I'll try to keep this short with basic points without holding anything vital back.

I'm 30 and the last time I had sex with a girl and or a relationship was 2008.

I had a rough childhood due to my father dying at age 10 and being raised by a semi-feminist, bitter mother and with a step father who although wasn't abusive physically, was in full agreement on any matters that would get me away from my mother or he was there but generally neglectful as he never wanted his own kids.
My older brother was an abuser - physical and mental.

Though considering some of these circumstances and the world today, I am semi-successful in terms of finding a means to earn money in a 'career' I am not really passionate about other than a wage and not stuck in the town I grew up in all my life.

For the last 10 years or so I have struggled with anxiety, I used to get bad panic attacks in public but not anymore.
I've also been diagnosed with depression, with a few short intervals on anti-depressants back in my early 20s - though I never liked them and all the research i have done on them has led me to never try them again.

I get laughed at and grinned at in public all the time and for what has felt like forever... at least twenty people per day depending.
Who am I then - Elephant man? no.

I am average height, full head of hair, eat well, have exercised with both weights and body weight. Dress well and mature with style, never been fat. You could say I am baby faced though the last 3ish years I have grown into it and sometimes sport a beard. I usually get guessed at a few years younger than my age. Obviously this was more pronounced in my earlier 20s.

The last few years I been on an off unemployed, using my mothers house as a base. I would stay a few months then try to get something going in another city. Though with the economic climate and my industry I have only had short contracts and needed to return home.

So basically - I have been to FIVE DIFFERENT CITIES and pretty no where in all that process has ONE women at least brought some sort of action to make me confident in a glimmer of hope for that part of my life. Obviously with so much moving around it has been hard to make friends or enter other social circles also.
In all these places I have been going out and doing things by the way.

It is very strange as I was an early bloomer in life, as a kid and teen I was usually the one getting interest from girls. I had two LTRs in my late teens, early 20's. Both slutty women whom I almost put rings on and knocked up but (luckily) dodged the bullets all while drumming up oneitis for them.

I've never married or had kids, I have NO DEBT or mortgage, these things do not matter. I am highly passionate and romantic, but not a softy, and was considered a natural at one stage. Doesn't matter either. I have taken plenty of steps to Kill the Beta also, but I can only say that the fact is I am not attractive to women now and it is seemingly increasing (even when legend has it that it 'gets better' for men), some women I see even basically laugh at me, whilst some seem to give me IOI's and then the next day are completely different.

I have pined for sex every day since then expecting that any day now I will be back in the game, so it would seem with so much time passing that I have been living a lie and I have finally realized it is not the world but me and it is a waste of time.
Yes I have used porn and I have gone without it as a trial.

I was 23, 25, 27 etc - trying my hardest to turn things around BEFORE it is too late and i am too old, wanting to live a good life or create more opportunity. My moving around and some of the story here at least offers some proof of that.

But if every path is the wrong one - what then?
Why is suicide such a 'taboo' if all you get are zeros? wouldn't you think the same in my shoes?
Do I look to the MGTOW movement and find some sort of believability in it? is it possible to forget women and live happily for myself?

First, welcome to the forum.

In my experience, this is the best place out there for men like yourself seeking to turn their lives around and get what they can from life. It's full of masculine-minded, successful, goal-oriented men who are always willing to help. But keep in mind that the advice you get is real and raw, and no one here is going to bullshit you. So I'm not going to bullshit you either.

To the meat of it—I've read every word of what you typed, and no, you're not "unsaveable." Not even close.

Is MGTOW the right road for you? I don't know, it sounds like you're living that "life without women/men going their own way" thing right now, and it sounds pretty bad.

Would I consider suicide if I were in your shoes? That's really an existential question. Is life worth living for anyone? Because getting "all zeros" isn't the reason you'd contemplate suicide. You don't get all "zeros." You've had successes, you're blessed with things in the physical realm that other guys aren't so lucky to have, and you have a family to fall back on when you're between jobs. You aren't at rock bottom. If I would be contemplating suicide in your shoes, then that would be to contemplate the worth of life in general. Nothing about your life seems exceptionally terrible. A lot of it seems mental based on what you've just written.

Some of us on the forum have gone through similar trials as you, some have been raging successes from the beginning in all aspects of life, and some of us have had to build ourselves from far worse than what you've laid out here. Some of us have been anorexic, suffered through feminist dogma in universities and single-mother households, lived in strange places for months on end with no friends around to help us, been hunted by mobs of anti-male freaks, been slandered in the media as a literal rape advocate, been homeless, been involved in crime, or are permanently disabled in some way. Some of us are bald, fat, etc. Some of us have been left out in the cold by everyone and counted out.

And the majority of us have pulled through it all and come out on top, or on the fast track to getting there.

It's all about being just a little happier today than yesterday. It's not about the quick happiness of a power nap or a day off or a hit of coke or a laugh at an old rerun of Seinfeld. It's about the enduring contentment in yourself and what you've done. We're men, and men need to build. So consider today to be the first day of the beginning of an enduring legacy—a new path completely—that you will build for yourself. You choose to live on, learn things the hard way, flavor the world with your salty sweat and rip out what's yours. This is exactly the place for that.

It sounds like the thing you need to work on the most is game (and to man up a bit, because your life isn't as bad as you perceive it). If you want to get good feedback on what you need to do to make yourself more sociable with girls (and not get laughed at for seemingly no reason, which I'm sure there's a reason for or else you're delusional and it's all in your head), fill out the WIA Game Diagnostic:

Quote:Quote:

Diagnostic for game?

1) Step 1

You see a cute girl standing by herself

What do you do next

- as you stand there
- as you walk over - what do you do
- first words - what do you say
- her first negative reaction - what do you say and do
- her first positive reaction... - what do you say and do

And how do you take that good reaction and get her into bed that very night?

2) Step 2

It's Friday Night, 6 pm. School/Work is over.

You're going to go out and find some ass.

In your own words, tell me what you do.

@ 6:30
@ 7:00
@ 8:00
@ 9:00 pm
@10
@ 11
@ 12
@1 am
@2 am
@ 3 am

Good luck.

Hello,

Obviously I am not new to the 'red pill' movement and motions towards higher masculinity for men in this day and age. I've stayed with the community on and off over the years and through some action, general intelligence and luck I am here, at least free with myself (And never 'lonely', i actual feel proud in my lone wolf ways, going where I want) with thankfully no baggage left over from some whorish girl either.

My problem is I've been living a life I always wanted to avoid in regards to social confidence and losing the ZFG sort of attitude of my early life & late teens.

I wouldn't at all say I am 'blessed' with anything however, I hope I didn't come across that way - I was basically trying to say
that even though I am seemingly 'normal' or have attributes that could be considered attractive for a 30 year old male. The real picture is quite the opposite.
Confidence it seems does trump everything.

Even though I am not alone on the earth and have some family, most of them have done their best to make me feel guilty every step of the way.
If I had never tried to do anything or have aspirations, they would have no ammunition to bring me down with, but because I failed and try again. I was an easy target (Possibly because they never had any grand plan to even leave where they were born etc) I actually have also been homeless for short periods of time.

It's all about being just a little happier today than yesterday. It's not about the quick happiness of a power nap or a day off or a hit of coke or a laugh at an old rerun of Seinfeld. It's about the enduring contentment in yourself and what you've done. We're men, and men need to build. So consider today to be the first day of the beginning of an enduring legacy—a new path completely—that you will build for yourself. You choose to live on, learn things the hard way, flavor the world with your salty sweat and rip out what's yours. This is exactly the place for that.

I have heard iterations of this and I can understand it, just really feels personally for me that it has been two steps forward five steps back for way too long.

The past few weeks I have been keeping the idea of ZFG attitude in my head, controlling the frame etc with sprinkles of it showing how it could work and proof of its concept.
Though I can ASSURE you that being laughed at is a real thing and I have always wished it WAS delusion or paranoia, because it would mean there is nothing wrong with me physically or socially. I can only assume that the years spend feeling anxiety and panic created big voids in my confidence and my general 'chi'. I burn a lot of adrenalin most days which doesn't exactly instill good nature.



You see a cute girl standing by herself

What do you do next

- as you stand there wonder where her BF is
- as you walk over - what do you do head up, shoulders back then half way through possibly feel anxious, look beta
- first words - what do you hello or not even attempt (disclaimer - i don't approach)
- her first negative reaction - what do you say and do awkwardly grin and eject
- her first positive reaction... - what do you say and do keep the ball rolling (though refer to OP, barely happens)

And how do you take that good reaction and get her into bed that very night?

2) Step 2

It's Friday Night, 6 pm. School/Work is over.

You're going to go out and find some ass.

In your own words, tell me what you do.

@ 6:30 Eat dinner
@ 7:00 Pre-drink
@ 8:00 Go to venue
@ 9:00 pm drink, scope the place out, hang by the bar
@10 drink more
@ 11 drink, look on
@ 12 dance, drink
@1 am dance
@2 am drink
@ 3 am dance

Not much to that really, hard to generalize it. Most nights I try to have a good night for myself, most girls and general social circles are closed and the girls i have like always have a guy with them or show up at the right time.
If there is/was interest from their end (which is rare these days), i usually would have no problem after that point.


Good example - cashier at the cafe was giving me huge IOI's - bending ass over the counter and looking straight back at me and blushing. So obviously I didn't do anything and took my coffee whilst grinning ... (?)
Few days later I saw her again, someone else took my order, I sat in the cafe for a while, drank my coffee, wrote down my number, and as I was leaving I walked up and instantly handed it to her and said "worth a shot",

She gave a 'awww okayyy' - Cringey, I then pretty much turned and walked. I'd assume I should have been getting her number and not doing some quick exchange with no dialog.

Welcome. I hope you find some actionable advice here that helps you begin walking a more fulfilling path. To be a male in his 30s can mean access to and highest level of attraction generated in the most diverse section of beautiful women.

My angle would be, instead of focusing on not giving a fuck about things (your ZFG), find one or two things you are earnest and passionate about that don't involve the validation of anyone but yourself. Just take care that these do not descend into navel-gazing hobbies like staying inside and playing video games.

Quote: (02-07-2016 01:46 AM)hardboiled Wrote:  

Few days later I saw her again, someone else took my order, I sat in the cafe for a while, drank my coffee, wrote down my number, and as I was leaving I walked up and instantly handed it to her and said "worth a shot",

She gave a 'awww okayyy' - Cringey, I then pretty much turned and walked. I'd assume I should have been getting her number and not doing some quick exchange with no dialog.

Nothing wrong with handing her your number in my book, particularly if she is busy with customers and might be embarrassed to have to stand there parroting her number whilst you write it down in front of everyone. Where you messed up slightly in my opinion was saying 'worth a shot'. Next time, confident smirk, look her in the eyes, slight delay as she wonders what's happening, then say 'Call me.' as you hand her the slip.

Your gonna be fine mate, just as soon as you get that ball rolling with the first bit of clunge. Then translate the confidence that successfully negotiating the example above with IOIs gives you, to a cold approach. And remember- outcome independent. You're just having fun, and there's a dozen other girls in the immediate vicinity you could get with if this one says no.

You need to fall in love with life again. Life is such a beautiful thing and it seems you are failing to appreciate that.

Are you physically active? Go hiking. Go jogging. Join a gym. Getting your heart pumping is an effective way to fight depression.

And how often do you approach women? I get the feeling that you're not doing this. You should be aiming to approach a MINIMUM of 2 women a day. That adds up to 14 a week and over 50 in a month. You'll learn a lot this way and you'll eventually meet some great women and get laid or build a good relationship if that's what you want. It's going to be hard but if you're not willing to put in the hard work then you don't deserve to have an account on this forum.

Do you have friends? I mean good masculine friends you can share a beer with, talk about EVERYTHING, share a couple of jokes with and help you out in times of trouble or depression? You really need people with a positive vibe in your life to help lighten up your own mood, mindset and outlook on life.

Your situation seems to be highly toxic and unpleasant. You need to get out of that city/town. Look for a job in another city. Or, better yet, look for a job in europe or asia. Travel will help you see the beauty and joys of life that you have shut your eyes to.

First off, why do 20 people a day laugh at you ?

Let's start there.

Quote: (02-07-2016 01:58 AM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Welcome. I hope you find some actionable advice here that helps you begin walking a more fulfilling path. To be a male in his 30s can mean access to and highest level of attraction generated in the most diverse section of beautiful women.

My angle would be, instead of focusing on not giving a fuck about things (your ZFG), find one or two things you are earnest and passionate about that don't involve the validation of anyone but yourself. Just take care that these do not descend into navel-gazing hobbies like staying inside and playing video games.

Well yes, throughout my 20's I have been studying art & writing in my spare time to fluctuating degrees of depth depending on life circumstances. it is my real passion and I want to make a career out it rather than what I do at the moment, which is just for a wage, though it seems I may be better off on Welfare, rather than spending 4 months looking for a contract that lasts me 2 months and moving cities each time.

Quote: (02-07-2016 04:34 AM)roberto Wrote:  

Quote: (02-07-2016 01:46 AM)hardboiled Wrote:  

Few days later I saw her again, someone else took my order, I sat in the cafe for a while, drank my coffee, wrote down my number, and as I was leaving I walked up and instantly handed it to her and said "worth a shot",

She gave a 'awww okayyy' - Cringey, I then pretty much turned and walked. I'd assume I should have been getting her number and not doing some quick exchange with no dialog.

Nothing wrong with handing her your number in my book, particularly if she is busy with customers and might be embarrassed to have to stand there parroting her number whilst you write it down in front of everyone. Where you messed up slightly in my opinion was saying 'worth a shot'. Next time, confident smirk, look her in the eyes, slight delay as she wonders what's happening, then say 'Call me.' as you hand her the slip.

Your gonna be fine mate, just as soon as you get that ball rolling with the first bit of clunge. Then translate the confidence that successfully negotiating the example above with IOIs gives you, to a cold approach. And remember- outcome independent. You're just having fun, and there's a dozen other girls in the immediate vicinity you could get with if this one says no.

Even though it had been a long time since I have taken that sort of approach (daytime, in public and sober) That was in way where I was coming from, customers and other staff around.
But I botched the approach with darting eyes, speaking from my throat and general half anxious 'spagetti-ness'.
I saw her again later and by her general bitchy offhandish demeanor it was possibly worse than I have explained. But I am better than that and didn't need her anyway, right

Quote: (02-07-2016 05:23 AM)SydneyD Wrote:  

You need to fall in love with life again. Life is such a beautiful thing and it seems you are failing to appreciate that.

Are you physically active? Go hiking. Go jogging. Join a gym. Getting your heart pumping is an effective way to fight depression.

And how often do you approach women? I get the feeling that you're not doing this. You should be aiming to approach a MINIMUM of 2 women a day. That adds up to 14 a week and over 50 in a month. You'll learn a lot this way and you'll eventually meet some great women and get laid or build a good relationship if that's what you want. It's going to be hard but if you're not willing to put in the hard work then you don't deserve to have an account on this forum.

Do you have friends? I mean good masculine friends you can share a beer with, talk about EVERYTHING, share a couple of jokes with and help you out in times of trouble or depression? You really need people with a positive vibe in your life to help lighten up your own mood, mindset and outlook on life.

Your situation seems to be highly toxic and unpleasant. You need to get out of that city/town. Look for a job in another city. Or, better yet, look for a job in europe or asia. Travel will help you see the beauty and joys of life that you have shut your eyes to.

It seems to be always toxic though, and it is sad because for some reason I keep trying, maybe not always 100% but I still keep a delusion going that I am heading somewhere other than the loser mentality I was programmed to utilize but never accepted.

As I said, I have moved around while most people i know have stayed still, and I am ultimately no better off. And oh how those closest to me love to see me FAIL. Lately I really experienced tall poppy syndrome - coming from a 90's girl power household (mother, sister and an older distant brother who wanted me basically in the ground)

With all my moving I haven't made any close friends. I have always worked out at home and never been to a gym. But I did have a good circle of friends at certain points earlier in my life, but most stayed in my home town or got married.

I hoped to prove those common quotes right by taking the harder less, traveled path, but from my experience I might have been better off just being unmotivated and content with what ever the first 15 years of life hinted towards.
- I mean really, out of five cities I've been to two of those twice and I am back in one of them now. I just ended a work contract prematurely due to a bad workplace culture and a feminist hen who stuck up for the few women in the office.

So I ejected, I felt my value was worth more than that.
But what are the alternatives - I am semi qualified to do work in an office and earn money.
Or do I start again in a blue colar trade while working on my art?

Believe it or not I have never flown or travelled, always wanted to but wanted to be well off and confident in myself so as to not waste the trip (which i felt it would be doing it at 20)
Do I jump on a plane and just go for broke? (as I said, I have not one thing stopping me from going anywhere right now)

Quote: (02-07-2016 06:22 AM)LINUX Wrote:  

First off, why do 20 people a day laugh at you ?

Let's start there.

I don't know, there is an underlying layer of anxiousness and inferiority still. Both not having women and still reeling from the panic of yesteryear is a double edged sword and it perpetuates even more non-confidence.
I'll be driving and sometimes it will be a few people in cars in a row.
I'll turn a corner and someone will give me a quick glance of grimace and awkward smile.

Quote: (02-07-2016 05:51 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Might just be the only viable option left, If I take what little savings I have left and hope to earn as I travel.

Quote: (02-07-2016 01:46 AM)hardboiled Wrote:  

Though I can ASSURE you that being laughed at is a real thing and I have always wished it WAS delusion or paranoia, because it would mean there is nothing wrong with me physically or socially. I can only assume that the years spend feeling anxiety and panic created big voids in my confidence and my general 'chi'. I burn a lot of adrenalin most days which doesn't exactly instill good nature.

This sounds like a load of horse shit mate (or an SJW troll).

Unless you're drawing attention to yourself in public by doing some utterly stupid and ridiculous things, no one is laughing at you. People are too busy in their own little bubble to be bothered with reacting to what you're doing.

You say it's not paranoia, but it reads as text book paranoia (and a poorly thought out troll piece).

Quote: (02-07-2016 01:46 AM)hardboiled Wrote:  

You see a cute girl standing by herself

What do you do next

- first words - what do you say hello or not even attempt (disclaimer - i don't approach)

Grow some fucking balls for fucks sake.

Quote: (02-07-2016 01:46 AM)hardboiled Wrote:  

2) Step 2

It's Friday Night, 6 pm. School/Work is over.

You're going to go out and find some ass.

In your own words, tell me what you do.

@ 6:30 Eat dinner
@ 7:00 Pre-drink
@ 8:00 Go to venue
@ 9:00 pm drink, scope the place out, hang by the bar
@10 drink more
@ 11 drink, look on
@ 12 dance, drink
@1 am dance
@2 am drink
@ 3 am dance

Not much to that really, hard to generalize it. Most nights I try to have a good night for myself, most girls and general social circles are closed and the girls i have like always have a guy with them or show up at the right time.
If there is/was interest from their end (which is rare these days), i usually would have no problem after that point.

Yes you would, because you have no fucking balls.

You go out for seven hours, and part of your pick up strategy is to "drink, scope the place out, hang by the bar, and dance"?

What a waste of time and money (I won't say effort, because you've exerted none).

Quote: (02-07-2016 07:05 AM)Windom Earle Wrote:  

This sounds like a load of horse shit mate (or an SJW troll).

Unless you're drawing attention to yourself in public by doing some utterly stupid and ridiculous things, no one is laughing at you. People are too busy in their own little bubble to be bothered with reacting to what you're doing.

You say it's not paranoia, but it reads as text book paranoia (and a poorly thought out troll piece).

I'm not saying that people are spending 1 hour of their day giving a shit about what I am doing, I am talking about a second.

But from multiple people that are all similar reactions.

Drawing attention - nope, but if I am, then it is subconscious and directly correlated to acting anxious.

But seriously - 'People are too busy in their own little bubble', however they will make time to to see outside of that if there is potential for entertainment, sex, fame or fortune. We all have eyes and minds and as most know, the world and our culture drives us to seek such things and information.

You say you've been around red pill ideology and yet you don't approach.

20 random people laugh at you daily?

I smell a

Quote: (02-07-2016 07:21 AM)SydneyD Wrote:  

You say you've been around red pill ideology and yet you don't approach.

20 random people laugh at you daily?

I smell a

Red pill in regards to knowledge of the way the world, women and men are really working.
My confidence got shot somewhere along the way, or it is the envioment I found myself in, or a multitude of other factors.

Like I said, I had two LTR's that were intense and I did move them in the way I wanted for most of the time. And all bets were on that I would either marry one or have a kid.

Okay, I am a troll, I've spent all day writing words here just to fuck with you all, now what? What is the motivation? - none.

Start an approach thread and go out and approach.

I'll be honest.

At one point in my life, I had 20+ people laugh at me. Every day. I looked weird, had on old hand me down clothes from my much more socially calibrated cousin, was skinny, didn't speak English that well, and even grew a mustache at about 13 years old that I wasn't allowed to shave off. I was a recently immigrated kid from India at that time. The atmosphere was middle school and high school. I was surrounded by teenagers that didn't know better. So I know why I was made fun of.

I have been through more barriers and rejection than most people go through. I changed, extremely and significantly to the point that only a glimmer of that kid exists now.

I have never had even one person make fun of me once I had some basic social calibration and confidence. If anything, I think people may envy me.

This is why I think you're full of shit OP. I have gone through what you "say" you have gone through and you're not surrounded by rejects and other teenage nitwits. For gods sakes I was an IRT. If I could pull myself out in an alien fucking country, basically while being a guest in it, I don't see why you couldn't. On top of it, this is your country, your culture and people share your values.

Grow a pair and give me 5 approaches. Document them in detail and the forum membership will help you.

Quote: (02-07-2016 06:53 AM)hardboiled Wrote:  

Quote: (02-07-2016 01:58 AM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Welcome. I hope you find some actionable advice here that helps you begin walking a more fulfilling path. To be a male in his 30s can mean access to and highest level of attraction generated in the most diverse section of beautiful women.

My angle would be, instead of focusing on not giving a fuck about things (your ZFG), find one or two things you are earnest and passionate about that don't involve the validation of anyone but yourself. Just take care that these do not descend into navel-gazing hobbies like staying inside and playing video games.

Well yes, throughout my 20's I have been studying art & writing in my spare time to fluctuating degrees of depth depending on life circumstances. it is my real passion and I want to make a career out it rather than what I do at the moment, which is just for a wage, though it seems I may be better off on Welfare, rather than spending 4 months looking for a contract that lasts me 2 months and moving cities each time.

Art and writing is wonderful and even if you had all the time in the world you could never run out of amazing things to discover. Keep it up. Please don't go on welfare. The foundation of every human's dignity is his ability to stand on his own. Don't throw that away.

I wouldn't automatically assume troll post. People thought my first post here was a troll as well. Don't ascribe to malice what can be explained through ignorance.

I'm a man that had an abusive family and then suffered from a serious illness that nearly took my health from me forever. I was overweight for a time when I was younger, suffered from anxiety and depression, ended up like the OP back at home living with my family for a while. Alcoholism. Drug use. I've been through all the worst.

I also suffer from hair loss.

In the past 8 months since I started making a concerted effort to wise up on how to approach relationships I've had sex with four different women, and had so many sloppy makeouts/BJs that it's getting to the point I can't remember everyone's name.

If you've still got a couple of functioning limbs and a brain, and can get out the door in the morning, nothing is unsaveable.

Quote: (02-07-2016 03:10 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Art and writing is wonderful and even if you had all the time in the world you could never run out of amazing things to discover. Keep it up. Please don't go on welfare. The foundation of every human's dignity is his ability to stand on his own. Don't throw that away.

You have to be a light to yourself. Go out and glow.

Quote: (02-07-2016 03:44 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

I also suffer from hair loss.

Not to derail this thread into another "bro being bald doesn't matter" discussion, but I started losing hair at 17 and I finally shaved my head about five months ago, and when I tell you girls don't care (provided you're big at least and don't have too fucked up of a head), they really don't care.

Anway, I don't think OP is a troll. I think he's a bit of a pussy or wants to make himself out to seem like he suffers in a unique way, but I don't think he's a troll, and if he takes this forum seriously, he can end up being a serious player like anyone else.

The biggest problem I see is he goes to the club just to dance.

^I agree that he thinks his problem is unique which in reality it isn't.

... but what doesn't make sense is that he doesn't have confidence yet still goes to the club to "dance".. he's already laser conscious regarding people and being made fun of.. but he has no problem dancing in a club around others?

OP, later in your "agenda" when you had some drinks, can you just stop thinking, walk up to a girl and just say "let's dance" or even "do you want to dance?" Most girls in clubs are bored and will say yes.

It's funny, pre red pill when I was in my early 20s, and "beta," the only line I used was "do you want to dance?" It worked almost a 100% of the time. I don't know why but it did. If anything, at that time I was very good looking compared to today.

What I'm saying is, why don't you channel your love for dancing into an approach or two?

Quote: (02-07-2016 04:03 PM)Tex Wrote:  

Not to derail this thread into another "bro being bald doesn't matter" discussion, but I started losing hair at 17 and I finally shaved my head about five months ago, and when I tell you girls don't care (provided you're big at least and don't have too fucked up of a head), they really don't care.

Yeah, sometimes I feel sad over how many millions of words and thousands of hours have probably been wasted in other parts of the internet with online men's hair loss support groups.

By the time the second or so 20-something cutie is telling you "ooh yeah you look so MANLY" and is then going down on your dick it all sort of fades into irrelevance

Quote: (02-07-2016 04:28 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

... but what doesn't make sense is that he doesn't have confidence yet still goes to the club to "dance".. he's already laser conscious regarding people and being made fun of.. but he has no problem dancing in a club around others?

This is what I see when I see guys dancing in the club but don't approach.

Quote: (02-07-2016 03:10 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Art and writing is wonderful and even if you had all the time in the world you could never run out of amazing things to discover. Keep it up. Please don't go on welfare. The foundation of every human's dignity is his ability to stand on his own. Don't throw that away.

Not bothered at all by going on welfare, the system is designed for it - I've been taxed heavily for years and paid into it and the government has allowed cheap visas and cheap labor come in and affect the jobs in my industry.

Quote: (02-07-2016 04:28 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

^I agree that he thinks his problem is unique which in reality it isn't.

... but what doesn't make sense is that he doesn't have confidence yet still goes to the club to "dance".. he's already laser conscious regarding people and being made fun of.. but he has no problem dancing in a club around others?

OP, later in your "agenda" when you had some drinks, can you just stop thinking, walk up to a girl and just say "let's dance" or even "do you want to dance?" Most girls in clubs are bored and will say yes.

It's funny, pre red pill when I was in my early 20s, and "beta," the only line I used was "do you want to dance?" It worked almost a 100% of the time. I don't know why but it did. If anything, at that time I was very good looking compared to today.

What I'm saying is, why don't you channel your love for dancing into an approach or two?

Few points:

I am usually pretty 'green' to the place I moved to / I am going just to get loose for a while

Plenty of drug nights influenced my confidence in regards to dancing etc

Liquor is easy fake confidence and I get too wasted by the early hours

The ratio of dick to pussy most places I have been is at least 4:1

IF there is/was genuine attraction I would jump straight on it, as I have said - Sober or day game, there is barely any.

Apart from getting pinched on the ass once or twice at a club over the last few years
most girls are with groups of girlfriends and guys they have known for years etc.

^ Please explain what you consider "natural" attraction.

Why do you think there is none?

I promise I have a point.