http://www.alternet.org/environment/scie...-less-hour

So, I guess that makes our oil based economy bunk eh.

Quote: (12-25-2013 10:05 PM)BadWolf Wrote:  

http://www.alternet.org/environment/scie...-less-hour

So, I guess that makes our oil based economy bunk eh.

I love algal based biodiesel. It's up there with cellusoic ethanol.

WIA

1. 5 litres an hour. I think my drilling job is safe for a little while yet.

Interesting article though.

Cool experiment but the premise is retarded.

Let's grow algae then use Tons of energy to turn it into oil.

Why not just genetically modify some bacteria to turn hydrocarbons (ie garbage) into hydrogen gas or hell just convert garbage into oil if we love that shit so much.

Quote: (12-25-2013 11:31 PM)WesternCancer Wrote:  

Cool experiment but the premise is retarded.

Let's grow algae then use Tons of energy to turn it into oil.

Why not just genetically modify some bacteria to turn hydrocarbons (ie garbage) into hydrogen gas or hell just convert garbage into oil if we love that shit so much.

They didn't mention how much energy is used in the process. It seems like every time I read one of these game changing new energy technologies, you find out that they are burning nearly as much fuel as they created.

Agreed. Just like how seperating hydrogen from oxygen in water takes more energy than hydrogen powered devices output.

Quote: (12-26-2013 12:54 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

It seems like every time I read one of these game changing new energy technologies, you find out that they are burning nearly as much fuel as they created.

Yup, second law of thermodynamics.
If you really want a next generation fuel source, start pushing for nuclear, because that's the only place we're going to find it.

I actually think this is pretty good, but for other reasons. Because of danger, regulations and plain fear, we can't make a nuclear car engine. It's a very good idea, but the whole 50's fucked it up for at least the next 100 or more years. We could power a bus for a year with an incredibly minuscule spec of material, and we have the tech to get it right at this very moment, but for all the stated reasons and some others (political and all other greedy reasons), it just won't be pushed. So say we can't put nuclear power in a car, but at least we can put some of that power into some fuel, previously thought as non-renewable. Let them streamline the process a bit more, it is not such a bad direction.

Meh, natural gas is abundant and could be used in vehicles, buses, trucks and trains. I am sure this little research project was funded by some xyz agency at the tune of a cool billion. Yay!

It isn't about the research; it is about who is getting paid. Follow the money. Who is getting the research grants and subsidies for this?

Research into turning algae into diesel has been going on since the oil crisis of the seventies. Primarily done by government labs, and later by research universities.

The private sector doesn't fund anything truly forward looking, because they only value quarterly numbers.

There's no thermodynamic reason this process can't yield a net positive energy - the energy is ultimately coming from the sun not from the refining process. When crude oil is 'cracked' it's heated up to 600 C. A portion of the cracked oil can be fed back into the burner and the process is self sustaining. What's huge here is that they don't have to boil off the water first. That saves a lot of energy. In a large scale plant they'd be able to recover a lot of heat from the water before recycling it back into the algae growing pond.

And as others have mentioned, even if it's slightly energy negative, or not positive enough to justify the costs, it still might have value as a way to convert nuclear energy into oil products that can be burned in existing engines and generators.

Snipped - going into a new post.

The problem with energy is that 99% of the people in the world have never taken thermodynamics in college, and as a result, have absolutely no friggin clue what they are talking about.

Solar, algae, wind, nuclear, oil, thorium reactors (LOL) and others. All these are controlled by a few very harsh natural laws that internet commenters totally misunderstand. Just sayin.

So, regarding the original post...from a thermodynamic viewpoint it doesn't really matter if you have a great way to convert algae into oil or not. Because growing algae takes massive land space, water, fertilizer, and transportation that makes it 500% net energy negative.

If you are going to grow Algae, grow it for it's food value, which is 10X it's energy value. The world is starving for cheap food to feed China, and if we don't get it, we'll have a Chinese world war on our hands.

Give China cheap protein and save the world. Really. Now that is a great use for Algae.