Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Printable Version

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Dusty - 02-20-2018

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - SeaFM - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 04:31 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Quote: (02-20-2018 03:07 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

That's true. Even Michael Moore's documentary of Columbine noted that Canada has gun ownership at the same levels, but much lower amok-runs.

While normally I will agree with you. I am confident in the fact that gun ownership in Canada is significantly lower than in the US.

Michael Moore can say whatever he wants but it is absolutely incorrect. The numbers I find tend to suggest that Canada has about 30% of the guns that the US has. However, the usage of Canadian guns is vastly different than the US. Most of those guns are going to be owned by hunters not people who carry them as protection. I suspect hunters are also more likely to own multiple guns than someone who has one for protection.

My guess is the true number of gun ownership in Canada is about 15% that of the US.

When you have a population of people buying for protection vs. a population buying to hunt animals a couple weeks a year you are going to have a different type of gun culture.

You also absolutely can't walk the streets with a gun in Canada. From a globe and mail article...

"There are just two categories of individuals who are allowed an authorization to carry: those who require one because of their occupations and those who need one for the "protection of life." They need to get an authorization from the chief firearms officer for their province or territory. The average number of authorizations to carry issued was 8,169 per year between 2005-2011" - Thats for a population of over 36 million. Keep in mind that 8,169 people per year would include police officers, security, etc.

I can't comment on the truth of this. In my entire life here I've only ever seen 2 guns. They were both antique shotguns on the wall at a friends house.

There are no "Stand your ground" laws either, and I'm pretty sure even owning a handgun is illegal.

I once saw a product demo where an ex police officer fired a shotgun at a pane of bulletproof glass. It was quite some time ago, and I don't remember every detail anymore but I watched him get the gun in a case from his trunk, ammo in a separate case, etc. it was all very by the book. He definitely needed paperwork to be able to do what he was there to do.

You just can't walk into a store and buy a gun and a ton of ammo.

If you ever did kill an intruder, you'd be the one going to jail.

One thing that occurred to me after this most recent massacre was this question.

Don't kids fight at school anymore? I grew up in the 70's / 80's and fighting at school was commonplace. Up until my late teens we were always fighting.

These kids these days don't get to let their aggression out and settle scores the old fashioned way. It just bottles up inside until they snap and do something terrible like this or any other mass shooting.

Maybe a punch in the face here and there would stop these things from escalating so dramatically.

This generation of kids has grown up basically consequence free. When I was in high school and I did something wrong, fists would fly, then it was over.

The bubble wrapped kids in the nerfed world with the helicopter parents aren't turning out so well.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - MMX2010 - 02-20-2018

Quote:TigerMandingo Wrote:

Then why aren't there more shootings at shopping malls?

Who is more likely to go on a shooting spree: a fully mentally mature adult male or an only partially mature male?

Once you admit it's the second, then it becomes obvious that mass shootings are more likely to happen at schools, because schools have the highest concentration of partially mature males, compared to literally any other building.

(Jokes about the Senate, the House, the DMV, or any other government building notwithstanding.)

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - MMX2010 - 02-20-2018

Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/jskielb3/status/965798937578885120][/url]

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - TravelerKai - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 11:09 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

Quote: (02-20-2018 05:53 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

I think some of you have it backwards.

The reason there are so many shootings at schools rather than other public places is because schools are gun free zones.

Then why aren't there more shootings at shopping malls? Those are gun free zones, too. This has nothing to do with that, that's why. This is about mental health, fucked-up families, kids being medicated, and American obsession with guns. I also agree with Quintus that it should be MUCH easier to have someone committed to a mental hospital.

No Hypno is correct. QC is also correct.

Gun free zones are targets of opportunity.

Does a fox or a coyote prefer chasing a chicken that is inside a fenced coop or outside of it?

Foxes, while clever and intelligent, are not evil. They are just opportunistic. For him, the fence is not an afternoon of sudoku with a Starbucks coffee, like it would be for you. It's a waste of his energy and time.

Evil people that commit crimes certainly are not always stupid either. They know a soft target when they see one, that's part of what makes them evil.

No bad guy, mental diseased or not, wants to meet resistance. They are not looking for gunfights. They are looking for victims.

If they wanted a gunfight they would attack a police station. They are not looking for a challenge. They are looking to inflict the most harm without getting harmed themselves. The very small few Islamic terrorist that attack police stations and barracks are a major exception to the rule.

Why is it when gun robbers are shot at, almost every time, they freak out and run away shooting one armed and hysterically? Because these cowards were out for soft targets and the minute someone put up a fight against them, they fold like the cowards they are. How likely would it have been that the shooter would have taken cover to return more fire had he been shot back at? Very unlikely. The fact they arrested him shows that he was not high on the idea of fighting someone who could kill him.

Also, you can carry a handgun into a mall with a permit in several states. I can in mine, and I always do. Not too long ago, I think a knife attacker got shot in a Minnesota ( or Milwaukee?) mall by a guy concealed carrier. If you want to shoot up a mall in Texas, you better be prepared to check your corners well. Someone might be crouched down waiting for you the gunman to run by their cover position and they will light your ass up. That is if the police do not get to you first.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - kaotic - 02-20-2018

Exactly, we need to reiterate this:

If we have psych evals - WHO is doing those psych evals ?

Psych for the most part, means YEARS of schooling - which means years of being in a culturally Marxist doctrine.

Odds are that shrink sees ANYTHING unstable or a single issue in the past and would deny gun rights.

Or worse is it a board review ?


Also, this means a national registry of people with mental issues with guns - I know we already have a gun database or people who have purchased guns and have done back ground checks. Would this new psych registry violate any medical laws?


I don't think we need dudes everywhere walking around with AR's slung on their shoulders.

However I don't think any new gun control legislation will pass or help.


I DO however think that we need really look at people on psychotropic drugs - time and time again we see shooters who are on meds.

However someone very intelligent I respect (even if we differ on some opinions) pointed it's more than mental health, it's about societal decay and our lack of respect of life:

Quote:Quote:

EDIT: I'm removing this because it might be easy to find. PM me if you want the quote

While I don't agree with a few of his points, he definitely brings up many facts and many good ones.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Hypno - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 11:09 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

Quote: (02-20-2018 05:53 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

I think some of you have it backwards.

The reason there are so many shootings at schools rather than other public places is because schools are gun free zones.

Then why aren't there more shootings at shopping malls?

If you wanted to shoot people up, would you choose a school where no one is armed, or a mall, church, or rail car where maybe 1 out of 20 are armed. I can think of two specific examples - the Long Island Rail Road and a church shooting - where the targets shot back and took out the shooter. That is why these happen at schools.

They also happen at schools in good neighborhoods, because the schools in bad neighborhoods already have metal detectors.

Shopping malls have real security. They may not have metal detectors, but unlike schools they will be sued if there is a shooting, and lose business if there is any hint of violence.

Yes its a mental health problem. They shoudln't allow big pharma to push these drugs that create dangerous side effects. All of these shooters have been on anti-drepresseants.

Changing the gun laws will not work. There already is a law against shooting people which this guy ignored. There is also a law against adults going into a high school, which he ignored. Why do people think that passing yet another law will solve the problem?

Obama and Hillary were big proponents of gun reform, but they never once asked their security detail to disarm.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Simeon_Strangelight - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 11:09 AM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

Quote: (02-20-2018 05:53 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

I think some of you have it backwards.

The reason there are so many shootings at schools rather than other public places is because schools are gun free zones.

Then why aren't there more shootings at shopping malls? Those are gun free zones, too. This has nothing to do with that, that's why. This is about mental health, fucked-up families, kids being medicated, and American obsession with guns. I also agree with Quintus that it should be MUCH easier to have someone committed to a mental hospital.

Indeed - to a teenager your school is almost your entire world. That is why 16yo boys and girls commit suicide because of mobbing, because they imagine school to be so all-encompassing. That is why they direct all their anger towards the school.

The only other comparative nature would be workers shooting up their workplace and that is also known. Going postal came from there when postal workers came back with guns to take revenge.

I think that students would attempt to shoot up their schools even if there were armed guards, but they would be incapacitated much more quickly with far less victims.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - MMX2010 - 02-20-2018

Quote:[url=https://twitter.com/PPDNews/status/965704090348130304][/url]

From the article, "Overall, 56.7% say placing “armed security, police and trained personnel on campus during school hours” will “do the most to reduce the number of school shootings.” That compares to just 43.3% who think “stricter gun control laws” are needed."

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - MMX2010 - 02-20-2018

The Conservative Treehouse (who goes by TheLastRefuge2 on Twitter) posted an interesting article regarding these shootings.


I personally disagree with his thesis that certain Obama/Jesse Jackson/Eric Holder social policies led to the shooting. But I do think his facts, especially regarding Treyvon Martin, are sufficiently interesting. I give this article my Highest Possible Recommendation.


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Summary:

FACT #1 - Obama and other liberals prevented the police from enforcing the law on "petty crimes", and forced the police to refer all disciplinary actions to school officials.

FACT #2 - This led to increasingly serious crimes. The police then forged the records of their investigations to cover up for these more serious crimes, such as Treyvon Martin's jewelry theft being re-written as "found items".

CONCLUSION (major thesis) - This lawlessness led to the shooting.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - SlickyBoy - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 11:50 AM)SeaFM Wrote:  

There are no "Stand your ground" laws either, and I'm pretty sure even owning a handgun is illegal.

No, it is not totally illegal but there are federal and provincial restrictions. Believe it or not it's even possible to own an AR15 up there, albeit with a lot of red tape.

Self defense is another matter entirely. Forget stand your ground, when Roosh got a beer thrown at him in Montreal, he went to the cops to file an assault charge. The cop said he could do that but he may face a counter charge of assault from the bitch who threw the beer at him because he responded by throwing his beer back at her. So essentially there is no right to self defense, at least not in Montreal. I suppose they expect you to sit there getting pummeled and wait for the cops to show up? Weird civil law in Quebec - who knows.


On another note, I saw this bit about how "boys are broken." Of course, it can never be the single moms who can't get their shit together or the foster parents who took the kid in for cash. It's the boys and boys only, and misogyny is the culprit.

I don't understand what good all of the NSA/FBI/who knows who else surveillance is doing if all it results in is making convictions easier. They should have enough information to see shit like this coming, especially given the information handed to the FBI on a silver fucking platter about how nuts this kid was.

The next shooter is out there, has his guns (legal or otherwise), and is known to his immediate community and perhaps even local law enforcement. Chances are he's either involved in the muslim extremist world or is a bona fide nut job who needs to be locked up and treated. This isn't rocket science, but I get the feeling the left isn't actually interested in solving this problem in spite of their usual post-incident rhetoric about never again.

Finally - did anyone else notice the part where one of the kids said they were in class and heard the shooting break out?

Quote:Quote:

On the first floor, Rebecca Bogart was in Holocaust class when bullets shattered a window into the room and struck at least one classmate. Rebecca, 17, said she hid under her teacher’s desk.

Not history class mind you, Holocaust class. An entire class dedicated to the Holocaust-?! Judging by the grammar used on the instagram chats between the shooter and the ex-boyfriend, they could have made much better use of their time with some remedial English classes. But at least they know about guilt.

So while the best and brightest of the world study science, math, music and chess, American students dedicate who knows how many hours in a semester to studying one murderous event among many similar events throughout history. I guess they skipped right past the Great Leap Forward, The Holodomor and the Cambodian Killing Fields. The great-grand children of those who stopped the Holocaust get to sit in a class and be lectured like the great-grand children of the perpetrators. Have to wonder what the Muslim students must be thinking.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Hypno - 02-20-2018

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - lavidaloca - 02-20-2018

Armed security is great and all but here's the problem with that. Unless they are gonna be in every classroom then these lunatics will just shoot up their class room instead of wandering the halls.

In the case of this incident it may have prevented it because if their was an appropriate perimeter in place and the armed guards had specific instructions to fire if this individual was seen entering the premises.

I don't think armed security will change very much either. I also don't think armed teachers is the right solution either. Because then the gunman will just surprise the teacher first.

While these guys are obviously very deranged mentally, they all seem to carry out planned and methodical attacks. I'm sure they will be able to work around ways to carry out these attacks just the same.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - kaotic - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 01:16 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Armed security is great and all but here's the problem with that. Unless they are gonna be in every classroom then these lunatics will just shoot up their class room instead of wandering the halls.

In the case of this incident it may have prevented it because if their was an appropriate perimeter in place and the armed guards had specific instructions to fire if this individual was seen entering the premises.

I don't think armed security will change very much either. I also don't think armed teachers is the right solution either. Because then the gunman will just surprise the teacher first.

While these guys are obviously very deranged mentally, they all seem to carry out planned and methodical attacks. I'm sure they will be able to work around ways to carry out these attacks just the same.

Not sure if you know this, but most schools out here are gated like a prison for two reason.

So noone can enter the campus that shouldn't be there and that noone can leave the campus that shouldn't.

Schools get partially funded depending on their attendance ratings so you know damn well they'll try everything to keep their kids on campus.

At major schools there are certain entrances people can come in and and out, they do control the flow of people.

There is roving security, walking or on golf carts.

Most schools have an armed police officer on campus.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Days of Broken Arrows - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 01:11 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

Quote: (02-20-2018 11:50 AM)SeaFM Wrote:  

There are no "Stand your ground" laws either, and I'm pretty sure even owning a handgun is illegal.

No, it is not totally illegal but there are federal and provincial restrictions. Believe it or not it's even possible to own an AR15 up there, albeit with a lot of red tape.

Self defense is another matter entirely. Forget stand your ground, when Roosh got a beer thrown at him in Montreal, he went to the cops to file an assault charge. The cop said he could do that but he may face a counter charge of assault from the bitch who threw the beer at him because he responded by throwing his beer back at her. So essentially there is no right to self defense, at least not in Montreal. I suppose they expect you to sit there getting pummeled and wait for the cops to show up? Weird civil law in Quebec - who knows.


On another note, I saw this bit about how "boys are broken." Of course, it can never be the single moms who can't get their shit together or the foster parents who took the kid in for cash. It's the boys and boys only, and misogyny is the culprit.

I don't understand what good all of the NSA/FBI/who knows who else surveillance is doing if all it results in is making convictions easier. They should have enough information to see shit like this coming, especially given the information handed to the FBI on a silver fucking platter about how nuts this kid was.

The next shooter is out there, has his guns (legal or otherwise), and is known to his immediate community and perhaps even local law enforcement. Chances are he's either involved in the muslim extremist world or is a bona fide nut job who needs to be locked up and treated. This isn't rocket science, but I get the feeling the left isn't actually interested in solving this problem in spite of their usual post-incident rhetoric about never again.

Finally - did anyone else notice the part where one of the kids said they were in class and heard the shooting break out?

Quote:Quote:

On the first floor, Rebecca Bogart was in Holocaust class when bullets shattered a window into the room and struck at least one classmate. Rebecca, 17, said she hid under her teacher’s desk.

Not history class mind you, Holocaust class. An [b]entire class dedicated to the Holocaust-?! Judging by the grammar used on the instagram chats between the shooter and the ex-boyfriend, they could have made much better use of their time with some remedial English classes. But at least they know about guilt.[/b]

So while the best and brightest of the world study science, math, music and chess, American students dedicate who knows how many hours in a semester to studying one murderous event among many similar events throughout history. I guess they skipped right past the Great Leap Forward, The Holodomor and the Cambodian Killing Fields. The great-grand children of those who stopped the Holocaust get to sit in a class and be lectured like the great-grand children of the perpetrators. Have to wonder what the Muslim students must be thinking.

I noticed this too reading one of the kids who got on Reddit and did an AMA. When he said he was in "Holocaust History" class, I remember thinking "What??"

Teenagers don't have perspective. When you teach the Holocaust as a major portion of history (which it wasn't), they assume that's history per se, and the whole world is, was, and always will be a Holocaust.

Don't be surprised when they turn nihilistic, despondent, or suicidal. The Holocaust should be taught as part of 20th Century History, not as its own thing.

And I agree with you about the awful grammar of these kids, although I still contend the shooter has FAS, and was therefore slightly retarded.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Aurini - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 04:31 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Quote: (02-20-2018 03:07 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

That's true. Even Michael Moore's documentary of Columbine noted that Canada has gun ownership at the same levels, but much lower amok-runs.

While normally I will agree with you. I am confident in the fact that gun ownership in Canada is significantly lower than in the US.

Michael Moore can say whatever he wants but it is absolutely incorrect. The numbers I find tend to suggest that Canada has about 30% of the guns that the US has. However, the usage of Canadian guns is vastly different than the US. Most of those guns are going to be owned by hunters not people who carry them as protection. I suspect hunters are also more likely to own multiple guns than someone who has one for protection.

My guess is the true number of gun ownership in Canada is about 15% that of the US.

It's about 40%. Link.

Other things to consider: Canada has a strong latent culture of cooperation (mistaken for politeness), we're far more spread out (inner cities are the expensive neighbourhoods here) and we don't have a history of tribal conflict, like the US does.

That said, we have PLENTY of shootings. It was actually Michael Moore's documentary that changed my mind on gun control; of course I was like every other Canuck when I watched it, but the evidence of that film pointed towards lax gun laws being the wiser move.

I wonder how much gun crime would evaporate if we legalized duelling?

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Remington - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 01:20 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Quote: (02-20-2018 01:16 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Armed security is great and all but here's the problem with that. Unless they are gonna be in every classroom then these lunatics will just shoot up their class room instead of wandering the halls.

In the case of this incident it may have prevented it because if their was an appropriate perimeter in place and the armed guards had specific instructions to fire if this individual was seen entering the premises.

I don't think armed security will change very much either. I also don't think armed teachers is the right solution either. Because then the gunman will just surprise the teacher first.

While these guys are obviously very deranged mentally, they all seem to carry out planned and methodical attacks. I'm sure they will be able to work around ways to carry out these attacks just the same.

Not sure if you know this, but most schools out here are gated like a prison for two reason.

So noone can enter the campus that shouldn't be there and that noone can leave the campus that shouldn't.

Schools get partially funded depending on their attendance ratings so you know damn well they'll try everything to keep their kids on campus.

At major schools there are certain entrances people can come in and and out, they do control the flow of people.

There is roving security, walking or on golf carts.

Most schools have an armed police officer on campus.

To piggy back off this comment, when I was in high school, during school hours, there was only one way in, and one way out of the school. We had to be buzzed in because that door was also locked.

There are also security cameras all over the inside and outside of the school. So, if there is only one or two security/police officers in the building, they will be able to quickly find the entrance the gunman is attempting to breach.

As TK mentioned, if security was to return fire, the gunman will most likely try to get away from the scene quickly.

The goal for mass shooters is to kill as many people possible in the shortest amount of time. If a gunman meets resistance, those soft targets are no longer worth it.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Aurini - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 01:11 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

Quote: (02-20-2018 11:50 AM)SeaFM Wrote:  

There are no "Stand your ground" laws either, and I'm pretty sure even owning a handgun is illegal.

No, it is not totally illegal but there are federal and provincial restrictions. Believe it or not it's even possible to own an AR15 up there, albeit with a lot of red tape.

A 2-day course, and $80 for the license; then buy all the AR-15s you want, though I'd recommend the SKS. It's a superior rifle in my opinion.

If you want to own a handgun, you need to get your enhanced, and I believe they keep a record of who owns what handguns - so personally I'll stick with rifles, swords, knives, and crossbows.

Regarding the psychological assessments: ignoring the nefarious purposes, it's important to include the "Diagnose to Subsidize" phenomenon. Psychiatry has been on a decades-long mission to move from philosopher-speculation to reputable medical status. With the current health care systems, this requires an "official" diagnosis from their Big Book of Diagnoses (DSM V).

What this boils down to, is that if you go and see a therapist because your dad just died and you're upset (as one of my exes did) the therapist will have to find some sort of label to put on you so that your insurance company will pay for it. So now you have an official diagnosis of mental illness - even though the therapist would never describe you as a threat to yourself or others, just somebody who was going through a rough patch.

The core problem with psychology is that it's built upon an unacknowledged foundation of theology. There is no mental illness without a definition of mental wellness. But psychologists like to pretend otherwise...

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - kosko - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 11:49 AM)Dusty Wrote:  

USA is still far too high for per-capita homicides. Everything ranking ahead after USA is a shithole. For developed nations, USA ranks dead last in the regards.

USA needs to fix its societal situation before the gun issue ever gets addressed. It is the decay in America, not the guns that are the issues. The guns just exacerbate mortality rates.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Dragan - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 01:16 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Armed security is great and all but here's the problem with that. Unless they are gonna be in every classroom then these lunatics will just shoot up their class room instead of wandering the halls. Armed security is great and that's why all sorts of institutions use it: airports, courthouses, etc. Armed security would be located at the enterence to the school, which is where the traffic flow is. If teachers lock their doors during class times, which is done at many schools, the shooter will only be able to get into one room max. Metal detectors should be used too, a lot of hood schools use these, because dudes will bring guns to school. With metal detectors, no gun issue.

In the case of this incident it may have prevented it because if their was an appropriate perimeter in place and the armed guards had specific instructions to fire if this individual was seen entering the premises. New school design focuses more on restricting access. This was an issue in the past, but now that they're designing to restrict access, you have safer schools. Strangers or non-authorized people don't need to be on school campuses anyway.

I don't think armed security will change very much either. I also don't think armed teachers is the right solution either. Because then the gunman will just surprise the teacher first. Armed teachers will be a deterrent because the gunman has no ideas what teachers are armed. Armed teachers conceal carry. So he can't pick who to attack. Also you have armed teachers, but also a security guard and school cop. He's the one visible person with a gun.

While these guys are obviously very deranged mentally, they all seem to carry out planned and methodical attacks. I'm sure they will be able to work around ways to carry out these attacks just the same. I don't give these shooters any credit they're loosers who don't have fully functional brains. Their idiot relatives and friends failed to do something when they were obviously headed down the wrong path. And yes, if you're killing animals, that's a clear warning sign. Not normal! These shooters get lucky because you have incompetent administrators and poorly secured schools. Once again, no mention in this shooting of the security arrangements at the school, and how extensive they were. These shootings become mass shootings because adequate security measures aren't taken, and because the shooter is freely able to move around the school picking targets.

No school shootings in texas because the teachers are armed.

America has a violent issue because we're a very diverse society, and as a result have high levels of distrust, polarization, crime, drug use, segregated living arrangements. We have much more in common with Vibrant South Africa, Brazil, Yugoslavia, etc than we do with norway or sweden. Of course, there are parts of the US that generally resemble these advanced homogeneous western countries, the midwest, suburban america, small towns, etc. No diversity, same religion, high trust, low crime.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - BlueMark - 02-20-2018

Kosko is right. The argument you often hear is that the USA has so many more firearm homicides per capital than other developed countries. I ran the numbers once and found that the USA also has more non-firearm homicides per capita. That drives home the point that the issue is that we live in a society that engenders violence.

I don't have the data on hand, but if anyone is interested, feel free to crunch the numbers and post them here. Otherwise I'll post them when I have the time.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Days of Broken Arrows - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 02:04 PM)BlueMark Wrote:  

Kosko is right. The argument you often hear is that the USA has so many more firearm homicides per capital than other developed countries. I ran the numbers once and found that the USA also has more non-firearm homicides per capita. That drives home the point that the issue is that we live in a society that engenders violence.

I don't have the data on hand, but if anyone is interested, feel free to crunch the numbers and post them here. Otherwise I'll post them when I have the time.

There are a lot of different theories on this. Conservatives like Rush Limbaugh have said if you remove the number of inner city murders from the overall murder rate, America isn't all that violent. But I remember reading otherwise in newspapers. Both sources have their agendas, though.

I'd like to see statistics too, but wonder if the numbers that come out of the think tanks in DC aren't themselves "massaged."

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Simeon_Strangelight - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 12:56 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

The Conservative Treehouse (who goes by TheLastRefuge2 on Twitter) posted an interesting article regarding these shootings.


I personally disagree with his thesis that certain Obama/Jesse Jackson/Eric Holder social policies led to the shooting. But I do think his facts, especially regarding Treyvon Martin, are sufficiently interesting. I give this article my Highest Possible Recommendation.

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Summary:

FACT #1 - Obama and other liberals prevented the police from enforcing the law on "petty crimes", and forced the police to refer all disciplinary actions to school officials.

FACT #2 - This led to increasingly serious crimes. The police then forged the records of their investigations to cover up for these more serious crimes, such as Treyvon Martin's jewelry theft being re-written as "found items".

CONCLUSION (major thesis) - This lawlessness led to the shooting.

Actually it is possible that deferral of problematic students to the cops might have saved lives this time. Of course they enacted such idiotic policies, because certain races cropped up more than others and they certainly claimed that it was racism, but in this case they would have intercepted a white-ish bloke.

And that bloke would have been certainly been far more scrutinized by the police or even FBI if the school reported anything - also students added their input.

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - TravelerKai - 02-20-2018

Quote: (02-20-2018 02:20 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Quote: (02-20-2018 02:04 PM)BlueMark Wrote:  

Kosko is right. The argument you often hear is that the USA has so many more firearm homicides per capital than other developed countries. I ran the numbers once and found that the USA also has more non-firearm homicides per capita. That drives home the point that the issue is that we live in a society that engenders violence.

I don't have the data on hand, but if anyone is interested, feel free to crunch the numbers and post them here. Otherwise I'll post them when I have the time.

There are a lot of different theories on this. Conservatives like Rush Limbaugh have said if you remove the number of inner city murders from the overall murder rate, America isn't all that violent. But I remember reading otherwise in newspapers. Both sources have their agendas, though.

I'd like to see statistics too, but wonder if the numbers that come out of the think tanks in DC aren't themselves "massaged."

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Douglas High School shooting in Florida - Hypno - 02-20-2018

Government is not the solution; its the problem.

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