One of Roosh's latest tweets provokes me to ask a question. For you guys with location independent lifestyles who spend a lot of time abroad, how much is loneliness a factor? I can imagine if you are constantly mobile and haven't been somewhere long enough to put roots down and build a social network and friends, you probably have a lot of alone time. The longest I have been out of the country was 2 months and in that time I never got lonely, maybe a couple days went by where I didn't do much or wish I had some company, but it was short lived. I was also staying in hostels so there were always people to meet. I imagine if you rent an apartment without a roommate it could get boring at times. Particularly if it's an extended trip.

Is this a problem for you guys on the road? If so, how do you deal with it?

I've been stateside for awhile, but once cashflow picks up a bit I want to start getting back out there.

I've been travelling 1.5 years plus. Sometimes you get bored or lonely of course, but it's nothing compared to when I was working, spending 10 plus hours a day mostly alone in my office. Doing repetitive shit every day.

I always find it funny when people worry about loneliness when travelling solo long-term, but no one really appreciates how lonely the average American's life is. I mean seriously think about what the average white collar worker in America does on a daily basis and then I doubt you'll care about loneliness on the road. It is nothing in comparison. Just being in a foreign location makes each day more interesting, even if you don't have a real conservation with anyone.

Also if you stay at hostels, go to clubs, do couch surfing, you are always meeting people whereas back home your life usually becomes stagnant and you start doing the same things with the same people. If you are lonely back home it is MUCH harder to try to change things, but if you are travelling and you get lonely you can just move to a different hostel, city, or country even.

the best advice i can give here is that if/when you get lonely think about why you left and what you'd be doing if you were still home - probably nothing. then get out and go for a walk and enjoy wherever you are

A part of traveling is learning to be alone, for most people it's a very empowering experience as you get to know yourself better, see that you can handle shit on your own and, by necessity learn to meet new people wherever you go. You then start to develop confidence in yourself and your abilities. It's an empowering experience like no other.

Very quickly you will see that being alone translates to being independent rather than to being lonely.

It's also important to remember that you shouldn't stubbornly insist on staying in places that you don't like. The essence of traveling is exploring the world so to find places that you DO like.

About Roosh's twit, he is deliberately avoiding company as he is consciously looking for girls who will fuck and leave asap. He is basically actively rejecting any companionship. Hence the so called loneliness.

Great thread; all thoughtful, introspective, intelligent comments here - well done gig, brian, nomadicdude and speakeasy - for the question. From my long-term experiences you are all spot-on. There is no question that the traveling lifestyle is challenging and loneliness is one of the major challenges. I have met very few men over the age of 40 who are pulling off this lifestyle; most seem to burn out or succumb to the draw of familiarity and comfort of home/family/friends. No shame in that, but the few I know who have kept it going have a much broader expat experience than chasing pussy and partying - both of which I enjoy immensely. The richness of global travel/living, for me, is measured in the friends I have made, the cultural experiences I have enjoyed, in addition to the women I have met.

I've been mobile for a little over two years now. And as others have said, loneliness is an unavoidable aspect of this lifestyle. It's a sacrifice you make to have all of the new and incredible experiences all the time.

It hits me in short spells every few months. I'll get bummed out for a few days at a time. Maybe a week at the most. It's usually when I'm focusing a lot on work and haven't gotten out much or met anybody new in a while. I fight loneliness by finding some sort of group wherever I go. Whether it's salsa lessons, a Muay Thai gym, surf lessons or even a CS meetup. Just something (aside from pick up) to force me out and talking to people with some regularity. I've found that superficial/drunk conversations in bars and even many ONS's don't do much for you in the long-run. If all of your social interaction is coming from hitting on girls, then it's easy to burn out and get bummed out within a month or two. I learned that early on. Like LostGringo said, it's the casual interactions and friendships you make that keep your spirits up over the period of months and years.

Good thread. This is an oft-unspoken reality of living on the road.

I will also say, I can't imagine living like this forever. I think in the long-run (5-10+ years), it's not emotionally healthy or stable. I definitely don't ever want to go back to having a 9-5. And I don't want the "American Dream" of a mortgage with 2.5 kids and a dog. But I do eventually want a home base. A single city I live in 8-9 months out of the year. If there's anything I've learned in the last two years, it's that there's a lot to be said for having a stable network of social support.

Lonliness for me sets in when I have no "gang" to hang with... I am so used to being with friends, that when alone for a long period,, it gets to me... I am sure it gets to most...

I am currently living in Doha Qatar, and it ain't easy being in an islamic country or being alone... Sometimes going out with your work colleagues helps, but at the same time, you don't always want to hang out with people from work.... Here are a couple of things that has worked for me to combat my loneliness.

1) Join a gym (even monthly or daily passes work). There are so many guys who share the same goals with you i.e. workout, getting fit, that you are bound to meet new people and go out with them on the weekend....
2) Buy a satellite or cable tv package that has the programs that you want. Watching programs that I was familiar with i.e. Travel, Discovery, movie channels and shows made it much more bearable.
3) Explore. See what entertainment or things to do are locally.... Get a magazine or paper that discusses/advertises concerts, pick up games etc.... A lot of expats join drama clubs, sports clubs, etc...
4) Be active...... Don't sit on your couch eating pringles and being sad.
5) Online poker/chats/dating..... If you have no buddies as being in a new country,,, this will help time go by until you meet people. I joined colombian cupid, (I have a thing for latinas)... and chatting with them makes the time pass, and I don't feel as lonely... Pick any site,,, it just worked for me.

Of course, these are some points that have worked for me.... They may not be for all, but my advice is to take things day by day.

Its not the fact of being lonely that depresses me when i am travelling, it is the fact of not having the time to accomplish my goals when i am travelling. Usually when i travel just for fun (fucking girls), i really enjoy myself but after banging these girls, i start thinking to myself, so was that all? Next day im horny again and i want to hit a new girl but after hitting her, this feeling of emptiness comesback again. The way i enjoy going after women is the same way i enjoy running businesses and making money, if i go to a country where im only spending and i dont have money coming in i get depressed after a while.

The perfect lifestyle for me is to have lots of money and travel around the world and go to the place where i run my businesses at least once a month with whoever fuckbuddy im having at that time.

The friends you get used to live without them, i am always leaving my friends behind that im so used to it. Yesterday a co worker was telling me that his friend is a millionaire and works in the oil field (6 months per year) and doesnt have wife or kids..he owns a flat..and is constantly travelling around the world. I am looking to live a similar lifestyle but i aint looking to own a house or anything, just want to make sure that i have lots of money that gives me true freedom. (200k per year would do it but i know i will end up making a lot more)

I am more than 2 years and 2 months into my current trip

Pipeline before arrival. Set up a social circle for yourself before you even arrive. Easy to do online.

I stay is hostels but am not really interested in using fellow hostel guests as a replacement social circle and I like to meet local people instead.

Also if you pipeline AND you have game it should not be long before you have a girlfriend or 3 wherever you go.

Quote: (10-14-2011 02:46 AM)pitt Wrote:  

Its not the fact of being lonely that depresses me when i am travelling, it is the fact of not having the time to accomplish my goals when i am travelling. Usually when i travel just for fun (fucking girls), i really enjoy myself but after banging these girls, i start thinking to myself, so was that all? Next day im horny again and i want to hit a new girl but after hitting her, this feeling of emptiness comesback again. The way i enjoy going after women is the same way i enjoy running businesses and making money, if i go to a country where im only spending and i dont have money coming in i get depressed after a while.

The perfect lifestyle for me is to have lots of money and travel around the world and go to the place where i run my businesses at least once a month with whoever fuckbuddy im having at that time.

The friends you get used to live without them, i am always leaving my friends behind that im so used to it. Yesterday a co worker was telling me that his friend is a millionaire and works in the oil field (6 months per year) and doesnt have wife or kids..he owns a flat..and is constantly travelling around the world. I am looking to live a similar lifestyle but i aint looking to own a house or anything, just want to make sure that i have lots of money that gives me true freedom. (200k per year would do it but i know i will end up making a lot more)

"perfect lifestyle" ..I don't think you'll find it!

Well if not the perfect lifestyle, than the ideal. You may get a bit bored now and then but you are happy with what you have chosen or with what you are living.

It's inevitable because:

1. Girls don't provide the comraderie and fraternal friendship that a guy needs
2. Girls you don't give the cock to regularly have very little incentive to stay with you as friends
3. Other guys who happen to be living abroad are usually eccentrics, and thus, loners...kind of like you
4. The older you get, the harder it gets to make good friends
5. The few male acquaintances you do bond with are more likely to be alliances than friendships -- banding together temporarily because you're both foreigners in a different land or because you both need each other to be wingmen

That's why most expats end up settling down and having kids with a local girl.

Quote: (10-14-2011 12:24 PM)subutai Wrote:  

It's inevitable because:

1. Girls don't provide the comraderie and fraternal friendship that a guy needs
2. Girls you don't give the cock to regularly have very little incentive to stay with you as friends
3. Other guys who happen to be living abroad are usually eccentrics, and thus, loners...kind of like you
4. The older you get, the harder it gets to make good friends
5. The few male acquaintances you do bond with are more likely to be alliances than friendships -- banding together temporarily because you're both foreigners in a different land or because you both need each other to be wingmen

That's why most expats end up settling down and having kids with a local girl.

Well said. It's a great lifestyle. I don't regret a day of it. And I think I've got another couple years in me. But I don't think anyone could live like this forever. Everyone eventually needs some kind of "home base."

Try to find traveling pals before starting your trip.

Quote: (10-14-2011 01:24 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

Quote: (10-14-2011 12:24 PM)subutai Wrote:  

It's inevitable because:

1. Girls don't provide the comraderie and fraternal friendship that a guy needs
2. Girls you don't give the cock to regularly have very little incentive to stay with you as friends
3. Other guys who happen to be living abroad are usually eccentrics, and thus, loners...kind of like you
4. The older you get, the harder it gets to make good friends
5. The few male acquaintances you do bond with are more likely to be alliances than friendships -- banding together temporarily because you're both foreigners in a different land or because you both need each other to be wingmen

That's why most expats end up settling down and having kids with a local girl.

Well said. It's a great lifestyle. I don't regret a day of it. And I think I've got another couple years in me. But I don't think anyone could live like this forever. Everyone eventually needs some kind of "home base."

The older you get, the harder it gets to make good friends

So true....just part of life I think...connection and patterns are established as you get older and starting from scratch again and again is therefore more difficult.
That quick connection where you became fast friends with strangers when in your teens and twenties is more of a stretch.

I think if you are lonely while travelling abroad then you probably also feel lonely when you are at home doing your regular routine. It's just when you are home your loneliness is normal to you because it's just part of your routine, whereas when you travel you have this unreasonable expectation that every second should be interesting.

Quote: (10-14-2011 05:42 AM)Lumiere Wrote:  

I am more than 2 years and 2 months into my current trip

Pipeline before arrival. Set up a social circle for yourself before you even arrive. Easy to do online.

I stay is hostels but am not really interested in using fellow hostel guests as a replacement social circle and I like to meet local people instead.

Also if you pipeline AND you have game it should not be long before you have a girlfriend or 3 wherever you go.

Lumiere, how do you pipeline a social circle? Can you break that down a bit? I know there's couchsurfing, but what else would you use?

I have experienced this when in Ukraine and Russia even when my hosts are pampering me and women are making me a top priority-- the opposite of how I'm treated in USA.

One thing I realized that happens is if you are not fluent in a foreign language compensating is very tiring.

What happens is the people you are with really must speak most of the time in their language to maintain their mutual social support. You can't ask them to speak in English all the time even though they try.

So you are there physically, hearing a language you don't understand much of, and your brain keeps trying to decode it even though it's impossible. So I found I need to take breaks, to go off on my own so I am not hearing the language all the time-- otherwise I am constantly trying to understand and at over 40 it's not fast to learn a language.

Getting breaks where you can listen to your own language in movies etc helps. Also, if there's a movie you can watch with your foreign (local) friends and it has subtitles, now you're sharing an activity where you both can understand what the hell is going on.

Quote: (10-14-2011 03:14 PM)nomadicdude Wrote:  

I think if you are lonely while travelling abroad then you probably also feel lonely when you are at home doing your regular routine. It's just when you are home your loneliness is normal to you because it's just part of your routine, whereas when you travel you have this unreasonable expectation that every second should be interesting.

Disagree with this. There's a big difference between feeling lonely on a vacation and feeling lonely because you've lived in 15 different cities in the past 6 months.

Also depending on the country youre at, it can be quite hard to make good friends with the locals, due to very different mentalities, even though you speak their language perfectly.

I experienced this myself when living in the Dominican Republic. The dominincan mindset couldnt be further away from the western european, especially outside of the bigger cities, which makes it very hard to relate to them in a non-superficial way. Of course, you can go out drinking with the locals, take trips to the beach with em, etc. but to build a deep friendship based on mutual trust is a whole other thing. Their cultural background is so different, they (mostly) lack of education and then there is the huge income disparity between you and them, which makes things even more complicated. The only dominicans I found to be good friends of mine, belonged to the university educated minority and most of them were rather wealthy by dominican standarts.

In most of the less developed countries you never can fully blend in and you will hardly ever be percieved as "one of us". I have lived several years in different countries in Latin America and I speak perfect spanish, but still I always remained "el gringo", "el rubio" or "el aleman". Keep in mind that Im not some creepy, socially awkward dumbfuck.
Another thing is, that a lot of people just want to be friends with you, because you are "el gringo", hence to some people somewhat more interessting than a local guy, but thats not a good basis for a solid friendship imo. Obviously, getting pussy is greatly different and to certain extend it helps to not feel lonely, but as Roosh said, you can just have busted a nut and still feel kinda alone. Nothing equals spending time with your lifelong buddys, nothing.

Anyways, I never regret my years abroad and now, since Ive been living back in my homecountry for a little over 1 year, Im craving to spend some time overseas again.

I feel lonely at home a lot despite having plenty of friends and aquaintances, don't seem to relate to a lot of people and have different views from most on pretty much everything, rarely feel lonely on the road though. Have had times when I get a bit down but find that grounding myself in one place for a week or so, not doing any touristy / travel type things and just doing normal (i.e. boring) stuff like watching TV and reading can help me get back into the travel mentality.

Quote: (10-15-2011 05:09 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I have experienced this when in Ukraine and Russia even when my hosts are pampering me and women are making me a top priority-- the opposite of how I'm treated in USA.

The only antidote to loneliness is a genuine human connection. And you just know when you have connected with someone. Like you said, even having nice hosts and having fun with the women doesn't necessarily do it. I think some people though can handle alone-ness(as opposed to loneliness) better than others. I'm more of a natural introvert so I actually enjoy my alone time. But even for people like me, you start feeling that urge building up sooner or later to have genuine social connection with others. If I'm around others and it's very superficial, unfullfilling conversation for an extended period of time, I'd rather just leave the situation. No loneliness is worse than the loneliness you feel when in the company of others. I'd rather go home and read at that point.

Quote:Quote:

One thing I realized that happens is if you are not fluent in a foreign language compensating is very tiring.

I know what you mean. When you're home, you always take for granted being in a country where your every word is understood and your brain isn't working in overdrive to comprehend every phrase said to you.

The ideal life for me would be a home base (in my case, NYC), and be able to visit other countries for a couple of weeks at a time and be able to make money on some internet-based business. Though I love the prospect of meeting women in different countries and fucking, I pick the cities/countries based on what there is to see and do there, with women being a potential bonus. It's nice to have a local woman or two to spend time with, but I always have my own agenda laid out in terms of what I want to see, how to get around, etc. I let whoever know when I'll be in town, and make contact when I get in town and try to set up a meet. If things fall through, I'm not stuck - I can stick to my original agenda, and try to fit her in where I can.


Personally, I don't get lonely. I've always been comfortable doing my thing alone. I like company when I feel like it, but I'm not one to always try to find someone to do things with. I find so many people that can't stand being alone, and I can't really understand it because I'm not that way. If there's a movie I want to see, I'll go and see it (so many people couldn't imagine doing that...they see you as pitiful and some kind of loser). When I went to Brazil 10 years ago, 4 of us went and it was a great, bonding experience. It's been impossible for a group of us to take a trip since, because guys are married or otherwise attached, or can't get time off from work, etc. So I make plans and go. If someone can or wants to join me, great. If not, I don't let it stop me.

I would imagine for someone like Roosh, who writes, it would be potentially easier to combat those moments of loneliness. He can always find a new project with which to focus on and immerse himself in it. I guess it's key to find something that interests you that you can focus on in those lulls where loneliness kicks in. Chat/webcam with friends and family or with local contacts (I do this with internationals from home to build relationships prior to potential visits). I've never really thought about spending several months or years abroad somewhere - I envision short trips, then returning to home base for a while and then laying out plans for my next trip. I've been studying Spanish and Portuguese because I'd like to really hit South America extensively and not feel totally helpless if I'm not accompanied by a chick. I guess some time on the road could be filled by continuing your language study.

When I get to a point it's time to go home and spend time with family. I start to feel "hollow" at some point. Even if just for a couple weeks. It's sort of like getting grounded. After that I'm ready to hit the ground running again.

Meeting people in passing and short term g/f's doesn't take the place of friends and family. At least for me. Recently a wise man told me that a man always has to have a place to call home. I believe it.

I've been on the road for the better part of ten years.

My advice is to get involved in an activity, such as surfing, climbing or kite boarding...something that involves a ready made social group of like minded people

I have been climbing all over the world and I see my friends everywhere. In winter we're in Patagonia, Thailand or Australia, summer it's Squamish in Canada or Europe. Fall and spring it's the Himalayas or the desert. I have a group of people I literally trust with my life. I've seen amazing remote parts of the world and when the expedition is over we slay the local poon.

I have a friend that's 85 and has been climbing since he was 16. He still tries to pick up chicks.

You'll never have better friends than those you have from being fully committed.

I have a job, but it's only to support my climbing habit.

Get an activity. Travel to places to do it. Stay fit. Meet local chicks. Have cultural experiences way beyond the norm.

Lonliless will never be an issue, nor will money when you have all you need...health, happiness, true friendship.