Mid-forties white guy living in the northeast, out of shape and sloppy, works among the IT community (but isn't a coder). Has an active social life and doesn't give off the gay vibe at all, but came out of the closet recently. I was't so much as shocked as I was thinking this sounds like a cop out that reminded me of an old RooshV article.

People who know him are evenly split between "Yeah, I'm not surprised" and "Really?" I think it's exactly what Roosh suggested - that some guys who to through their life being horrible with women and having zero self confidence eventually "discover" they are gay. The fact he's in an area (and an age) which supports this behavior does not help. I'm just waiting for the outward behavior to change - manner of speech, dress, social circle, etc. since up till now he had zero manifestations of being gay in any sense of the word.

The decline continues......

Call me a lib but after knowing Milo I realized I don't hate gays for being gay, but for being SJW's.
As long as the dude is not a SJW then I don't see a decline.

There were as many gays 100 years ago as there is now, the only difference is that they didn't come out of the closet. It's a genetic disease, as long as it doesn't turn into activism I'm cool with them.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:28 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

There were as many gays 100 years ago as there is now, the only difference is that they didn't come out of the closet.

You have some sort of sources for that information?

Anyway, this thing is becoming more and more common of men deciding they are gay at a later stage in life. One of my best friends' father came out just a few years ago. Devastated his mother and tore the whole family apart.

I myself can't even begin to theorize why this happens. I for one don't think homosexuality is any kind of predisposed genetic deal. I think it ranges from being trending to being latent childhood trauma manifesting itself into an alternative lifestyle. I'm not gay guru, but I've known plenty of 'mos in my life, one of them being a close friend of mine, and none of them came from stable households. I believe that speaks for something.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:37 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:28 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

There were as many gays 100 years ago as there is now, the only difference is that they didn't come out of the closet.

You have some sort of sources for that information?

Anyway, this thing is becoming more and more common of men deciding they are gay at a later stage in life. One of my best friends' father came out just a few years ago. Devastated his mother and tore the whole family apart.

I myself can't even begin to theorize why this happens. I for one don't think homosexuality is any kind of predisposed genetic deal. I think it ranges from being trending to being latent childhood trauma manifesting itself into an alternative lifestyle. I'm not gay guru, but I've known plenty of 'mos in my life, one of them being a close friend of mine, and none of them came from stable households. I believe that speaks for something.

I would be lying If I told you I had a credible source.

I remember the first time I got a hard on, I was 8 and it was a erotic scene on TV which involved a very attractive female. I got scared.

If I was gay I'd get the same hard on for an attractive male.

I'm pretty confident being gay is something you're born into. It is a disease which is not curable. Maybe living in unstable households exacerbates it more....

Either you are gay or not, its not a choice you can make. If it would be a choice, why had some chose to be gay in times where they got killed, go to prison or face a social stigma? The social pressure is still there, so many pretend to be normal and have a family. And this is the point, the social pressure go away and now more and more confess it open that mostly did hide it in the past. Social environment affect how we behave. The problem is, those that feel so free today would probably had kids in the past but now have none.
For this I keep in mind the story of Matt Kroc that said he keep it secret till his kids did grow up. Man that are gays or trannies and women that are sluts and whores, it was always out there but now the social pressure to hide it is gone.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:50 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

Either you are gay or not, its not a choice you can make. If it would be a choice, why had some chose to be gay in times where they got killed, go to prison or face a social stigma?

Similar reasons the Jews rather let themselves be imprisoned and murdered by the Nazis rather than deny their faith which was 100% their choice. Same reason radical Islamic terrorists put rifles in the hands of their women and children and blow themselves up in the name of their beliefs. Influence is a powerful thing.

EDIT: and there is no "you're gay or not" plenty of gays are "bisexual" and will also fuck with people of the opposite sex.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:28 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

Call me a lib but after knowing Milo I realized I don't hate gays for being gay, but for being SJW's.
As long as the dude is not a SJW then I don't see a decline.

There were as many gays 100 years ago as there is now, the only difference is that they didn't come out of the closet. It's a genetic disease, as long as it doesn't turn into activism I'm cool with them.

I respectfully disagree. First, if homosexuality is genetic wouldn't it breed itself out of the gene pool due to homosexuals having less children than heteros? Wouldn't there also be a correlation between siblings and other family members having increased incidence of homosexuality? (there is not)

Homosexuality is almost definitely a result of congenital and early childhood chemical imbalances leading to increased estrogen levels. This is why 'gaydar' exists and you can often tell a gay man's face from a photo.

Its in the water supply. All the unprocessed estrogen from birth control pills not removed from waste water treatment plants pumped back into rivers and acquifers. 100 years ago BCPs did not exist.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:44 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

There were as many gays 100 years ago as there is now.

This is a bold statement. Not only is there no way of proving this, but the point the OP was making is how many people think they are gay, not actually are.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:44 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

I'm pretty confident being gay is something you're born into. It is a disease which is not curable. Maybe living in unstable households exacerbates it more....

You joined the forum yesterday. I'd advise you to look into a topic more before posting on it and lurk more; speaking from my own experience.

This is worth throwing in.

Quote:Quote:

Eight Major Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality Is Not Genetic

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

(...)

Take that for what it is. I'm not saying this is 100% proof that people cannot be born with homosexuality, but at the very least it is hard evidence in favor of Nature < Nurture.

make him prove it

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:50 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

Either you are gay or not, its not a choice you can make. If it would be a choice, why had some chose to be gay in times where they got killed, go to prison or face a social stigma? The social pressure is still there, so many pretend to be normal and have a family. And this is the point, the social pressure go away and now more and more confess it open that mostly did hide it in the past. Social environment affect how we behave. The problem is, those that feel so free today would probably had kids in the past but now have none.
For this I keep in mind the story of Matt Kroc that said he keep it secret till his kids did grow up. Man that are gays or trannies and women that are sluts and whores, it was always out there but now the social pressure to hide it is gone.

Not necessarily true.

1). Prison and men.

2). College girls who are "LUGs" -- that stands for "Lesbians Until Graduation."

Male sexuality is different than female sexuality in that it's more "fixed," but that doesn't mean it can't be altered -- as the sexuality of long-term male prisoners shows.

To complicate matters more, I've even read things about how male sexuality varies between men of different countries and ethnic groups, with some men being open to being on "the downlow," and others not considering that at all.

Then again...there are cases like my cousin, who was the gayest of the gay even when we were very little kids. There is no way he learned that (esp. not in a macho Italian family like ours) and no matter what his parents did, they couldn't change him. At 40 he is exactly like he was at age 4.

As time goes on, this is turning out to be a more complicated issue than I think people have realized. "Born that way" has some merit, but I think it's a simplistic slogan. Lady Gaga should try telling that to the guy in prison giving blowjobs or facing a gang rape...or the spoiled rich girls in college who "experiment" until they meet a rich(er) guy who will wife them up.

A book called "Brain Sex, The real difference between men and women" (Anne Moir and David Jessel) is a well written examination of the idea of male/female brain development. It says that even more important than androgen levels once children is born, pre-natal exposure to a lack or increase in either testosterone or estrogen on the fetus, results in the formation of the "gay brain". In other words, a male with an over exposure to estrogen/under exposure to testosterone will be clearly effeminate, delicate, and emotional in ways most boys aren't and see themselves as women or are attracted to male sexuality as opposed to the opposite. A girl born with less female androgens and more male androgens will result in a masculine, tomboyish, less-submissive female who will be either a lesbian or identify with their male tendencies.

I believe this is a good hypothesis on why some people seem born gay, and before homosexuality in both sexes was promoted and encouraged by society and the media, the number of gay individuals resided around 5-10%. Obviously in cultures where homosexuality is encouraged, the percentage of self-avowed homosexuals will increase simply because it is an available and sometimes incentivized option.

Why modern men are embracing homosexuality in their old age? My suspicion is that these men are feeling their perceived lack of SMV to the opposite sex and are changing teams in order to remain desirable. That and a combination of a lack of manly activities, endeavors, and fraternizing, with the toxic female androgen-laced physical environment and the ever-present, gay-friendly, social environment is churning out faggots at a higher than normal rate. Why some men would do the aforementioned I can see why,( I have met "bisexual" men who have sex with men the way some guys have sex with fatties or ugly chicks-Its just a hole to engage with, so why not.) They seem more over-sexed than gay. They prefer women but will have sex with a man before being celibate. It is similar to the phenomenon of prison relationships of which many are not rape. Now why a man would do what Bruce Jenner did, I have no idea other than extreme attention whoring.

Female number of self identifying bi or homosexuals has skyrocketed since the fantasy-lesbian image has been promoted heavily by mainstream media and porn. Almost half of today's women identify as gay, bi, or curious. Clearly our hyper-sexualized, media, culture and environment (for women: early menses and sexual development due to hormones in food, etc.) are causing more men and women to express sexual interest in the same sex.

This is a fascinating, cutting-edge, and overdo endeavor: the scientific study of the gender of the human mind and its result on the gender of the body. I believe most of the findings will be RP truths and the SJW's will not be pleased.

I have two sayings I bring to bear when confronted with unfounded gender politics.

"There is no species of primate where the male is equal to the female."
"Specifically defined gender roles, above all, is what allowed human civilization to reach its present status."

Instead of splashing around in the shoals of quasi-intellectualism, we should admit we don't know why some engage in homosexual behavior. Nobody knows. All we have at this point are vague, watery hypotheses, not theories.

There have been way too many threads started recently about gays, feminists and transgenders. These people already get too much exposure in mainstream media; we should not indulge their thirst for endless attention here. I come to RVF to be free of this shit.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:28 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

Call me a lib but after knowing Milo I realized I don't hate gays for being gay, but for being SJW's.
As long as the dude is not a SJW then I don't see a decline.

I'm in a country where speech is carefully-restricted on this topic, so there are no value judgments here, just personal observations of patterns of behaviour:

- You how how viciously women talk about each other? That's Gay Men talking about Professional Gays.

- You'll never untangle White Nationalism and Homosexuality, including the predatory nature of boys being isolated from society by older men, who are the only ones who understand their fear and anger. (1) (2)

A large component of Gay Men see themselves - however delusionally - as Superior, Enlightened Beings, so the Ubermensch fantasy has a powerful pull for them. I read a music writer describe Bowie recently as 'Your standard Gay Nazi...', and she got in a lot of trouble for doing so. My own reaction reading that?



Wherever men gather together and the possibility of Ubermensch fantasies and the related Nationalism might form, Feminists quickly try to seize and control the space:

- the Gay Community's forced submission to Rad Fem ideals in the 70's;

- the current attack / diversification of comics and science fiction novels are to erase men (Superheros are Ubermensch, Pulp and Sci Fi Heroes are physically or intellectually superior - note the absolute hatred for a character like Ender in Ender's Game);

- the vicious destruction and marginalisation of the punk / hardcore scene in the early 80's, which was becoming about masculine pride and strength.

It's telling to notice one of the Social Justice Clique's terrible games from a couple of years back had the main Female POC character go off on an entire out-of-place rant against Nietzsche, saying his works should be 'banned'.

What does this mean for us?

- There's a pre-existing, exploitable fracture point in the Leftist Borg that we won't even have to court, and who will just naturally fall in line with a rightward shift towards traditionalism, particularly if it has a Nationalist drive.

- The Issue of Radical Islam is the Chisel.

- Why shouldn't the right have Useful Idiots?

----

(1) Did anyone see a recent video of Will Smith's children talking about gender fluidity? The language they were using in talking to their audience - "You're too smart to let anyone else decide for you..." - is a classic adult predator's voice , i.e. "You're much smarter / more grown up / advanced than people your age - so you shouldn't listen to older people telling you what is right or wrong."

Either the script was written for them by Sexual Predators, or those children have been preyed upon and are mirroring the behaviour and continuing the cycle of abuse by becoming predators themselves. Be very wary of letting them influence your kids, if you have them.

(2) Being in Europe, I quickly noticed the 'ubiquitous European Gay wearing Lonsdale' archetype. Why? They couple them with a jacket, so you only see the middle four letters, 'NSDA', representing the 'Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei', (the Nazi party).



Whilst one could argue they're just taking style cues from skinheads, the Gay Men I've known are, well, far more Racist and Misogynistic than anyone on this forum.

Amusingly, the brand was tainted enough that Lonsdale had to start Virtue Signaling, whilst still retaining Strong Nationalist Icons like the Union Jack and the Lion. As such, it's perfect Conservative Cuckwear: "We're strong and traditional but look at how not racist we are!"

That's why!

When natural structure of society brakes homosexuality spreads. It is societal disease. Genetics has nothing to do with that. Upbringing has a lot of to do with that according to Milo at least.

Not everybody who got irradiated gets blood cancer and not everybody who smokes gets lung cancer, but statistical probability increases. And the longer we expose our children and yourself to that the higher chance that it could happen.

Quote: (05-31-2016 04:21 PM)GoldHawkStar Wrote:  

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:44 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

There were as many gays 100 years ago as there is now.

This is a bold statement. Not only is there no way of proving this, but the point the OP was making is how many people think they are gay, not actually are.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:44 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

I'm pretty confident being gay is something you're born into. It is a disease which is not curable. Maybe living in unstable households exacerbates it more....

You joined the forum yesterday. I'd advise you to look into a topic more before posting on it and lurk more; speaking from my own experience.

This is worth throwing in.

Quote:Quote:

Eight Major Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality Is Not Genetic

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

(...)

Take that for what it is. I'm not saying this is 100% proof that people cannot be born with homosexuality, but at the very least it is hard evidence in favor of Nature < Nurture.

I had neighbors who had a set of twin boys who both came out as gay, one in his 20's, the other hid it until in his 30's, I don't know what the odds of that would be if it were not genetic in some fashion.

Quote: (05-31-2016 06:12 PM)lovejoy Wrote:  

I had neighbors who had a set of twin boys who both came out as gay, one in his 20's, the other hid it until in his 30's, I don't know what the odds of that would be if it were not genetic in some fashion.

When speaking objectively, individual anecdotal stories barely ground.

^Both twins could have turned out gay because they were raised in almost the exact same environment. They likely had almost identical influences, issues, etc. Most of the homosexuals I've known came from single mother households, or abusive households in one way or another. I don't think it's a coincidence.

I honestly have nothing against gay guys. I just hate the MSM, globalist politicized agenda behind the cause. Gay guys tend to be fun and contrary to popular belief don't usually hit on straight men like many dudes claim. They're socially savvy and successful. Would never have one as a close friend but they're fantastic as party buddies because girls are attracted to them like crazy ... I'm talking voodoo level stuff.

I hate lesbians with a passion though. Never met a real lesbian (not a hipster phase type) who isn't a miserable person with severe mental problems.

Treat the guy as you would any other man - based on character.

Mid 40's "coming out", ?????? either the guy is mentally ill or he is so desperate still being a virgin he is going to fuck gay bum to lose it..........

Quote: (05-31-2016 07:53 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

Would never have one as a close friend but they're fantastic as party buddies because girls are attracted to them like crazy ... I'm talking voodoo level stuff.

That's true. If you don't have at least one or more gay party buddies in asia amongst your social circle you're not doing it right.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:37 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:28 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

There were as many gays 100 years ago as there is now, the only difference is that they didn't come out of the closet.

You have some sort of sources for that information?

Anyway, this thing is becoming more and more common of men deciding they are gay at a later stage in life. One of my best friends' father came out just a few years ago. Devastated his mother and tore the whole family apart.

I myself can't even begin to theorize why this happens. I for one don't think homosexuality is any kind of predisposed genetic deal. I think it ranges from being trending to being latent childhood trauma manifesting itself into an alternative lifestyle. I'm not gay guru, but I've known plenty of 'mos in my life, one of them being a close friend of mine, and none of them came from stable households. I believe that speaks for something.

Perhaps it's weak /susceptible men tipped over the edge by female birth control hormones in the water.

Quote: (05-31-2016 04:00 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:50 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

Either you are gay or not, its not a choice you can make. If it would be a choice, why had some chose to be gay in times where they got killed, go to prison or face a social stigma?

Similar reasons the Jews rather let themselves be imprisoned and murdered by the Nazis rather than deny their faith which was 100% their choice. Same reason radical Islamic terrorists put rifles in the hands of their women and children and blow themselves up in the name of their beliefs. Influence is a powerful thing.

EDIT: and there is no "you're gay or not" plenty of gays are "bisexual" and will also fuck with people of the opposite sex.

The Jews were actually targeted by their ethnicity. Choosing to deny their faith was an option only given to Jehova's Witnesses.

Quote: (05-31-2016 04:21 PM)GoldHawkStar Wrote:  

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:44 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

There were as many gays 100 years ago as there is now.

This is a bold statement. Not only is there no way of proving this, but the point the OP was making is how many people think they are gay, not actually are.

Quote: (05-31-2016 03:44 PM)BlackHat Wrote:  

I'm pretty confident being gay is something you're born into. It is a disease which is not curable. Maybe living in unstable households exacerbates it more....

You joined the forum yesterday. I'd advise you to look into a topic more before posting on it and lurk more; speaking from my own experience.

This is worth throwing in.

Quote:Quote:

Eight Major Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality Is Not Genetic

Eight major studies of identical twins in Australia, the U.S., and Scandinavia during the last two decades all arrive at the same conclusion: gays were not born that way.

“At best genetics is a minor factor,” says Dr. Neil Whitehead, PhD. Whitehead worked for the New Zealand government as a scientific researcher for 24 years, then spent four years working for the United Nations and International Atomic Energy Agency. Most recently, he serves as a consultant to Japanese universities about the effects of radiation exposure. His PhD is in biochemistry and statistics.

Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay.

“Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%,” Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. “If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women.”

Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

(...)

Take that for what it is. I'm not saying this is 100% proof that people cannot be born with homosexuality, but at the very least it is hard evidence in favor of Nature < Nurture.

This is very, very poor understanding of genetics. If this was to be the standard for determining whether something is nature vs. nurture, then the only things that is genetic is Huntington's Disease. Twins with the gene for Huntington's Disease both develop the disorder within about one year of each other, and the only way to get Huntington's Disease is to have the gene. So according to this "science," literally everything else is purely environmental. Even Schizophrenia, which is considered a strongly genetically inherited disease only has an occurrence between identical twins of about 40%.

And this leads me to my second point. There are genes which predict homosexuality with accuracy up to 70%. Epigeneitc theories are the most plausible theories, and that still comes back to genetics.