Quote: (02-03-2016 11:53 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

They really exploded onto the scene when PC culture became a thing.

I remember being a kid and being like "hey fatty, lose some goddamn weight" to fat kids. But then, around high school (2003), it suddenly was not ok to call fat people fat in an amicable fashion.

I think PC culture is a symptom rather than vice versa - the modern beta male had been building up for quite some time; the PC thing apprently became trend in the 1990s.

It probably coincided with increases in obesity and general cultural laziness since it's intended to cater to the lowest common demoninators (the fat, lazy, unemployed, white straight Christian male hating Democrat voter etc) and give them a sense of "power" that they'll never have in real life.

The left probably knew that the legions of lazy, unemployed welfare generations raised by single moms would make an effective 'fighting force' in the 'cultural revolution' - so the PC movement was meant to tap in to their rage and gripes about "how discriminated they are" or "how unfair life is"; now the left can rally them in droves by manufacturing outrage in an attempt to have people fired or silenced who don't tote their party line. Straight from Saul Alinksy's Rules for Radicals.

Quote: (02-02-2016 11:52 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Quote: (02-02-2016 04:33 PM)jackson.henley Wrote:  

I'm not talking about short alpha types. Perhaps I didn't describe the type I had in mind accurately. They tend to have move baby fat around their face, but are just short of obese. I do not remember girls dating them back in 2006. Esp. in a country like Germany. Dateable guys tended to be slim, even if not super good looking. Something shifted dramatically.

With all due respect, and I mean it, it seems as if the incredulity over overweight alphas is reflective of a little personal insecurity over the fact that you maybe feel that women should be with men that you feel are value higher than who they are with - perhaps you or guys that you rank to be more or less on your personal value level.

If these men are behaving like betas, then that is something else. Women can hang around such men for different reasons, but these women tend to have issues unless they are blood relatives of those men.

Sometimes women are with beta men who are good at social signaling or who are mere status signals because of their looks (and hence she gains status by being on the guy's arm) but that isn't game and trust me when I say that that pussy is going to eventually go dry for those guys if they don't have game. Incidentally, my 9.5-ish in looks (very aesthetically German) brother just lost his girlfriend, who was a solid 9, after two years largely because he's clueless about deeper game despite having plowed through dozens of women since having moved to Lower Manhattan six years ago. This is a guy who told me that, when he was living in SOHO amongst celebrities, that no celebrity had anything on his sex life. Upon the surprise breakup, he was as devastated as any unprepared man would be. Next time, he'll be more alpha and keep her for longer. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she is now with a man of lesser looks, and who is even a little chubby, but who is better at relationship game (being consistently alpha). My brother mentioned that she has a history of dating guys with lesser looks.

Being chubby isn't inherently beta in the real world of male-female interaction. Though, I agree that alpha-behavior has to be more on-point if a guy is aesthetically challenged. Though, my view is that the alpha-factor should always be cranked up to the highest level, making the aesthetic factor always only marginally relevant within limits.

Again, no respect intended. Seriously. It's just unusual that someone would worry over the type of guys that women have a sexual interest in. The sexual interest of women tends to be pretty predictable, and I'm going to venture that these women aren't actually doing anything unusual. That is, these men have something going for them that is giving them fuck-worthy value above what is generally on-offer. An alpha personality will convey that value.

Game is about keeping that pussy wet for the indeterminate life of the relationship: five weeks or fifty years. That's what she wants, and it has very little to do with looks in the long term and within certain rare limits.

If you perceive other things to matter in Germany, you simply aren't used to overweight men or overweight alpha men. That's understandable given the culture. In the USA, overweight alphas are plentiful and if you were here you would have witnessed the fact that weight largely doesn't matter given enough alpha-ness. This would be a good observation for you, because thinking that game is somehow intimately connected with looks, past a first impression, will inhibit your game in general no matter what environment you are in.

One has to get to a point where they can turn around a girl's interest in that she re-categorizes you from friend zone (perhaps given initial first impression due to being overweight) to sexual threat with one line. When you can do that, you and she will unequivocally know that you are an alpha and she will often behave accordingly.

I wish I had some images to explain the type I'm talking about. I'm not talking about short alpha that clearly pop out as alphas due to body language, etc. I'm talking about guys who would fold given the slightest bit of pressure. You see them around all the time now, not so 10 years ago.

I disagree with you that it doesn't matter what type of man women are "attracted" to. (I am using that word loosely, since I doubt that all relationships are sexual)
It is my belief that even though there are enough women to game, this pool is shirking due to a neo-puritan trend.

But if reflecting on the greater historic context makes me insecure, so be it.

Quote: (02-02-2016 01:48 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  

Quote: (02-02-2016 01:09 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I think it goes back longer than that, guys. I remember these sorts of physical types even in the 1990s. There was a slow evolution of it all through the 90s, but the new millenia really saw a big uptick in volume. The economic collapse, total surrender of the establishment to feminism, and years of morale-destroying, anti-male culture then really took its toll.

And keep in mind that appearances can be deceptive. Just because some guys is in shape, does not necessarily mean he is not a "beta." By the same token, just because some guy is currently a flabby marshmallow, does not mean that he can't improve himself.

I know it's rare, and it's not the rule, but positive change can happen. I suspect that there are a lot of flabby neckbeards out there who have some potential, if only given the right conditioning, environment, and guidance.

Don't give up on those guys yet. It's tempting, and I'll admit that a real turnaround is rare, but you never know.

.

Agreed, I'd say late 90s saw the rise of the beta, coincided almost exactly with the rise of the internet.

I'd say the introduction of TV in the 50s & 60s was the first catalyst that split the sexual market down the middle, that was when the difference between the OG alphas and betas was made known for the whole world to see. After Elvis and rock & roll was unleashed on the world, women went crazy with sexual desire for the OG alpha playboy from coast to coast. Since anyone could turn on their TV and see alphas at work across the world, for women the lovable beta guy next door was placed in stark contrast, and the sexual market has never been the same since then. The baby boomers and people from that generation who were teens in the 60s went on to marry and have kids in the 70s and 80s, so the first generation of betas raised in the modern media era would be coming to adulthood as teens in the late 90s. This coincided almost exactly with the rise of the internet in the late 90s, which has unleashed a beta plague on the world we never thought was possible.

A bit off topic, but Elvis Presley was no Alpha. Elvis was many things, but an Alpha Male he was not. In fact, Elvis is perhaps a prime example of an Omega male, and how drastically fame can alter a man's SMV.

Quote: (02-03-2016 05:39 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

A bit off topic, but Elvis Presley was no Alpha. Elvis was many things, but an Alpha Male he was not. In fact, Elvis is perhaps a prime example of an Omega male, and how drastically fame can alter a man's SMV.

He was good looking, but I agree that fame can create an illusion of "alpha status".

Plus when musicians or entertainers "make it big" it's typically through a huge stroke of luck, and likely doesn't require the actual hard work and discipline that would be required for example, to pass Navy SEAL training or become a high-ranking officer in a branch of the military. (In fact full-time, non-platinum selling musicians probably work a lot harder than the hugely successful ones much of the time, since they do it year round all on their own dime).

Another example is the rock musician Nikki Sixx from Motley Crue - his stage image is that of a "bad boy alpha" and I'm sure he had tons of groupie sex, but I've heard him on the radio and he sounds like a complete beta male pussy, about as "alpha" as the average college freshman.

There's an evolution going from early 90s and onwards.

80s we have Cosby show which is alpha and only alpha, confident, competent male.

Late 80s and early 90s brings the first in Cheers (Norm, the Postman guy) and Fresh Prince (Carlton). Here we have confident, but incompetent men, culminating in full on incompetent but confident in Al Bundy - and that's your first and very influential modern beta portrayal.

Then we Seinfeld, again with George the incompetent, but confident man.

Friends is the first to show incompetent and unconfident men - Chandler and Ross, which follows with Everyone Loves Raymond and that fat delivery guy show. Some throwbacks with Jim Belushi in his sitcom.

The latest evolution of course is fully incompetent man with no confidence which is basically found in every sitcom made these days.

Friends and Married With Children - as hot as Kelly was to my teenage self - is definitely the onset. In conclusion, mid 90s is the birth of the beta.

Quote: (02-03-2016 01:33 PM)jackson.henley Wrote:  

I wish I had some images to explain the type I'm talking about. I'm not talking about short alpha that clearly pop out as alphas due to body language, etc. I'm talking about guys who would fold given the slightest bit of pressure. You see them around all the time now, not so 10 years ago.

I wouldn't worry about them. They aren't doing much with those women, at least not for any significant length of time; short of being perhaps a pseudo-girlfriend. Some might even be gay.

If she's actually into them, then they have something that you probably aren't registering; but it isn't a beta trait that is a new trend in what attracts females.

I graduated in the mid 2000's and back then it seemed ok to call someone a fag and say shit like "you're so fucking gay"

The last 5 years or so it seems like peoples jaws drop if you say fag or even use the word retard.

Everything on tv now has a fag in it or an interracial couple. For example, TV commercial will have a black guy with a white girl an Asian guy with a latino girl and two white guys kissing.

I'd say things have gone downhill fast since 2010.

I think you'll find it first began to happen when nerds became cool or useful to the powers that be. That is: when computers were about a generation into home use, call it the early nineties or so. When you could make a buck out of an aspie better than you could make a buck out of a guy who is mentally or physically strong, the market would select for that. See: Comic-Con.

Computers fundamentally changed our society. The Internet has vastly accelerated the speed and volatility of those changes.

Quote: (02-02-2016 10:15 AM)jackson.henley Wrote:  

We all know the look: The over-weight, puffy-faced (often with beard to compensate for lack of testosterone)

hey, nothing more masculine than a beard mate

It started in the late 1980's or early 1990's. Fortunately, I was a teenager in the 1980's and have wonderful memories of MTV, hard rock, and shows like the Headbanger's Ball. There were groups like Motley Crue, Poison, and Ratt. That music was pure, unapologetic testosterone. The men in these groups banged groupies (many were probably underage) at every concert and bragged about it.

Then this was replaced by grunge. They were almost trying to be social activists. Not to mention, the tone was sometimes depressing. It's no surprise that the icon of grunge committed suicide.

Television also was a factor. In the 1970's, we had men like Fonzie on Happy Days and Bo and Luke Duke. Even Jock and JR Ewing on Dallas had qualities a red pill man could admire.

In the late 1980's, we got men like Al and Bud Bundy on Married with Children and Dan Conner on Roseanne. Men were portrayed as incompetent and stupid.

Quote: (02-03-2016 06:05 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

80s we have Cosby show which is alpha and only alpha, confident, competent male.

Late 80s and early 90s brings the first in Cheers (Norm, the Postman guy) and Fresh Prince (Carlton).

Actually Cheers started two years before Cosby did. Sam Malone was generally a competent man who still had issues. Of course, he was also banging women all the time and loving it. Then he falls for Diane. Sam was also a man who was trying to put his life back together after ruining his baseball career with alcohol.

And don't forget about Woody and Coach. They were somewhat confident, but also hopelessly naive.

Quote:Quote:

Here we have confident, but incompetent men, culminating in full on incompetent but confident in Al Bundy - and that's your first and very influential modern beta portrayal.

Sad but true, that is what Al was. I didn't think of it at all back then.

Quote:Quote:

Then we Seinfeld, again with George the incompetent, but confident man.

That's true.

Quote:Quote:

Friends and Married With Children - as hot as Kelly was to my teenage self - is definitely the onset. In conclusion, mid 90s is the birth of the beta.

Another show I want to ad is Family Ties. Steven Keaton was definitely weak and often seemed clueless as to what was going on, not to mention a hippie sellout. The show made up for this with the character of Alex Keaton, who was ambitious, smart, and politically smart. It's funny that the parents were initially supposed to be the focus of the show. Then the producers found that the kids were more popular than the hippies.

Quote: (02-03-2016 05:44 PM)EDantes Wrote:  

Quote: (02-03-2016 05:39 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

A bit off topic, but Elvis Presley was no Alpha. Elvis was many things, but an Alpha Male he was not. In fact, Elvis is perhaps a prime example of an Omega male, and how drastically fame can alter a man's SMV.

He was good looking, but I agree that fame can create an illusion of "alpha status".

Plus when musicians or entertainers "make it big" it's typically through a huge stroke of luck, and likely doesn't require the actual hard work and discipline that would be required for example, to pass Navy SEAL training or become a high-ranking officer in a branch of the military. (In fact full-time, non-platinum selling musicians probably work a lot harder than the hugely successful ones much of the time, since they do it year round all on their own dime).

Another example is the rock musician Nikki Sixx from Motley Crue - his stage image is that of a "bad boy alpha" and I'm sure he had tons of groupie sex, but I've heard him on the radio and he sounds like a complete beta male pussy, about as "alpha" as the average college freshman.

Fellas, Elvis was seen as being so dangerous to society back in the day the US Government rigged the draft to put him in the Army.They thought it would kill he's fame.And you know what he went into the army,the fucker didn't hide.

https://youtu.be/rSojtkl4hB8


Elvis was fucking a string of good looking woman ,cheating like a mother fucker on all he's girlfriends.Thats why he was getting dumped.Further more he had a habit of going after other men's women.This caused Elvis to get into many fist fights with jealous boyfriends and husbands.

Elvis was the fucking Apex Alpha of the fucking World back in the day.That's why they called him The King after all.SMV???I'd say no man in history has ever had the World wide SMV even as a fat fuck as Elvis did.

The dude changed history with music ,a whole sub culture called rock 'n roll only got kicked off because of one man.Elvis.

He caused a sexual revolution and the power of the teenager.

The Beatles,The Stones etc, etc and all the music of today.Would not be as it is without Elvis...

So give a dude the choice you can be omega??? like Elvis was or Beta like Nikki Sixx sounds. or super PUA Alpha ,Tyler, Roosh or whoever..
I'd be like, fuck Alpha PUA, give me Rock'n roll and I'm sure my inner game will develop.

Dudes worked hard in the day and now, luck for a musician only looks like luck cause these dudes have been working on their craft since they were like 6 years old.

Elvis had the voice, the musical talent ,the looks and sex appeal...and was white but sang like a black dude...he wasn't handed fame on a platter though.

People sit back today with all the porn, music, etc in the World at their finger tips. They forget back in the 50's shit was way different.

Watch the whole 4 minutes. See how Rock n' Roll was seen at 2.40 mins

https://youtu.be/71q659qYSOY

I'll second the late 1980s opinions.

I remember seeing around 1989 a clip on the nightly news or some news program like 20/20 about "the new man for the Nineties", describing how the arriving decade would bring with it a masculinity that was more in touch with its feminine side. For examples, they included a few scenes from some then-new movies, with male characters crying girlishly, groveling with a woman to not leave, and generally acting like females-with-penises.

These thoroughly-modern males were described as "sensitive, new-age guys". From which we X-ers gleaned the old-school term for manginas: SNAGs.

As for pop culture, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned "ThirtySomething".

Quote: (02-02-2016 12:43 PM)dispenser Wrote:  

Confusion of adult female diets with male diets or children's diets. I once met a woman who fed her children rice crackers because they are "healthy."
For the same reasons, dietary fat is now considered unhealthy.

This, big time.

Men are getting dietary and fitness advice that works for women, but does not work for men.

Diets like raw veganism, and low fat diets* do not fucking work for men. Yes, we need to eat more vegetables overall, but we also need fucking protein and fats too.

Constant steady state cardio and no resistance training DOES NOT FUCKING WORK FOR MEN.

I'm preaching to the choir here obviously, but this is yet another way men are deceived in modern society that isn't touched on often.


* except RFL, and even Lyle McD says RFL is only sustainable for a short time (2-6 weeks)

Quote: (02-22-2016 07:31 AM)Green-On-GO Wrote:  

Quote: (02-03-2016 05:44 PM)EDantes Wrote:  

Quote: (02-03-2016 05:39 PM)rw95 Wrote:  

A bit off topic, but Elvis Presley was no Alpha. Elvis was many things, but an Alpha Male he was not. In fact, Elvis is perhaps a prime example of an Omega male, and how drastically fame can alter a man's SMV.

He was good looking, but I agree that fame can create an illusion of "alpha status".

Plus when musicians or entertainers "make it big" it's typically through a huge stroke of luck, and likely doesn't require the actual hard work and discipline that would be required for example, to pass Navy SEAL training or become a high-ranking officer in a branch of the military. (In fact full-time, non-platinum selling musicians probably work a lot harder than the hugely successful ones much of the time, since they do it year round all on their own dime).

Another example is the rock musician Nikki Sixx from Motley Crue - his stage image is that of a "bad boy alpha" and I'm sure he had tons of groupie sex, but I've heard him on the radio and he sounds like a complete beta male pussy, about as "alpha" as the average college freshman.

Fellas, Elvis was seen as being so dangerous to society back in the day the US Government rigged the draft to put him in the Army.They thought it would kill he's fame.And you know what he went into the army,the fucker didn't hide.

https://youtu.be/rSojtkl4hB8


Elvis was fucking a string of good looking woman ,cheating like a mother fucker on all he's girlfriends.Thats why he was getting dumped.Further more he had a habit of going after other men's women.This caused Elvis to get into many fist fights with jealous boyfriends and husbands.

Elvis was the fucking Apex Alpha of the fucking World back in the day.That's why they called him The King after all.SMV???I'd say no man in history has ever had the World wide SMV even as a fat fuck as Elvis did.

The dude changed history with music ,a whole sub culture called rock 'n roll only got kicked off because of one man.Elvis.

He caused a sexual revolution and the power of the teenager.

The Beatles,The Stones etc, etc and all the music of today.Would not be as it is without Elvis...

So give a dude the choice you can be omega??? like Elvis was or Beta like Nikki Sixx sounds. or super PUA Alpha ,Tyler, Roosh or whoever..
I'd be like, fuck Alpha PUA, give me Rock'n roll and I'm sure my inner game will develop.

Dudes worked hard in the day and now, luck for a musician only looks like luck cause these dudes have been working on their craft since they were like 6 years old.

Elvis had the voice, the musical talent ,the looks and sex appeal...and was white but sang like a black dude...he wasn't handed fame on a platter though.

People sit back today with all the porn, music, etc in the World at their finger tips. They forget back in the 50's shit was way different.

Watch the whole 4 minutes. See how Rock n' Roll was seen at 2.40 mins

https://youtu.be/71q659qYSOY

Yeah I don't get how Elvis could be anything but the King of Alphas. Maybe it's because a lot of us weren't around back then so we don't understand how powerful he was as a performer, but he really did start the sexual revolution that changed so much socially and culturally in the USA. Girls lost their minds when they saw him perform, parents made their girls leave the room when he came on because they could see them instantly hitting puberty. He wasn't allowed to be shown from the waist down because women would lose their minds with sexual desire when he shook his hips. And I agree him being such a prominent performer when TV was being introduced, that he may have had one of the highest SMVs ever at that time. He was pretty much the first alpha male broadcast nationwide and was the archetype for 50s and 60s era men that all the girls wanted and all the guys wanted to be like. He made all the other guys next door look beta by contrast...and after the spotlight was on The King Alpha, and the difference was highlighted for women in black & white, the era of the beta male was born.

I'll give credit to many of those types that in the end, at least they don't get taken for a ride as easily as stereotypical beta. I know a guy who is an effeminate liberal that socializes with women that he doesn't get laid with, but for example not in the craziest dream will pay their drinks or provide for them in any way. They kind of see each other totally as disposable.

As preached many times before, provider beta is world's ultimate loser.

That being said, men who won't fit either in beta or freak population, is getting more and more lonely in a spiritual sense. You can socialize with everyone sure, and chit chat about bunch of everyday nonsense, but those are not real conversations. It's just people having monologues together about nothing of importance.

Quote: (02-02-2016 11:03 AM)Only One Man Wrote:  

I wouldn't consider these kinds of guys "beta males". I'd call these guys manginas, SJWs, or hipster faggots. When I think of a traditional "beta male" I just think of a normal guy who works hard and is well meaning but just doesn't have a dominant personality and isn't really aware of female nature or other red pill ideas.

It annoys me how a lot of people on the forum automatically equate betas to low T male feminist SJW types. The vast majority of men have been and will always be beta, as beta and alpha only exist relative to each other. If everyone is alpha then no one is alpha.

Though I've criticized it as deceptively insufficient in the past, there's some obvious utility to Vox Day's taxonomies. In his system, a "delta" is the rank to which most men should aspire as that is where they will be most happy. Most male SJWs fall into "Gamma" category, though some may be deltas with low social intelligence or anti-social sigmas.

For a quick recap:

Alpha - Socially dominant, charismatic, leader of men, prime object of female desire.

Beta - Attractive men who do well with women but clearly don't have the same charismatic magnetism as an alpha. Heartiste's "Lesser Alpha" to "High Beta."

Delta - The average male, who ideally pairs with an average female. The Delta ideal is reasonably masculine without the exceptional dominance of alphas or social savvy of betas.

Gamma - Sexual reject males who fail to either grasp of sexual dynamics or perform at an effective level, but nevertheless may have reasonable social acumen. This category is prone to delusion, psychological projection, resentment, obsessiveness, and other warped ideas about romantic behavior.

Omega - The unfortunate bottom rung of the heirarchy. They either hate women or ignore them entirely.

Sigma - Anti-social bad boys. Sigmas lack the social dominance of alphas, but retain the zero-fucks-given attitude and thus can still pull pussy at alpha levels.

Lambda - Gays.

Quote: (02-23-2016 02:05 AM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

Diets like raw veganism, and low fat diets* do not fucking work for men. Yes, we need to eat more vegetables overall, but we also need fucking protein and fats too.

I dabbled in this I must admit, but only as a three-week cleanse before going back and eating the same stuff I did before (I ate like absolute shit during my downtime from oral surgery where I could not do physical activity). But chicks turn it into a lifestyle; which is virtually impossible for a male (who needs 2000-2500 calories minimum daily) to do.

Al Bundy was no Beta. A loser, sure. But never beta.

Raw veganism could be sustainable in the short term as long as you're careful with what you eat and where you get your protein sources (no soy), continue lifting, do other testosterone increasing habits, and supplement properly (zinc, vitamin D, magnesium, etc) . It doesn't work for men in the long term.

Quote: (02-22-2016 10:22 PM)Alsos Wrote:  

I remember seeing around 1989 a clip on the nightly news or some news program like 20/20 about "the new man for the Nineties", describing how the arriving decade would bring with it a masculinity that was more in touch with its feminine side. For examples, they included a few scenes from some then-new movies, with male characters crying girlishly, groveling with a woman to not leave, and generally acting like females-with-penises.

These thoroughly-modern males were described as "sensitive, new-age guys". From which we X-ers gleaned the old-school term for manginas: SNAGs.

Oh god I remember this. The "sensitive new age 90's males", who shared their feelings with women and cried in public. That was a gigantic shit test that the majority of Xers and early millenials failed miserably.

There are three things that it's acceptable for a grown ass man to cry IN PRIVATE over: 1. death of a family member (this includes pets) 2. loss of a steady long-term job 3. intense spiritual or religious experiences
No one is asking men to be emotionless robots, but crying in public and/or over trivial things is unacceptable. We need to be the rock.

I think it was the 90s – I remember the 80s being about looking good and having a good time, and then in the 90s guys were miserable and dressed like shit. Things got dark (and pussified) in the 90s.

Quote: (03-01-2016 04:38 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

Oh god I remember this. The "sensitive new age 90's males", who shared their feelings with women and cried in public. That was a gigantic shit test that the majority of Xers and early millenials failed miserably.

There are three things that it's acceptable for a grown ass man to cry IN PRIVATE over: 1. death of a family member (this includes pets) 2. loss of a steady long-term job 3. intense spiritual or religious experiences
No one is asking men to be emotionless robots, but crying in public and/or over trivial things is unacceptable. We need to be the rock.

In the UK we were raised on the British “stiff upper lip” and told not to show emotions in public. In the Italia ‘90 (1990 Soccer World Cup) Paul Gascoigne (an English soccer player) commited a foul and in the semi final of the world cup, the foul caused him to be banned from the final. He started crying and was seen as a hero in England.



Another outpouring of crying was the funeral of Princess Diana in 1997. Millions of random people were crying over somebody they didn’t personally know, and who was no saint. Look at the insane amounts of flower which were left outside her palace:



It was a moment of mass hysteria and when something was attempted on the first anniversary of her death nobody cared.

Things have been getting more retarded ever since…

I went on Youtube looking for the 20/20 segment in question and found this:






This is a female singer straight up making fun of "sensitive new age guys" at pretty much the genesis of the SNAG phenomenon.

How did so many guys fail such an obvious shit test? I was a little kid just starting grade school so that was my excuse.

There have been many stages in the "beta-ization" of the modern male. Let's see how far back we can go:

1. Rudolph Valentino became a matinee idol in the 1910s and 1920s; he was derided as effeminate for his use of pomade and his mannerisms. Some say he feminized American men.

2. Ever watch the old Blondie & Dagwood films? Dagwood is a perfect beta, although he at least has a sexy wife who seems to love him.

3. Jerry Lewis popularized humor at the expense of the beta male in the 1950s.

4. Actors with more feminine facial features become prominent, e.g., Tab Hunter, Montgomery Clift, and several other "pretty boys."

5. The Beatles hit it big in the USA in 1964; long hair on men becomes popular, as well as more androgynous posturing.

6. The 1960s' counterculture expands, promoting pacifism, feminism, a rejection of traditional masculinity, as well as a sweeping reform in higher education.

7. Rock and roll becomes even more androgynous and glam in the 1970s.

8. Gays become more sympathetic and tragic figures in the 1980s as AIDS ravages their community.

9. Will and Grace helps make homosexuality more palatable to audiences.

10. Androgynous actors in the 1990s include Johnny Depp and River Phoenix and Leonardo Di Caprio.

11. Sex and the City has a huge impact on women.

12. Lena Dunham, for inexplicable reasons, becomes a cultural force.

13. Two generations of college students have now been taught to reject traditional masculinity.

14. The ascent of Hillary Clinton.

Good comment as well.

One thing that occurred to me was that there have always been hippies, but the feminization of males really stepped up in the 90s. Mike Judge is somebody we have praised on here for his all too accurate satire of American social behavior, so I think it is fitting I refer to him. The entire Beavis and Butthead show is mocking the "MTV Generation". While the show is patently ridiculous on so many levels it is relatively correct assessment of how things were headed: a generation of teens with no visible parenting, raised entirely by television and who as a result who are utterly ignorant of anything that is not pop culture, who lack any masculine physical attributes(the two are repeatedly shown as physically weak), and who sexually pedestalize/fetishize women without having the slightest sexual appeal or game.

We did not recognize it at the time but Mike Judge sure as hell did.


Also women not liking these wimps is not new. Look up a video titled "thank god the beefcake is back".