[RussianSoul]

There has been quite a few fitness threads lately and so I thought I would put one up for my brothers at rooshv. I have been working out seriously for 5-6 years now and I consume knowledge on the subject like it is candy. Take my advice/comments with a grain of salt but I hope its helpful to some of you. One of my pet peeves in the world of internet bodybuilding is this unhealthy obsession with bulking. Guys tend to set obscure weight goals for themselves(and others). Ie...At your height, you need to bulk till at least 200 pounds, bro! This pisses me off. First of all, no self-respecting man should care how much he weighs. Secondly, bodybuilding is about how you LOOK. I am 6'2 and 165 lbs. My weight is the exactly the same as when I started at 18-19 but my physique is transformed. A lot guys looking at my stats would assume I am just a skinny bastard with zero physical development. The pictures below reveal that is not the case. You see, these obscure height/weight suggestions don't take into account frame size(mine is small), bone density,etc...My point is the mirror should be your number one point of reference. I have focused on two things in my training(which is only body weight by the way): maintaining leanness and building specific muscle groups(Delts, Upper chest, Lats). Doing this, I think I have successfully created the ILLUSION of size. In all honestly, yea, I would like be bigger but it shouldn't come at the cost of proportions. I am not going to win any power lifting contents but women seem pretty happy when I take my shirt off.
         

[Alphabrew]

Props dude, you look great. I've been doing body weight exercises too (based on the book "Convict Conditioning") but my results aren't as good as yours. I'm 165 and 6'2".

[scorpion]

You say you would like to be bigger but your training is bodyweight only. That's like saying you would like to be a player but you refuse to approach and rely exclusively on women opening you.

Have you actually tried dedicating yourself to a solid weightlifting routine and bulking diet for a few months? If not, you should give it a shot. My natural frame without heavy lifting is not too far off yours (6', 170ish) but these days I roll around at a little over 200 lbs with visible definition. The difference in how both men and women react is night and day. You probably have a lot of room to gain mass and could still maintain a low BF%. Not trying to hate on you or anything. Your physique is good now if you're going for that male model look. But if you've never put on any mass and have only been cut, you aren't in a position to be extolling the virtues of one over the other.

Looking cut and toned is fun when you take your shirt off, and will impress a good percentage of women you've taken home; being big is fun all the time, and will impress/intimidate everyone you interact with. A low bodyfat just can't compete with being a larger and more muscular human being. And it's not just me saying this. Any guy who's ever put on a good amount of lean mass will tell you the exact same thing.

[fkexpat]

(08-27-2013 05:52 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Looking cut and toned is fun when you take your shirt off, and will impress a good percentage of women you've taken home; being big is fun all the time, and will impress/intimidate everyone you interact with. A low bodyfat just can't compete with being a larger and more muscular human being. And it's not just me saying this. Any guy who's ever put on a good amount of lean mass will tell you the exact same thing.

I'd say that he looks pretty big already, as well as cut and toned. His physique is fantastic (look at his upper back and traps). Regardless of his method, bodyweight is working for him. He's big enough to be noticed as well when he wears a shirt.

[Damedius]

I got to agree. Dude looks cut.
He also nails some of my thoughts on weight training. I want to bulk to have big muscles but have never been as cut as that.

Do you feel this is all exercise or does your diet play a large part in looking that cut?

[Kish]

(08-27-2013 03:58 PM)RussianSoul Wrote:  

maintaining leanness and building specific muscle groups(Delts, Upper chest, Lats).

Good post. I think what creates the illusion of size is the ratio of those muscles to the size of the waist.

[FretDancer]

Great post, definitely the physique I am aiming at. Screw that bulking and cutting shit.

[MikeCF]

(08-27-2013 05:52 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Looking cut and toned is fun when you take your shirt off, and will impress a good percentage of women you've taken home; being big is fun all the time, and will impress/intimidate everyone you interact with. A low bodyfat just can't compete with being a larger and more muscular human being. And it's not just me saying this. Any guy who's ever put on a good amount of lean mass will tell you the exact same thing.

If that guy takes his shirt off at a Vegas pool party, he will be more than OK.

Guys like him just need to wear tighter shirts, slim fitting Henleys or cardigans.

The fabric will cling and highlight his cuts. He is doing better than 90% of men.

Nice build, OP. It looks very Christian Bale in American Psycho.

It's true that scale weight is a myth.

People regularly assume I weigh 20 pounds more than I do. My closest fitness friend weighs 210 and people think he weighs 240.

You've done it smart. You have nice delts. This creates a huge drop from your upper body to your waist.

How is your fashion? Are you wearing the right clothes to highlight your physique?

[scorpion]

The fact is that 6'2" and 165 lbs. will never look "built" walking down the street, or even at a pool party. You can definitely look cut up, which is a look that a lot of women find appealing, but that's not the same as "built". This thread should have been called "You can build an impressive physique using bodyweight exercise!" and it would be totally accurate. But cut isn't built.

The "illusion" of size may be fine for posting pics on the internet, but the "reality" of size becomes apparent when you're standing next to a dude who is legitimately 200+ at your same bodyfat.

And I'm really not trying to hate on this guy. Much the opposite, in fact. His look is good in my opinion, and much better than most lardasses these days. It's just not what I'd consider "built" at this point, and if he wants to gain mass like he says, he's gotta hit the iron instead of relying on bodyweight exercises. Basically, I think this guy is leaving a lot on the table. If he can achieve that physique without weights, then he's got much more potential than he realizes. Here's a good read talking about the potential for gains in natural bodybuilding based on height and bone structure: http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html . I would encourage him to keep pushing for new gains. There's no reason he couldn't be that cut up with another 20 lbs. of lean mass on his frame, minimum.

But to make that happen there's no way around the heavy barbell training. Otherwise he's just proof of what Big Ronnie says:

"Everybody want to be a bodybuilder, but nobody want to lift this heavy ass weight!"

Good luck RussianSoul, and props at the same time, since you've already done better than most guys. But why stop there?

[MikeCF]

^ What are ou talking about?

His delts have caps on them.

He pecs protrude and have clear outlines with a delineation between his upper and lower pecs.

His biceps have peaks.

His upper back has enough thickness that he has the 3 dimensional look.

He doesn't weigh much because you can see that he has small joints and his bone structure isn't large.

He probably wears a size 40 jacket (in American sizes) and has an extremely small waist.

He's not big but he is built. He has put a nice amount of muscle on his frame.

Maybe he should take so much HGH that his head grows and his gut protrudes? He can be one of those guys who has a 40" waist with 6-pack abs because the internal organs are so hypertrophied?

[scorpion]

Mike, let's be honest, those are fuzzy pics with him standing a foot away from the camera. It's intentionally misleading. It's the same way chicks turn themselves from 4's into 7's online with tricky camera angles. If the lens was a few inches closer this guy would look like the Hulk.

But 165 lbs. is just not built at 6'2", period. You wouldn't even know a guy with those stats lifted if he wasn't wearing an XS T-shirt. The mass just isn't there to fill out a long frame like that.

Anyway, three posts is about enough for me to be talking about some random dude's body, so I'll let you get in the last word here if you'd like.

[fkexpat]

Looking like Ronnie Coleman is beyond being "built." That's freakishly large. Most women don't find that look attractive. RussianSoul is both built AND cut. I guarantee he'll stand out walking down the street for his aesthetic build and will get eye-fucked by women.

[Nascimento]

Despite some different opinions, I think we can all conclude the OP is doing very well for himself, considering he is in better shape than 95% of the population.

It's basically the look I am aiming for, shredded. Currently at 155 lbs, 5'8, but around 18% body fat, and I have small bone structure. A decent base of mass but I store most of my fat in the torso. I aim to be ~160 lean, low teens body fat within the next couple years.

[MikeCF]

(08-27-2013 09:51 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Mike, let's be honest, those are fuzzy pics with him standing a foot away from the camera. It's intentionally misleading. It's the same way chicks turn themselves from 4's into 7's online with tricky camera angles. If the lens was a few inches closer this guy would look like the Hulk.

Sure, he's too small for what I'm going for.

But this isn't a bodybuilding message board.

This is mostly regular guys (not steroid users or mass monsters or mens fitness models) who are trying to better themselves.

I don't see any reason to discourage someone who is putting in work.

[Teddykgb]

I'm 5'11" 165lbs and I feel fucking skinny. I guess it is all how you carry yourself. I just started doing the protein shakes yesterday and already gained 1lbs. I dont go super hard at the gym. I usually just pick 3 lifts each day and do 3 reps of 10 along with 100 sit ups.

[WanderingSoul]

Nice build OP. Is there a reason you haven't switched to heavy weights and increased your food intake a bit?

You don't have to bulk and cut and bulk. You are so lean you could slow bulk and pit on extra muscle if you wanted I think.

What type of diet are you on? Do you do IF or count your macros or anything?

[Hades]

MikeCF Wrote:

He doesn't weigh much because you can see that he has small joints and his bone structure isn't large.

My guess is that he hasn't put on a lot of lower body mass. I was 185# before hitting the squat rack and 215# afterwards with little change to my upper body and about the same amount of body fat.

OP, saying that your training is "bodyweight" is pretty nebulous. Technically an olympic gymnast, Charles Bronson, and a capoeirista can all say the same thing. Can you go into some more detail on your routine? Do you work legs with bodyweight as well? Otherwise props man, looking great!

[Veloce]

I actually have a hard time believing the OP is 165 at 6'2". Those were my exact stats most of my life and i was a stringbean. OP isn't just lean, he's got legit mass on him. With that kind of mass, it just doesn't seem likely, if even possible to weigh in at 165.

OP, you weigh in on a medical scale?

But all that aside, you look great man. I'm not going to get into whether you should bulk or not, instead I'm curious as to what your workouts are like.

Can you give a quick rundown? How has your routine evolved from year 1, to year 3, to current? Compounds or machines? I'm assume high reps low weight. You targeting specific areas 6 days a week or doing full body work 3-5 days a week?

Drop some more info if you wouldn't mind.

[MikeCF]

^ 1. Every guy lies (to himself and others) about his height.

2. It all depends on your frame. I have relatively broad shoulders. At my height, 165 makes me look small. But I also always had bigger quads and a smaller upper body.

If the guy has a small frame and skips leg day, it's not hard to believe he's at that weight.

Also, that pic was undoubtedly taken after a workout and with a full pump. So it's exaggerated.

[RussianSoul]

Wow, lot of questions/comments here. I will try to get to them all.

Several guys asked about my workouts. For the last year, it has only been body weight. My routine is built around two exercises(and variations): Pushups and Pullups. Mind-numbingly simple I know but don't let it fool you. My workouts are brutal. 3-4 times a week for a little under an hour. I super set between push/pull exercises and take very little rests. Yesterday, for example, 5 sets of handstand pushups to nose (14,12,10,8,6) supersetted with chins(18,14,13,10,10). Then, I will do some burnout exercises that are easy for me. Decline/close grip pushups with inverted rows or something like that and than some bw squats.. I can't stress enough the importance of form. I go slow when doing these exercises, usually a 2-1-2 rhythm, sometimes slower. I really visualize tearing up the muscle fibers in the muscle I am targeting. Its sounds crazy but it works. It took me a good 2-3 years before I learned how to really activate a muscle. Most guys never learn, they are just throwing weight around.

As for diet, I think its grossly overrated. The whole 50/50 training-diet equation is bogus. I have know many many guys with perfect diets that have very little to show for it. Busting your ass is what makes the difference. I eat when I am hungry, no calorie or macro counting. I eat a stupendous amount of carbs(roughly 400 grams a day on average).That said, I try to follow a few basic nutritional rules. 1.) If there's protein around, eat it. 2.) Try to get a decent amount of fruit/veggies everyday 3.) Eat plenty of healthy fats(I go through 2-3 jars of peanut butter a week). Its very simple. Eat good wholesome food, stay away from shit like soda, and workout till you puke. If you do that, your physique will transform.

Edit: 4.) I forgot, drink your fucking water. Your muscles are mainly water...I drink 1.5-2 gallons a day.

[defguy]

@ Scorpion thedude3737 and MikeCF dont make assumptions based on the height and weight. Go to a regional/state/national wrestling meet. Youll see guys that look 20-40lbs heavier than they really are. Something happens where your body gets real lean, your muscles swell up 24/7 and not just when your pumped. Hard to describe till you see it for yourself. Most people assume I weight 160lbs but really I weght 145, sometimes closer to 140lbs. I was bigger and lighter back in my wrestling days. People assumed I weighted 170 when I really walked around at 150. Im easily lighter than many people smaller AND shorter than me. Could be genes, could be something else, not sure. Just cuz you dont have it doesnt me its not out there. The OP is right, as far as size goes weight is a myth.

I personally believe when you hit a certain level of fitness your body is pumped 24/7 and you get that look 20lbs heavier than you really are. I wouldnt be shocked if OP can do easily 50+ dips nonstop and close to 30+ pullups nonstop.

[iknowexactly]

(08-28-2013 01:53 AM)defguy Wrote:  

@ Scorpion thedude3737 and MikeCF dont make assumptions based on the height and weight. Go to a regional/state/national wrestling meet. Youll see guys that look 20-40lbs heavier than they really are.

I've noticed this phenomenon with boxers-- they'll be in something like 150 LB weight class and their arms and chests are just fucking popping with muscle.

[RussianSoul]

(08-27-2013 05:52 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

You say you would like to be bigger but your training is bodyweight only. That's like saying you would like to be a player but you refuse to approach and rely exclusively on women opening you.

Have you actually tried dedicating yourself to a solid weightlifting routine and bulking diet for a few months? If not, you should give it a shot. My natural frame without heavy lifting is not too far off yours (6', 170ish) but these days I roll around at a little over 200 lbs with visible definition. The difference in how both men and women react is night and day. You probably have a lot of room to gain mass and could still maintain a low BF%. Not trying to hate on you or anything. Your physique is good now if you're going for that male model look. But if you've never put on any mass and have only been cut, you aren't in a position to be extolling the virtues of one over the other.

Looking cut and toned is fun when you take your shirt off, and will impress a good percentage of women you've taken home; being big is fun all the time, and will impress/intimidate everyone you interact with. A low bodyfat just can't compete with being a larger and more muscular human being. And it's not just me saying this. Any guy who's ever put on a good amount of lean mass will tell you the exact same thing.

All valid criticisms, man. I did Starting Strength and GOMAD for about 5 months when I was 19 and got up to about 195 lbs. I was NOT happy with the look. I put on a lot of fat and most of the mass went to my legs/ass. No joke, it took about a year before I could wear dress pants again. I have thought about doing a slow/smart bulk with weights again but my schedule hasn't really allowed it and honestly I hate gyms. This may be shocking but my upper body is a lot bigger than it was after SS despite being 30lbs lighter. And I look pretty big even with my clothes on, a large Ralph Lauren polo is 'snug' on me. I have friends my height in the 200lbs range and I don't look smaller standing next to them. When I walk into a nightclub, I am easily one of the most muscular guys in there(granted I live in Europe).

[RussianSoul]

(08-28-2013 01:16 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

^ 1. Every guy lies (to himself and others) about his height.

2. It all depends on your frame. I have relatively broad shoulders. At my height, 165 makes me look small. But I also always had bigger quads and a smaller upper body.

If the guy has a small frame and skips leg day, it's not hard to believe he's at that weight.

Also, that pic was undoubtedly taken after a workout and with a full pump. So it's exaggerated.

Mikey, your not going to make me get out the measuring tape now are you? My legs are not big but they aren't small either, pretty proportional As for those pics, yea, they are about an hour post-work so I have a slight pump, nothing serious.

[little wing]

Man you look great, don't listen to what some guys here say.
I am aiming for the same physique after bulking and then cutting