TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Printable Version

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TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Leonard D Neubache - 02-01-2018

Quote: (01-31-2018 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:

This one is waaay too good to pass up and not discuss.
...

6. If you take Aikido, or Japanese Ju Jitsu (JJ), you can easily break out of these. Using SJM (Small Joint Manipulation), which is illegal in BJJ to use generally, you could break that grip without wasting energy, get the guy off you, and run away (if it makes sense to do so).
...

By small joint maniupulation do you mean taking one of his fingers and basically twisting it back until it snaps or his hold loosens? That would be my first go-to.

There's another option. Keep one hand up to keep your airway clear, turn on the car and send it flying into the nearest wall. Fatty has a seatbelt and an airbag. The guy in the back? Not so much. [Image: lol.gif]

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - TravelerKai - 02-01-2018

Quote: (02-01-2018 09:52 AM)Ringo Wrote:

Quote: (01-31-2018 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:

This one is waaay too good to pass up and not discuss.

How many of you think you could have gotten out of this shitty rear naked chokehold? Have you had any training to know how to do so? This is yet another reason to learn some form of a grappling style (BJJ, Aikido, JJ, Judo, Wrestling) for even just one years worth of time. Boxing would not help you in this situation.

Some quick tips, if this ever happens to you:

1. Pressure Point #10 on the tip of the nose, push it with your thumb and you can peel him off you. You have to push hard and fully commit to pushing the tip of his nose to the side, otherwise he could bob his head down and out of your grip. Use your other 4 fingers and cup his chin and jaw. Use your other hand to pull his choke off.

2. Use both hands under his elbow and push it upward to the sky. If that is not enough, go to number 3.

3. Turn your face into the direction of his chest while doing number 2. Ideally on the grappling mat, during practice, you would always do 2 and 3 together. However, this is a self defense situation. Turning your neck unnecessarily could get you hurt even more.

4. If the above fails, attempt to punch his eyes. He would have to drop some of that grip to avoid that, but you better bring your hands up to cover your face when he does, otherwise he will punch your lights out.

5. Never let yourself get as fat as that guy. Not only did his weight get in the way of his self defense, it contributed to him getting stuck in his seat and unable to pull away from a shitty rear naked choke. This guy's choke was as bad as a first day student in a BJJ class. Maybe worse. A correctly done choke makes a person pass out in 3 seconds. Most decent white belts (with stripes) can do that.

6. If you take Aikido, or Japanese Ju Jitsu (JJ), you can easily break out of these. Using SJM (Small Joint Manipulation), which is illegal in BJJ to use generally, you could break that grip without wasting energy, get the guy off you, and run away (if it makes sense to do so).

Anyway, tell me what you guys think about the video as well as some lessons learned. I gotta get back to it.

EDIT: egregious mistakes

Damn. That's the worst chokehold I've ever seen. Still, it's disturbing to see how even a shitty move can work on you if you are totally untrained. I sometimes forget how little most people know about leveraging, positioning, pressuring, etc.

If the cabbie had pushed the guy's left elbow up, he'd be practically out, the aggressor barely had a grip. You mentioned SJM - after removing the left arm, he could probably have peeled the guy's right arm (the choking arm) off if he grabbed one finger and pulled it/yanked it from left to right.

I think one of the most important takeaways from this video is something that I think you've touched upon before - you gotta fight back.

I was listening to someone on JRE recently and they were talking about how most people associate danger with going into "fight or flight" mode. In reality, it's more like fight, flight or freeze, and most people tend to freeze.

I think he's instinctively doing the right thing by turning to the side he's being choked - it gives him a bit more space to breathe. But he doesn't put up much of a fight. He attemps to break the chokehold, not hurt the aggressor.

Anyways one thing that I think would really get in the way in this scenario is the seatbelt. Presuming I'd escaped that choke first thing I would try to do is get out of the car but by the time I had undone the seatbelt and opened the door the guy might have grabbed me again.

This is a very challening scenario - you have your back to the guy, close quarters, multiple objects in the way.

Excellent points about fight or flight and how people freeze.

The seatbelt isn't an issue. It's only an issue in a gunfight. In a gun scenario, you have to practice hitting that seatbelt button with your offhand, while keeping the gun hand pointed towards the aggressor. You also have to practice tossing the belt off your chest with that off hand. Since there are so many steps involved, you have to practice doing this from time to time to stay sharp. This is also another reason not to carry your handgun on your waist while in the car. Steering wheel mount or console mounted is better for too many reasons to list.

Another thing he could have done if he lacked skillset, would be to turn off the car and use the keys to stab the guys arm with them.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - TravelerKai - 02-01-2018

Quote: (02-01-2018 10:04 AM)Ringo Wrote:

Side note. found a video that shows similar technique to what I've learned. This is for a front choke but you can see the finger locks. I was very surprised at how effective they were on me when I resisted against them.

Actually those finger locks would not work very well in this scenario.

You want to try stuff like this:

start @1:46 mark

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - TravelerKai - 02-01-2018

Quote: (02-01-2018 10:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:

Quote: (01-31-2018 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:

This one is waaay too good to pass up and not discuss.
...

6. If you take Aikido, or Japanese Ju Jitsu (JJ), you can easily break out of these. Using SJM (Small Joint Manipulation), which is illegal in BJJ to use generally, you could break that grip without wasting energy, get the guy off you, and run away (if it makes sense to do so).
...

By small joint maniupulation do you mean taking one of his fingers and basically twisting it back until it snaps or his hold loosens? That would be my first go-to.

There's another option. Keep one hand up to keep your airway clear, turn on the car and send it flying into the nearest wall. Fatty has a seatbelt and an airbag. The guy in the back? Not so much.

Check the 3 videos I just posted.

Wrecking on purpose? That's hardcore. Freaking Australians.

As a obese man, crashing may not be a good idea. He might be stuck or trapped in the car with injuries, with a dead guy on his dash bleeding all over him. Yuck.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Ringo - 02-01-2018

Dupe.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Ringo - 02-01-2018

@TK:

Thanks for the videos!

Quote: (02-01-2018 11:20 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:

Quote: (02-01-2018 10:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:

Quote: (01-31-2018 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:

This one is waaay too good to pass up and not discuss.
...

6. If you take Aikido, or Japanese Ju Jitsu (JJ), you can easily break out of these. Using SJM (Small Joint Manipulation), which is illegal in BJJ to use generally, you could break that grip without wasting energy, get the guy off you, and run away (if it makes sense to do so).
...

By small joint maniupulation do you mean taking one of his fingers and basically twisting it back until it snaps or his hold loosens? That would be my first go-to.

There's another option. Keep one hand up to keep your airway clear, turn on the car and send it flying into the nearest wall. Fatty has a seatbelt and an airbag. The guy in the back? Not so much.

Check the 3 videos I just posted.

Wrecking on purpose? That's hardcore. Freaking Australians.

As a obese man, crashing may not be a good idea. He might be stuck or trapped in the car with injuries, with a dead guy on his dash bleeding all over him. Yuck.

Not sure if Leonard was serious or not, but in any case and wrecklessness aside, it would be dangerous - if the crash was fast enough the guy in the back would come flying off through the front of the car and hit the driver hard.

Sure, the aggressor would get fucked up, but so would the driver.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Parzival - 02-01-2018

Quote: (02-01-2018 12:02 PM)Ringo Wrote:

@TK:

Thanks for the videos!

Quote: (02-01-2018 11:20 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:

Quote: (02-01-2018 10:12 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:

Quote: (01-31-2018 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:

This one is waaay too good to pass up and not discuss.
...

6. If you take Aikido, or Japanese Ju Jitsu (JJ), you can easily break out of these. Using SJM (Small Joint Manipulation), which is illegal in BJJ to use generally, you could break that grip without wasting energy, get the guy off you, and run away (if it makes sense to do so).
...

By small joint maniupulation do you mean taking one of his fingers and basically twisting it back until it snaps or his hold loosens? That would be my first go-to.

There's another option. Keep one hand up to keep your airway clear, turn on the car and send it flying into the nearest wall. Fatty has a seatbelt and an airbag. The guy in the back? Not so much.

Check the 3 videos I just posted.

Wrecking on purpose? That's hardcore. Freaking Australians.

As a obese man, crashing may not be a good idea. He might be stuck or trapped in the car with injuries, with a dead guy on his dash bleeding all over him. Yuck.

Not sure if Leonard was serious or not, but in any case and wrecklessness aside, it would be dangerous - if the crash was fast enough the guy in the back would come flying off through the front of the car and hit the driver hard.

Sure, the aggressor would get fucked up, but so would the driver.

Then better get a German car!

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Leonard D Neubache - 02-02-2018

If you're not capable of breaking the choke then better to wreck the car than be left at the mercy of a guy that might not stop until your dead.

Besides, a 40-50kph crash will be enough to put the guy across the front window with minimal damage to yourself and no catastrophic damage to the car, at which point you can get out or beat the ever living shit out of him. As a bonus it's going to attract a lot of attention.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Richard Turpin - 02-02-2018

I've only trained in Judo (which wouldn't really help me as a defender in this scenario, other than make me instinctively use my two hands against his one), but I'd say that breaking fingers, poking eyes, using two hands against one and yes, even crashing the car are all worth a go here.

However, (and this I have had experience with!) and as already stated above, if the choke was a good one you'd be out like a light in 3 or 4 seconds! I've gone out myself this quickly when sparring when I first started out and that's why I've always tapped early forever afterwards.

Once a decent choke is on you're fucked basically. I remember going crazy as a white belt trying to google 'how to defend chokes and strangles' before I eventually realized that the big secret was not to get caught in the first place, because then its game over.

Situational Awareness, prevention and experience might be the big take-home lessons from this one.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - budoslavic - 02-09-2018

Quote: (02-01-2018 09:52 AM)Ringo Wrote:

Quote: (01-31-2018 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:

2. Use both hands under his elbow and push it upward to the sky. If that is not enough, go to number 3.

6. If you take Aikido, or Japanese Ju Jitsu (JJ), you can easily break out of these. Using SJM (Small Joint Manipulation), which is illegal in BJJ to use generally, you could break that grip without wasting energy, get the guy off you, and run away (if it makes sense to do so).

If the cabbie had pushed the guy's left elbow up, he'd be practically out, the aggressor barely had a grip.

The ones in bold were already mentioned so I don't have to repeat them.

There are other self-defense tactics. When done correctly, pressure points can be useful in this situation. It's a bit tricky though.

* cabbie should have used some kind of objects like a car key to strike the back of his hands

* one can strike the bones in the back of the robber's hand with either a single-knuckle punch or a regular punch to get him to loosen or release the chokehold grip

* one can place his thumb under the robber's bicep or above the robber's elbow area and squeeze it, like this (starts around :50):

Other than that, don't get lazy or fat.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - xmlenigma - 02-11-2018

Red Pill Shaolin Wisdom about Women..

Quote: (08-26-2016 08:32 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:

Exit the Dragon? Kung Fu, Once Central to Hong Kong Life, Is Waning

Quote:Quote:

HONG KONG — Bruce Lee was 14 years old, and on the losing end of several street fights with local gang members, when he took up kung fu.

It was 1955, and Hong Kong was bustling with schools teaching a range of kung fu styles, including close-combat techniques and a method using a daunting weapon known as the nine-dragon trident.

Mr. Lee’s decision paid off. After perfecting moves like his one-inch punch and leaping kick under the tutelage of a grand master, he became an international star, introducing kung fu to the world in films like “Enter the Dragon” in 1973.

Decades later, cue the dragon’s exit.

The kung fu culture that Mr. Lee helped popularize — and that gave the city a gritty, exotic image in the eyes of foreigners — is in decline. Hong Kong’s streets are safer, with fewer murders by the fierce crime organizations known as triads that figured in so many kung fu films. And its real estate is among the world’s most expensive, making it difficult for training studios to afford soaring rents.

Gone are the days when “kung fu was a big part of people’s cultural and leisure life,” said Mak King Sang Ricardo, the author of a history of martial arts in Hong Kong. “After work, people would go to martial arts schools, where they’d cook dinner together and practice kung fu until 11 at night.”

With a shift in martial arts preferences, the rise of video games — more teenagers play Pokémon Go in parks here than practice a roundhouse kick — and a perception among young people that kung fu just isn’t cool, longtime martial artists worry that kung fu’s future is bleak.

“When I was growing up so many people learned kung fu, but that’s no longer the case,” said Leung Ting, 69, who has been teaching wing chun, a close-combat technique, for 50 years. “Sadly, I think Chinese martial arts are more popular overseas than in their home now.”

According to Mr. Leung’s organization, the International WingTsun Association, former apprentices have opened 4,000 branches in more than 65 countries, but only five in Hong Kong.

Few kung fu schools remain in Yau Ma Tei, a district of Kowloon that was once the center for martial arts. Nathan Road — where the young Bruce Lee learned his craft from Ip Man (often spelled Yip Man), the legendary teacher who was the subject of Wong Kar-wai’s 2013 film “The Grandmaster” — is now lined with cosmetic shops and pharmacies that cater to tourists from the mainland.

Though he lives in Yau Ma Tei, Tony Choi, a recent college graduate, has never been tempted to check out the remaining schools. Mr. Choi, 22, said that “kung fu just never came to mind.”

He added, “Kung fu is more for retired uncles and grandpas.”

When they do train in martial arts, younger people here tend to pick Thai boxing and judo.

Valerie Ng, a 20-year-old college student, says she prefers Thai boxing because it is “attractive and charming” and does not take as long to master. She noted that kung fu masters often do not have defined muscles and that some of them look, well, a little chubby.

“You can see how fierce Thai boxing is from watching professional matches,” she said. “But I rarely see such competition for kung fu, which makes me wonder whether those kung fu masters really are good at fighting or they just claim to be,” she said.

So Tak Chung, 59, remembers how different things were. When he was a boy, he and his friends would run home from school as fast as they could to watch kung fu shows on television.

“Kung fu always gave me a sense of justice and pride in being Chinese,” Mr. So said while stretching his legs for a Sunday night lesson at Kowloon Park. “It feels like if you knew kung fu, you could beat the bad guys and help the needy.”

Mr. So’s master, Mak Che Kong, 64, is less hopeful about the future. He ran one of the last studios in Kowloon in the 1980s, but soaring rents caused it to shut down, along with other family businesses that were once a fixture of Hong Kong street life, like Dit Da, or bone-setting, shops that use traditional Chinese medicine to treat sprains and fractures.

Mr. Mak, who is not related to the author of the martial arts history, has fewer than 20 students now, down from twice that number several years ago. Most students are over the age of 40.

He holds classes all over the city because “students will not come if they need to travel much.” On Tuesdays, he teaches at a pier in the city’s Central District; on Wednesdays, near a government marriage registry in Sha Tin in the New Territories; and on Sundays, at a public park in Kowloon. On Mondays and Fridays, he teaches at a kung fu school in a warehouse opened by one of his students.

Describing himself as “old school,” Mr. Mak fiercely defended kung fu traditions. “Chinese kung fu is not about fighting; it is about patience and hard work,” he said.

When he learned kung fu in the late 1960s, masters were father figures and apprentices had deep respect for kung fu. Students were willing to spend months or years perfecting just their horse-riding stance, a rest position often used for practicing punches and strengthening the legs and back.

“Today, if you ask a student to practice horse-riding stance for one lesson, he will not come again,” Mr. Mak said. “They are used to living a comfortable life.”

In English, kung fu is often used as an umbrella term for all Chinese martial arts. But in Chinese, it refers to any discipline or skill that is achieved through hard work.

Kung fu traces its history to ancient China, with hundreds of fighting styles developing over the centuries. But it soared in popularity at the beginning of the 20th century, as revolution swept the nation.

After the fall of the Qing dynasty a century ago, the Chinese Nationalist party, or the Kuomintang, used martial arts to promote national pride, setting up competitions and sending an exhibition team to the Olympics. But the government also tried to suppress wuxia, a martial arts genre of literature and film, as superstitious and potentially subversive.

When the Nationalists fell in 1949, the new Communist government in Beijing sought to control martial arts from the Chinese mainland. The Shaolin Temple, said to be the home of Asian martial arts in central China, was ransacked during the Cultural Revolution of 1966-76 and its Buddhist monks jailed.

Throughout those decades, martial artists from mainland China sought refuge in what was then the British colony of Hong Kong.

By the 1970s, kung fu fever had spread around the world. In addition to Bruce Lee’s films, the television series “Kung Fu,” starring David Carradine, became one of the most popular programs in the United States.

Though Hong Kong’s kung fu films do not draw the attention they once did, the genre has influenced a generation of directors, including Quentin Tarantino and Ang Lee, and the actor Jackie Chan and others have kept it alive as comedy.

In a twist, kung fu has enjoyed a renaissance in mainland China, where the government has standardized it and promoted it in secondary schools as a sport known as wushu to foster national pride.

As the martial arts center of gravity shifts to the mainland, some in Hong Kong have expressed hope that the government might support a revival here, too. Others are trying to carry on the tradition themselves.

Li Zhuangxin, a trim 17-year-old, has been studying the wing chun technique for more than four years. He was inspired by his grandfather, a devotee of the fighting style hung ga who gave Mr. Li his first kung fu lesson at age 8.

He hopes to open his own kung fu school one day — maybe on the mainland, where interest is higher and rents are cheaper — and has already set up a small wing chun club, with eight members, at his high school.

Few of his classmates had ever heard of wing chun before. Mr. Li, undaunted, says he wants to impart “the concentration and determination of kung fu” to his friends, who he laments are “only interested in playing with their cellphones.”

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Dalaran1991 - 02-20-2018

Finally got my black belt in Aikido after almmost 5 years. Now I can finally set it aside and learn something else (while incorporating it) like Pencat Silat.

During my test I pivoted hard on my left knees and hurt it bad. Senseis would always scream "pivot on both kness damn it". For a whole week whenever I run or climb the stairs my knee would hurt like a fucking old woman.
After a week without sports I said fuck it and goes to fencing class. We did some heavy sparring and I got hit hard multiple times on that knees. Walking home was painful.

Then I woke up the next morning, the pain is gone. It was so natural I didnt even notice it at first until I ran around later in the day.

I swear our body is just as fickle and unpredictable as a chick's mood.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Richard Turpin - 02-20-2018

Even though I haven't always read complementary things about Aikido and I understand a lot of the objections (lack of 'aliveness', compliant uke's etc), I've always thought of it as a potential good fit for myself personally. I've also took note that the people I know in the Judo community who've also practiced Aikido rate the art highly despite the naysayers.

I did a little boxing sparring in my youth and a good few years of Judo until recently and I'm now of an age where getting punched in the face or tied up in knots by 18 year old meat-heads doesn't appeal as much as it used to in my own youth.
Judo is great, but I couldn't help noticing that literally every adult in my class was carrying an injury. It's also no coincidence that until I started Judo I'd never been to a doctor once in my life, but since taking it up I've been 3 times in as many years!

Nevertheless, the desire to learn self-defence continues and I know of at least two Aikido clubs close by that I could try.

I feel that both boxing and Judo are intended to fuck people up totally and that once you've thrown a punch or committed to throw someone onto their heads and put them through the floor the end result can often be overkill (the emphasis on 'kill'). Aikido may well fill a middle ground? Whereby you can render an attacker compliant without having to destroy them? Hence, it's use by law enforcement. I dunno, I've a feeling that I'll end up signing up and trying for myself, but I'd love to know the thoughts of the forum on Aikido.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Leonard D Neubache - 02-20-2018

So the older of my boys is getting to that age where he's getting a bit fightey. Fortunately he wants to learn proper form but despite my suggestions in other martial directions he's firmly enamoured with boxing. It's getting a bit crazy around the house. This is about as close an example as I can find.

I don't think he's going to pursue it competitively so I really want to focus on the facets of that particular sport that contribute to a capacity for self defence.

I'm keen to hear any suggestions about what sort of gear and routines are suitable for that kind of application. He initially wanted me to use sparring pads (the glove kind) but I'm hesitant to condition him to "hit for a win by points" if you know what I mean, particularly because this is an outlet for that genuine teenage aggression.

I'm wondering what would be better. To focus on working with a hanging bag, use a larger shield type sparring pad or go all out and buy one of those expensive boxing dummies.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Richard Turpin - 02-20-2018

I'm in a similar situation with my own boy. Fortunately we've both spent time with Judo so can roll around 'fun-fighting' while I simultaneously try to give him the skills he needs to get out of trouble etc.

Regarding boxing training; kids are drawn to punching (and kicking) naturally so I'm not surprised your son wants to give it a try. In my situation, we have a heavy bag in the garage and its enough for him and I to just do a few 3 minute rounds, interspersed with random (and unexpected) bouts of 'rough-housing' that I make sure contains plenty of armlocks, strangles and escapes. I try to control my inner Tackleberry so as to preserve the furniture!

The problem is, that it's very difficult to train someone in boxing without having been trained in it yourself. I did a little (briefly) in my teens but I wouldn't know enough to be able to confidently hold boxing mitts for my son for example and for him to get the most out of it. All I did was 'spar' with my amateur boxer friend who, when looking back basically used me as a punchbag. Even hitting the heavy bag can be a recipe for disaster as everyone just hits it as hard as they can when they start out (without taping their hands or even using gloves) and they end up hurting themselves. I hope someone more versed in boxing on here can give some tips as if they are simple enough I'd be willing to use them myself.

The boring answer I'm afraid is that a good boxing gym would be best in order to learn the basics (after that, you can practice on your own). If you both went together you could practice at home with each other and both learn even quicker.

EDIT: Just went way back to the beginning of the thread and found some great info from Travelerkai that I'd missed first time around. I like what I've read, and as this is an itch I have to scratch I'm gonna sign up for a few lessons and see how it goes.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Leonard D Neubache - 02-20-2018

Being out in the sticks my options are limited. Youtube has some good videos on wrapping techniques to protect knuckles and wrists so I'm reasonably well covered there, but nearly all of my training and life experience is in non-striking fields so this is going to be a learning experience for both of us I think.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - H1N1 - 02-20-2018

He has to spar if you want it to be of any use to him. Everything goes out of the window when you get hit. It takes a lot of rounds with resisting opponents to overcome that. Typically about 100 rounds - or 300 minutes of fighting against other guys who already know what they are doing. Boxing is the greatest sport, and in my view much better than many give it credit for from a self defence perspective. There are few things that bring out the fight in you like it, and none of the grappling arts, of which I am a huge fan, come close to giving you the experience of being on the receiving end of the raw nastiness that is being repeatedly punched with venom. It's a totally different psychological experience.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Dalaran1991 - 02-20-2018

@Richard: Aikido has a shitty reputation because all people see are guys in long skirts running around doing fancy rolls and backflip. Most people who try it dismiss it immediately because "no one would attack you like that in real life". Heh.

The reality is that I first learned Aikido from a bunch of black cops who patroll downtown Richmond, VA. Let that sink in for a moment. These black cops who are used to dealing with shitty neighborhood in Richmond teach Aikido, and believe it's a good idea to incorporate it into their job.

Japan police have to learn aikido in order to gain certain promotion.

When you consider that Aikido was developed by a tiny, psychotic and sadistic Japanese badass (no disrespect to O'Sensei) who fought during the war, interrogate prisoners and train the Jap special forces, then survived the war, you really oughta think twice before dismissing it.

The problem is, after his "enlightenment" he decided to "hide" all of his techniques, so you end up seeing a bunch of choreographed moves with some guys in skirts. Very very few Aikidoka even understand why the techniques was done in a specific way. The fancy looking kotegaeshi and shihonage techniques in reality are just wrist break or arm break accompanied/preceded by a jab to the face. Apparently if you do it that way you run out of training partner pretty quickly, so that's why...

=====================================

Back to the matter. If you want to learn self defence it's best to begin with something with a fast learning curve. Aikido is extremely effective and deadly (its main techniques come from Jujutsu, which were used to defeat armored samurai) but you need to be able to apply it. That means good footwork, body coordination, how to hit and how to NOT get hit first.

Aikido is pretty bad as a starting martial arts but is a fuckhuge force multiplier if you incorporate it into something else. Aikido teaches you ample movement and dodging (big deal IRL), the basics of dealing with weapons, and, as far as I know, is the only system that teaches defense against multiple attackers.

Really, I would take aikido just for its emphasis on situational awareness. The best fight is when you are not there.

Plus, it's probably the only martial arts that's gonna make you look good in court. Aikido's submission hold/choke are peace makers and if you can/want to pull it off you avoid a shit ton of headache. Truthfully the majority of violence a modern person might run into can be easily diffused by just walking away, or failling that a submission choke. Throwing a haymaker or breaking his bones will cost quite a lot in lawyer fees even if you are the victim.

This right here is Aikido done right. Never know when you might get attacked by trans feminist [Image: lol.gif]

Great thing about Aikido is that it's a journey that changes with you. You can do it at 4 yo, at 18, 30 or 60. Can't say the same for boxing.

If you are dead set on using similar art, learn Jujutsu. Bigger brother of Aikido.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Kahler - 02-21-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 08:46 AM)H1N1 Wrote:

He has to spar if you want it to be of any use to him. Everything goes out of the window when you get hit. It takes a lot of rounds with resisting opponents to overcome that. Typically about 100 rounds - or 300 minutes of fighting against other guys who already know what they are doing. Boxing is the greatest sport, and in my view much better than many give it credit for from a self defence perspective. There are few things that bring out the fight in you like it, and none of the grappling arts, of which I am a huge fan, come close to giving you the experience of being on the receiving end of the raw nastiness that is being repeatedly punched with venom. It's a totally different psychological experience.

I would be very hesitant to letting my child do boxing sparring. Brain damage from this is not a joke unfortunately. Grappling also can have some nasty consequences, but I would definitely prefer that.

I do both, but started with striking not so long ago, and I'm 26. If I had a son, i would not let him until he's at least 18-19 probably.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - king bast - 02-21-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 07:25 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:

So the older of my boys is getting to that age where he's getting a bit fightey. Fortunately he wants to learn proper form but despite my suggestions in other martial directions he's firmly enamoured with boxing. It's getting a bit crazy around the house. This is about as close an example as I can find.

I don't think he's going to pursue it competitively so I really want to focus on the facets of that particular sport that contribute to a capacity for self defence.

I'm keen to hear any suggestions about what sort of gear and routines are suitable for that kind of application. He initially wanted me to use sparring pads (the glove kind) but I'm hesitant to condition him to "hit for a win by points" if you know what I mean, particularly because this is an outlet for that genuine teenage aggression.

I'm wondering what would be better. To focus on working with a hanging bag, use a larger shield type sparring pad or go all out and buy one of those expensive boxing dummies.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

What are your options in the area? Maybe there isn't a commercial gym or dojo handy, but perhaps a local former golden gloves champ that you could offer twenty bucks to run you through his old workouts? At least someone to get you started, I think learning from youtube will create more problems than it solves.

Once theyve given you the basics you can practice as much as you like and you don't need much gear to do so. A skipping rope, a hanging bag, a set of focus mitts and a pair of gloves is all you need. The most important equipment however, is bodies. People to train with and against. You'll need to know the combos, and which ones to chain together, better than he does if you're holding the pads. Getting his peers involved brings competition and camaraderie, which makes the pursuit that much more fruitful.

Sparring is an essential part of training, and people generally aren't dickheads about it so long as the boundaries of what is acceptable is known. If someones too aggressive, you let them know. He doesn't have to get this head clubbed in, the level of aggression and power is agreed by mutual consent. Dont worry about him getting brain damage or anything. I sparred with men as a matter of course at 13 and my brain is uiyl;oiyre389['gxayo0[iyyyyy........,hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhd

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Leonard D Neubache - 02-21-2018

^Thanks for that suggestion.

I actually know a local old guy who used to fight in the roving bare knuckle boxing tournaments back in the late fifties. Apparently he was undefeated, a claim which I verified from several sources. Amazing, since he was just a local taking on the guys that did it for a living. Crazy stuff.

I might look for someone who actually used gloves, but the advice is still good. Just because there aren't any boxing gyms doesn't means there aren't any boxers.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - TravelerKai - 02-22-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 07:15 AM)Richard Turpin Wrote:

Even though I haven't always read complementary things about Aikido and I understand a lot of the objections (lack of 'aliveness', compliant uke's etc), I've always thought of it as a potential good fit for myself personally. I've also took note that the people I know in the Judo community who've also practiced Aikido rate the art highly despite the naysayers.

I did a little boxing sparring in my youth and a good few years of Judo until recently and I'm now of an age where getting punched in the face or tied up in knots by 18 year old meat-heads doesn't appeal as much as it used to in my own youth.
Judo is great, but I couldn't help noticing that literally every adult in my class was carrying an injury. It's also no coincidence that until I started Judo I'd never been to a doctor once in my life, but since taking it up I've been 3 times in as many years!

Nevertheless, the desire to learn self-defence continues and I know of at least two Aikido clubs close by that I could try.

I feel that both boxing and Judo are intended to fuck people up totally and that once you've thrown a punch or committed to throw someone onto their heads and put them through the floor the end result can often be overkill (the emphasis on 'kill'). Aikido may well fill a middle ground? Whereby you can render an attacker compliant without having to destroy them? Hence, it's use by law enforcement. I dunno, I've a feeling that I'll end up signing up and trying for myself, but I'd love to know the thoughts of the forum on Aikido.

Go to a class and try it out for week or so and see how you like it. Since you already know a couple styles you can get a fast vibe for what will work for you and what will not work.

Some people fight self defence wise - fast. Someone rushing out to ambush tackle you does not look all that fast to you. My brothers and some knuckleheads from college used to try an ambush me outside only to have their wrist or throat grabbed, or knee pushed in by my foot without me even looking at them. They think it is funny and a horseplay joke, but to me that is proof of my training being successful.

In pro sports, they talk alot about how for veterans, the game slows down alot for them and they don't have to think so much about their position and the play call. This is the same thing for martial arts.

If you are fast/intense I would not recommend Aikido. Silat, FMA, Systema, Hapkido, etc. would fit better.

Let me know if that makes sense or not.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - TravelerKai - 02-22-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 07:25 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:

So the older of my boys is getting to that age where he's getting a bit fightey. Fortunately he wants to learn proper form but despite my suggestions in other martial directions he's firmly enamoured with boxing. It's getting a bit crazy around the house. This is about as close an example as I can find.

I don't think he's going to pursue it competitively so I really want to focus on the facets of that particular sport that contribute to a capacity for self defence.

I'm keen to hear any suggestions about what sort of gear and routines are suitable for that kind of application. He initially wanted me to use sparring pads (the glove kind) but I'm hesitant to condition him to "hit for a win by points" if you know what I mean, particularly because this is an outlet for that genuine teenage aggression.

I'm wondering what would be better. To focus on working with a hanging bag, use a larger shield type sparring pad or go all out and buy one of those expensive boxing dummies.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

There is no self defense component. Learning and knowing how to box just means you know how to box. That's it. If he learns something else that is self defense related, he will just naturally add the proper punching he got from boxing along with the conditioning, etc.

You should not be doing focus mitt work with him if you do not know how to do mitt training and coaching. He can work the mitts with an instructor at a gym. Last thing you need is a black eye because he gave you a wallop on accident.

He nor yourself should be punching on a heavy bag without at least a little while of proper instruction at a gym under a coach. You are just going to break a finger or sprain your wrists badly. Boxing is easy as fuck to get started and learn initially, but you gotta let somebody teach you first. You won't learn off a video or from playing around with a heavy bag. You are just asking for injuries.

Take boxing lessons for at least a month or two before training on your own. Even then, you will need more than a year plus to get proficient with focus mitt work and training someone else on them.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Richard Turpin - 02-23-2018

Quote: (02-22-2018 10:32 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:

If you are fast/intense I would not recommend Aikido. Silat, FMA, Systema, Hapkido, etc. would fit better.

Let me know if that makes sense or not.

That makes perfect sense, thanks. I always found boxing and the stand-up aspect of Judo to be too fast for me. Even though, I can be explosive, I could never get the timing right in Judo throws. Lack of practice almost certainly, but possibly as much to do with my temperament and nature, as I was much better at Judo groundwork where I had time to at least take stock of my position and formulate and act out a plan accordingly. When I tried that in standup, I'd usually already been thrown!

I'll call in and give it a go, as I do love those wrist-locks! As you say, my experience in Judo should help my Bullshit-Detector to be nicely calibrated. I just don't want to waste my time learning something that may not be as practical as I'd like, and 'googling Aikido' is not a positive experience! That's why I appreciate the opinions of yourself, Dalaran1991 and others on the matter.

TravelerKai’s Martial Arts Datasheet - Leonard D Neubache - 02-23-2018

Hmm. Hopefully I can find someone local. The nearest city is over a 3 hour round trip away and it's small enough that I'm not even sure I have options there.