M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Printable Version
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M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Vitriol - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 06:46 AM)torontokid Wrote:
One of my friends who's from MTL came down to Toronto. The guy looks like a broke motherfucker and is cheap as hell. He wears the same shitty shirt everyday and never shaves. Girls would never know that he actually makes around 15 k a month through online marketing. He likes to save up all his money. Yet he fucks lots of girls, from 18 year olds to 30 year olds. Its because he gives of the broke artist image and a lot of girls are attracted to that. He has great logistics but its student housing. This same guy would be slaughtered in an upscale lounge but that's not his kind of location. He'd probably look out of place in a suit.
So to sum it up, it all depends what kind of image you are congruent with. You can get boatloads of ass either way with logistics being the only factor dependent on money. Even then you can be cheap and still get pretty decent logistics in a lot of cities.
I think trying to be independently successful like that is the best way to go. Guys who are professionals in their 30s who have plenty of time to game girls and travel pretty much don't exist because of the opportunity cost of having to put in long hours and spend most of your life from post high school to mid or late 20s in school (if you go the "legit credential" route). If you try to do something on your own like start your own business you have the freedom of being able to set your own schedule and actually live on your down time because you don't have to answer to anyone else.
All things being equal, the guy who got to go out every other night hitting on girls during his 20s will probably have much better game and more notches than the guy who spent years in school and working his ass off instead of running game, with the hope that his success might eventually start landing pussy. The sheer amount of time and effort you have to spend in order to go the legit "stay in school for years on end then become a working professional with no free time route" is a bad return on investment if you're looking to get as much pussy as possible. How many guys do any of you know who have legit professional careers who can go out at least 4 nights a week to hit on girls or travel for several months out of the year? Professional jobs that offer that kind of flexibility pretty much don't exist. Especially if you want to go the fancy car, nice apartment, money to travel route - you're going to have to be working non-stop to pay for all that shit if you're doing it through legitimate means.
There's a reason why most guys who are regular clients of whores and escorts are businessmen and professionals. They have no time to get laid by ordinary means.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Saladin - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 08:56 AM)Vitriol Wrote:
Quote: (07-20-2011 06:46 AM)torontokid Wrote:
One of my friends who's from MTL came down to Toronto. The guy looks like a broke motherfucker and is cheap as hell. He wears the same shitty shirt everyday and never shaves. Girls would never know that he actually makes around 15 k a month through online marketing. He likes to save up all his money. Yet he fucks lots of girls, from 18 year olds to 30 year olds. Its because he gives of the broke artist image and a lot of girls are attracted to that. He has great logistics but its student housing. This same guy would be slaughtered in an upscale lounge but that's not his kind of location. He'd probably look out of place in a suit.
So to sum it up, it all depends what kind of image you are congruent with. You can get boatloads of ass either way with logistics being the only factor dependent on money. Even then you can be cheap and still get pretty decent logistics in a lot of cities.
I think trying to be independently successful like that is the best way to go. Guys who are professionals in their 30s who have plenty of time to game girls and travel pretty much don't exist because of the opportunity cost of having to put in long hours and spend most of your life from post high school to mid or late 20s in school (if you go the "legit credential" route). If you try to do something on your own like start your own business you have the freedom of being able to set your own schedule and actually live on your down time because you don't have to answer to anyone else.
All things being equal, the guy who got to go out every other night hitting on girls during his 20s will probably have much better game and more notches than the guy who spent years in school and working his ass off instead of running game, with the hope that his success might eventually start landing pussy. The sheer amount of time and effort you have to spend in order to go the legit "stay in school for years on end then become a working professional with no free time route" is a bad return on investment if you're looking to get as much pussy as possible. How many guys do any of you know who have legit professional careers who can go out at least 4 nights a week to hit on girls or travel for several months out of the year? Professional jobs that offer that kind of flexibility pretty much don't exist. Especially if you want to go the fancy car, nice apartment, money to travel route - you're going to have to be working non-stop to pay for all that shit if you're doing it through legitimate means.
There's a reason why most guys who are regular clients of whores and escorts are businessmen and professionals. They have no time to get laid by ordinary means.
Exactly, the opportunity cost of working in Corporate America in terms of pussy outweighs the benefits.
Thats why I like the idea of starting your own business. Sure, it may be very hard work for a few years but at least you don't have to work long hours at the job till you're 65. Heck, you could scale it so you have an optimum of money and time.
Lots of guys on the forum have made it happen, and they seem to have enough free time to enjoy life.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Excelsior - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 07:05 AM)torontokid Wrote:
If the 23 year old has stronger game then the 18 year old will probably fuck him while also being taken on nice vacations.
That doesn't answer my question. I said all things being equal.
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The problem with the second guy is his notch per lay is way higher. If he bought that Porsche out of a need to impress than its astronomically high.
Why make that assumption? Maybe he just likes fast cars.
There are men like that, you know. Some people actually think sports cars are cool and use that as a primary motivation to buy a particular one.
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He also probably took out a nice fat mortgage for that pad or his car.
And he can probably easily afford it. A banker in the mid-level of his career(early to mid 30's) can easily pull $250K+, double that if he's a hedge fund guy.
If you make $100k in a city like Atlanta, Charlotte or Chicago, your money will still travel very far. A sharp condo might only run you $200k or so, and used Caymans are pretty cheap.
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Guys who think flashy stuff will help them will buy stuff that impresses women and take a hit on their finances.
Or maybe they quite like living in their nice, central condo and maybe they enjoy driving their Porsche at the track on weekends(and every other day they can)?
You seem to operate under the assumption that men can't enjoy these things themselves. Perhaps you do not value them, but many men would.
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Or he could not give a shit about what other people think and simply save and cut down on anything flashy.
He bought a Porsche, so he must really care what everyone thinks.
Nevermind the fact that he might just really like the Porsche. That's impossible, isn't it?
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Third guy is 30 years old, and makes 100 K a year. He lives in a cheap but central bachelors pad at a Universities Student Housing. He saves a lot of money and doesn't buy anything unless he truly wants it or he needs it. His costs are low and he doesn't spend money on anything flashy other than a decent wardrobe with a couple of nice suits he got done cheap while traveling in Honk Kong. Whenever he makes a purchase he asks himself if it would really make him happy or is it just something to impress people. He doesn't have a car because insurance is expensive and public transport is great. This man travels a lot and is able to stay in good places since he saves up his money. He spends money on what he enjoys which is travel and good food.
Assuming Guy 2 in my scenario has relatively similar level of game, he'll likely outdo your guy.
You might outdo the standard trick/beta chump with a big cash flow, but if that other guy has some game he will have an edge.
Guy 2 can have everything you have, plus a nicer car, nicer pad, nicer clothes and a higher cash flow. He can also travel a lot and buy the food he wants.
He'll have slightly higher mortgage costs and car payments($1300 a month maybe for a nice condo in a city like Chicago, $5-600 for the car with a decent down payment).
How is Guy 3 any better off than him? Guy 2 is just him with the same game and more stuff.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Diablo - 07-20-2011
My Goodness...the men with the money will 80-90% of the time kick ass. I can't even believe this is an arguement.
![[Image: undecided.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/undecided.gif)
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Excelsior - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 06:46 AM)torontokid Wrote:
I would agree with you that a decent amount of cash is required for the basics(which are logistics and a great style). Maybe a car if you live in a place which requires it. These are all things that make your life easier as it increases access to women. But these things are the cherry on the top of cake of tight game.
Perhaps when you're 22.
They become quite a bit more important once you hit your thirties and beyond.
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However there's a huge difference between what I"m describing(which ensures better logistics) and what you are suggesting. You are painting a picture where these banker guys have a huge advantage over you in terms of getting pussy.
All things being equal, they do.
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Here's whats happening behind the scenes. These same girls will ensure that they don't put out for a long time until these rich guys wine and dine them. You have to be smooth like the G to ensure these girls don't view you as LTR material.
Beta Provider Game.
It isn't that difficult to run.
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However the guys you are describing are rich bankers and lawyers who stay put in NYC most of their year.
Not entirely true. The bankers are located primarily in NYC, but they're also in Connecticut, Chicago, Charlotte and LA.
Top lawyers are everywhere, as are engineers/IT types. This absolutely DOES NOT apply to NYC alone. I'm not even a fan of the place.
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The girls are chasing them because they are LTR material and their ticket to a nice life.
A fact that can very easily be twisted to a guy's advantage, leading to several "mini relationships"(G's new concept) with relatively little effort(they'll come to you).
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So to sum it up, it all depends what kind of image you are congruent with. You can get boatloads of ass either way with logistics being the only factor dependent on money. Even then you can be cheap and still get pretty decent logistics in a lot of cities.
A better pad won't hurt, especially with age. G already covered that.
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These are the rules I play by and will follow for the next 15-20 years. Maybe when I hit my 40s I'll have to change the rules but then again I might have kids around then.
To each their own.
I'd suggest you shift a little earlier, though.
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Also as G said, most players without cash burn out because cash is a human requirement.
And because women have lower tolerance for 35 year old men with nothing to show for themselves.
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Have cash and try to make a shitload of money but remember that it doesn't have much of an effect on the emotions you make women feel(aka attraction).
Money counts for women, and it can attract them.
You're deluding yourself if you don't think its a factor, especially with age.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Moma - 07-20-2011
I agree strongly with Athlone and now I have a new question to pose to you @Athlone.
I know quite a few FOB bruck pocket guys from the Caribbean who bang broads from the left to the right. These guys range from 23 to 40 something and don't leverage finances.
In fact, I think some women expect these guys to cheat (one caught her man who lived with her and she was sponsoring for papers in her own bed banging out one sketz). She didn't leave him, of course.
How does their high success factor in with your money theory?
Are they exceptions to the rule or is there some other factor at hand?
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - UrbanNerd - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 04:01 PM)Moma Wrote:
I agree strongly with Athlone and now I have a new question to pose to you.
I know quite a few FOB bruck pocket guys from the Caribbean who bang broads from the left to the right. These guys range from 23 to 40 something and don't leverage finances.
In fact, I think some women expect these guys to cheat (one caught her man who lived with her and she was sponsoring for papers in her own bed banging out one sketz).
How does their high success factor in with your money theory?
Are they exceptions to the rule or is there some other factor at hand?
Well, we are talking a much smaller body of land. When you add in the lack of wealth in some of those places, where are the chicks going to go?
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Moma - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 04:06 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:
Quote: (07-20-2011 04:01 PM)Moma Wrote:
I agree strongly with Athlone and now I have a new question to pose to you.
I know quite a few FOB bruck pocket guys from the Caribbean who bang broads from the left to the right. These guys range from 23 to 40 something and don't leverage finances.
In fact, I think some women expect these guys to cheat (one caught her man who lived with her and she was sponsoring for papers in her own bed banging out one sketz).
How does their high success factor in with your money theory?
Are they exceptions to the rule or is there some other factor at hand?
Well, we are talking a much smaller body of land. When you add in the lack of wealth in some of those places, where are the chicks going to go?
No, these guys live here (in Toronto, Canada aka Caribbean central) and they pipe a lot of lizards here.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Diablo - 07-20-2011
@Moma, I'll bet they ain't that attractive....
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Excelsior - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 04:01 PM)Moma Wrote:
I agree strongly with Athlone and now I have a new question to pose to you @Athlone.
I know quite a few FOB bruck pocket guys from the Caribbean who bang broads from the left to the right. These guys range from 23 to 40 something and don't leverage finances.
In fact, I think some women expect these guys to cheat (one caught her man who lived with her and she was sponsoring for papers in her own bed banging out one sketz). She didn't leave him, of course.
How does their high success factor in with your money theory?
Are they exceptions to the rule or is there some other factor at hand?
I think it is like I said earlier with regards to this not being a zero-sum game. I am positing that cash is an advantage, and that if a woman had a choice between two relatively equal guys with different bankrolls(better dress, pad, etc), the larger bankroll often wins.
In reality, however, women are not always faced with such a direct choice. They'll often bang what is available. They may be waiting for their Mr. Big/Denzel/Knight in shining armor in a custom suit to smooth talk them and sweep them away in a Maserati, but he's not always avaialble. In fact, such men are quite rare. If he's not around, they'll bang whoever is around, and sometimes the most attractive options(guys with game, ability to fuck, etc) aren't very wealthy. The girls take what they can get.
Just because women tend to prefer money does not mean that it is impossible to get laid without it. You're better with it than without it and its a very powerful tool to have, but you're not necessarily going to be celibate without it. again: its not zero sum.
That would explain how the FOB caribbeans you see get laid and how the starving artists torontokid mentioned manage to get laid as well. Women are all wired the same way, so if you have enough game you can get to them.
Again: All my theory states is that money is a powerful weapon in any guys arsenal, and can give a guy a big edge because women do care about it. I did not say that a) there are no other factors at play(game) and b) that without money you cannot get laid.
Combine cash with some game, however, and you probably have as close to a bulletproof formula as you can get. If you can get closer to being that Mr. Big that they dream about(with some game and smoothness to go with it), you'll be in a better position.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - UrbanNerd - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 04:09 PM)Moma Wrote:
Quote: (07-20-2011 04:06 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:
Quote: (07-20-2011 04:01 PM)Moma Wrote:
I agree strongly with Athlone and now I have a new question to pose to you.
I know quite a few FOB bruck pocket guys from the Caribbean who bang broads from the left to the right. These guys range from 23 to 40 something and don't leverage finances.
In fact, I think some women expect these guys to cheat (one caught her man who lived with her and she was sponsoring for papers in her own bed banging out one sketz).
How does their high success factor in with your money theory?
Are they exceptions to the rule or is there some other factor at hand?
Well, we are talking a much smaller body of land. When you add in the lack of wealth in some of those places, where are the chicks going to go?
No, these guys live here (in Toronto, Canada aka Caribbean central) and they pipe a lot of lizards here.
Toronto...heh heh, figures.
Well Toronto is a place where you can really meet some...how can I say this and be racially-politically correct?....naive white females....especially with the Caribbean (and to a lesser extent, African) men. Although, you will sometimes see a Caribbean dude in Toronto with a fine white woman, many times the dudes are with 6's, or chubby or those with already a brood of kids, so they are not really gaming on anything top-notch (in my opinion).
I don't know if you remember this club but I would go into "SweetWater" and shake my head to the matchups...but I went in there for the few black chicks because the brothas were ignoring them (no matter how fine).
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Moma - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 04:19 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:
I think it is like I said earlier with regards to this not being a zero-sum game. I am positing that cash is an advantage, and that if a woman had a choice between two relatively equal guys with different bankrolls(better dress, pad, etc), the larger bankroll often wins.
In reality, however, women are not always faced with such a direct choice. They'll often bang what is available. They may be waiting for their Mr. Big/Denzel/Knight in shining armor in a custom suit to smooth talk them and sweep them away in a Maserati, but he's not always avaialble. In fact, such men are quite rare. If he's not around, they'll bang whoever is around, and sometimes the most attractive options(guys with game, ability to fuck, etc) aren't very wealthy. The girls take what they can get.
Just because women tend to prefer money does not mean that it is impossible to get laid without it. You're better with it than without it and its a very powerful tool to have, but you're not necessarily going to be celibate without it. again: its not zero sum.
That would explain how the FOB caribbeans you see get laid and how the starving artists torontokid mentioned manage to get laid as well. Women are all wired the same way, so if you have enough game you can get to them.
Again: All my theory states is that money is a powerful weapon in any guys arsenal, and can give a guy a big edge because women do care about it. I did not say that a) there are no other factors at play(game) and b) that without money you cannot get laid.
Combine cash with some game, however, and you probably have as close to a bulletproof formula as you can get. If you can get closer to being that Mr. Big that they dream about(with some game and smoothness to go with it), you'll be in a better position.
Yea I agree, I came into a bit of temp cash recently and felt like flossing so when I did, I could feel the ownership as I had lizards drooling as I was immediately deemed DHV.
The lizards were like lapdogs fawning at my every beckoning.
I can see why men with power can't be bothered with even macking on a chick. They just run it like a business transaction..
The whole point of gaming a lizard is to build (establish) that DHV within a woman. Spitting game is the process of establishing (building) that DHV. If you possess something that already broadcasts DHV such as high social status i.e a blatant baller, athlete or other..then you don't have to game as much and merely need to maintain that allure.
I've gone to places where I was already pre-placed on a pedestal and I merely needed to ensure I didn't say some shyt to bring myself off the pedestal and lower my DHV.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Excelsior - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 04:30 PM)Moma Wrote:
I can see why men with power can't be bothered with even macking on a chick. They just run it like a business transaction.
The whole point of gaming a lizard is to build (establish) that DHV within a woman. Spitting game is the process of establishing (building) that DHV. If you possess something that already broadcasts DHV such as high social status i.e a blatant baller, athlete or other..then you don't have to game as much and merely need to maintain that allure.
I've gone to places where I was already pre-placed on a pedestal and I merely needed to ensure I didn't say some shyt to bring myself off the pedestal and lower my DHV.
Exactly. This is precisely what I've been trying to get across. Well said.
This mentality is also part of the fuel behind the theory of "Game for Good Looking Guys" promoted by the man formerly known as Assanova(RealMadeMen).
When you already have something women want(wealth, looks, exotic status, etc), the game shifts.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Excelsior - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 08:56 AM)Vitriol Wrote:
All things being equal, the guy who got to go out every other night hitting on girls during his 20s will probably have much better game and more notches than the guy who spent years in school and working his ass off instead of running game, with the hope that his success might eventually start landing pussy.
Not necessarily. The theory of diminishing returns can apply to game as well.
After a certain stage, an increased number of approaches may not offer any particular guy a corresponding boost in his game. Not every guy needs to go out every other night in order to become more attractive to women.
Some don't need to go out much at all. Nightclub/bar game isn't the only game out there.
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The sheer amount of time and effort you have to spend in order to go the legit "stay in school for years on end then become a working professional with no free time route" is a bad return on investment if you're looking to get as much pussy as possible.
Well, that depends on whether or not the guy in question is looking to get "as much pussy as possible" and considers that his prime motive, doesn't it?
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How many guys do any of you know who have legit professional careers who can go out at least 4 nights a week to hit on girls or travel for several months out of the year?
I know plenty of guys with legit professional careers who wouldn't want to go out four nights a week just to hit on girls.
I've said it before, and I will say it again: American men put far too high a price on pussy. It isn't worth half the time, excitement or effort that many immediately assign it.
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There's a reason why most guys who are regular clients of whores and escorts are businessmen and professionals. They have no time to get laid by ordinary means.
If your goal is to "get as much pussy as possible", then those guys would have the right idea seeing escorts, wouldn't they?
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - UrbanNerd - 07-20-2011
Quote: (07-20-2011 06:00 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:
I've said it before, and I will say it again: American men put far too high a price on pussy. It isn't worth half the time, excitement or effort that many immediately assign it.
As an American, I hate agreeing with this statement but it is the damn truth. There should be NO DAMN REASON why females who could not run up a flight of stairs without getting tired with beer bellies should be able to have shopping sprees bankrolled by some dude (any race/color).
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - pitt - 07-21-2011
Sometimes i wonder if having millions of dollars and spend all your 20s and 30s after money will be really worth it. Put it this way, imagine that some of us on here plan to live in south america or caribbean for the rest of our lives, wont 60k per year be just ok and give us that great lifestyle? In those countries, if you want to impress women, all you need is be driving a nice car, you dont really need that much for the nice car, the dressing, you can always run to the states for cheap clothes every now and then, your luxury car will give you the image that you have a nice lifestyle, so when you reach your late 40´s, this under 25 chicks will be on your case and wanting to fuck you just because you drive that nice luxury car.
I really need to figure out how much i need, i think if i hit 500k before 35, should be enough just to travel around the world and never have to worry about working again.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Moma - 07-21-2011
To add to things however, Athlone, one should work on game because if you just work on the acquisition of money and think that will take care of everything, you will get women..from a trick standpoint which is not an angle you want to get women from.
I think the priority of game is actually placed higher than money because it's a mindset whereas money can come and go. Game cannot just come and go, as it is a behaviour.
Buying punani instead of understanding the mindset of a woman and leveraging the possession of money to put yourself into ideal situations to get money is a dangerous move.
The art of game (once mastered) will actually help you to get money because many a great man has fallen from not understanding women and there are a lot of simps in positions of power out there so essentially the knowledge of game will put you in positions to acquire adequate cash.
So as a young man, it is CRUCIAL for you to get out in the field and continue to approach women as opposed to only hyper analysing them. To quote Mixx's New Year's post of approaching 3 women a day, that is a superb idea and one that should be adhered to.
Yea, the women will shut you down and wound your ego. We have to soldier on. Men are not supposed to really be overly sensitive on those things.
A No and a 'Fcuk off' just rules out a surly lizard and brings you closer to a compliant one.
Approach, approach, approach.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Excelsior - 07-21-2011
Quote: (07-21-2011 02:00 PM)Moma Wrote:
To add to things however, Athlone, one should work on game because if you just work on the acquisition of money and think that will take care of everything, you will get women..from a trick standpoint which is not an angle you want to get women from.
I realize the limits of money when it comes to women. I've stated them about a dozen times in this thread, despite my continuously promoting the value of wealth.
I didn't need to run around cold approaching half a dozen random women a day while subsequently heading out 3-4 nights a week in order to learn that women still cheat on/cuckold/divorce needy rich men who display crushing betatude and that one should avoid becoming a simp.
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I think the priority of game is actually placed higher than money because it's a mindset whereas money can come and go. Game cannot just come and go, as it is a behaviour.
Wealth is far more valuable than pussy. Your average American women are far flakier and less reliable than your assets. You have more control over your own wealth and financial wellbeing than you do over any given American woman.
The quality of your life and your ability to enjoy it is also linked far more closely to your wealth than to women.
Money/career success can give you any multitude of benefits: better food, better lodging, freedom to travel (even top attorneys, to use a prominent professional example, can travel, btw-not all firms have facetime requirements/80 hour average weeks), and indulge in your self interests (MMA, auto racing, biking, whatever). It can also get you more female company (that is quite easily bought, and I'm not just talking about escorts) and security(no need to worry about bills or retirement).
Your average American women, on the other hand, can give you sex. That's it. They offer nothing else(aside from children, if you want them) that cannot easily be found independent of them. In most cases, they are a net-drain on your finances and impede your ability to enjoy all of the benefits of wealth I listed above.
When guys start figuring this out and begin to quit overpricing the pussy(and the pursuit of the pussy), you'll start to see improved attitudes and thinner bitch shields from women, who at that point will need to start showing that they're worth it (read: slim down, show less entitlement, be better partners, etc) and the issues we spend so much time bitching about here will diminish.
As long as they continue to place the pursuit of poon on a pedestal above their own livelihoods/wealth (which, as I've shown, can offer far greater tangible benefits than any single girl), we'll have issues.
Women have power, and they know it. That power is derived from male willingness to put access to their vaginas above everything else. They know they can be bitchy, rude, fat or entitled because plenty of decent guys will always be ready to chase them around and feed them with attention every night(and day) even if it is difficult/costly for them. Beyond that, even more men will be willing to put a ring on it.
Only men can solve these problems. Women have no incentive to change things.
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Buying punani instead of understanding the mindset of a woman and leveraging the possession of money to put yourself into ideal situations to get money is a dangerous move.
Good thing I already understand the mindset of women, then. I suggest all young men do the same, of course.
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The art of game (once mastered) will actually help you to get money because many a great man has fallen from not understanding women and there are a lot of simps in positions of power out there so essentially the knowledge of game will put you in positions to acquire adequate cash.
One does not need to follow an intensive cold approach regimen to avoid becoming a simp.
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So as a young man, it is CRUCIAL for you to get out in the field and continue to approach women as opposed to only hyper analysing them. To quote Mixx's New Year's post of approaching 3 women a day, that is a superb idea and one that should be adhered to.
I do not believe in the value of the cold approach (issue explained in other threads and posts), nor do I need to in order to find contentment.
One size does not fit all.
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Yea, the women will shut you down and wound your ego. We have to soldier on. Men are not supposed to really be overly sensitive on those things.
Been there, done that. Rejection is not new to me.
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Approach, approach, approach.
To each their own.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Saladin - 07-21-2011
Nobody's saying you have to push aside your pursuit of wealth. Cold approach will help with that since you'll develop confidence and not a give a fuck about what other people think about you. Any entrepeuner will have hate coming onto him and friends and family will constantly doubt them. Its the same with cold approach. However lets set aside the personality benefits of cold approach.
How are you actually going to choose girls? Social circles have their limits and you may get unlucky and get into one with ugly girls. Cold Approach gives you the power to choose.
How do you think guys get laid while traveling? Cold approach.
How do guys get laid or make a new social circle of their own design? Cold Approach.
Its very rare that a guy will just fall into a great social circle with tons of hot girls. You have no control if you are not willing to approach. You have no ability to choose and screen girls of your choosing other than from a small pool in your social circle. Social Circle game only works when you are very high status or if you are in college. High status only hits when you are in your 30s.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Moma - 07-21-2011
Athlone, you keep on quoting American women, American women as if the world revolves around American women. You live in America so what are you going to do? Wank until you move to another country where the women have the qualities that you admire?
Many of us here are logging on from countries where there are no American women (yet quite similar qualities are being exhibited). According to some, Sweden is even worse for hyper feminism than America. So if you don't bother to learn game because you want to save your ego (which I suspect is why you don't want to suffer the 'indignity' of being shunned), what happens when you meet a non American women who starts to run the same shyt on you? How will you deal with it? Stuff 100 <insert currency> bills/notes in her mouth when she runs her yap?
By understanding and applying game, you will be able to head off her b.s and still get her to do what you want.
You are a young male with balls full of semen in the prime of your life. Will you wait until you need steady prescriptions of Viagra or Ciallis to sow your oats?
Here's a newsflash: I have lived in other countries and women run similar bullshit to what North American women run.
Like it or not, unless you are not into women, you will have to learn HOW to deal with women. It costs nothing to learn game (save but the price of admission to a few clubs and maybe some dates) and you will need it anyway when your pockets are stacked because women will be running all sorts of game to lighten your load. If you don't know game, they will run it on you.
It's one thing to read and write about all these concepts and delude oneself that we don't need women but until you can apply them seamlessly as easily as you breathe, you WILL BE vulnerable.
Game is not just a man thing, it's a human thing and if you don't know how to play, you will get dunked on or sacked on EVERY play.
You talk about one not needed to go out and being in the field to not avoid being a simp. You plan on having sex, right? Unless you go out and you know what the market is like from a participatory perspective, how will you know when a woman is not running some sly game on you?
Unless you have ties to Charles Xavier, I can't see how you can see these things by just sitting and waiting for the big job to kick in.
How will you know the different ways she can run game on you without going out there and experiencing? Do you know how to recognise the different types of gold diggers out there? Do you know that they have different methods of approach? How will you distinguish from a gold digger as opposed to a genuinely nice woman? Can you recognise an emotional vampire?
There's a limitation to how far theory can take you WITHOUT practical. I know your pain. I used to go out and experience total bullshyt from women and it used to drive me insane but the need to bury my fatty in a lizard kept me coming out again and again. With knowledge of game, I can now identify reasons for certain behaviour and come to a point where I could actually predict certain behaviour and actions before they occur. This is all on a non-playboy budget.
As a man to a man, I am telling you, you HAVE TO go out in the field.
Even if you are into the 'I want to get married, I'm not a playa/PUA etc, marriage involves game as well, not only in selecting the RIGHT partner but keeping her in line.
I know this because I have family members who are married and they share certain things women do to test how much of a man their husband is.
You can get money overnight (win the lotto, or get that insurance money etc). You can't get game overnight.
And if you have money with no game, you are just a sucker/simp/mark in the cross-hairs of a wily lizard waiting to run your pockets.
If you have game with no money, you can come up on paper. I know some cats with game that actually use their women to get up on paper.
If you like having sex with women WITHOUT paying for it directly, then you HAVE to learn game...PERIOD.
I am curious but if you don't plan on going out in the field, how do you plan on getting punni or are you more the relationship type of cat?
Thanks.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Excelsior - 07-21-2011
I really don't want to have to get into this long(and off-topic) debate, but if people insist...
Quote: (07-21-2011 03:30 PM)torontokid Wrote:
Nobody's saying you have to push aside your pursuit of wealth.
Yes you are. You're not going to reliably be able to approach half a dozen women a day and spend 3-5 nights a week out at bars/clubs and not take a hit academically/financially and slow your career progression somewhat.
You either find balance, or compromise on one side or the other. Going to the school I do taught me that lesson the hard way. If I want to maintain the standards I have set for myself, I must compromise in other areas.
I do not plan(nor can I afford) to lower those standards, nor would I garner a justifiable Return on my Investment for doing so.
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Cold approach will help with that since you'll develop confidence and not a give a fuck about what other people think about you.
Don't need cold approach for that.
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How are you actually going to choose girls? Social circles have their limits and you may get unlucky and get into one with ugly girls. Cold Approach gives you the power to choose.
1. The benefits of social circles are not limited solely to the girls that are in them.
2. Learn to read IOIs. Girls do not need to approach you directly to show clear interest. "Warm" approaches exist as well.
3. Read Assanova/CrimeandFederalism more closely to understand the type of game I tend to favor. It is largely fundamentally incongruent with your proposal.
And that's ok.
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How do guys get laid or make a new social circle of their own design? Cold Approach.
I don't plan on designing any social circles.
Cold approaching is also not the only way to get laid (I haven't even mentioned the dismal success rate).
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Its very rare that a guy will just fall into a great social circle with tons of hot girls.
You don't have to.
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You have no control if you are not willing to approach.
The cold approach is not the only form of approach out there.
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You have no ability to choose and screen girls of your choosing other than from a small pool in your social circle.
Integration within a good social circle can give you broader access to girls outside of it as well, depending on your environment.
Some social circles are also large enough that "small pools" are not a problem.
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Social Circle game only works when you are very high status or if you are in college. High status only hits when you are in your 30s.
1. I'm in college now.
2. I'm probably going to grad school(college again, albeit slightly different).
3. I leave grad school in my late 20's. 30's(and the status you're talking about) is right around the corner.
No problem.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Excelsior - 07-21-2011
Quote: (07-21-2011 03:39 PM)Moma Wrote:
Athlone, you keep on quoting American women, American women as if the world revolves around American women. You live in America so what are you going to do? Wank until you move to another country where the women have the qualities that you admire?
I was attempting not to be too general.
I could just as easily have said "Western women", though I honestly believe many european women offer a better return on investment than others.
ROI is my main concern.
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Many of us here are logging on from countries where there are no American women (yet quite similar qualities are being exhibited).
American women are not the only ones with poor ROI.
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According to some, Sweden is even worse for hyper feminism than America.
That says nothing about their Return on Investment.
I won't even get into the cultural differences between Swedish and American gender dynamics. That's a whole new thread.
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So if you don't bother to learn game because you want to save your ego (which I suspect is why you don't want to suffer the 'indignity' of being shunned),
1. Rejection is a way of life for young men. That's not new to me, nor do I particularly fear it.
To embrace it when you do not need to(and there is not a justifiably high ROI involved), however, is just as daft in my mind.
2. Return on Investment-that is what counts. I see no reason to engage in activities without reasonable ROI.
3. I wasn't aware of the fact that cold-approach game was the only form of game out there.
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what happens when you meet a non American women who starts to run the same shyt on you? How will you deal with it? Stuff 100 <insert currency> bills/notes in her mouth when she runs her yap?
What happens when I meet a non-american woman with a poor ROI?
I'll leave her alone. Problem solved. There are always other viable options. Pussy is not a rare commodity.
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By understanding and applying game, you will be able to head off her b.s and still get her to do what you want.
If she's going to be a bitch, then why put the effort in? Is your ROI high enough to justify it? Is she worth it?
Why not just go find a better woman?
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Will you wait until you need steady prescriptions of Viagra or Ciallis to sow your oats?
I don't think I'll need to wait quite that long.
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Like it or not, unless you are not into women, you will have to learn HOW to deal with women. It costs nothing to learn game (save but the price of admission to a few clubs and maybe some dates)
Incorrect. The methodology you are proposing has a significant cost, a low success rate, and is not optimized for every personality.
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and you will need it anyway when your pockets are stacked because women will be running all sorts of game to lighten your load. If you don't know game, they will run it on you.
1. Knowing game and running the form of game you are insisting upon are not necessarily one in the same. Cold approach game is not the only game out there.
2. Don't assume I have no experience with women. My theories are not drawn solely from an academic perspective(although I'll concede that this is my forte). Practical experience is not lacking on this end.
3. What exactly are these magical tricks they'll be running that I'll not be able to foresee without taking the time to run extensive cold approach game right now?
Let's hear some examples.
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It's one thing to read and write about all these concepts and delude oneself that we don't need women but until you can apply them seamlessly as easily as you breathe, you WILL BE vulnerable.
How so?
What can a woman possibly do to me that I'll be unable to prevent with knowledge(since you have already wrongly assumed that I have no experience with females)?
Examples.
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You talk about one not needed to go out and being in the field to not avoid being a simp. You plan on having sex, right? Unless you go out and you know what the market is like from a participatory perspective, how will you know when a woman is not running some sly game on you?
Specifics.
What is this sly game she can run that I'll a) be unable to see/prevent b) will do me in?
You've apparently seen them, so why not put them out into the open now? This being a game forum, I'm sure it'll be beneficial to other readers anyway.
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Do you know how to recognise the different types of gold diggers out there? Do you know that they have different methods of approach? How will you distinguish from a gold digger as opposed to a genuinely nice woman? Can you recognise an emotional vampire?
1. Gold diggers are not very difficult to spot or hear. They have easy tells, and distinguishable habits, even in the way they speak.
I do have experience with them. Groupies too.
You're forgetting that I was a college football player at the Division One level. Even in my relatively low profile, non-BCS league, you can learn a few things.
2. Yes, I know most of their tricks, haunts and motivations(secondary needs vs. primary needs).
3. Gold diggers stand out. A truly good girl who cares not a lick for money is easy to spot amongst them. She is also a pretty rare specimen in contemporary America(perhaps slightly more common in other places).
Actions speak louder than words-they'll point her out for you.
4. I've been with more than one emotional vampire, and seen many more in action.
5. For most of my life, I was a simp, a chump of the highest order. I've seen every pitfall a lower beta could see(short of cuckolding and spousal support), made every mistake in the book of the AFC, and felt every wound a woman can(and usually will) inflict upon such a man if given the chance.
I know the pitfalls of the beta male(and how to avoid them) much better than you give me credit for. I know the things a woman can do to a beta male(and how to avoid them) better than you give me credit for. I can also spot such a male from very far away.
The older me (and, for that matter, the current me) will not be at the mercy of any average "lizard's" games, regardless of her temperament. I've seen them before, I can predict where they will come from, and I can avoid it quite easily. I have the education (both practical and academic) to ensure this in almost any scenario.
You're assuming these things to be far more difficult to realize/understand than they really are.
You're also vastly underestimating me.
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I used to go out and experience total bullshyt from women and it used to drive me insane but the need to bury my fatty in a lizard kept me coming out again and again.
We're different. I tamed that need a long time ago.
I am better for it.
Roissy has said this before-the ability to tame that desire removes much of a female's potential power over you, and can trigger a lot of desire in her. Men who can get sex, and are able to casually dismiss it, have a very powerful weapon at their disposal.
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Even if you are into the 'I want to get married, I'm not a playa/PUA etc, marriage involves game as well, not only in selecting the RIGHT partner but keeping her in line.
I've known that for quite some time.
This is the fatal flaw in your argument-you assume that I cannot possibly be truly knowledgeable without following your chosen modus operendi.
It doesn't take 1000 cold approaches to learn that marriages are not immune to the need for game.
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If you have game with no money, you can come up on paper. I know some cats with game that actually use their women to get up on paper.
I'd rather be alone than sponge off of a lover. That, to me, is failure. I'll not tolerate it from myself.
I won't speak for everyone else.
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If you like having sex with women WITHOUT paying for it directly, then you HAVE to learn game...PERIOD.
1. I have no aversion to escorts. If you're a guy who is as hungry for pussy as you say, then I don't see why you would be either.
Once again-ROI. Who offers a better Return on my Investment?
A. The 9 who enthusiastically boned me in nearly every way possible for $200?
B. The 9 who I ran into at a club, who put on a massive bitch shield, and took me a week and two/three dates to finally lay(or several hours, drinks, and dance session to finally drag back to my apartment)?
2. I would actually contend that I've already learned "game"...if you define game as an understanding of male-female interaction and how to better it.
I don't believe in your particular method, however, and it is not likely I ever will.
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I am curious but if you don't plan on going out in the field, how do you plan on getting punni or are you more the relationship type of cat?
Thanks.
I think you have your answers above.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - blurb - 07-21-2011
Quote: (07-21-2011 10:45 AM)pitt Wrote:
Sometimes i wonder if having millions of dollars and spend all your 20s and 30s after money will be really worth it. Put it this way, imagine that some of us on here plan to live in south america or caribbean for the rest of our lives, wont 60k per year be just ok and give us that great lifestyle? In those countries, if you want to impress women, all you need is be driving a nice car, you dont really need that much for the nice car, the dressing, you can always run to the states for cheap clothes every now and then, your luxury car will give you the image that you have a nice lifestyle, so when you reach your late 40´s, this under 25 chicks will be on your case and wanting to fuck you just because you drive that nice luxury car.
I really need to figure out how much i need, i think if i hit 500k before 35, should be enough just to travel around the world and never have to worry about working again.
Let me throw a monkey wrench into your equation which I believe that everyone on this forum and elsewhere who have similar plans are forgetting!
Let's say that you are 18-years-old. This is a hypothetical example. For the sake of simplicity, let's say you want to move to your desired country at the age of 48. This is a difference of 30 years. 30 years, 20 years, hell, even 10 years is a long time for something to happen.
How do you know that, in 30 years, these countries will not fully develop and industrialize so that the cost of living rises upward similar to the levels of western countries?
Yes, these countries may be "poor" or "cheap" or whatever you want to call it, but will they always stay poor and/or cheap? Young guys here who plan on living out their lives in a certain "poor" country forget to take into account if the country industrializes and experiences economic growth, then their easy 60k per year lifestyle will crumble.
Take post-WWII Japan, for instance. It was broken, defeated, and its economy in disrepair. But, by the 1980s its economy was booming, and it became a worldwide economic powerhouse. 60k per year is a laughable pity amount in any large Japanese city (Tokyo, Kyoto).
1985 - 1945 = 40 years. If you factor in the fact that the whole country had two atomic bombs dropped on it and had to first rebuild itself, then the number would have been even lower, possibly right around 30 or 35 years, just at the time someone (like you) might have wanted to move there.
Conclusion: There's no guarantee that these countries will stay the same 10, 20, or 30 years down the road.
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Moma - 07-21-2011
Athlone, my question to you based on what you asked is very simple then.
What do you suggest for a young man (let's say 21 years old, who DOES NOT want to wait until he is 30 when he can afford to shell out 200 bucks a pop for whores, escorts and prostitutes?
This young man wants sex with different woman right now and doesn't want to pay for it DIRECTLY.
What would your advice to him be?
M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?) - Excelsior - 07-21-2011
Quote: (07-21-2011 09:26 PM)blurb Wrote:
How do you know that, in 30 years, these countries will not fully develop and industrialize so that the cost of living rises upward similar to the levels of western countries?
You have a good point-we don't know that.
We do know a few things, however.
Not every country will experience such a rise. Countries can jump from Third World to First World, with similar cost increases. You cited Japan-I'd also include South Korea and Singapore in that equation.
In the grand scheme of things, however, such dramatic increases are rare. It is not easy to produce the type of mass industrialization and firm economic growth that one saw in parts of East Asia during the latter half of the 20th century. Quite a few factors go into it and without a perfect storm of positive factors to work with(cultural, economic, political, etc), it often remains elusive.
A couple of our favored nations will certainly do this. I would contend that Brazil, if it hasn't already, is primed for a rise-the nation isn't as cheap as it once was, and it will probably only advance further in coming decades. It is most likely that the majority of other nations, however, will not. A good number of our chosen retirement lands of the future will likely remain solid options, failing to rise and match the American cost of living.
You must also keep in mind, however, that as great nations rise, many also fall. For every Japan and Singapore, there is an Argentina and a Portugal.
Even if one or two unexpected players rise rapidly, it is likely that a couple others will fall.
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Take post-WWII Japan, for instance. It was broken, defeated, and its economy in disrepair. But, by the 1980s its economy was booming, and it became a worldwide economic powerhouse. 60k per year is a laughable pity amount in any large Japanese city (Tokyo, Kyoto).
1985 - 1945 = 40 years. If you factor in the fact that the whole country had two atomic bombs dropped on it and had to first rebuild itself, then the number would have been even lower, possibly right around 30 or 35 years, just at the time someone (like you) might have wanted to move there.
I must also add this: Japan is a unique case.
They possess a unique level of cultural cohesion and discipline, and are thus able to get away with some things that other nations cannot. This is how they were able to rise in the wake of WW2 and build a superpower on a land with virtually no natural resources. Their culture is their greatest asset.
Though it isn't impossible, their rise is not likely to be easily replicated by anyone else.