US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Printable Version

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Adonis - 10-01-2016

So fucking pissed. Its been a sad week for the US Navy. In a literal fly by night policy shift, the service has completely done away with its rating system which denotes used to denote the combination of a person's rank and job specialty. I can tell you that no one outside of the DC policy circle had any inclination that this was coming. The outcry spans all ranks and periods of service, with active duty Sailors posting scathing remarks on the Chief of Naval Operations' and Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy's Facebook pages.

A quick primer for those that are wondering WTF Im on about. Your rating is your job, complete with a cool little symbol to represent it. Some of these (BM, GM, QM) were around when the US Navy was created on 13 October 1775. Overnight, POOF they are gone.

Quote:Quote:

United States Navy ratings were general enlisted occupations used by the U.S. Navy from the 18th century until 2016 that consisted of specific skills and abilities. Each naval rating has its own specialty badge, which is worn on the left sleeve of the uniform by each enlisted person in that particular field. Working uniforms, such as camouflage Battle Dress Uniforms, utilities, coveralls, and Naval Working Uniform, bear generic rate designators that exclude the rating symbol.

Navy Times

Quote:Quote:

The Navy deep-sixed all of its 91 enlisted ratings titles Thursday, marking the beginning of an overhaul of the rigid career structure that has existed since the Continental Navy in a radical shift sure to reverberate through the fleet and the veterans community beyond.

Sailors will no longer be identified by their job title, say, Fire Controlman 1st Class Joe Sailor, effective immediately. Instead, that would be Petty Officer 1st Class Joe Sailor.

Officials say the controversial move will improve sailors' lives and ease their transition into the civilian workforce by broadening their skills in this tectonic shift in Navy’s personnel system to redraw the traditional lines between enlisted job specialties — a massive shake-up that is only beginning. Within the next three to four years, earlier if possible, the service plans to allow sailors to retrain in related skills, expanding their worth to the Navy while reaping broader assignment opportunities as well as increased advancement changes and greater access to special pays and bonuses that come with the most critical skills.

“We’re going to immediately do away with rating titles and address each other by just our rank as the other services do,” said Chief of Naval Personnel Vice Adm. Robert Burke in a Sept. 19 interview. “We recognize that’s going to be a large cultural change, it’s not going to happen overnight, but the direction is to start exercising that now.”

Sailors past and present have longstanding and deep love of the titles that have defined their Navy lives. All of these now belong to the history books.

Enlisted reforms would end Navy's advancement exams
To highlight a few: Gunner’s Mate stood up the watch in 1775 in the Contintental Navy. Boatswain’s Mate dropped anchor in 1775, too. Hospital Corpsman rushed to duty in 1948 after being called four other names over the previous 150 years. Operations Specialists started tracking in 1972 an upgrade from the name Radarman before it.

Through Navy history, as many as 700 titles have come and gone. Over 400 were created and eliminating during and immediately after World War II. But this move will disband these ratings entirely and reorganize sailors into Navy Occupational Specialties, or NOS, that will define the peer group they compete with for promotion. Under this new system, for example, Gunner's mates will be identified as B320 and quartermasters will be B450.

The move also strips the titles airman, fireman, constructionman and hospitalman, titles that will be also replaced by job codes. The title seaman is the sole non-rated rating remaining, for E-3 and below.

The moves leaves the enlisted force's foremost symbols as the petty officer crow and the chief petty officer anchors. It remains unclear what will happen to the ratings badges that feature iconic rating insignia that officials are considering changing. An engineman’s gear. An information systems technician’s sparks. These images were beloved by many and inspired countless tattoos.

The huge shift was approved by Navy Secretary Ray Mabus and Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson and had been advocated by the now retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Mike Stevens, who urged it as way to promote more cross-training and boost sailors’ post-service employment opportunity. It began by a directive from Mabus to find gender-neutral rating titles that stripped them of the word "man," in an effort to be more inclusive to women sailors who make up an increasing size of the force.

In June, the Marine Corps — also under the Mabus edict — announced they’d take “man” out of 19 occupational titles, as well. The Navy's newly released answer is to take a much more difficult and controversial approach by scrapping their existing system and starting over.

Sailors's aren't losing everything in their titles, however: the warfare qualifications that demonstrate mastery of their operational commands will remain.

“Sailors take great pride in earning those coveted warfare designations and they like to place those behind their ratings because they want people to know they’ve earned them," said Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (IDW/SW) Steve Giordano said in the Sept. 19 interview. “That won’t go away — they will still have those as part of their titles.”

Burke says the Navy's new occupational specialties will be regrouped under broader career fields, an improved version of the 13 communities the service ratings these specialties had been grouped into. Where a NOS falls in those career fields will be driven by the individual skills within that field and not traditional lines, he said. Officials say these changes will allow sailors to choose from a wider variety of jobs and duty stations and ultimately provide multiple avenues for advancement. And when they get out — their skills and experience will more directly translate into a civilian job.

Still up in the air is what to do about the Navy's specialty marks — those rating-specific designs on dress uniforms, belt buckles — even pins on a sailor's ball cap.

For now, there is no change, Burke said.

“It’s definitely our plan to cross that bridge, but it will be one of the last thing we’ll do for a couple of reasons. One depends on how we draw the career fields lines and something may fall out, based on that, I just don’t know, yet."

USNI version

So what we have here is a drive to be gender neutral. What could simply have been a renaming of rates turned into the single largest change to the service's identity EVER. And of course the kiss ass Mike Stevens wanted to double down on this bullshit and eviscerate tradition, pride, and esprit de corps in favor of identity politics. All just to say "I did that". What they really did was become "that guy" and a pariah for the next century of Sailors.

Quote:Quote:

This post has been updated with additional information from Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson.

After more than 200 years, the Navy is making a fundamental change in how it will address its enlisted sailors, according to a notification on the new policy obtained by USNI News.

Starting today, the service will shelve the rating system it adopted from the U.K. Royal Navy, stop referring to sailors by their job titles and adopt a job classification in line with the Army, Marine Corps and the Air Force.

For example, under the new rules The Hunt for Red October character Sonar Technician Second Class Ronald “Jonesy” Jones – ST2 Jones for short – would be Petty Officer Second Class Jones or Petty Officer Jones. Machinist’s Mate First Class Jake Holman – MM1 Holman– from the novel and film The Sand Pebbles would be Petty Officer First Class Holman or Petty Officer Holman.

The change comes as Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus has pushed the Department of the Navy to create gender-neutral titles for positions like rifleman and motorman.

Mabus’ request – examining how changing ratings like Yeoman, Legalman and Damage Controlman could better reflect the diversity of the service – was the genesis of the new policy, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson said during a Thursday all-hands call explaining the changes.

The initial question was, “do [the ratings] capture that inclusivity with the respect to diversity,” Richardson said.

During the review, the team — led by recently retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Mike Steven — “saw an opportunity that went beyond the initial tasking,” Richardson said.

Now with the change, a sailor’s skills and primary job will be cataloged in their personnel record via a Navy Occupational Specialty code similar to the Military Occupational Specialty, used by the Army and Marines, and the Air Force Specialty Codes system. (Petty Officer Jones’ NOS code would be C230 while Petty Officer Holman’s code would be B130).

For lower pay grades E-1 to E-3, ‘”there will no longer be a distinction between ‘Airman, Fireman and Seaman’,” reads a statement from the service.
“They will all be, ‘Seaman’.”

Senior enlisted ranks E-7 to E-9 will still be referred to as Chief, Senior Chief and Master Chief respectively.

The Navy said the change would allow more flexibility in the enlisted promotion and job assignments.

“Sailors may hold more than one NOS, which will give them a broader range of professional experience and expertise opportunities,” reads a statement from the service provided to USNI News.

The codes “will be grouped under career fields that will enable flexibility to move between occupational specialties within the fields and will be tied to training and qualifications.”

A spokesman for the Chief of Navy Personnel told USNI News the move to shed the rating system was part of a review that began in June.

The goal was to “develop a new approach to enlisted ratings that would provide greater detailing flexibility, training and credentialing opportunities, and ultimately translate Navy occupations more clearly to the American public,” Cmdr. Jason Schofield, a spokesman for the Chief of Naval Personnel, told USNI News.
“We believe that modernizing all rating titles for sailors and establishing a new classification system is the first step of a multi-phased approach to do just that. This transformation will occur in phases over a multi-year period.”

The Navy’s enlisted classification system was arguably the most dense and difficult to understand of the U.S. services and was rooted in the traditions of the Royal Navy of the 18th century. In both navies it was rare for a sailor to change ships, and knowing what job a sailor performed aboard was the most important identifier.

However, the ratings system became more complicated as the pace of technology quickened, creating churn in the jobs in the service.

Ratings would be created, merge and become obsolete sometimes in the span of only a few years.

In addition to clarifying jobs for the wider public, the service said it would also pair with other moves to ease the transition to into civilian life.

“Our intent in making this change is to transform our personnel business processes so that we maximize career flexibility, while arming our sailors with superior training and widely recognized credentials that will convey to the civilian workforce,” reads the statement.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - RexImperator - 10-01-2016

It's always saddening to see the military taken over with this cultural Marxist shit.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - weambulance - 10-01-2016

What the fuck.

Besides the obvious bullshit of this change, won't this make it harder for people to do their jobs, in the sense that now it's not clear who they're talking to? I thought the Navy system was a great idea; I would've preferred something like it in the Army, though I don't know how that would've worked exactly. Some assclown E-7 comes out of nowhere, I kind of want to know if I'm talking to an infantry NCO or a fucking 88M (truck driver).

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Cobra - 10-01-2016

My initial reaction below but more to come. I am a US Navy veteran and quite apalled.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - RoastBeefCurtains4Me - 10-01-2016

I've seen lots of cases where a bureaucrat has initiated and pushed through a shitty, stupid, destructive project, just so she could have it on her resume. I've seen it particularly in parks, where places I've loved have had all the trees cut down and the park path walled with fences. I have no idea what's wrong with the various committees it takes to approve these projects, but somehow the originating bureaucrats manage to sell these horrible ideas and get outside funding, and once there's outside funding, nobody wants to stop it.

In the case of the Navy, I'm sure lots of people thought this was a horrible idea, but somehow the bureaucratic structure ensured that the Idea moved forward, and the opposition had no say in the matter.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Leonard D Neubache - 10-01-2016

There are no words to describe how ignorant and petty this decision is.

When you're fucking with over 200 years of history there ought to be a decade long "cooling off period" on decisions like this, just to make sure it's not some momentary flash-in-the-pan shitty-leadership-shitty-administration issue.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Adonis - 10-01-2016

Quote: (10-01-2016 07:42 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

What the fuck.

Besides the obvious bullshit of this change, won't this make it harder for people to do their jobs, in the sense that now it's not clear who they're talking to? I thought the Navy system was a great idea; I would've preferred something like it in the Army, though I don't know how that would've worked exactly. Some assclown E-7 comes out of nowhere, I kind of want to know if I'm talking to an infantry NCO or a fucking 88M (truck driver).

If I recall, the Army had something similar but on a much smaller scale when they did away with the branch insignia. I don't think it will make it harder for people to do their jobs, the Navy is a professional service and they will suck it up like they always do. In all actuality I think this will be followed on official correspondence and ignored in day to day life.

Quote: (10-01-2016 07:47 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

I've seen lots of cases where a bureaucrat has initiated and pushed through a shitty, stupid, destructive project, just so she could have it on her resume. I've seen it particularly in parks, where places I've loved have had all the trees cut down and the park path walled with fences. I have no idea what's wrong with the various committees it takes to approve these projects, but somehow the originating bureaucrats manage to sell these horrible ideas and get outside funding, and once there's outside funding, nobody wants to stop it.

In the case of the Navy, I'm sure lots of people thought this was a horrible idea, but somehow the bureaucratic structure ensured that the Idea moved forward, and the opposition had no say in the matter.

Thats just the point that pisses me and everyone else off the most, NO ONE knew anything about this. We came into work on Thursday morning and had our new identities waiting for us in our inboxes. Just like that. The number of people who knew the scope of this before it was sent out to ALLNAV had to have numbered in the single digits for that to occur without some "scuttlebutt" or deckplate rumor.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - philosophical_recovery - 10-01-2016

What utter euro-style faggotry.

It's going to take quite a bit of time to untangle all of the cultural marxist bullshit, maybe a total reformation of government through whatever means, before this bottoms out.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - robreke - 10-01-2016

Quote: (10-01-2016 07:19 PM)Adonis Wrote:  

So fucking pissed. Its been a sad week for the US Navy. In a literal fly by night policy shift, the service has completely done away with its rating system which denotes used to denote the combination of a person's rank and job specialty. I can tell you that no one outside of the DC policy circle had any inclination that this was coming. The outcry spans all ranks and periods of service, with active duty Sailors posting scathing remarks on the Chief of Naval Operations' and Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy's Facebook pages.

A quick primer for those that are wondering WTF Im on about. Your rating is your job, complete with a cool little symbol to represent it. Some of these (BM, GM, QM) were around when the US Navy was created on 13 October 1775. Overnight, POOF they are gone.

Quote:Quote:

United States Navy ratings were general enlisted occupations used by the U.S. Navy from the 18th century until 2016 that consisted of specific skills and abilities. Each naval rating has its own specialty badge, which is worn on the left sleeve of the uniform by each enlisted person in that particular field. Working uniforms, such as camouflage Battle Dress Uniforms, utilities, coveralls, and Naval Working Uniform, bear generic rate designators that exclude the rating symbol.

Navy Times

Quote:Quote:

The Navy deep-sixed all of its 91 enlisted ratings titles Thursday, marking the beginning of an overhaul of the rigid career structure that has existed since the Continental Navy in a radical shift sure to reverberate through the fleet and the veterans community beyond.

Sailors will no longer be identified by their job title, say, Fire Controlman 1st Class Joe Sailor, effective immediately. Instead, that would be Petty Officer 1st Class Joe Sailor.

Officials say the controversial move will improve sailors' lives and ease their transition into the civilian workforce by broadening their skills in this tectonic shift in Navy’s personnel system to redraw the traditional lines between enlisted job specialties — a massive shake-up that is only beginning. Within the next three to four years, earlier if possible, the service plans to allow sailors to retrain in related skills, expanding their worth to the Navy while reaping broader assignment opportunities as well as increased advancement changes and greater access to special pays and bonuses that come with the most critical skills.

“We’re going to immediately do away with rating titles and address each other by just our rank as the other services do,” said Chief of Naval Personnel Vice Adm. Robert Burke in a Sept. 19 interview. “We recognize that’s going to be a large cultural change, it’s not going to happen overnight, but the direction is to start exercising that now.”

Sailors past and present have longstanding and deep love of the titles that have defined their Navy lives. All of these now belong to the history books.

Enlisted reforms would end Navy's advancement exams
To highlight a few: Gunner’s Mate stood up the watch in 1775 in the Contintental Navy. Boatswain’s Mate dropped anchor in 1775, too. Hospital Corpsman rushed to duty in 1948 after being called four other names over the previous 150 years. Operations Specialists started tracking in 1972 an upgrade from the name Radarman before it.

Through Navy history, as many as 700 titles have come and gone. Over 400 were created and eliminating during and immediately after World War II. But this move will disband these ratings entirely and reorganize sailors into Navy Occupational Specialties, or NOS, that will define the peer group they compete with for promotion. Under this new system, for example, Gunner's mates will be identified as B320 and quartermasters will be B450.

The move also strips the titles airman, fireman, constructionman and hospitalman, titles that will be also replaced by job codes. The title seaman is the sole non-rated rating remaining, for E-3 and below.

The moves leaves the enlisted force's foremost symbols as the petty officer crow and the chief petty officer anchors. It remains unclear what will happen to the ratings badges that feature iconic rating insignia that officials are considering changing. An engineman’s gear. An information systems technician’s sparks. These images were beloved by many and inspired countless tattoos.

The huge shift was approved by Navy Secretary Ray Mabus and Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson and had been advocated by the now retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Mike Stevens, who urged it as way to promote more cross-training and boost sailors’ post-service employment opportunity. It began by a directive from Mabus to find gender-neutral rating titles that stripped them of the word "man," in an effort to be more inclusive to women sailors who make up an increasing size of the force.

In June, the Marine Corps — also under the Mabus edict — announced they’d take “man” out of 19 occupational titles, as well. The Navy's newly released answer is to take a much more difficult and controversial approach by scrapping their existing system and starting over.

Sailors's aren't losing everything in their titles, however: the warfare qualifications that demonstrate mastery of their operational commands will remain.

“Sailors take great pride in earning those coveted warfare designations and they like to place those behind their ratings because they want people to know they’ve earned them," said Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (IDW/SW) Steve Giordano said in the Sept. 19 interview. “That won’t go away — they will still have those as part of their titles.”

Burke says the Navy's new occupational specialties will be regrouped under broader career fields, an improved version of the 13 communities the service ratings these specialties had been grouped into. Where a NOS falls in those career fields will be driven by the individual skills within that field and not traditional lines, he said. Officials say these changes will allow sailors to choose from a wider variety of jobs and duty stations and ultimately provide multiple avenues for advancement. And when they get out — their skills and experience will more directly translate into a civilian job.

Still up in the air is what to do about the Navy's specialty marks — those rating-specific designs on dress uniforms, belt buckles — even pins on a sailor's ball cap.

For now, there is no change, Burke said.

“It’s definitely our plan to cross that bridge, but it will be one of the last thing we’ll do for a couple of reasons. One depends on how we draw the career fields lines and something may fall out, based on that, I just don’t know, yet."

USNI version

So what we have here is a drive to be gender neutral. What could simply have been a renaming of rates turned into the single largest change to the service's identity EVER. And of course the kiss ass Mike Stevens wanted to double down on this bullshit and eviscerate tradition, pride, and esprit de corps in favor of identity politics. All just to say "I did that". What they really did was become "that guy" and a pariah for the next century of Sailors.

Quote:Quote:

This post has been updated with additional information from Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson.

After more than 200 years, the Navy is making a fundamental change in how it will address its enlisted sailors, according to a notification on the new policy obtained by USNI News.

Starting today, the service will shelve the rating system it adopted from the U.K. Royal Navy, stop referring to sailors by their job titles and adopt a job classification in line with the Army, Marine Corps and the Air Force.

For example, under the new rules The Hunt for Red October character Sonar Technician Second Class Ronald “Jonesy” Jones – ST2 Jones for short – would be Petty Officer Second Class Jones or Petty Officer Jones. Machinist’s Mate First Class Jake Holman – MM1 Holman– from the novel and film The Sand Pebbles would be Petty Officer First Class Holman or Petty Officer Holman.

The change comes as Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus has pushed the Department of the Navy to create gender-neutral titles for positions like rifleman and motorman.

Mabus’ request – examining how changing ratings like Yeoman, Legalman and Damage Controlman could better reflect the diversity of the service – was the genesis of the new policy, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson said during a Thursday all-hands call explaining the changes.

The initial question was, “do [the ratings] capture that inclusivity with the respect to diversity,” Richardson said.

During the review, the team — led by recently retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Mike Steven — “saw an opportunity that went beyond the initial tasking,” Richardson said.

Now with the change, a sailor’s skills and primary job will be cataloged in their personnel record via a Navy Occupational Specialty code similar to the Military Occupational Specialty, used by the Army and Marines, and the Air Force Specialty Codes system. (Petty Officer Jones’ NOS code would be C230 while Petty Officer Holman’s code would be B130).

For lower pay grades E-1 to E-3, ‘”there will no longer be a distinction between ‘Airman, Fireman and Seaman’,” reads a statement from the service.
“They will all be, ‘Seaman’.”

Senior enlisted ranks E-7 to E-9 will still be referred to as Chief, Senior Chief and Master Chief respectively.

The Navy said the change would allow more flexibility in the enlisted promotion and job assignments.

“Sailors may hold more than one NOS, which will give them a broader range of professional experience and expertise opportunities,” reads a statement from the service provided to USNI News.

The codes “will be grouped under career fields that will enable flexibility to move between occupational specialties within the fields and will be tied to training and qualifications.”

A spokesman for the Chief of Navy Personnel told USNI News the move to shed the rating system was part of a review that began in June.

The goal was to “develop a new approach to enlisted ratings that would provide greater detailing flexibility, training and credentialing opportunities, and ultimately translate Navy occupations more clearly to the American public,” Cmdr. Jason Schofield, a spokesman for the Chief of Naval Personnel, told USNI News.
“We believe that modernizing all rating titles for sailors and establishing a new classification system is the first step of a multi-phased approach to do just that. This transformation will occur in phases over a multi-year period.”

The Navy’s enlisted classification system was arguably the most dense and difficult to understand of the U.S. services and was rooted in the traditions of the Royal Navy of the 18th century. In both navies it was rare for a sailor to change ships, and knowing what job a sailor performed aboard was the most important identifier.

However, the ratings system became more complicated as the pace of technology quickened, creating churn in the jobs in the service.

Ratings would be created, merge and become obsolete sometimes in the span of only a few years.

In addition to clarifying jobs for the wider public, the service said it would also pair with other moves to ease the transition to into civilian life.

“Our intent in making this change is to transform our personnel business processes so that we maximize career flexibility, while arming our sailors with superior training and widely recognized credentials that will convey to the civilian workforce,” reads the statement.

Look for this kind of insanity to continue ramping up more and more as we approach the end of Obama's tenure.

He only has about 3 1/2 months to do as much damage as possible to the institutions of this country and military as he can possibly do. And do it he will.

He's the most leftist, marxist President we've ever had and he doesn't care about repercussions. He wants to transform the US as much as possible within the short time he has left in office; to fuck it up, weaken it and make it vulnerable for a globalist takeover.

Now that his days are numbered, he will ramp up the damage as much as he possibly can to get as much as passed and altered that are in line with his and the globalists' agenda.

Brace yourselves. Within the remainder of his term, we're going to see things and policy changes implemented that are so outrageous that none of us can even fathom them at this point.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Kona - 10-01-2016

This will get turned right back around if Trump wins.

I had only been in a while, but saw huge changes in the Navy from Clinton to Bush.

This Mabus guy is a fuck up. He named a ship after Cesar Chavez who flat out said he hated the navy. He named another after Harvey Milk the gay. He has plans to name more after civil rights types.

The intimidation factor goes right out the door when you give a ship such a pussy name.

Aloha!

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - godfather dust - 10-01-2016

Pandering to the most suicidal people on earth in the military is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Friendly fire strikes me as something to be avoided.

Maybe use the neon haired zes and zirs (or "it's" as people into reality call them) as anti-Arab suicide bombs?

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - SamuelBRoberts - 10-02-2016

This is the same navy that blundered into enemy territory 'cause they couldn't use a compass, then got captured and humiliated like a bunch of faggots, right?

We're gonna lose the next war so goddamn hard it's not even funny.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Kona - 10-02-2016

Quote: (10-02-2016 01:47 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

This is the same navy that blundered into enemy territory 'cause they couldn't use a compass, then got captured and humiliated like a bunch of faggots, right?

Which event are you speaking of?

Aloha!

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - SamuelBRoberts - 10-02-2016

The Iranian incident from earlier this year. This one.

I remembered it as a problem with a compass but I may be slightly off.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Adonis - 10-02-2016

Even Hitler is pissed about losing his rate.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Easy_C - 10-02-2016

Quote: (10-01-2016 07:42 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

What the fuck.

Besides the obvious bullshit of this change, won't this make it harder for people to do their jobs, in the sense that now it's not clear who they're talking to? I thought the Navy system was a great idea; I would've preferred something like it in the Army, though I don't know how that would've worked exactly. Some assclown E-7 comes out of nowhere, I kind of want to know if I'm talking to an infantry NCO or a fucking 88M (truck driver).

And this idiots want to start a war with Russia using a military that's run this way?

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Dr. Howard - 10-02-2016

I can't wait to see that the replacement names are:

Riflexir?

DiversityChief?

Rainbowmaster?

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Bluto - 10-02-2016

Well, what is next calling sailors Sea People?

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Dr. Howard - 10-02-2016

I can't wait till Deepdiver posts on this thread.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Cobra - 10-02-2016

Quote: (10-01-2016 07:46 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

My initial reaction below but more to come. I am a US Navy veteran and quite apalled.

I don't write long posts any more and hence my hope is that I am not too incoherent here.

I wrote this earlier and wish to clarify. I was in the Navy for 4 years active duty and another 4 in the active reserves within a "Seabee" unit. For an Indian immigrant like myself that at that time was only in the country for 6 years or so, it was a new lease in life. I'm not an all-American dude that had a normal middle class life and just had social problems to deal with. I came from a poor immigrant family, with no cultural assimilation skills or guidance and had to build myself up from the very bottom while resisting every single thing that made me who I was to that point. I literally had close to zero confidence, petrified to talk to pretty girls my age, wore shitty clothes, couldn't run a few laps on the track without loss of breath and couldn't fight worth a shit. The Navy turned around each and every single one of these elements around full circle to as positive as could be. Today, I'm very successful in almost all aspects of life, but had I not joined the Navy, I probably would not have had it. So while this post may be long winded, I dedicate it to those that created my success.

My pride in the Navy was like every other person's in boot camp. We were taught to love the Navy. Ratings were just one source of that pride. A boatswain's mate (BM) was known to be the rough and tumble guy that didn't give a shit. A Gunner's Mate (GM) was known to be a bad ass with weapons. A Ship's Serviceman (SH) was known to be a social mofo. A Disbursing Clerk (DK), my own rating, was known to be the "money man" aka player. People wore their rating on their face. It's just the Navy I remember. Another thing worth mentioning was the advancement of minorities. Up to the point I joined, the only way I had seen black people portrayed was on TV and a few thugs in my shitty high school. In boot camp, this was thrown out the window. I mean, we were all literally the same BUT each had a chance to prove himself; no fucking advantage (except maybe physical which could be overcome) anywhere to be had no matter where you came from. It was a place where I finally felt like I had the same chance as others. Now, this meant a lot to me because up to that point, in the backwards ass town I grew up in, I was told I wasn't as good as any of the white guys that had the sweet cars, pretty girlfriends and went on great vacations. Here, I finally have a chance to build myself up. So did every black person that came in there; nothing holding them back except themselves, just like me. Without elaborating, fast forward 20 years. One of these fine gentlemen is a "Commander," many others are "Chief Petty Officers" or above, and others are in officer ranks. I clearly remember how some of these guys came from even the worst areas of South side Chicago. For example, if you run into that Commander, you will realize he still retains some of that accent he retained from maybe the hood in Chicago, but the guy leads a unit full of trained operators that can do damage. Remember I said Boatswain's Mates were the ruff and tumble; I remember a lot of these guys were tough as nails black dudes from some crazy walks of life and earned not only the respect of that rating but fit right in with their direct and tough approach on life. We also had a whole lot of Samoans as Gunner's mates. These fuckers just made great Gunner's Mates. I felt like they were the warriors with weapons if you can picture that. Oh and the Phillipinos; great technicians, especially Electrical and Engineers. They were smart as fuck. If America was like this, with respect to cultures, without being so damn politically correct, I would be okay.

I have a bone to pick with this "gender neutral" bullshit too. There were women in some of these ratings that did great, including some bad ass black women that were Boatswain's Mates. However, there were also some real slutty ones, and quite a few, that got pregnant just to avoid a deployment. This shit was prevalent every month. They added little to no value to the lower ranks. Every time one of them left, a man had to pick up their slack. This meant, more deck work, more lifting boxes, more swabbing decks. All, because of a pussy pass. Now Mabus wants to blur the lines even more and empower these bitches further by shitting on tradition.

Now, about the only positive I see from this is that there may be some flexibility to move across specialties if people are not "rated" a certain way outright. That's fine but one could still argue that you can do that without eliminating the pride sailors have developed in the rating system. Another words, let people keep their ratings but if you want to give them more training in other areas, so be it, but don't fuck with their rating. This has already been done before anyways. I mean, the "warfare" qualification has already been instituted for a similar purpose. I earned my surface warfare pin. It meant that I knew a little about how every aspect of the ship worked; meaning if I were to be assigned to the Engine Room, I know where shit was and how it worked or that if I was assigned to the bridge, I literally knew how to drive the ship. All this being said, I was still known as the clean cut money guy and wore that check with a key on it as a source of pride.

This Mabus led change makes almost no sense except to "neuter-alize" the military into being a vanilla culture-less institution where pride and tradition don't matter. As I mentioned above, given our cultural diversity in the US, the Navy and maybe even the Military in general is one institution that has created an inclusive yet respectful environment for Americans from all walks of life including myself and then helped them succeed. There is tremendous value in that from the stand point that the civilian world could even use this as an example. I mean, in the Navy, either you were good at your job or not. Either you were cool, or not. Either you could get pussy, or not. It was truly an equal opportunity institution where you couldn't bitch about your race without getting your ass handed to you. It gave me great confidence here that as long as I work hard and stay connected to people, I will get very far.

Look, starting at the same place and having the same opportunities, is not the same as this liberal concept of "everyone is the same." No, you don't get treated the same if you had a chance to prove yourself and you fucked up. You go to the back of the line and start again. OR you can choose a shittier job. Instead of clearly understanding this, our leaders and politicians are feeding us tremendous bull shit regarding how we should treat people better just because of the way they look or where they come from, even though they haven't earned it. This Mabus "change" is exactly a pre-cursor to the next shittier version of this plan. Ratings were about earning your way in; and you were let in if you fit in culturally. It was a symbol of success into a community. They are trying to break apart each and every community by destroying the symbols administratively and turning it into a number.

Certainly a sad day for my Navy. I want to tie these cocks to an anchor and drop it in the middle of the meditterranean sea and sing "Anchors aweigh" as they hit the depth.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Leonard D Neubache - 10-03-2016

Just to keep the rage alive.

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Kona - 10-03-2016

^^ That's the Bonhomme Richard. I spent quite a bit of time on there. I say "there" because I guess you aren't allowed to refer to ships as "she" or "her" anymore.

That is an amazing ship. We took control of things after the 04 tsunami. It has like a 500 bed hospital and a full trauma center. I could tell all kinds of stories about things that I saw from and on there.

Theres a lot of white folks, and quite a few chubby people in that picture. Its probably the medical detachment. The Marines on there wouldn't wear pink. If that's correct, I say that's fine. Those people have hard jobs that they do extremely well. If they want to support tit cancer, let them.

Aloha!

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Tokyo Joe - 10-03-2016

Quote: (10-03-2016 01:01 AM)Kona Wrote:  

^^ That's the Bonhomme Richard.

Kona: Was the ship always named to sound like a gay nightclub, or did they change it as part of this "gender neutral"/homo push?

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - Kona - 10-03-2016

Quote: (10-03-2016 01:56 AM)Tokyo Joe Wrote:  

Quote: (10-03-2016 01:01 AM)Kona Wrote:  

^^ That's the Bonhomme Richard.

Kona: Was the ship always named to sound like a gay nightclub, or did they change it as part of this "gender neutral"/homo push?

There's been a ship name Bonhomme Richard in the US Navy since there has been a US Navy.

It has something to do with Jon Paul Jones. The sailor, not the guy from the monkees.

Now it sounds gay since they're gaying everything up. It used to be cool.

Edit: Davy Jones is the Monkee, but also a sailor. JP Jones, led zeppelin. Still no relation.

Aloha!

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US Navy erases over 240 years of tradition to be gender neutral - weambulance - 10-03-2016

It's a centuries old ship name. Not all military names have aged well.

2nd Regiment 1st Infantry Division = Ramrods, which I always thought sounded pretty gay... my team leader kicked me in the shin pretty hard when I made fun of his old unit. Not that the unit I spent most of my time in didn't have plenty of its own poorly-aged names and traditions.

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