. Even if you dress like Neo at work, write lame jokes in your code comments, make 5 references to 'magic smoke' per day, and only use FreeBSD for religious reasons. As GLL says "you only need 2 good or interesting traits that are high contrast". The lawyer who is ripped. The doctor who travels to places like Antarctica & Gambia. The engineer who fought in a battle. The accountant who competes in downhill skiing. So be the software guy who X. You choose X.

Yep, I see. I see. Thank you.

Who cares what girls think? Live your life and do as you please. I like to play battle card games. If a girl doesn't like it she can take a fucking hike. I'm just using that as an example, but do not base your career decisions based on what some hypothetical random chick thinks. Sure, some girls might write you off as a geek, but ask yourself this:

Will I lose sleep over that?

or

will I lose sleep over working a job I feel "meh" about to impress other people instead of a job I enjoy where I can make a ton of money?

Easy choice for me. follow the money, and that goes double if the money is in something you enjoy doing.

Quote: (01-12-2017 06:14 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

Who cares what girls think? Live your life and do as you please. I like to play battle card games. If a girl doesn't like it she can take a fucking hike. I'm just using that as an example, but do not base your career decisions based on what some hypothetical random chick thinks. Sure, some girls might write you off as a geek, but ask yourself this:

Will I lose sleep over that?

or

will I lose sleep over working a job I feel "meh" about to impress other people instead of a job I enjoy where I can make a ton of money?

Easy choice for me. follow the money, and that goes double if the money is in something you enjoy doing.

God damn, so right. So damn right.

I shouldn't sweat the little things because good game and having a nice physique should be damn well enough for most girls.

And if I want to ultimately find love, the kind of girl I would want would be somewhat nerdy and intelligent herself.

Quote: (01-11-2017 11:17 PM)roid Wrote:  

Quote: (01-06-2017 11:49 PM)Paeter Wrote:  

I'm studying software development. The career prospects are good. I like coding. The money can be pretty good. There's the possibility of being location independent. There's always something new to learn, which I think is cool. But I worry about this career choice. It's associated with geeky social lepers. Is it going to be a huge disadvantage? Should I be worried?

- Sylar

Do you want to keep on learning new stuff as you grow older? Software development is a young man's game.

I'm rather interested in joining or starting a startup and going hard to make a small fortune. If that didn't work out, perhaps management positions?

The only other career that attracts me is translator/interpreter because of my love of languages. I enjoy the process of figuring out how to express the same meaning in another language really cool. That is also conveniently a job that can be location independent, although the money is not as great.

I also considered being a French teacher. But the academic life doesn't really excite me.

I cannot think of much else I want to do. I like the idea of working on technology in some capacity. Technology has a feeling of magic to me. You learn some facts about reality, then you put those facts together in a new way, and thereby unlock new capacities for the human race. And you can make excellent bank doing so. That is cool in my opinion, even if chicks think it's lame.

I like to say: "I kill bugs for a living..." it sounds more alpha than software developer, then change the topic and move on to something else or play along with it