EDIT: Last post on this topic in the thread. Will take to PM.

Quote: (11-29-2016 01:23 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

...

No. My statements were accurate.

For example:

Archimedes was indeed originally translated into Latin from Arabic:

Quote:Quote:

Plato of Tivoli's translations into Latin include al-Battani's astronomical and trigonometrical work De motu stellarum, Abraham bar Hiyya's Liber embadorum, Theodosius of Bithynia's Spherica, and Archimedes' Measurement of a Circle.

As was Euclid:

Quote:Quote:

Although known in Byzantium, the Elements was lost to Western Europe until about 1120, when the English monk Adelard of Bath translated it into Latin from an Arabic translation.

The spanish translations of such tests was then brought to europe by Italians such as Fibonacci.

Knowledge has indeed been passed on perfectly fine for hundreds without christianity: The Records of the Grand Historian in China were written a hundred years before christ. Thucydides was written in the fifth century BC.

To put it more bluntly: there is nothing special about christianity that helps it preserve scientific knowledge.

Nothing at all.
Not even Alexandria: Charlemagne's library was also destroyed in a war. Such tragedies do happen.
Not even the Byzantine monks: Rome simply had more written works of significance and that is why such a culture of writing arose.

Without christianity, we would have just had more practical books and much less theology. Nerds like books, autocrats like riches and prestige.

Finally, early christian apologists like Justin Martyr were just as obsessed with the jews as you are. For many years they claimed Plato plagiarized moses and that Pythagoras of all people was heavily influenced by the jews. It's typical wishful thinking: the jews made no scientific contributions of significance in this time period. No reason to mention them at all.

Spencer's Russian wife. Needs to lose a few.

   

Nothing a 5x5 squat session and rough sex therapy can't handle.

7/10, Whiskey Bravo!

Quote: (11-29-2016 04:35 PM)Orion Wrote:  

Quote: (11-29-2016 11:20 AM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  

That's why Patton kicked Hitler's ass.

The Germans were vastly outnumbered, but even more dramatically outgunned. Patton's job was a piece of cake (But he was still a good tactician nevertheless).

When Patton took over the US II Corps in North Africa, it was a mess and morale was in the dumps. The way he turned that unit around was nothing short of miraculous. And the innovations he made to tank warfare were genius and he began them in WWI and perfected them in between world wars by coming up with the brilliant idea of watching training maneuvers from the vantage point of an airplane. Patton's victories in North Africa, then in Italy, and finally in Germany certainly include times when the Germans were not outnumbered nor outgunned. Patton was simply better than them. When defeated German officers were asked about Patton after the war they would lower their heads and mutter, "He is your best."

Patton kicked ass. He would have gone on to become President. Which is, of course, why they killed him.

He looks too young to be dating that whale.

Quote: (11-29-2016 11:02 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

Nothing a 5x5 squat session and rough sex therapy can't handle.

7/10, Whiskey Bravo!

Yeah she's got a great face, and beautiful hair. Just needs to lose a few lbs off the body and possibly breast reduction surgery.

Quote: (11-29-2016 11:25 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

Quote: (11-29-2016 11:02 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

Nothing a 5x5 squat session and rough sex therapy can't handle.

7/10, Whiskey Bravo!

Yeah she's got a great face, and beautiful hair. Just needs to lose a few lbs off the body and possibly breast reduction surgery.

I don't like to bandy about this kind of sentiment, especially not in this kind of thread...

...but you, sir...

...are worse than Hitler.

Quote: (11-29-2016 01:06 PM)Phil Jackson Wrote:  

...
I don't think it's facist to want one's ethnic group to be the majority" is not facist but is racist. That type of delusion is something I would expect from a SJW but not somebody on this forum. What difference does it make if someone has a different racial background that you. They are GENERALLY going to have different values than a white American but that is why LEGAL immigration is important. We vet people from different cultures to make sure they have these same values. If some Indian kids from India can be more productive for a tech firm than some American white kids can and they have the same values, the Indian kids should get the job and be able to be Americans. Their should be restrictions on how many we let in at one time, but we should welcome the best the world has to offer regardless of race.

No, not very effectively you don't.

Who vets them, besides? A coalesced avatar of Uncle Sam, conjured up of the collective consciousness of "the people"?

Nope. It's some faceless dickhead bureaucrat who was installed by Clinton or Obama and never removed by the spineless Republicans who refuse to play the game by the same rules the Democrats do.

You seriously think that most of the recent immigrants to the US give a shit about the US?

One in ten if you're lucky. And that's the whole point. Because immigration has become weaponised against the people it's meant to serve.

So here's the million dollar question. If "American values" enshrine limited government then what's going to stop the government from unlimiting itself by replacing the native population with more compliant drones?

Quote: (11-28-2016 04:53 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

I'm not sure how to categorize myself - am I Alt-Right ? I guess in some aspects yes as far as the anti MSM media, anti globalist, and avid Trump supporter.

At one point I did get rubbed the wrong way about embracing the Nazi Pepe memes, but was brought around the logical reasoning how embracing how the MSM labeled us which was so absurd was hilarious.

I've discussed my views on the "#HeilGate" - if you want to call it that.

They can express it sure, do I like it ? No - I think it was in bad taste.

I'll never condone Nazi's, racial purists, eugenics, etc. The Nazi's losing was a good thing, just like communism falling is a good thing.

I say all of the above with no sarcasm or snark, just pure honest thoughts about the matter.

I'm also trying to grasp the understanding of white nationalism versus white supremacy. (I'll talk more about that later)



What I'm really trying to understand is:

Where do I stand in this new world ?
How do fellow forum members view me in this aspect ?
Am I rejected by one side and embraced by the other ?
Are these labels petty or is this an actual serious movement redirect ?


Many of you know my family immigrated from India/Pakistani. I'm first generation born American who embraces the western lifestyle (I've known nothing else)

Clearly I'm not white - so I can't believe in white nationalism - but maybe nationalism ? Perhaps patriotism is a better word.

I'm not a South Asian nationalist either since I know nothing of the sort, I'm an American by my views first, Indian by genetics second.

I get that whites want to "save their race" and want it to be possible homogeneous as possible and cohesive as well.

But does that include us minorities ?

White supremacy ? Definitely not - however there's the view that whites built this great nation/modern europe/fought the wars etc (you get what I'm saying).

What does that mean for minority allies such as us ?

I'm NOT playing the victim card in any circumstance - but purely asking - Where the hell do our cards lay on such a vast table ?

Uncle Tom will always have his place in the house, but it will never be at the table.

The intention of the Spencer debacle (and the media's usefull idiots) is revealed:

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-...nts-racist

Quote:Quote:

The Associated Press Monday released new guidelines for referencing the "alt-right," which ask that journalists use the term alongside its definition and in context of its association with racist beliefs.

The new guidelines read:

"'Alt-right' (quotation marks, hyphen and lower case) may be used in quotes or modified as in the 'self-described' or 'so-called alt-right' in stories discussing what the movement says about itself. Avoid using the term generically and without definition, however, because it is not well known and the term may exist primarily as a public-relations device to make its supporters' actual beliefs less clear and more acceptable to a broader audience."

The new guidelines come after criticism of media outlets by some observers who view the term has having "normalized" President-elect Donald Trump's nationalistic rhetoric and that of some Trump supporters. Specifically, many object to the term's use alongside senior adviser Stephen Bannon, whose hiring was applauded by neo-Nazi and KKK groups.

Bannon has described Breitbart News, his former outlet, as "the platform of the alt-right."

The new reference went on to say that, "in the past (The AP) have called such beliefs racist, neo-Nazi or white supremacist."

Now the press will call everyone on the right neo-nazis.

Damn, fell right into the trap, no actually went on your own accord right into it.

The media is NEVER your friend.

The result of Cernovich and Paul Joseph Watson trying to distance themselves from neo-nazis, will contra-intuitively actually mean they will now be called neo-nazis.

Quote: (11-28-2016 04:53 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

I've been following this thread pretty closely - I knew a thread like this was imminent even before Spencer made the speech before the media.

The forum has been evolving -from where I first got here I was all about the Game & Lifestyle forum, then dived into the vast political threads on here.

The Trump Thread & Immigration Crisis thread supercharged this discussion.

This thread itself has made obvious what sides people are on - and it's not just 2 sides, but multiple. It's somewhat reared it's head (ugly or not is yet to be determined).

It's also brought some polarizing POV's into the light on here.

There is an Alt-Right yes, but there's also a left and right to the Alt-Right also. Some good some bad.

I'm not sure how to categorize myself - am I Alt-Right ? I guess in some aspects yes as far as the anti MSM media, anti globalist, and avid Trump supporter.

At one point I did get rubbed the wrong way about embracing the Nazi Pepe memes, but was brought around the logical reasoning how embracing how the MSM labeled us which was so absurd was hilarious.

I've discussed my views on the "#HeilGate" - if you want to call it that.

They can express it sure, do I like it ? No - I think it was in bad taste.

I'll never condone Nazi's, racial purists, eugenics, etc. The Nazi's losing was a good thing, just like communism falling is a good thing.

I say all of the above with no sarcasm or snark, just pure honest thoughts about the matter.

I'm also trying to grasp the understanding of white nationalism versus white supremacy. (I'll talk more about that later)



What I'm really trying to understand is:

Where do I stand in this new world ?
How do fellow forum members view me in this aspect ?
Am I rejected by one side and embraced by the other ?
Are these labels petty or is this an actual serious movement redirect ?


Many of you know my family immigrated from India/Pakistani. I'm first generation born American who embraces the western lifestyle (I've known nothing else)

Clearly I'm not white - so I can't believe in white nationalism - but maybe nationalism ? Perhaps patriotism is a better word.

I'm not a South Asian nationalist either since I know nothing of the sort, I'm an American by my views first, Indian by genetics second.

I get that whites want to "save their race" and want it to be possible homogeneous as possible and cohesive as well.

But does that include us minorities ?

White supremacy ? Definitely not - however there's the view that whites built this great nation/modern europe/fought the wars etc (you get what I'm saying).

What does that mean for minority allies such as us ?

I'm NOT playing the victim card in any circumstance - but purely asking - Where the hell do our cards lay on such a vast table ?

White Nationalism does not equal White Supremacy.

White Nationalism = believing that white people too deserve a homeland where they are not only the majority of the population, but are allowed to be proud to say so.

Just because you are not white does not mean you are not welcome. It just means you choose to leave your homeland to live among us, and we simply ask that you do not tell us how we can live in our own homelands.

Your cards lay where you choose them to lay, at least at this time. Which means you can wake up every day realizing our society is built on the rules/laws/freedoms that white people grew to enjoy over centuries and you choose to live by this set of rules. Or you can wake up each day trying to buck the system. It is your choice. I hope it remains that way. With Trump winning, it gives me some hope, but with the national debt and groups like BLM and other Soros groups still causing turmoil, the battle is far from won.

It sounds like you choose to enjoy the same freedoms we have enjoyed in the USA. Which means you are a very welcomed member of society. You are not trying to vote away our freedoms, tax us to death with an increasing welfare state, or calling white people "racist" at any time they simply want a fair shake in hiring, business opportunities or college admissions. So you already make the right choices.

The next step is to identify those that choose to rip apart the fabric of our nation, remove our freedoms, and cause inner turmoil. If they can be minimized, all should be fine. If they grow to large in power, it is going to get very ugly, very fast. I hope to live in peace, as I think most people do, but I also will fight for the freedoms, land, and rights that my forefathers fought to give me.

Quote:Quote:

Patton kicked ass. He would have gone on to become President. Which is, of course, why they killed him.

Is there a flow chart somewhere I can reference where all the conspiracies and assassinations deemed accidents are collected? I want to make sure I'm up to speed on the cabals and secret societies running the world. I know the claimed "assassination" of Patton is based entirely on the alleged interviews by one author with a guy who knew a guy... But let's not have such flimsy evidence stop a good conspiracy.

Also Patton had vast more resources than his opposition at his disposal in all his theatres. It's silly to think that the US somehow fought on even terms with The Reich from 43+. If you want to give credit where it's due it should go to Bradley which was the brains behind Patton in the field and had the spine to stand up to him.

Quote: (11-30-2016 04:26 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

White Nationalism = believing that white people too deserve a homeland where they are not only the majority of the population, but are allowed to be proud to say so.

Just because you are not white does not mean you are not welcome. It just means you choose to leave your homeland to live among us, and we simply ask that you do not tell us how we can live in our own homelands.

In the context of the United States, I really do not understand what this vision could possibly mean. Isn't US demography around thirty-percent non-white? This includes many who were born in the US, whose families have been in the US for generations, even centuries. This is the situation even if you deported every single illegal immigrant and anchor baby, and halted legal immigration immediately. So you're going to tell a huge chunk of the native-born population, many of whose ancestors were brought in by force, that the country really isn't about them? Your position isn't neither reasonable nor well-thought out. On the contrary, it's destructive. Decades of racial tension and rioting would be the obvious result if such ideas grew beyond the small fringe where the currently live.

Quote: (11-30-2016 04:26 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

The next step is to identify those that choose to rip apart the fabric of our nation, remove our freedoms, and cause inner turmoil.

That's an accurate description of White Nationalists.

I am really having a hard time following this thread.

Too many different discussions happening at once. Can we possibly create a new thread for those who want to discuss the following topics:

WW2
Jewish Conspiracies

I know the above topics are tangentially related, but it's becoming hard to separate the signal from the noise in this thread. Don't to come in here demanding anything, but it seems like a few people here love arguing minor points.

As far as the actual discussion goes, I don't really have much to contribute, but the idea of America as some white ethnostate?




I don't say that to be silly or dismissive, but I don't really see how that would work. Good luck getting the other 20% + of the population to agree to that sort of deal.

What are the options if 20% of the population say "nah, we've got a pretty big stake in this country as well"

I never said there had to be a certain % white. But with the national debt at nearly $20 trillion and welfare numbers exploding, cutting off all immigration until we fix this mess isn't a bad idea.

It is already a country founded by white nationalists and their founding laws are still in place for the most part. Where we are at now is fine. But there is a tipping point and that will come through the crash of the USD or something like removing the 2nd amendment.

No one needs to leave at all. But if we vote away our rights or vote in bankruptcy, which we are getting close to, then all bets are off as to what will happen.

I think for many indigenous Northern Europeans, 'whiteness' is used as a short hand for a common identity held through a very long history of relatively settled peoples. Personally I think white nationalism is pining for an era that is gone - education is so poor and so full of indoctrination that most people don't know anything about very much anyway and the ties of patriotism and national identity have been largely severed. Its appeal to me (to the extent such a concept holds an appeal) is the fact that I can trace my family back 500 years - through all the social strata of this country, through the many historical conflicts, and the highs and lows of my nation. Many of my family (including all of the last 3 generations on both sides) have been born abroad, and yet there was no question of which country was home. National identity was not a nebulous thing, it was a means of navigating the world - True North, if you like, for an exploratory people. This rootedness had a significance in ordinary people's lives for hundreds of years, and I have sympathy with those who don't see that as a trivial thing. Equally, whilst I am quite happy to find almost every commonality with a guy of different colour who lives here and is a citizen, I think there is always a legitimate suspicion, given the lack of opportunity to prove otherwise in times of peace, that perhaps his love of country doesn't run so deep or that his willingness to sacrifice for the preservation of the country might not match that of an indigenous person - though of course many different races serve with courage, distinction and sacrifice in our armed forces and their loyalty is as much beyond question as anyone.

Of course, these points of difference have almost no meaning on the day to day basis - far from being a weak argument, the 'I have black friends' thing is often terribly illustrative of the fact that 'race' and 'nationalism' have almost no bearing on how ordinary people go about their lives. It's like when people call Trump a racist - whatever he may say, however inflammatory, the best argument for the fact that he clearly is not is in guys like his butler, guys who are demonstrative of the way in which the man lives his life. It's only really once people stop and try to grapple with the sticky issue of national identity that it becomes more of a problem. In general, I have come to the conclusion that preoccupation with these things is simply a waste of productive energies in most instances. Homogeneity, desirable or not (and some of the chicks posted on this forum would make the staunchest of men question their beliefs), is most likely a thing of the past, as technological advance and the raising up of ordinary people around the world means that more and more immigration and emigration is irresistible.

It's natural to want to preserve what you know as your own, and so I think a degree of tolerance and perhaps even sympathy should be shown towards those who zero in on whiteness as a convenient shorthand for their wish to preserve their country and culture as they know it, or believe it to have been. I think the rising tide of technology will sweep those kinds of beliefs away within a few generations anyway. There is a place for people who hold those views (as distinct from the Nazi fan-boys like Spencer), and their concerns and resistance provide some value in moderating any swing in the opposite direction - something you would hope, on a long enough time line, would benefit all concerned.

As far as the US is concerned, you're a much newer people, though old enough to have a distinct identity. The idea of 'whiteness' as a distinguisher in the states is largely mythical. You are, and have always been, a melting pot of peoples - and the answer for you is obviously just to get on with it. You don't have the same history - you are a nation of immigrants after all. What for us is more of an intrinsic concern that will be dealt with more slowly is for you a distraction. America has always belonged to those chasing opportunity - you're the guys who left to find fortune. For Northern European countries, whiteness has some place in the debate because it has been an entrenched characteristic for thousands of years; for the Americans to place any emphasis on it seems to me to be a fundamental misunderstanding of who you are as a people.

Quote: (11-30-2016 02:52 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Quote: (11-29-2016 11:25 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

Quote: (11-29-2016 11:02 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

Nothing a 5x5 squat session and rough sex therapy can't handle.

7/10, Whiskey Bravo!

Yeah she's got a great face, and beautiful hair. Just needs to lose a few lbs off the body and possibly breast reduction surgery.

I don't like to bandy about this kind of sentiment, especially not in this kind of thread...

...but you, sir...

...are worse than Hitler.

Do I get some kind of an award for this?!! Breast fascist of the week?!

Quote: (11-30-2016 10:24 AM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

Do I get some kind of an award for this?!! Breast fascist of the week?!

We have the breast fascists, don't we folks?

Quote: (11-29-2016 09:55 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

Spencer's Russian wife. Needs to lose a few.

Funnily, I had been following Nina for a couple of years on Twitter and just found out she was/is Spencer' wife last week.

She's quite smart and knows how to troll/rile up Neocons. a smooth operator, translator of Dugin' works from Russian to English (the guy featured in one of Roosh' latest posts).

Quote: (11-30-2016 03:39 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Uncle Tom will always have his place in the house, but it will never be at the table.

Haven't heard from you in awhile OG, hope all is well - but can you expand on that ?

Are you saying I'm an Uncle Tom because you see me as subservient ?

Maybe that I shouldn't be bending/bowing towards their views ?

Quote: (11-30-2016 12:16 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Quote: (11-30-2016 03:39 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Uncle Tom will always have his place in the house, but it will never be at the table.

Haven't heard from you in awhile OG, hope all is well - but can you expand on that ?

Are you saying I'm an Uncle Tom because you see me as subservient ?

Maybe that I shouldn't be bending/bowing towards their views ?

Allow me to illustrate exactly what OGNorCal is saying:

Quote: (11-30-2016 04:26 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

White Nationalism = believing that white people too deserve a homeland where they are not only the majority of the population, but are allowed to be proud to say so.

How about England, or France, or Germany (the fatherland) or Italy?

What the heil did the white folks move out of those countries if an ethnically pure homeland is what they wanted?

Quote: (11-30-2016 04:26 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Just because you are not white does not mean you are not welcome. It just means you choose to leave your homeland to live among us, and we simply ask that you do not tell us how we can live in our own homelands.

So I can stay? Thanks buddy!

A lot of black guys that chose to come her thank you as well. And then the native people, we were just sitting here waiting for the white people to come and take over.

Quote: (11-30-2016 04:26 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

You are not trying to vote away our freedoms, tax us to death with an increasing welfare state, or calling white people "racist" at any time they simply want a fair shake in hiring, business opportunities or college admissions.

Don't forget about when you do the Heil Hitler, minorities need to stop calling you a racist when you do that. Its the Roman Salute.

I think some people have a responsibility problem. Richard Spencer, the super white guy this thread is about had to be sneaky about his Heil Hitlering, and denied doing it on many occasions after, regardless of video proof. He seems to be setting a bad example for the master race with his lack of responsibility.

Is affirmative action hiring really a problem for white people, or does a specific person suck at the job they are applying for and use it for blaming reasons?

I think a few white people are on food stamps and welfare too, but so are minorities, so let's just blame them.

And who are these minorities voting away the white mans freedoms? Are they powerful senators or something? I think one out of 45 us presidents is black, is that who you are referring to?

Quote: (11-30-2016 04:26 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

The next step is to identify those that choose to rip apart the fabric of our nation, remove our freedoms, and cause inner turmoil

This group of people has a little bit of pull in the USA:


Holy smokes, a lot of them are white????

Pack your shit white people.

Aloha!

Kona,

Why did white people move here? To get away from oppression and start a country with freedom to expand and prosper. Europe was full of corruption and overpopulated. They came here, conquered the land, and built a new country based on the principles of the enlightenment and the land/resources to carry it out.

The % of minorities (non Asian) on welfare v. Whites and Asians is not good. You don't want to go there, it is already covered in great detail on the Political forum. Is Affirmative Action with education and hiring and business opportunities a problem? Yes it is, unless you support racism.

It isn't congress that is ripping the country apart. It is the elites pulling the strings and stirring up riots and chaos.

The fact is, looking at the voting exit polls by race, if this country was 50% white and 50% other, Hillary would be President, the congress would be controlled by Democrats, and the whole thing would collapse. This is the reality we Americans must face up to, unless you think we can borrow money forever and feminism should rule and guns should be banned.

Quote: (11-30-2016 05:31 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Why did white people move here? To get away from oppression and start a country with freedom to expand and prosper. Europe was full of corruption and overpopulated.

I'd venture to say that the corrupters and overpopulators were white. So white people moved to America to get away from white people.

Quote: (11-30-2016 05:31 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

The % of minorities (non Asian) on welfare v. Whites and Asians is not good. You don't want to go there, it is already covered in great detail on the Political forum.

Thanks for leaving the Asians out. Hitler was cool with Hirohito.

Quote: (11-30-2016 05:31 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Is Affirmative Action with education and hiring and business opportunities a problem? Yes it is, unless you support racism.

Give me a damn break with the affirmative action argument.

Ask yourself this; Which sentence has been uttered more times in America:
"We cannot hire you because we have to hire a minority to fill our quota."

Or

"I ain't hirin' no coloreds!"

Quit complaining about affirmative action and be so much better that you have to get the job. Or get a better job.

Quote: (11-30-2016 05:31 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

It isn't congress that is ripping the country apart. It is the elites pulling the strings and stirring up riots and chaos.

Congress is mostly white, and always has been. The elites are mostly white, and always have been. 44 out of 45 presidents are white. But white nationalists or supremacists or whatever they want to be called say that minorities are the problem?

Does that even make sense to Richard Spencer?

Where are white people gonna go when the white only Americamgets to corrupt and over populated like Europe did, forcing the white people to come to America in the first place.

It_is_my_time (Jesus I just realized your name) you and your white buddies are focusing your shit all wrong. Instead of focusing on this racist crap and clever ways to hide what you are doing, follow the lead of Donald Trump and Drain The Swamp!

Let this be the time you usher in an era of responsibility. If you want to do the Heil Hitler, do it! Don't call it_something else. If you want to be Nazi's, grow some little moustaches and get out there! Don't call yourself white nationalists or whatever the fuck.

Take some responsibility for the way America is. If America was created by white folks, and has been run by them ever since, quit saying minorities are the problem.

A wise black man once said "You can't pour syrup on shit, and call it pancakes!"

And thanks for deleting that part about my post being intellectually dishonest. You saved me from getting banned.

Aloha!

White people moved to get away from the oppressive monarchy. Do you not know the history of the founding of the USA? Sure the monarchy was white, but the white people who moved away from it did their best to prevent any form of it in their new land.

No, I will not give you a break with affirmative action. It is racism, plan and simple.

No, the elites are not mostly white.

I just simply look at the voting exit polls and face reality. Until this can be rectified, we are heading for chaos, whether that hurts your feelings or not.